The past several weeks have possibly been the strangest period I’ve ever seen in the airline industry. A couple of weeks ago, we learned how United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby secretly proposed to President Trump the concept of merging with American Airlines. This is based on an airline ”trade deficit” argument (that by creating one…
Continue reading: United CEO Scott Kirby Publicly Makes (Bizarre) Case For Buying American
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I won't copy and paste my comment from another site but Kirby just seems deranged and obsessed with his AA vendetta at this point.
He failed to push AA out of ORD like he promised United employees nearly 10 years ago now
What if we swap out “American” with “JetBlue”? I feel like in that case, this argument makes a lot of sense
"And this would be a great U.S. airline that is the best, whether you’re a customer from Chicago, Des Moines or Dubai." I literally laughed out loud. Yeah, screw Emirates First in future, United is flying Polaris on the route now!
Quite honestly the guy sounds deranged.
So this large ego , with his large amount of free millions , is strutting about ?
No one cares .
Is Kirby 'bizarre' or is it the click baiters who leach off every aspect of his admittedly frequent and honest interviews? He simply is more transparent than the vast majority of CEOs, and it's entertaining to see some airline enthusiasts' overreactions to it. No other airline executive, with the possible exception of Michael O'Leary, has been nearly as successful over the last decade. Perhaps there is a method to his 'madness'.
Kirby desperately wants to be seen as the smartest person in the room and remain the center of attention.
He didn't need to add on to the AA merger attempt saga other than Kirby's own need to validate his own strategic failures.
I read it like a pep rally speech to UA employees, and in that context, it makes sense to me. All he's doing is saying UA is awesome, and if they combined with AA, they'd be able to fix AA because AA sucks. It's really just a lengthy version of Beat Valley, Go Bayside!
Kirby needs to check in with a neurologist, because he seems to be very very not okay at this point.
@Tim Dunn
Success is making Kirby arogant day by day. He should stop behaving like a Karen. He has forgotten that he still has to beat Delta to become number 1.
Alternative thought - if we get a big recession, Kirby maybe just wants the go-ahead to sweep up American. After the GFC, we had three major mergers (DL/Northwest, AA/US, UA/CO); this could be Kirby’s way to set precedence. He’s still deluded, but not as much as you’d think.
When you make a troubled JetBlue seem like an afterthought it probably has an impact on price. The real question is whether Kirby will offer B6 shareholders anything beyond assuming B6’s debt that is remotely meaningful.
Breaking news from Bloomberg TV: ‘United CEO says pursuits of talks with American has ended’
The KDS (Kirby Derangement Sydrome) is strong in Ben (and the ever-bleating @TravelinPenis). What's next?
A post for when Kirby forgets to wash his hands?
A post for when Kirby tips only $1 instead of $2?
A post for when Kirby forgets to wear a neck tie and everybody else is?
To answer your question, Rebel. Scott Kirby is just bizarre and deranged at this point.
He has definitely done some amazing things with United, no doubt, but let's withhold actual judgement until United is paying their employees similar rates as AA and DL before we claim him to be the most successful CEO over the last decade.
United really just needed ANY CEO to realize that United was weak domestically and needed to change that. Absolute props should be given to Kirby for realizing that and shoring up a big UA weakness, but Kirby also stands in contrast to the absolute network stupidity and ignorance of Smizek so it wasn't the toughest thing for anyone to realize.
Keep in mind many of the current "LOPA" issues that most sites lambast AA for? Those were Scott Kirby decisions:
1. The 788 J configuration -- a decision he and Patrick Quayle made
2. Oasis? That was Kirby though not the removal of IFE
3. Removing F seats on the US A319 at merger? Kirby
"[Foreign airlines] fly about 65% of the long haul seats into our country even though only 40% of the customers are foreign citizens"
Yes, that is market evidence that even many US customers consider foreign airlines to provide better service.
Even after all those business customers forced to fly US airlines because they work for US companies with corporate travel agreements with the US3.
I suppose he could argue that that is purely due to AA flight attendants providing bad service, and I guess he's not completely off target on that !
There are some things
You can't cover up with lipstick and powder
Thought I heard you mention my name
Can't you talk any louder?
Don't come any closer, don't come any nearer
My vision of you can't come any clearer
Oh, I just wanna hear girls talk
Nocella, Gupta, Quayle et al (even Raja) followed Kirby to UA. Munoz taught Kirby how to lead vice manage people. They are starting to unlock the potential of the UA network. Kirby gives lots of honest interviews and the click baiters LOVE it. The enthusiasts (KDS) take things out of context and overreact.
Hey Ben, the ad load and the multiple banners im the header footer making the site hard to read on mobile - essentially only half the available screen space displays the article. I recognize you can click “x” to remove several of the banners, but oftentimes my fat fingers just end up clicking on the ad or to the other content.
Think you can look into this? I’m happy to display ads on the site to support you (think I’ve been a reader here for 15 years), but the UX experience has been a real bear as of late. Thanks!
I flew SFO-BUR yesterday on a flight that ran about an hour late on a 27 year old plane that had previously flown for United's "Ted" subsidiary and still had many original interior finishes to show for it.
