For whatever reason, it seems that Singapore Airlines just can’t make service to Canada work…
Continue reading: Singapore Airlines Axes Vancouver Flights, Exits Canada
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I flew the SIN-ICN-YVR flight many many times in the early 2000s. The fare from India was far and away the cheapest option to North America at the time and invariably around 30% cheaper than their comparable fares to LAX or SFO.
Having worked in the industry and being familiar with general demand, Canada is a pretty low-yield market, despite its wealth. Singapore Airlines requires high yield traffic to make those long-haul flights work. It's simply not there in canada.
Also, you neglect to mention that in the 1990s Singapore Airlines flew to Toronto. They did a (if memory serves) Toronto-Brussels-Singapore flight for several years.
Maybe as those Chinese Airlines starting to pump 600USD RT flights again, SQ don't feel like sensible to keep these routes running?
It's tough to compete in Canada if they need to connect with Air Canada. Since we have almost no competition in Canada AC can charge anything it wants.
Right now for Indonesian it is more difficult to get Canada Visa compared to USA. Maybe same with other Asian country. That why demand to visit Canada from South East Asia reduce significantly...
It is similar in many (most?) parts of the world. Wait times for Canadian visitor visa processing are in the range of 450-600 days on average.
In West Africa for example, people who want to attend 2026 FIFA World Cup matches in both the USA and Canada are being told that there may not be enough time for them to acquire visas for both countries if they apply today. This is for an event over THREE YEARS AWAY. Normal guidance is to apply at least two years in advance of your planned vacation.
I flew this flight roundtrip last October on an itinerary to Cambodia (YYZ - YVR on AC, then YVR - SIN - PNH on SQ). Great deal at the time, and tons of connecting traffic to South Asia (full plane plus lots of happy passengers holding passports from India).
Canada, despite our "massively smaller" compared to the greenback (does it matter if you're spending it in Asia?) is incredibly competitive with plenty of Asian airlines for connections. And we're very price conscious. SQ probably didn't want to work so hard against competitors like AC direct to most of Northeast Asia with connections via OZ or NH. BR direct to TPE from YYZ, or even PR direct from YYZ. Even Cathay Pacific has a partnership with AC - I literally had to search through the backwaters to find an SQ flight. Niche at best when it still flew.
Just another data point, visit visa application from Nigeria in Oct 2021 still pending
YVR has a very large population of people from HK, and the SQ service would require backtracking a fair amount up to North Asia. That's a disadvantage compared to AC/BR/NH/CX services. SQ would only be able to effectively serve SE Asia passengers here.
This crossed my mind too. My last flight to China, September 2019 - just before the pandemic - was $330 r/t NY - Chengdu on China Southern (via Guangzhou). Business class was also cheap, I believe around $1,800. I just don't know how SQ can compete with that, even if their product is far superior.
There's plenty of SE Asia passengers, particularly from YYZ. But the travel agents who send all the Asia-specific traffic also lean towards AC/BR/NH/CX with their deals as well. SQ couldn't carve itself a niche that meant a 15+ hour flight to Singapore would be worth something like a connection. Even PNH is quicker connecting through North Asia!
Funny enough CSN currently have a superior product in Business than SQ, at least they serve soup for all long-haul outbound flights from CAN and also offer free internet for J pax as well. The only place now SQ shines is in Y, however, if you are flying Y, you vote with you feet on the cheapest fare.
Before the pandemic, MF's FOC-JFK flight need 95% capacity to breakeven, you can imagine the price war they are initiating...
Maybe if SQ did a stop in HKG on the way to/from Vancouver, they could make the route work. There are more folks with ties to Hong Kong in Vancouver than folks that have ties to Singapore.
Lol which metal? A380? No thanks.
A330? No thanks.
B787? They don’t even have direct aisle access.
On the A350? How many do they even have? After trying in domestic market, I’d say only hard product is good.
Their service is inferior in J in every way. Poor lounge experience. Poor western option meals. Poor wine and champagne selection and knowledge. A rigid crew. I know someone working in CS and admitted that they don’t have to work a lot.
