While it’s hard to say that one party is completely at fault here, this definitely isn’t a good look for the airline, and it feels like this level of escalation only happens in the United States (thanks to PYOK for flagging this).
Continue reading: United Kicks Off Man For Confronting Rude Off-Duty Employee On Plane
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United should apologize and punish that employee with a huge ego. They should also investigate the gate agents who made this dumb decision.
Another case of a power-tripping airline employee is what it appears to be.
We'll need to wait for a full investigation before rushing to judgment.*
*No, we don't, we see what happened, I'm just saying that to get it out of the way before others post such a "measured" response "asking for calm."
Hey this is UA coming a long way from dragging folks down an aisle and bloodying them
United should punish the crew who decided to offload this passenger too.
A simple test would be, had it not been an employee should
1) The working crew listen to both sides stories instead of just from their colleague?
2) Neither or both be removed from the aircraft and not just the non-employee.
Nepotism is real.
They probably forgot who David Dao is.
As Ben said, this highly depends on how the interaction went. However if he really was removed for "foul language" this sounds unreasonable. If he however was removed because he was shouting at her, was instructed by the crew to stop doing so and continued, this would be another case. I'm not saying this happened, but without knowing all the facts I don't want to assert blame.
Unfortunately given the dynamics of the world we live in, the correct course of action was to confront the off-duty employee after the flight.
I have no doubt he's in the right, but the world rarely does people justice. This is classic United service, for all the glazing people have done for them in the past few years, United staff are consistently some of the nastiest, not all of them, but the worst of them are by far much worse than AA or DL's.
The optimal path was to cover his bottom line by taking the flight, confront the rude employee afterwards, so that they don't need to worry about the flight logistics.
I hope they receive some compensation and an apology from United, not a good look.
Sick and tired of US airline employees getting away with a power trip, and equally sick and tired of passengers and bloggers and influencers not doing enough to change it.
Whatever happened to kindness, tolerance, and acceptance in this world...
I still believe in the proverb "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you"
As you say - only in the US.
At my (European) airline - which is also very unionised - if I was the off duty crew member I would 100% be sat down for a chat with my manager.
When you are wearing the uniform it doesn't matter whether you are on or off duty - you are obviously associated by the public with the airline and the brand. Most European contracts have a disciplinary clause along the lines of 'bringing the company into disrepute' and this is exactly what we would be done for in this circumstance.
If an off duty employee was travelling on staff tickets and was rude to a customer or staff, they will likely face HR and have their concessions suspended if not more. It’s true that on the ground US carriers’s staff make a situation worse and believe offloading is the only way forward.
What is happening to human relationships in this day and age , it’s such a sad decline
Agree. All the United glazing feels borderline like sponsored content. If you've ever lived in a captive United hub, you know how mean their employees can be (unless it's for a staged PR event).
Understand them removing an element that might start more verbal incidents in the air. But in that case logic would dictate to remove the off duty staff and not a couple - I assume the hearing impaired woman wouldn't want to continue alone without the husband (maybe she would). Would certainly be the case on any non-US carrier.
The main problem is some stupid meatbag that records this and puts it online for all to form an opinion about, without knowing all the facts. Possibly affecting someones reputation.
Reputation over character, where one has to care about how others view them to make themselves look superior.
“Once onboard the plane, the off-duty employee was seated behind the couple (in Economy Plus)…”
And after the man and his wife left the plane, the off duty flight attendant was upgraded to United first.*
*No, of course we don’t *know* this, except for the fact that it would be in keeping with United Airlines employees’ behavior.
While I find these stories interesting I think if we're talking about united removing people from planes this is a much bigger story : https://simpleflying.com/united-airlines-allegedly-bans-faa-safety-inspector-life-raising-safety-concerns/
Number one we do not know what the Interaction is so we can't say whether removing this man from the flight was justified. Number two, going against a crew member is not going to work out for yourself. He would have been much better to chalk it up to the world is full of assholes and given the situation this asshole isn't worth dealing with.
If he was abusive, threatening or intimidatory then he should be removed from the flight. It is in United’s contract of carriage. The fact that he’s refusing to leave the aircraft until the captain comes and talks to him is already breaking the law and shows that he may not follow crew member instructions in flight… a safety risk. So I’m sure the lawsuit is not going to go well… if he was smart he should have behaved impeccably on the video and followed all instructions.
