Typically I like to make ”best of” lists, including about the world’s best business class seats, world’s best business class airlines, etc. Not to be too negative, but I thought it would be nice to mix things up, and talk about the world’s worst business class seats.
Continue reading: The World’s Worst Business Class Seats: Here Are My Picks, Do You Agree?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
OMG clearly you have not flown Pakistan international Airlimes! Worst business class on earth! At least the flight attendants were cute.
On Delta's ancient 763s, here's the thing, yes, the aircraft and seats are old, no doubt. However, there's still a sweet spot for Medallions that selected RUCs and GUCs, being able to purchase Main and get D1, instead of having to purchase more expensive Premium Select to upgrade to D1 using the certificate. RUCs and GUCs are far better than AA SWU and UA PlusPoints, as RUCs and GUCs are far more likely to confirm at booking, instead of dying on the waitlist like AA and UA.
im gonna try and guess tim's comment. ok here it goes:
"Typical clickbait meant to trigger me by not including United's horrible 777-200 with a 2-4-2 configuration. Delta pays its employees the highest in the US and also United still has unhappy employees and have not ratified a new labor deal yet. Also Delta has superior RASM/CASM. Also if I was on Royal Maroc I would obviously be a bottom"
@ Dan Nainan -- I have flown Pakistan International Airlines, and yes, the premium cabin is pretty awful. However, it's marketed as "Executive Economy" and not business class, so... 🙂
Intra-Europe 'Business' Class simply should not be called 'Business'... it's an economy seat with a middle blocked in 3-3 configurations, or the seat open next to you in 2-2 configurations, or just simply a better snack/meal.
South America is interesting, too, where Aerolineas Argentinas calls their First/Business recliners 'Premium Economy' (when that would be like a domestic First in the US), while LATAM calls its 3-3 middle-blocked 'Premium Economy' but is more akin to what Intra-Europe 'Business' is like.
Confusing stuffs.
EgyptAir 777-330 Biz please? It's basically the same seat as AI, or Emirates or other angled flat seats
Not just Tim, anyone who's flown United's ultra-dense, super-old, rear-facing, 2-4-2 config. 772 knows it's not the best, but, still, it's better than a recliner, and a recliner is better than economy. Yes, United's flight attendants should keep fighting for a better contract, and I hope they prevail.
Delta's flight attendants, maintenance technicians, and baggage handlers absolutely should join their pilots (since 1934!) and dispatchers in organizing. Those workers can both enjoy profit-sharing as well as job protections and other benefits that come with unions.
Air Canada - constantly deflates - issue hasnt been fixed in years.
Immovable tray table bruises knees if you are a side sleeper.
I've flown some of these (like Ethiopian) when I have no choice and I mostly agree with your assessment- except for this. I don't find "angled flat" seats inherently inferior to lie flat. I'd rather have a well cushioned and amply wide/open angled flat seat than a narrow lie flat seat with no room for my shoulders and a tight footwell. I actually end up sometimes not fully reclining in those kinds of lie flat seats so I don't feel so locked in. Width is actually more important to me than absolute flat pitch and I think it does not get enough attention in reviews.
If it's their 2-2, lie-flat, for a 737, it's not bad, especially for their 5-7 hour flights across the Americas; like, it's far better than a mere recliner, which is what nearly every other 737 operator, except SQ with it's 2-2, 1-1, 2-2 configuration.
Another one: Turkish Airlines older a330 'Business' class with broken angle-flat stuck upright for an 8+ hour redeye. That will make you wanna 'stay home' next time.
Oh, and older 777 on Qatar, 2-2-2 is a real disappointment, especially if you're expecting Q-Suite, but then the airline does a last-minute swap for a 13 hour flight...
I would add Turkish Airlines' awful 2-3-2 configuration on their B777s (of which they have many). They also send these to prime markets like JFK. I would rank that somewhere between Air India's and Emirates' 2-3-2 configurations.
Yet they offer a domestic first/business fare, formerly known as Business Select. Withoya blocked middle seat, it is worse than intra-Europe business class.