Chinese food options? Even Delta have better Chinese food options out of PVG (no kidding). DL even have customized DL chopsticks meanwhile CS has bamboo ones.
They are not in any official alliance.
Xiamen or JiXiang or Hainan is far superior than CS and wouldn’t put it on same level of SQ yet. They put out cheaper ticket than CS in J as well.
I have often been puzzled by the number of international non stops from Vancouver. It has a modest metro population (2.6 million), yet seems to be served like Boston, Mass with almost double the metro population.
Uh oh. We have a flight scheduled to DPS on 10/8-10/21. Any idea when in October they will be cutting service? Looks like I have some sweet hold music to look forward to in order to see if we still have a trip or have to rebook thru another city. Not the way to start my morning, but appreciate the heads up.
from Harare to edmonton their prices on cheap flights were awesome, still hope to use before October,plus short lay overs.
Canada is not what it is used to be. Very protectionist, not encouraging competition especially in airlines and telecom. Insane prices for everything. Almost everything is a scam, quality to price ratio is subpar. Do hou want to visit Banff in the summer? You won't find decent accommodation for under 500 CAD. I honestly do not know why people want yo visit Canada. Go to Europe. Lots of history, beautiful places, and they won't charge you an arm and a leg for flight, accommodation and food.
Their international business class is pretty nice, and have great deals when using ANA miles. Their food needs work though.
Having flown across Asia on business for a few years, I would prefer to fly point to point. I was happy that SQ, started flying again from Van to Sing direct as its a good jumping off point to the rest of Asia. I guess my March trip is safe, once back will have to work on my fall trip. I will miss you SQ, tks so much.
Ok thank you. Now I'm hoping they do cut it as it is much cheaper to fly from NYC than YVR. Just made sense as we're in Anchorage to fly from YVR, but saves a boatload from NYC. Will call later when I get time over lunch.
Singapore is a Star Alliance airline, so you'd think Air Canada would offer stronger feed. But they're not too robust out of YVR or anywhere else in the West.
Canada in general travels mich more per capita then the US and Vancouver, being one of the largest cities in Canada, is very important in terms of companies headquarters/general industry, Similar size US cities travel less per capita and are more in the shadow of other even larger cities.
Yes, low yield. Also, over the years, AF/LH/Others always flew their inferior or outdated J product to Canadian destinations. The newer J products got to Canada much later.
I second the idea of stopping at Hong Kong for this route. It makes sense to add another affluent city to keep this route very profitable and in consistent demand, especially when Hong Kong market is finally opening up in 2023 and beyond.
Did they consider the grueling 19 hours non-stop from YVR to SIN as a deterrent?
Am flying SQ48 SIN/YVR next week. Business and PE are full, economy however looks to be 30%. Same story on another date I checked. So likely it is just not profitable enough without the economy demand.
It is poorly planned. SQ 47 leaves at 8:35. You can't connect from domestic flights outside of YYJ or YYC.
Hmm. This could be problematic for me. We (two of us) are flying on Singapore Air from YVR - SIN on October 17 with a return on November 2. Also flying on Singapore Air from SIN - DPS return on October 18 and November 1. Any thoughts on what may happen to us in our particular situation? Will they refund? We don't want a refund. Will they transfer us to a different airline? Hoping someone can provide some thoughts. Thanks.
Yesterday, I tried to get an award seat YVR-SIN for May. Not successful.
It's possible, SQ wants to expand to 6 times a week to Seattle. Currently SEA and YVR each have 3 fights per week.
Singapore and Canada doesn't have an air agreement, at least in 2009 they didn't.
SQ would have much more success flying out of Toronto which is Canada’s financial and corporate HQ hub and a much larger city at 3x the size of Vancouver. Plenty of premium traffic to make a long haul route profitable…
All internationally configured 787s and 330s designated as 78C and 33W have direct aisle access
I checked seat maps on Expert Flyer for the next few scheduled flights and they seem to be quite full. Only a few empty seats at most in Business and Premium Economy. Economy had considerably more empty seats (showing as blocked, but they seem to be random and irregular so I'm assuming it's just a quirk of how seating is shown) but if you can fill up premium cabins there's no reason why a flight should be losing money.