For anyone wondering, if the “off duty” flight attendant is actually dead heading then they aren’t “off duty” they are just not working the flight and their word is definitely going to be taken as strongly as a anyone else being paid to be there (they are paid for deadheading). No one here has any clue if they are dead heading or flying standby, you’re all just making assumptions based on nothing.
Anyone who gets on a plane and starts loudly demanding an apology from another passenger for a perceived slight that happened in the boarding area, and who won't shut up and just let . . . it . . . go should be removed. It doesn't matter if it involves an employee or not.
There are a couple of things that stick out to me in the video that make me believe that the passenger's account is completely truthful. I definitely lean towards believing that it was United that was very much in the wrong here. First, the claim of "foul language" did not seem to be brought into the conversation as a reason for removal until after the hearing impaired women spoke and it became abundantly clear to the staff that she is indeed hearing impaired. Also, when the employee first mentioned the foul language in this video there was a genuine expression of disbelief on the man's face and an appropriate defense on his part. At that same time, a passenger across the aisle intercedes and when I listen very carefully I believe that I can hear a male voice say something along the lines of 'there was no use of foul language.' This both suggests to me that this was the first mention of foul language (thus the original reason given was not this) and that the passengers who overheard the interaction seemingly defended the passenger when this claim was voiced. You can see the man nodding his head is the unseen passenger speaks which suggests to me that the other passenger was validating the man in the video.
While it is only my opinion, it felt to me like the employee was digging for another reason to dig into the decision to remove these passengers after she realized that this man's claim about his wife being disabled and mistreated by the other employee looked more likely to be true. I feel like the foul language claim was just a desperate attempt to defend a bad decision and quite possibly just entirely made up.
I also notice that none of the visible passengers seem to be getting angry with this man. They aren't yelling at him to get off. Another passenger even agreed to film for him. This all suggests that these passengers did not seem to feel that this man was out of order and/or in the wrong.
I try to treat airline employees like I do the police—bite my tongue and avoid a dispute. Most FAs are reasonably pleasant, but it seems that once they switch into “respect my authoritah” mode they don’t switch back. I know that there is a huge power imbalance, and I know that both groups will always take each other’s side in a disagreement with an outsider regardless of the merits of the outsider’s position.
What a sad state to be in, having paid top dollars which pays the very employees who removed him. We are just short of getting handcuffed and mouth taped before boarding. That could be the unions next request to the airline.
The whole concept of "demanding an apology" is absurd. An apology is an expression of regret/remorse. What's its value if not offered freely?
Turn the other cheek. Speak to someone after the end of the flight. Escalate online later, in downtime. But confronting a person verbally on an airplane, regardless of who it is, regardless of the merits of the complaint, is tactically a loser move.
I'd be just as mad as this guy but I'd enjoy my revenge cold. Note the seat number of the off-duty employee, sit down, shut up. Later, invest time in my revenge. Or come to my senses and invest that energy making spouse happy.
"You should've behaved differently! Say sorry!" is for parents and children.
Well , I am mostly deaf , and also disabled , and when impatient loud-mouths criticize me , I laugh and have a champagne ; then I secretly give them the finer .
Exactly , Bort . I smile with politeness and then secretly give them the finger . Why make it a big deal ?
Well , SR , the sad state is that we pay top dollar in the first place , for cheap dollar service by imbeciles .
"once they switch into “respect my authoritah”...
You get totes props for the Cartman reference.
"Curious: what law is it breaking?"
It's not breaking any law. And also...
"So I’m sure the lawsuit is not going to go well…"
I'm not even sure where the subject of lawsuits was raised in the piece.
My wife and I have sworn off flying united. They are a racist and rude bunch of people working those planes. Hope they go bankrupt. Oh ya, they did before….
I do agree with the comments that note this kind of attitude is more common with United FA. They frequently are unfriendly and have attitude, and it’s why I try to avoid them even as a 1K. . Its not the union aspect imo though… it’s where they pull their labor from. Just look at their hubs, and the culture of those cities.
AA - Dallas / Phoenix / Miami
DL - Atlanta / Salt Lake / JFK
UA - Chicago / Newark / Denver / San Fran (none of UA are exactly known for their warm hospitality)
This has been my working hypothesis for a while and I continue to think it holds.