Although UK based and not having any experience of ex-Gatwick based BA seats. After hundreds of flying hours, I can attest to the quality of the LHR based A350, transatlantic J seat. It worked for me for many years and may well be the exception to Ben’s opinion of other BA true business seats.
Minipods in Qatar its 777…. there are about 6 planes with these angled lie flat seats and no plans for retrofit
the comment would be that
1. Some of the world's most successful and largest airlines have large portions of their fleets w/ inferior business class products - but they don't seem to suffer because of it. It blows the mind that Ben harps on DL's NPS but doesn't think that other airlines aren't affected by far larger numbers of "inferior" aircraft.
and
2. DL manages to use its 763s in markets where most of them are actually superior to the competition - specifically domestic routes including to Hawaii and transcons and competitive with UA 757s.
in other words, DL uses MOST of its 763 as a widebody on routes competitive with older narrowbodies and widebodies.
It blows my mind that Ben is incapable of seeing that DL uses its fleet where each fleet type's attributes best work.
BA, EK and LH certainly don't segregate their fleet USE as well as DL does.
A few personal takeaways:
1. herringbone seats. Although hated, and I agree on the storage part, I've had some of my best nights of sleep on short transatlantic hops in herringbone seats on AC and VS.
2. LH 2-2-2 biz. Not private, but not all of us care. Really comfortable and convenient when traveling with someone.
3. BA 2-4-2 biz. As a family of four, the middle section is also really convenient.
Yeah but what about important things like wireless charging pads and shoe cupboards??
For me it depends on the context.
For example, flying solo on a full flight I would hate to be on a 2x2x2 set up.
Flying solo on a quiet flight in business with seat empty next to me or with my partner then 2x2x2 is one of my faves. I love the sense of open space and no cubby holes for feet or awkward positions for sleeping.
Ronnie, they did not have such things when you started to fly last century. You managed then and the proletariat will manage nicely now without them …. 🙂
I would add:
- Delta 757s used on domestic D1 routes (for which pricing is comparable to TATL D1)
- KLM A330s, old and narrow with zero privacy and very little space
you realize that UA has a much larger fleet of 757s which are very similarly configured as DL's 757s and they fly longhaul international flights which DL's 757s do not?
a pretty big chunk of DL's 767s compete on routes where UA uses 757s. Why you and others fail to understand the comparison is hard to grasp
@ Tim Dunn -- Genuine question, and I'm not trolling. Do we know how many transatlantic routes United's 757s fly in winter? I'm curious so am trying to look it up. I see EWR-EDI... and that's all I can find? What other routes am I missing, as I'm sure there are some?
Tim - Once again, spewing toxicity that far overshadows whatever useful facts you might have to share. Your last sentence was unnecessary, rude, and totally undid your constructive contribution.
Didn't your mother ever teach you good manners? It's impolite to insult strangers who've done nothing wrong.
do you know how many TATL routes that DL uses the 767-300ER on during the winter?
The number falls dramatically.
The point is that DL and UA know that their 763s and 757s, respectively, are their weakest product and pull them from key routes as soon as they can while using them for flex TATL capacity in the summer heavily to unique or heavily leisure markets.
Even on the transcons, the 763s make up a smaller percentage of the fleet during the winter while DL uses more 763s on domestic flights esp. from ATL that don't normally see widebodies.
The only reason I bring up the UA 757s is because of the incessant inability to note the context in which DL uses its 763. The UA 757 is by far a weaker product than the UA 757 and yet you can't seem to accurately note the context in which either are used.
I'd be happy to knock it all off if you would be willing to accurately note the context in which all airlines use their weakest product including UA's 757s and EK's 777s etc.
+ as a family of 4, we definitely prefer the BA yin-yang configuration in CW, vs the Club Suites. Although on the A380, we still select the upper deck as it is a lot quieter - in that case we select two of the outboard seats and 2 out of the 3 seats in the middle.
