A few weeks ago United Airlines management threatened to abandon JFK, unless the airline was granted permanent slots at the airport. The airline is following through on this threat, and will be pulling out of JFK in the coming weeks.
Continue reading: United Airlines Ending All JFK Flights… Again
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
United actually didn't benefit from the "slot swap." Though perhaps advertised as one, they were structured as two independent slot for cash transactions, and by the time the deal was actually consummated, the FAA had removed slot restrictions at EWR so the "slot swap" ended up just being UA selling their JFK slots to DL.
Is united generating a revenue stream from the leasing arrangement with Delta? When does the Delta - United JFK lease agreement end?
Lets not forget that even pre pandemic when EWR was slot constrained UA never actually used all the permanent slots it owned. The hypocrisy is rife with this one
What will happen to all those that have flights booked to LAX or SFO? I have flights booked to SFO October 30th for 4 people. What is Uniteds plan to help passengers or offer them alternative flight pland
Given the regularity, severity, and pervasiveness of delays at JFK on even a good-weather day, I don't think anybody could reasonably suggest the airport is capable of accommodating MORE flights...
I'm also skeptical of the commercial rationale for serving JFK. JetBlue, American, and Delta all have feed there, whereas United has none. They're at a major competitive disadvantage. Yes Queens, Brooklyn, and Long Island are large, and those passengers aren't likely to schlep to Newark. But United is serving them somewhat through LGA. Seems to me would make more sense to double down on EWR.
UA screwed the pooch when they moved out of JFK the first time. EWR may work for most, but international connections JFK still the way to go.
United had an entire TERMINAL at JFK of their own for several decades. They downsized and downsized into irrelevance.
They have no one to blame but themselves, and I for one have zero sympathy for this poorly managed operation.
They pushed Southwest and Frontier out of Newark. They should just stay there .
Untied — we long ago gave up on flying the unfriendly skies. May they enjoy their Newark hub forever.
Actually the DOJ blocked the EWR-UA part of the slot swap because UA already had more than 70% of EWR slots. The JFK-DL part went through and it was later that the FAA removed EWR slot controls because of UA’s underutilization
UA has screwed up its slot strategies in NYC
Kirby has done great things at UA, but he was the chief architect behind pushing UA out of JFK when he was at AA. He knows.
In the eyes of many, EWR will never have the cache of JFK. It's like how LGW is viewed in comparison to LHR.
JFK was a ghost town for most of the day until B6 came along. There was no DL hub there (DL was purely ATL on a grand scale back then), it was all more of a LAX type focus and international set up. Either UA or AA could have owned JFK....oh well.
Even though I dislike DL. No one can deny their airport game. No patching up. Knock down and rebuild. Perhaps UA needs to rethink EWR on a GRAND scale.
United service to customers is already piss poor (see complaints against United, Facebook group) They threatened to call the police on me when I requested a refund for my checked luggage fee since they lost it) Maybe that's the reason they can't get slots....because they suck.
Oh this is all so very amusing. While I should look away from a train wreck like this I just can't. But it's just so darn ugly, like an orc's eyehole sorting blood onto an elf's face.
UA needs to live with the poor decision at this point.
United will eventually return to JFK when the FAA gets their act together. In the meantime, United owns Newark and remains the largest airline in the largest market in the country. United knows what it is doing, which is why more people fly United than any other airline into and out of NYC.
All this discussion prompted me to look at the NYC PA states for JFK, which go back to 2000…
1) I’m surprised as how small JFK was in 2000; 33mn passengers, with only 12.5mn domestic. In 2019, 62mn passengers, with 28mn domestic.