Maybe focus on that first, Scott?
Also: Kirby's claim that a merger would "revitalize U.S. manufacturing" is total fiction. United and American may order the same number of planes regardless of the livery; consolidation doesn't magically create demand. His Boeing posturing is equally hollow---the 787 is full of outsourced foreign value, while Airbus is packed with American content.
His "trade deficit" narrative: if he wants to invent metrics, he should at least be honest about the math: calculate long-haul capacity strictly by ASMs and exclude the code-shares he profits from. Imagine the outcry if British Airways applied that same protectionist logic to every carrier entering the UK.
The constant "greatest" branding is becoming nauseating. Greatness is earned by working on it, but by declaring at every possible opportunity.
They didn't "Follow" Kirby to UA, Nocella did. The others had no future at AA -- especially Quayle -- also evidenced that he's not been given any incremental responsibility since getting to UA aside from a job title change.
You really do work in United IR.
"Kirby gives lots of honest interviews and the click baiters LOVE it. The enthusiasts (KDS) take things out of context and overreact."
Could you sound any more MAGA? We're supposed to just ignore half of what the CEO of a Fortune 100 company says because he doesn't know how to filter his own comments?
" Munoz taught Kirby how to lead vice manage people."
And please... United was a dying vine under Munoz before Kirby got there. People forget that the only reason Munoz has a rosy past after retiring was because of Kirby. Munoz hired people that Kirby almost immediately fired.
I'm sorry, he is just such a creep. He desperately needs some therapy to get over his American Derangement Syndrome, it's been almost a decade. Isom and Parker must be checking bushes outside their houses at night because at this point I wouldn't be surprised to find him stalking them there.
"And please... United was a dying vine under Munoz before Kirby got there."
I agree because Levy & BCG consultant were the airline braintrust. You're making his case. Kirby going from AA to UA might be the most consequential airline event since consolidation, but Munoz changed a toxic culture.
PQ was a MD at AA. In ten years at UA: VP Int'l, VP/SVP Int'l & Alliances, SVP Global & Alliances, and if Gupta and he had no future at AA then that is all you need to know about AA's dysfunction.
If he was hiding in Parker's bushes, he had bigger problems than being seen. Like, say, the homeowner's apparent inability to distinguish a bush from a garage door.
That, and possibly a good ad blocker on your home router. However, Brave is hard to beat for reducing bs.
"In ten years at UA: VP Int'l, VP/SVP Int'l & Alliances, SVP Global & Alliances, and if Gupta and he had no future at AA then that is all you need to know about AA's dysfunction."
Job title change. No change in responsibility. You're making my point.
And yes, if you look at the examples of what Quayle left at AA LOPA, you're right. He had no future at AA. Leaving the 788 as it was, the AA A319 LOPA then the change to US A319 LOPA, the missteps of Oasis before Kodiak -- All Quayle's team.
Gupta is a different variable. Quayle left because he had to. Gupta did not. Quayle hasn't been career broadened at UA, Gupta's leadership and acumen has been recognized and his experience broadened to be considered for future leadership.
Glad Kirby has time to troll American, though I'd much rather he spent time getting United flights to depart on time.
I'm doubtful of your hypothesis, though I see how you got there. As our beloved blog operator informed us in another post, Kirby's been banned from Blackjack in casinos, a feat which, I'm told, generally requires having cleared the 21-year age threshold.
"Job title change. No change in responsibility."
100% incorrect, but you knew that. As for missteps, soldiers follow orders, and the buck stops with Parker, obviously. Gotta pay for those buybacks somehow, so not much left over for LOPA enhancements. He never liked everybody saying Kirby was the brains of the operation.
Seriously, this. If anyone can't see that this is the goal, they are just thinking in the aspect of what makes "sense". But much like in sports, this is a rah-rah go team go, and kind of a little bit of a "come at me, bro" type of attitude. It's not the most articulate or Harvard business approach, but it's just being kind of who he is.
And it's jockeying for whatever position he can make, since he knows, just like everyone else, that there is blood in the water.
OMAAT may want to have a suggestion email account for new and different posts.
Hey there, I’ve been there - and this is how I went around this (requires Chrome and some manual labour):
- Open an article
- Click on . . . button
- Selec “turn on reading mode”
- All text in one go, no ads.
- Repeat (works in every website, except in Simply Flying, where it removes the first paragraph from the article - for some reason ♂️)
The problem I see is that the US has the three largest airlines in the world already.
Suggesting that we make one that nearly double the size of the next largest one that would be superior to what already exists is disingenuous in the extreme.
Airline travel for economy fliers is already commoditized.
Want to be better? Give us three inches more of legroom.
Cut costs on stupid things like free movies or Wifi.
That 65% of inbound foreign travel is on foreign carriers is because people found better flights than what is on offer. I would also note that the number of American airlines that fly international is dwarfed by the numbers of foreign carriers that fly to the US.
The math just works that way. This narrative ignores the alliances that airlines have created to offer their customers more options while keeping them in th e"family". This is how I flew BA while booking through Alaska
No doubt this would be a powerhouse of an airline.
I am enjoying flying United more out of ORD, however the arrogance of Kirby is starting to make me want to book on other carriers. He is quite obnoxious.