I fly Turkish Airlines almost exclusively and I actually appreciate the different J configurations on their aircraft. When I'm traveling solo I choose an aircraft that offers the reverse herringbone configuration but when I'm traveling with my wife and toddler, we appreciate the 2-3-2 layout as we can all sit together. I would imagine the seats and comfort layout far exceeds the experience of some of these other products, like that toilet of an airline from India.
Yup. And, from experience, their actual recliners are better than the angle-flat that's broken and won't recline at all. Of course, the newer a330 with true lie-flat is just fine. But you never know what you'll get until the day of the flight. Constant swaps.
Ah, yeah, they call it Choice Extra nowadays. Since they're doing assigned seats starting the end of the month, it's all about to get very interesting at SW. I got the $500 Chase Travel credit to use... so... *throws hands up*
@ Tim Dunn -- "do you know how many TATL routes that DL uses the 767-300ER on during the winter?"
I don't, but I know it's a lot more than one. That's why I was asking about your comment where you said "a pretty big chunk of DL's 767s compete on routes where UA uses 757s."
Controversial but I'll say I dont care for the Finnair or any "zero recline" business class that only lets you sit at 90 degrees upright or flat bed!
in other words, you can't provide the context so you just assume that DL is at a disadvantage when DL's 767-300ERs are used primarily in markets where product matters but UA's 757s are supposed to get a pass.
Let us know where UA uses its 757s NOW and how that compares competitively.
I realize it takes a whole lot more work to figure out where BA, EK and DL all use their most inferior products relative to their entire fleet but that is the context that matters far more than all of the talk about how great or bad any airline's products are.
first, Ben is hardly a stranger even if I haven't met him in person.
and second, Ben really does want to improve his product and I have proven that I want his success which I do by engaging with him.
and third, good manners includes being honest with people which, in this context means that framing facts in their proper context matters.
DL knows that its 767-300ER product is its weakest but they still led the industry in NPS score - or at least their execs are not telling the truth bcause that is what they said.
But DL does know how to use its products where they matter the most just as BA, EK, DL and UA and every other carrier that really does have product differences whether Ben accurately makes the comparisons or not.
Ben is hardly a stranger. at least to me. I engage with his work and have rejoiced and lamented with him over the years.
He is certainly not a stranger. He is a friend to me - in an online context which is where the majority of people interact w/ him.
I would add Swiss a330 to this (maybe Brussels too, but the IFE is at least better) and old BA club world
KLM bc seats are pretty awful to. Sure, they are lie-flat. But there's almost no space if you have + size 9 feet. And the chair when turned into a "bed" is rock hard and not wide enough. KLM also does not supply a matrass so sleeping is virtually impossible.
That photo of the DL 767 business class seats is hilarious. What a waste of valuable space. Yikes!
You forgot the super overrated and awful Singapore angles flat beds. Not only do you have to stand uo to turn them into beds but sleeping in diagonal fashion even non tall guests have a hard time getting comfortable. Even their fantastic service and menu offer cannot overcome the most overrated seats in Asia.
How telling that a supposed airline 'analyst' won't or can't provide such simple data.
Because all the other products on here are the same?
Your claims about it being "comfortable" or preferring the layout, when things like Emirates or Lufthansa have the same qualities.
"Some of the world's most successful and largest airlines have large portions of their fleets w/ inferior business class products"
That describes Delta Air Lines perfectly.
I always find this argument interesting. Is «the sleeping at an angle» issue solely because you sleep at an angle or is it relative to the seat, i.e. seat facing forward, sleeping at an angle?
BA should be top of the list. You missed to include Qatar Airways old 777 and even worse the Airbus 330 if they still have them flying. Also Cathay regional business shoud be mentioned, way worse than some of the beds you included in the list.
Don’t bother.
Tim has serious mental issues, and UA and DL are his triggers. He can’t help it. That’s why he was banned from almost everywhere in the aviation community and no one takes him seriously. Just ignore the sick things his mind produces and enjoy the pure entertainment that he provides by making such a fool of himself.
Great job, Ben. There's absolutely no shame in doing a 'worst of' in cases like this.
One question: Should we take any hope in the few exceptions to the usual intra-europe biz class? Am thinking of ITA, for example. I flew from Rome to London, and was lucky enough to snag one of their real biz class seats. Maybe this will create a trend?