Well hello Re-dreamer, fancy seeing you here Plain Jane. You made a wild allegation about me, remember? So, troll, prove your claim or crawl back into your rat infested trailer, yes?
The United captain completely failed in his/her leadership role.
Risk to flight? Nope. Let’s get on with the flight.
This kind of ego nonsense seems to happen in the USA. Perhaps the crews fearful of the consequences if they tried it in Europe?
Most of these flight attendants are bitter, scorned women in need of a good man and family. Any woman interested in raising a family, fulfilling domestic duties, partnering with a spouse, keeping a clean and cozy home, etc certainly does not seek to become a flight attendant. So most of these women are real monsters. Girl power!
Given that everyone else in the cabin is siding with the passenger, it’s pretty obvious that didn’t happen.
Given that everyone else in the cabin is siding with the passenger, it’s pretty obvious that didn’t happen.
Given that everyone else in the cabin is siding with the passenger, it’s pretty obvious that didn’t happen.
Long time ago when I was flying enough to be top tier in multiple airlines, I was continually frustrated with UA attendants. Even compared to LH prison wardens they used on board as FAs.
The last straw was on a red eye transcontinental when the FA gave me a blanket that was not in its plastic cover but moreover looked like it had been on the floor and trampled on. She had some in a cover and asked her to switch mine to a covered one.
She completely ignored me while I was sitting there asking her (politely) with my hand out with the used blanket.
When she came later with the drinks, I took out a big wad of all the 1k complimentary drink coupons I had in my bag, handed it to her and said serve free drinks to everybody until each one was used because I didn't need them anymore. She gave me a dirty look but the cabin was happy.
That was my last UA flight.
Part of the problem was that we didn’t see the interaction, so we don’t know what happened exactly. The man sounds entitled, but I know how hard it is to be with someone who is hearing impaired, as I’m partially deaf myself and always regret that my partner has problems communicating with me. Perhaps the flight attendant didn’t excuse herself as she should have. My guess is that the man was extremely rude when she didn’t. The tone of one’s voice is incredibly important in situations like this.
not aero with yet another fantasy invisible sighting calling others troll instead of looking at the troll in the mirror?
Julie darlink, surely you are blatantly aware of the fact that none of us can get within a nautical mile of a mirror, you monopolise all of them yourself …. Xxxx
I have been 1K for more than 10 years and I had my fair share of unpleasant experience with some rude UA FAs. I have to say that some of them are very friendly and professional, sadly not most of them. There are bad apples in every profession and every company. But UA has a higher then average number of unprofessional FAs mistreating paying customers.
I think United left out the second half of their motto. It should have read: "Good Leads The Way, But We Wouldn't Know".
I guess they didn't learn from the Dr Chong incident. Regardless, I'm sure the guy had it coming. Don't confront the owner of the plane!
If this happened in Canada, the man could file a human rights complaint against United for the way his wife with a disability was treated.. It would be investicated by the human rights comission and If they are found at fault it's $$$. Airlines that fly from here know this all too well.
And in comes aero’s guest account user for reply…
There certainly are some notable individuals that love fake accounts, awful comebacks, and trolling here — Aero guest/member leads the pack
Statement from UA says the pax remained on the flight. Article might need an update, as Gary updated his article.
Sometimes it is best to ignore the situation and move on rather than prove you are right, espcially like this where a confrontation can happen. Sure, you may want an apology, but is it worth it. Also, I want to comment about posing a risk to the flight. In this situation, I do not think this was the case, but in other situations there is a fine line between being rude and being rude to the extent of posing a risk. Agree it does not look good for the airline.
We need to allow foreign carriers to set up shop. Those big 3 or 4 US carriers and their union protected carrier employees acting like they are an extension of ICE and hide under one word starting with T only to justify power trips. It becomes just exhausting how many they offload. At same time anybody fighting on a plane should personally be liable financially for any delay compensation.
Who flies United.... Apparently many many people given the profit it is making.
This rude employee of United should be FIRED!! No pension, benefits NOTHING!!! I am a disabled Veteran, I stand with the husband, nobody would have to question me about what was said AND how it was said cause everyone on that plane would have heard every word I said & ol Rudy would've been looking for the quickest way to the luggage dept.
An off duty employee no less. I’m retired airline staff, not United, and believe me, it’s the last thing our company wants us to do,especially in uniform. I rarely saw it as an agent, but believe me, if I did, I’d take action.