Kirby should stop making bluesky press statements, quit rimming the Trump administration, and get back to his job of making United a better & more profitable premium carrier.
Companies well on their way to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae status becoming too big to fail.
I really don’t think we need this Boeing Airbus intransigence in the airline industry as well.
When you see the works "bizarre" and "unprecedented" you know that the pres is involved in making a HUGE merger of these airlines.
Kirby is a known gambler, so he'll be rolling the dice along with help from the pres, his family and son in law with Arabian money.
Just like the Paramount takeover.
I won't copy and paste my comment from another site but Kirby just seems deranged and obsessed with his AA vendetta at this point.
He failed to push AA out of ORD like he promised United employees nearly 10 years ago now
"And this would be a great U.S. airline that is the best, whether you’re a customer from Chicago, Des Moines or Dubai." I literally laughed out loud. Yeah, screw Emirates First in future, United is flying Polaris on the route now!
Quite honestly the guy sounds deranged.
What if we swap out “American” with “JetBlue”? I feel like in that case, this argument makes a lot of sense
So this large ego , with his large amount of free millions , is strutting about ?
No one cares .
Is Kirby 'bizarre' or is it the click baiters who leach off every aspect of his admittedly frequent and honest interviews? He simply is more transparent than the vast majority of CEOs, and it's entertaining to see some airline enthusiasts' overreactions to it. No other airline executive, with the possible exception of Michael O'Leary, has been nearly as successful over the last decade. Perhaps there is a method to his 'madness'.
Kirby desperately wants to be seen as the smartest person in the room and remain the center of attention.
He didn't need to add on to the AA merger attempt saga other than Kirby's own need to validate his own strategic failures.
@Tim Dunn
Success is making Kirby arogant day by day. He should stop behaving like a Karen. He has forgotten that he still has to beat Delta to become number 1.
To answer your question, Rebel. Scott Kirby is just bizarre and deranged at this point.
He has definitely done some amazing things with United, no doubt, but let's withhold actual judgement until United is paying their employees similar rates as AA and DL before we claim him to be the most successful CEO over the last decade.
United really just needed ANY CEO to realize that United was weak domestically and needed to change that. Absolute props should be given to Kirby for realizing that and shoring up a big UA weakness, but Kirby also stands in contrast to the absolute network stupidity and ignorance of Smizek so it wasn't the toughest thing for anyone to realize.
Keep in mind many of the current "LOPA" issues that most sites lambast AA for? Those were Scott Kirby decisions:
1. The 788 J configuration -- a decision he and Patrick Quayle made
2. Oasis? That was Kirby though not the removal of IFE
3. Removing F seats on the US A319 at merger? Kirby
I read it like a pep rally speech to UA employees, and in that context, it makes sense to me. All he's doing is saying UA is awesome, and if they combined with AA, they'd be able to fix AA because AA sucks. It's really just a lengthy version of Beat Valley, Go Bayside!
Kirby needs to check in with a neurologist, because he seems to be very very not okay at this point.
Alternative thought - if we get a big recession, Kirby maybe just wants the go-ahead to sweep up American. After the GFC, we had three major mergers (DL/Northwest, AA/US, UA/CO); this could be Kirby’s way to set precedence. He’s still deluded, but not as much as you’d think.
When you make a troubled JetBlue seem like an afterthought it probably has an impact on price. The real question is whether Kirby will offer B6 shareholders anything beyond assuming B6’s debt that is remotely meaningful.
Breaking news from Bloomberg TV: ‘United CEO says pursuits of talks with American has ended’
The KDS (Kirby Derangement Sydrome) is strong in Ben (and the ever-bleating @TravelinPenis). What's next?
A post for when Kirby forgets to wash his hands?
A post for when Kirby tips only $1 instead of $2?
A post for when Kirby forgets to wear a neck tie and everybody else is?
Kirby is the leader the rest of the Big 4 wish they had.
Could Tim Dunn and Scott Kirby be the same person?
"[Foreign airlines] fly about 65% of the long haul seats into our country even though only 40% of the customers are foreign citizens"
Yes, that is market evidence that even many US customers consider foreign airlines to provide better service.
Even after all those business customers forced to fly US airlines because they work for US companies with corporate travel agreements with the US3.
I suppose he could argue that that is purely due to AA flight attendants providing bad service, and I guess he's not completely off target on that !
There are some things
You can't cover up with lipstick and powder
Thought I heard you mention my name
Can't you talk any louder?
Don't come any closer, don't come any nearer
My vision of you can't come any clearer
Oh, I just wanna hear girls talk
The first fallacy to his argument is that United is "better". It isn't. I fly out of ABQ so 95% of my travel requires a connection each way, so 4 flights. I have yet to fly on United when at there isn't a delay or cancelation on at least one of those flights. Not once! A friend who came to visit me, had delays and cancelations on ALL of his flights, arriving here a day late, and also arriving home 4 hours late. And to add insult to injury what did United offer him a measly $100 travel voucher, which they never did actually provide. If Kirby is so delusional that he thinks he's running a superior airline, United has bigger problems than they realize.