@2 That's funny, Tim, because in my anecdotal experience, I've never once flown a Delta 763 domestically, but I have flown them TPAC, TATL, and to South America all within the past 6 years. Plus every 737 I get on seems to lack IFE and charging. I love Delta, they've got some rockstar employees, but their hard product experience has been thoroughly "meh".
whats the longest route they fly recliners on? Its all intra-asia yeah? (Not saying some of those routes arent a good chunk of time). I think I flew the recliner once from HKG-KTM
I flew on Delta One suites on the 767-400 … and it was the most uncomfortable seat I’ve experienced. So tight that you can barely move…never again
thank for proving that you really don't want to engage in conversation with people that have different opinions from you.
Healthy adjusted people that can engage in conversation with people of diverse ideas don't celebrate other people's lack of conversation on other platforms.
A.net is nothing but endless arguments in conversations that never die.
none of which changes the real issue which is that the vast majority of very successful airlines have a variety of products and they are not at all close to being comparable.
the 767 is the smallest widebody, is on its last few years, and allows DL to compete in a number of markets where other airlines use narrowbodies or, in the case of UA, high density 777s.
The simple reality is that there are a very small number of routes on which DL uses the 763 that are competitive with other airline widebodies that are configured with their best international product.
The DL 763 is most competitive with UA's domestic 777s - largely to Hawaii - and with the 757s to Europe and DL's 763s compare quite favorably from a product standpoint.
that is simply a fact that a whole lot of people don't want to hear.
Fiji Airways A330. Alllllmost reclines fully, but has just enough of an angle so you slide down.
Cathay's regional routes can vary significantly in length. It can be as short as a bus or train ride to downtown or it can be as long as a transcontinental flight especially during winter.
And while they have made strides for some of the more "premium" routes along with red-eyes to get some form of lie-flat as the A330s have been relegated to regional routes sans Cairns, it still makes an appearance throught the regional network.
The good news is that select A330s will be getting a flat-bed product, so I can see the recliners be relegated even further to lower yielding routes such as Manila, Cebu, Phnom Penh, etc.
TAP Air Portugal A321neo, used for transatlantic flights. Super tight foot well, narrow seat at the shoulder area when fully reclined, hard seat.
Way longer than most euro business class flights that made top of the list even though only 1-2 hours in the air
The grindr comment is KILLING me
Didn't know Ben was a stand up comedian now 😉
We just flew from the US back to Europe with Avios reward, plenty of availability on BA but one had to do a lot of checks to make sure that one doesn't get the old Club World.
We got the new Club Suite on A351, the plane was nice but BA's service leaves still a lot to improve and the Club Suite is really just a glorified standard herringbone. Looks nice but that's about it. IFE is meh and who buys Airbus wide-bodies without the cameras!
The older Saudia A330s are worse than the Delta 767s.. had the pleasure recently of one.
Controversial - actually like the Virgin ones purely as the bed surface makes me sleep ridiculously well. My wife does not agree.
See ? Told ya !
It’s as easy as that.
I’ve had a harder time trying to bait my shitzu than little Timmy …
Here’s my honestly as “good manners.”
I was not shocked to see you lunge as soon as I saw DL made the list. I’m also not surprised to see you neglect to answer a direct question posed to you, choosing instead to. deflect and gaslight.
If constantly attacking Ben and using flippant and dismissive comments like “you do realize” every time you put your fingers on a keyboard you are NOT invested in Ben’s success. You are using Ben as a tool to advance your own brand.
As I have already said…and will continue to remind you because I am so invested in your success…your approach undermines any credibility you might have.
You frequently say you are here to refute everything you perceive to be wrong. Well, Tim, we can all play that game.
Surprisingly, many old business-class seats from the 2-2-2 era are far more comfortable than today’s so-called “top seats.” I had a last-minute aircraft swap from Qatar’s Qsuite to the old 777 2-2-2 configuration and I had no neighbour. The space in front of me was huge, and the comfort was much better than in the Qsuite, where I keep bumping my knees all the time.