By that logic anyone who insults a passenger in the boarding area shouldn't be allowed on the flight. They should have kicked the dead heading fa off
Air travel in the US has become such a shit show. From being yelled at by TSA to power-tripped gate agents and entitled off-duty staff. Avoid!
The Chinese Bot which uses the Julie login, requires a AI program rewrite. Clearly the Chinese Bot cannot tell the difference between a user who logs in legitimately and the user who does not do so.
Some of us who take the trouble to register and login from time to time are completely wasting out time it seems. As Ben is allowing the Chinese Bots to multiply on his website, what is the point of the registration process?
Do get a grip Ben, before all of your website sponsors pull the plug on your fast becoming fake enterprise, yes?
The Chinese Bot which uses the likes of the ‘Julie’, ‘Eskimo’, 1990, ‘The_Redeemer’, etc, etc, logins, requires a AI program rewrite. Clearly the Chinese Bot, is tolerated by Ben, because it is generating clicks.
Some of us who take the trouble to register and login from time to time are completely wasting out time it seems. As Ben is allowing the Chinese Bots to multiply on his website, therefore, what is the point of the registration process?
Do get a grip Ben, before all of your website sponsors pull the plug on your fast becoming fake enterprise, yes?
Agreed, Ben is producing more and more click-bait articles to allow the Chinese Bots to generate and improve his clicks tally.
Ahh, you mean like the racial slurs you and others made about Gayle King or anytime it is a post about a minority especially someone black even those with legitimate gripes?
No surprise here. This follows the lead of the US leadership. Which also explains your comment about "...shows the culture of many US airlines ..."
Which is why I stopped flying American Airlines (Texas culture).
More to come.
I used to be a big fan of the US and spent many vacations there. However the situation has changed so dramatically that I refuse to put a foot in this country anymore. Customers are treated like shit. Starting at immigration, you come to spend your money but are treated like a criminal. Then Hotels, See Ben‘s post on a recent hotel stay, where you don’t get a good service anymore, and this at highest rates. And airlines are pathetic, I experienced similar situations as described in the article. Conclusion: sadly I will not travel to the US but visit countries where I am welcome. It is a pity as there are many positive aspects, but the negativ ones are too big.
Hopefully one day airlines (and also hotels) will understand there is a limit….
This is another example of a flight captain absolutely unable to do his job properly just enjoying his "powers" protecting a rude off-duty flight attendant.
It's unbelievable this pax should be removed. No matter how the previous conversation was - a passenger explaining the situation so calmly and on the topic is hardly a risk to that fligiht.
I wish United would be a responsible airline and fire both the captain and the off-duty flight attendant to get a grip on these unnecessary escalations.
I came 15 years ago from Switzerland for career opportunity. Best decision ever....
All airline employees traveling on their employee passes know it is a privilege. Most have enough common sense to know to sit and not make a commotion when traveling, the employee traveling on a pass should be the one reprimanded over this and the passenger should get an apology from the airline and the employee that caused it all. And by the way I am an airline employee of 45yrs..
Will keep this interaction in mind next time I have to book a flight and it won't be with United.
I’m sure the FA knew the exact phrase to use to vilify this man so that he would be labeled as a safety risk.
That's a dumb statement. You're sure the guy had it coming? Why is that? Also, an off duty crew member does not own the plane.
United, where the customer is always wrong.
And this interaction is right on brand. My employee stereotypes for US airlines unfortunately hold true:
Delta FAs are genuinely friendly or, at worst, indifferent.
American FAs are polite to your face and rude behind your back.
United FAs are rude to your face.
Over the years I have been a very loyal United airlines customer. Over the past 2 years I have noticed a degradation of professionalism with gate agents and flight crews. It is unfortunate because the vast majority do not fit this drop in performance. The pilot almost has no choice but to back the crew simply because it her word against the passenger/customer’s. I hope the customers lawyer up and sue United for enough money they never have to fly commercial again.
Too little information and far too many assumptions here to support judgement for either party. I am hearing impaired and I need to ask people to repeat themselves fairly often. That sometimes generates hostility. It appears to be an overreaction by both parties. Why "confront" someone after the fact? The US seems to be defaulting to a premise that anyone who does something I don't like should automatically be fired and their employer sued.