2) United was always pretty small, in the 1-2mn total passenger range. Delta was larger, American was the largest in the early 2000s. So Delta was always hovering here
3) People don’t remember, but Virgin America had a big part in what happened here. They launched and quickly had a good following with over 1mn passengers annually (bearing United), basically all transcon, making life really hard for AA and UA. Could be part of why both scaled back. Alaska bought them, botched the merger, and JetBlue/Delta take advantage
4) Faced with competiton from JetBlue, Virgin, other international airlines, Delta simply chose to stay and compete while UA/AA ran. Someone should do a case study/book on Delta’s moves. Part of the DNA is not being afraid to compete. Too many airlines cut and run. Delta actually stays to win the business
UA messed up. It’s simple.
If the B6 and AA NE Alliance is finally approved, maybe they’ll get another chance as B6/AA will have to give up some slots.
I don’t understand the JFK congestion issue, as it’s mostly the early evening issue for the European departures, by which point all but a few US West Coast flights have already departed…but with AA, and mostly B6 and DL owning the departures maybe I can understand.
And as some have mentioned, the hypocrisy of UA’s position at EWR leaves me crying no tears for them.
PS - which terminal could they operate from? Only T1 would make sense, and until the expansion do that have gate availablility?
Nope. They shared T7 with BA and a few other long-haul airlines with most having just a daily departure.
Living in downtown Manhattan and having changed to United from Delta years ago, I’m much happier with the sub-30-minute drive to EWR or LGA most mornings for departures. JFK was usually a hassle.
LGA was long underrated due to the parking situation. The years of redevelopment was a nightmare, but you were still able to park for free and walk to the airport, grabbing a cheap meal on the way. I can see the convenience of EWR for Manhattanites, you just have to pray those two lanes of traffic into Jersey are clear of drama. The best part of JFK is that I can get there all hours of the day.
except DOT data shows that Delta is the largest airline to/from NYC. Delta is the largest airline at both LGA and JFK and still flies to EWR. UA had to cancel 50 flights/day because of congestion issues at EWR.
If UA can accurately say that being at all 3 airports matters - as it does for both AA and DL which have large operations at LGA and JFK and still serve EWR, then UA failed at even the yardstick it set for itself.
I was booked for JFK-SFO-HNL in J in Novemeber on an award ticket. I called to talk about my options for changes a few weeks ago when United first threatened to leave JFK. They offered me a refund or to switch me to fly out of EWR. I ended up switching to the direct EWR-HNL flight but it's still incredibly inconvenient for me to get to EWR from where I live on Long Island. I feel like they should honor the itinerary I booked flying out of JFK but at this point that would mean rebooking me on another airline and they wouldn't entertain the thought when I asked.
All they owe you is a full refund or a free ticket change to use EWR instead. They aren’t going to help you get from JFK to EWR.
I was enjoying my non-stop flights from LAX to JFK & vice versa. Now I’m back to layovers in LGA as I hate flying to Newark. Again, Newark is not NY. Please stop advertising flights to NJ as NYC. It’s so frustrating that this is happening again!
I think granting United permanently slots would increase competition and lower costs of tickets for us [the consumer]. I don" t buy your analysis at all., unless it is to punish United.
If UA really want to be competitive, they should go back to Star Alliance and talk them ALL into pulling out of JFK and switching entirely to EWR so they can pick up any and all connecting traffic.
And making United's move even funnier, it appears Newark will no longer count as a NYC airport.
"The Newark, N.J., airport is losing its New York City designation by the International Air Transport Association. And the Justice Department snubbed Newark in an antitrust case related to the New York City air-travel market."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-newark-really-a-new-york-city-airport-snubs-insults-fly-between-rival-hubs-11664807396
As someone who has arranged an international return flight from NY to Melbourne Australia, I must say I am absolutely pissed off. Living on Long Island with a flight out of JFK was terrific, BUT to then have to return to EWR was bad enough, now they are saying I would have to go to EWR for a flight out to SFO then onto Melbourne, and return likewise. No consideration for those that are living on Long Island. My agent is trying to get a flight out of Laguardia to Chicago then onto SFO and return from Melb to EWR via SFO. THIS flight was booked in May 2022 to see family for my first Christmas with them in 40yrs.