In my view, Qsuite-type seats look great in pictures, but in practice they’re not that good for sleeping.
It's an odd thing, for sure. But I agree. What they lacked in privacy and storage space they made up for in comfort and a feeling of spaciousness. Funny how the only times I ever managed to fall asleep for hours on end just happened to be on these seats, which were often angled too.
"Now, Air India does plan on reconfiguring these jets, though the project is substantially delayed."
Which is it? Is it now, or is it substantially delayed?
Remember Cathay's 2-2-2 seats on their 744s, A340s, some A330s as well as Singapore's Spacebeds? Those were some great times!
Icelandair Saga Premium is kind of like those campy Icelandic movies on the IFE. Good for about 20 minutes, then the production value starts to rear its ugly head.
I had the displeasure of flying AirIndia "Business Class" from EWR - BOM. This was the era when they were having bedbug problems, so the trip started off bad. But it is international long haul...it will get better, won't it?
Short answer - no. The seats were pretty much standard US domestic business-class seats, in a staggered alignment, with the person in the window unable to exit their seat area if the person in the aisle was sleeping. Imagine a 17-hour flight with no bathroom access. The meals were typical coach-class quality food. The bedding was...well, see my bedbug comment above.
I will admit that the cost (under $1,000 return) was a definite positive feature. My employer would not let me book business class (although now, having read the employee handbook, they were wrong) on a major airline, but since AI business class was less than a coach ticket on another airline, I was permitted to book it. Too bad the experience was less than a coach-quality one.
There's a sweet spot to British Airways Club World. It's the window seat! Very nice. The other seats are not very good.
BA does not provide any service. In general you will see crew member twice: when they serve meals - regardless it is 7hrs flight or 15 ( like mine from Shanghai ). Disaster.
Avianca US Columbia Business class is actually an economy class 3seat row converted to 2 seats, with legroom comparable to JetBlue coach. It is a joke.
Avianca US Columbia Business class is actually an economy class 3seat row converted to 2 seats, with legroom comparable to JetBlue coach. It is a joke.
Aside from the obvious intra-Europe blocked middle seat nonsense, my least favorite business class is Singapore airlines, mostly from a missed expectations standpoint. Sure their service is great, and first class is amazing, but their business class seat is simply not competitive against other mainline asian carriers. That tiny little foot cubby off to the side, just awful.
I mostly agree, in particular about the European Business Class.
I disagree about the "old" herringbone seats. I always had a comfortable sleep on NZ, AC etc. I still don't grasp why people rather expose their head to the aisle than their feet ...
To add a few more poor showings: The old Swiss and Edelweiss J (narrow and cramped), Icelandair Saga (just recliners), the old Latam and new Edelweiss J (no direct aisle access, very exposed) ...
Are you sure about the BA 787 retrofits? I thought I'd read elsewhere that the 788s were the last ones to get upgraded and even the 788s are almost done now.
Separately, the worst "Business Class" seat truly has to be Iceland Air being listed in the same breath on google flights as "Business Class". I realize it's not exactly what you mean by seat, but the number of people that must get tricked by that premium economy seat because google flights and Iceland Air told them it was business class and listed alongside true lie flats trans-atlantic...?
Your Air India business class experience from 2018 is relevant and informative for travellers in 2026. Thanks for posting.
Peter
Are you suggesting the UA IPTE 2-4-2 seat is worse than euro business class? That’s laughable
ANA’s 787-8s, which are flown between Japan and South East Asia, have horrendous recliner seats. Just awful for a 7-8 hour overnight flight. And with crappy IFE.
Tim, no question. I agree.
TLDNR: DL is 763 in J is better than a narrowbody on the same route.
While I got stuck on a 763 out of BOS pre pandemic, it was only because my incoming flight was delayed and I missed the 333. In reflection, I should have been happy. When this happened again in 2024, they couldn't get me better than Y on the later 333. So, 1) I can easily schedule a TATL DL flight and never get a 763 (since I have 5 DL hubs that make sense, though MSP is marginal) and 2) if I can't avoid a 763, it is nearly certain no other airline flies that route with a widebody (and their narrowbody is 2-2).