I think singapore Airlines is overpriced and over rated the food is poor as well If China comes back in a big way and that brings the prices down then I'll consider traveling with them again .Recently traveled Auckland Heathrow with them premium economy.
It's the timing of the fight. Departs YVR at 08XX so no one in Canada can get to Vancouver in time to connect to it.
Exactly this. The timing does not allow for almost any connections. That is the biggest issue!
Maybe they should look at their price points. They are typically 3-4 times more expensive than competitors with one stop. I have chosen to stop in Taipei, and SFO 3 times in the past year at a fraction of the price. SQ wanted SGD $19,500 for a round trip to YVR last December. Simply not worth it.
The Singapore-Canada bilateral actually allows for unlimited nonstops between Singapore and Canada. It’s not open skies as the fifth freedoms are heavily restricted (limited traffic rights through intermediate points).
3x a week is pretty crappy as well. You are expected to pay top $ for business travel but you have to work around SQ's schedule...
I had a return flight booked in Oct coming back from singapore to vancouver. i got notification today that the flight has been changed and will land in seatlle. nothing else was provided, does this mean i have to find my own way back from Seattle to Vancouver? any help would be greta
That makes zero sense.
YVR generates far more Asia-bound traffic than YYZ, and is a shorter distance (read that: "operational costs") to Singapore by more than 1,300mi on what's already an ultra-longhaul operation.
If they can't make YVR work, then there's no way in hell they'd be successful on the longer-distance and lower-demanding route to YYZ.
Singapore and Canada doesn't have an air agreement, at least in 2009 they didn't.
Where on earth did you get THAT from? lol
Singapore and Canada have long since held a bilateral Air Transport Agreement, the most recent iteration having been renewed in December 2007.
It's nowhere near 19hrs on even the worst day. Heck, the NYC flights rarely take that long.
Not much that AC could really do to help, considering the timing of these flights.
The eastbound is fine, but the westbound departs prior to 9am, so connections from just about anywhere significant in Canada other than YYC are unlikely.
TRANSPARENT TRANSLATION: "I tried to hookup with a Canadian, and he/she told me to sod off."
So by that logic SQ should only keep LAX-SIN because it’s “closer” than both the EWR-SIN and JFK-SIN routes they run very successfully? Proximity has no bearing on where an airline flies, it all has to do with how much they can sell at the front of the plane.
YVR is mostly a leisure market to Asia which is why this route didn’t work. This is the second time SQ couldn’t make YVR work. Even at YYZ with the likes of Air Canada, Cathay, EVA, Korean, China Eastern, China Southern, Hainan and Philippines all flying daily frequencies to Asia, SQ could still make it work given the high level of premium traffic…
That's because for those who have ties to Asia, they would prefer to transit somewhere in North Asia ❨Tokyo, Incheon, Taipei or HK❩instead of Southeast Asia. For someone going to say Beijing, the journey+transit time of Vancouver→ Singapore→ Beijing would easily exceed 24 hrs. Don't forget the time taken to and from the airports. SIA only works for those going to SEA or Australasia.
Just recently flew SQ (YVR - SIN - SGN)
What originally was a 1.5 hr layover when we booked, became a 15 hr layover when SQ shifted it’s YVR departure one hour. So I would agree with the commenter that there are plenty of other airlines with more timely connections from YVR, or SEA to SE Asia.
We were flying business and were grateful to access the “nap lounge” in SQ’s Changi biz lounge. As far as SQ’s reputation for premium inflight experience that wasn’t really evident here. The food in the biz lounge was more satisfying than what was presented inflight.
Loved the seat and service though, but SQ is not really a competitor on this route. In hindsight would opt for EVA, JAL Cathay or China Airlines if given the option.
I think it would be profitable if the schedule wise better not very poor is scheduled to arrive in Vancouver at 5:30 but it would often be early at 5:08 am and sit at the airport for about 3 hours And leave about 8:35 in the morning
Why could then they not fly a SIN-SEA-YVR and v.v. daily flight instead (or at least 4-5x a week) ?