Interestingly enough, these "new" Edelweiss planes are all ex-LATAM! The first few aircrafts in service retain LATAM's original 339-seat configuration (30 business, 63 premium economy, 246 economy). The company plans to install a completely new cabin interior at a later date.
Most years, I have two flights on KL or AF European Business. The problem WAS that, on the E190, no seats were blocked off by AF. I read that will/has changed. I am OK with it, because 1) the longest I'd ever get is <2 hours (and usually barely more than 1), 2) the unimpressive pitch is OK for this short guy, 3) I find all coach seats wide enough, 4) I like an empty seat next to me, and 5) they don't seem to upgrade, so the J area feels better. I was pleased to find that AF swapped out the 319 for a 220. Having the only seat in J now (3 months prior) I was able to snatch the window seat on the "2" side, the aisle seat is blocked out (as is the middle seat on the "3" side).
Euro-J is a very peculiar beast... Perhaps it doesn't belong to this list.
I guess majority of the passengers are either connecting from/to long-distance flights, are politicians who fly on a public dime, or are bigger fish flying on a company's dime...You won't spend more than 2.5/3 hrs in the air in it...
Not comfy at all, in majority of the cases, but you get lounge access and priority lanes at the airport. They may also feed you something more or less edible during the flight itself.
As mentioned by others, CX's A330 regional recliner is AWFUL and I believe some are still flying around.
NZ only shows the reconfigured 777 at their site. It uses reverse herringbone. Looks way better than the old. The 787 is being reconfigured from the 1-1-1 in Ben's link to a 1-2-1 herringbone. The good part is that, on the old design. you sat at about a 45° angle to the fuselage whereas it is now about 30° with more shell around you. FYI: I've never flown J on NZ.
I just flew this a few times and found it largely OK. Acceptable for sleeping and one of the few J seats where you can comfortably get out of the seat with the tray table open.
If Emirates 2-3-2 made this list then Turkish 777’s 2-3-2 should be on it as well. Even less privacy than Emirates, same horrible concept that allows for a middle seat in Business Class on 14-hour long flights.
To be fair, I’ve managed to start appreciating this seat somewhat once my son was born -putting him in a middle seat between myself and my wife makes sense and allows to control what’s going there during the night without much effort, but that’s the only use I can imagine for this layout that doesn’t involve cursing the airline
I'm taking the LH 2-2-2 for the first time this spring. But the award price for J was the same as Delta's award price for Premium Economy. So I will treat it as PE+ and be happy.
exactly - very good point. Nowadays it seems that everything is 100% about total privacy, doors, suites, cocoons - but not considering the real space.
I was flying many times China Southern old business class (same that you find in old Turkish Airlines, old Qatar Airways) - yes with neighbor surely not top notch.
But you have tons of space in your seat area and 10 times better for sleeping than most of the current C-Class config..
Sleeping in old CZ Business Class was just great with space to every side. Nowadays (just last months Singapore Airlines 787 and Air France A350 - of course nice but also very tight!) - and that's today's trend - more privacy, less personal space!
other than the shaking, I find that to be a great seat. Also, the pre-programmed zero-G position....the best out there!
A few people in the comments mentioned IcelandAir's business class that's really a premium economy seat. I would upvote that, too. The only saving grace is that it's not quite priced the same as a business class seat on other airlines (but definitely more than a premium economy one).
There are certainly a few on this list that are WORSE, but I'd take almost any lie-flat seat over the Iceland air ones if they were at the same price.
I am glad that you mentioned Emirates in this article. On a trip last year I was not happy with the 2-3-2 configuration. Further, I think if the business class is 1-2-1 most will agree that it is better than other configurations. It is interesting that you did not mention the seats that you do not lie flat (such as Finnair). Some information is not 100% correct. The reason the EU airlines offer the basic style of business class is mostly because of the short flight times and a more premium on ground experience.
Agree. Worst business seats ever. Dubai-zurich. Also swiss service so bad. Since then trying avoid swiss
I agree with you completely. On an overnight flight I don't want someone climbing over me to get to get up. That is not comfortable.
Ben — I know you like to heckle Tim Dunn whenever possible, but how on earth is Delta’s 767-300 on here while Swiss’s A330-300 not on here? They are essentially the same product except for the fact that Delta’s product at least offers aisle access from every seat — whereas Swiss’s doesn’t.
I recently flew the Virgin 'coffin class' seats LAX-LHR, after a last minute equipment change from the A350 to the 777. I was very disappointed beforehand, but it wasn't actually that bad. In the end, I had maybe the best night's sleep that I have had on a TATL flight in recent memory.
You forgot terrible Air Canada seats that always have issues with deflating and an immovable tray table that bruises the knees of side sleepers.
You forgot terrible Air Canada seats that always have issues with deflating and an immovable tray table that bruises the knees of side sleepers.
I actually like the old LH seats. Granted, I usually don’t fly solo, so privacy is less of a issue. That being said, the seat does not feel old (except for the IFE, which really is a joke). The seats are very well maintained, are firm and make a surprisingly good bed. There are worlds between the old emirates or BA seats and the LH ones.
LH J when traveling as a couple isn’t half bad, especially because I find that it DOES run a bit cheaper. Part of me wishes that product still had a place.
For a hope to LHR from the east coast it's fine. I don't expect several visits from the FA, as I want to eat and sleep. Big issue is the lack of individual air nozzles. It's not just a comfort issue but a health issue. Much better to keep the air moving around you.
Agree 100% with Ben's List! I will put Air India on Top, Not because of seats, But because of passengers.
I recently went to New York from San Francisco on the Delta 767. Del should be ashamed of using that plane and calling a delta one. What a joke.
From a not living up to their reputation standpoint, I'll go with Singapore airlines with their tiny footwell off to the side awful business class seat.
I've endured AV's A320 J seat quite a few times and am surprised @Ben has not included it. Not only the pitch is worst than many economy seats out there, but it's recline is almost inexistent. And that console between seats is a joke and serves no purpose because it has virtually no usable surface area.
that's personal I reckon. for me, Finnair's the best biz seat out there but I do appreciate why others won't like it.
I am sure that seats like Royal Air Maroc's or Lufthansa's shown in this article are far less divisive.
We flew BA LHR-DEN 787 biz two years ago, and liked it well enough. Not the best, but I'd rather that than the ANZ / VO open setup.
Totally agree. Having your feet free on an ottoman rather than in a cramped tunnel makes a huge difference. I’m flying to Europe next month, and I opted for a redemption that puts me in J on LOT Polish rather than Swiss. I’m flying with my wife so I don’t need privacy from the person next to me, and I’ll have a lot more space in their dated 2-2-2 layout.
BA Club World is horrible as a solo traveller but as a family of 4, it's hard to beat the middle 4 seats (Q suite aside)
Delta One trans Atlantic is horrible as far as the hard product. I have never paid more for business class than I have with Delta. I have never slept on a harder flat seat than Delta. I could feel the bumps and spaces where back of seat eas meant to be snug with the seat you sit on; while on bed mode
And yet I can book any other airline for less and get a better more comfortable seat. Delta service is good. But so is KLM service. Delta thinks they are premium in the US, but United Polaris is much better
Flew Avianca QYE-JFK on a 321 in March. No major complaints, but it was nothing better than a PE experience on any TATL flight.
Isn’t ITA’s A321 with the 1-1 J seats used for Intra-Europe flights along with regional flights? (I took it from FCO to CAI and back). I wonder if Lufthansa Group is going to stop using it for Intra-Europe flights.
American Airlines Embraer 175 with the 1-2 configuration. The seats are set in recline mode and so bloody annoying. If you like to sit up straight like most people, you can't. I hate them.
The worst J class by far. I know they are domestic, but legs such as DEN-HNL are longer than some TATL flights.
On my last flight a passenger was begging people to change seats as his wife did not want to fly "backwards". Apparently the lady has a vertigo issue.
These birds really need to retire.
I do like the new Business Class seat on BA, and agree that the old one is really outdated. The exception is when I'm travelling with my partner and have a middle double seat. It feels like a little cocoon to ourselves with lots of privacy and a nice place to share. Otherwise, bring on the roll-out of new seats BA. On other airlines I often find the level of service is more important to me than the actual seat, although I agree with you that the Virgin herringbone seat layout is horrible.
I hate Etihad's old business but love their new one on the A380 and 787.
JAL on the HND DOH is absolutely awful, not sure how common this is.
BA 'the first flat bad' isn't too bad, it's better than the Emirates 2-3-2 777s for sure.
On a good note - ANA 777, SQ A380 (despite the hate - its good), EY A280/787 and obviously QR Q suites put BA/VA/LH/ET/AI
Ben, you are missing any ANA product that isn't the Room.
In particular: ANA’s 787-8 recliner seat with the almost useless footrest and terrible IFE that they use on some 7-8 hour flights to South East Asia. Simply appalling for a medium to long haul flight.
I agree with you on that. I will never step foot on one of their planes. I just don’t trust them.
As Charlie Brown once said, there is no greater burden in life than having great potential.
Agreed. I just flew Fijian from lax to Sydney and it’s lovely but still so cramped. I’d prob prefer (esp if I’m with my wife) travelling on the less privacy better ottoman options. Eg the old United. We’ve had great trips on kenyan even! Qantas bulkhead is great.
The old non room ANA that flies to Australia is a terrible seat now. I remember being so excited to fly in in 2015.
Good point! Both ITA and Aer Lingus have *some* intra-Europe flights featuring a real business class.
Playing footsie or being played footsie by your neighbour on Lufthansa old business class middle seats might be fun.
I would add Condor's biz class seats; they're very narrow and hard as a rock. My wife and I flew with another couple last month and we all agreed that we got almost no sleep on the JFK to FRA run because the seats were so uncomfortable.
In fairness, the intra-european business class doesn't bother me in the slightest, for flights 2h to 2.5h max and not on BA. BA has aweful pitch, even in row 2. LHG on other hand has good pitch upto row 7 usually and then upto 12 still tolerable. The free middle seat is handy to leave things and mid-tray and foot hold. The versatility it gives airlines is amazing. Now for 3h and longer flights, yes, it is getting inacceptable. But vast majority of flights are perfectly ok this way - because the cabin isn't 100% full most of the time, like in the US.
Divisive for sure given the reviews I have seen. But flying on Finnair's A350 BKK-HEL-BKK made me a fan. That seat just works.
I'm surprised Singapore Airlines didn't make your list.
The seats look beautiful and feel luxurious, but that doesn't make them comfortable. Apart from the regional Business Class, I find the long-haul seat a triumph of design over ergonomics. It's incredibly wide, yet you almost need extra pillows just to support your arms.In bed mode, it's even worse. You're forced to sleep at an angle, there's no comfortable way to lie down and watch TV, and you end up twisting your neck to see the screen. Even when upright, the screen feels far too close.
By comparison, Emirates may not have the widest seat, but it feels much more natural and far less claustrophobic. For me, Singapore Airlines' long-haul Business Class is a beautiful-looking product that just isn't very comfortable.
Not sure it's still a majority of the BA 787 fleet that has the old Club World seat now that the majority of the 788s have been refitted with Club Suite
I think you are wrong about Lufthansa, at least partially. Sure, the old product lacks privacy but the seat itself is probably one of the most comfortable and ergonomically designed business-class seats out there. It’s soft, supportive and can be adjusted into many genuinely comfortable positions. Privacy and layout matter, but they’re not the same as actual seat comfort.
Honestly. The whining about BA Club World 2nd generation Ying Yang.
Every wannabe travel influencer has an instagram reel whining about it.
It's one of the few J seats where you can sleep in any position because your feet aren't stuck in a tiny cubby hole. Most airlinew now reserve that for F.
In J, unencumbered space seems to have been relegated below privacy walls and doors.
I think most airline brand teams need to recheck their conjoint analysis.