Earlier this year, the SkyTeam alliance announced some changes to its lounge access rules, and they’re a mixed bag. I want to post a reminder of these updates, as they apply as of today, for better or worse.
Continue reading: SkyTeam Lounge Access Changes: Domestic Access & 3-Hour Rule
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
This is meaningless because it won't apply to Delta Sky Clubs. And Sky Clubs are by far the biggest airline lounge in the SkyTeam lounge system.
And it's also meaningless because Delta denies Sky Club access to its own Sky Team elites flying an international Delta flight in economy.
I see this as very positive , if fonestic access extended to the US.
The 3-hour rule doesn’t apply to connecting flights, so I can't see that being an issue. Maybe if a flight is delayed but I’d guess the rule is applied by not letting you in until 3 hours before scheduled flight time.
Yes, like FNT Delta Diamond suggests, it doesn't matter.
Because some intellectuals by the name of ORD and E39, sometimes Proximanova have told us more than enough that SkyTeam is a trash.
Just wondering what airline from ST spent beyond its limit to earn a five star rating from ScamTrax and struggling with their nonsense seats as a result.
Sure, it's okay because it's Star Alliance, no?
VS introduced a 3 hour limit last year at the LHR Clubhouse which is only enforced in my experience early AM - midday and evening times during public holidays or if the place is packed out.
Lucky - I'm curious what counts as a "domestic" flight from KLM and Air France for these purposes. Does this include all Schengen area flights? KLM for example, the only "domestic" flights they have are stuff like AMS-AUA.
You always had lounge access on flights between European countries.
“Domestic” is pretty limited on KLM - the only flights are to Caribbean territories, no idea if they counted as domestic or international previously.
The Caribbean flights are complicated due to the evolution of the Dutch islands in terms of self-governance. As far as I know, the Netherlands still handles foreign affairs for some or all of these islands. But I think for purposes of KLM these would be considered international.
In practice, most of the airlines which are “going to” provide lounge access to SkyTeam ElitePlus for domestic SkyTeam flights have already been doing so.
ABC destinations and the like are considered international by KLM for lounge purposes.
I mean, if this means I get access to delta sky clubs on a domestic itinerary due to my non-delta skyteam elite plus status, I’m all for it!
Still think skyteam sucks though
The restrictions on the 3-hour stay and on guests' flights are just petty. Particularly with the guest thing which must be a good way of getting more people interested in loyalty schemes and alliances by being exposed to the perks by friends/colleagues.
Domestic lounge access sounds good until you realise that the alliance includes three members (UX, RO, AR) which have no lounge facilities of their own in their main hubs*, and that the likes of Aeromexico don't bother with contract lounges at key domestic destinations such as CUN.
*I know Aerolíneas have one at EZE, but AEP is their main connection point, certainly for domestic and regional passengers
They're definitely international flights, I couldn't get into Aruba with my EU identity card and was made to dig the passport out of my bag.
I notice Virgin Atlantic status is excluded from this list for domestic access. Likely speaking to Delta's deathgrip on Virgin Atlanta.
I suspect they will ultimately follow the One World and Star Alliance rule that elites in non-US programs will have access to lounges on US domestic itineraries. But, Delta elites would not just as AA, Alaska, and UA do not.
That's nothing to do with Skyteam, I had no problem using a DL lounge with my non-DL status.
Does this mean I can access Delta lounge on domestic flights with status? That is pretty amazing...
F*** !
That 'premium' bully just poisoned the
whole industry.
First Ed came for SkyClub and no one could do a thing.
Now Ed came for SkyTeam and still no one could do a thing.
Finally Ed's domino will knock Oneworld StarAlliance and we have no decent alliance left.
I find it fascinating that the one thing skyteam had going for it was its leisurely approach to guesting people into lounges.
Now that competitive advantage is gone
Yes, it is. Sky Team is letting Delta deny Delta elites lounge access on an otherwise eligible flight for the sole reason that the Delta gold or higher medallion booked an economy or basic economy ticket.
I don’t mind the requirement that guests of elite+ need to be on the same flight. I’ve been approached by more than one person loitering by the entrance to the klm lounge in Ams and once in Paris asking if I could guest them in so they can shower. Always an awkward interaction if I don’t just say sure.
Having just travelled delta 1 to and from us from uk, in one breath delta say checkin time is mininum of 3 hrs but if you do that you will be denied lounge access until 3hrs prior to departure
Well, the other thing that it has going for it is that it's not oneworld.
For me Skyteam is the perfect backup alliance- there's nothing particularly exciting about it, but it does go to a lot of places, some of which (e.g. Africa, Indonesia) aren't particularly well served by the competition, and the baggage benefit means that entry-level elite status is worthwhile. Similarly, it includes various underrated airlines (e.g. I would much rather cross the Atlantic in Aeromexico business class than go back to UA, while Garuda, VN and MU offer a solid experience in Y within Asia). *A obviously is in a different league, but I do value having some Skyteam status.
Were SK already giving it to E+ members of other programmes? I suppose the geography in Scandinavia means that domestic flying is more important than in Germany or metropolitan France.
But it's not meaningless because the E+ members of the other 16 (or whatever) Skyteam FFPs can use DL lounges. The restriction is confined to one airline not letting its own members into its own lounges.
Another stupid rule to make an already weak Alliance further weaker. Let's be frank! Skyteam is the worse out of the three major alliances with the weakest airlines, weakest network, and worst reputation. It is almost the alliance of the unwanted airlines. These three-hours rules are unnecessary and just create more annoyance. We don't want to go to airports early but given the continued shortage of labor, security is a hassle and no one wants to take the chance especially on the busy travel seasons. Plus lounge crowding will occur regardless because of all the credit card benefits that no airlines will want to take away. They will never get to the bottom of the issue because they ultimately rely on credit card (premium ones) to make money!
My original comment referred to the largest airline in Sky Team and the airline flown by the vast majority of Sky Team-flying readers of this blog.
SK did in fact not give lounge access to E+ members of other airlines on domestic Norway/Sweden/Denmark itineraries
I can agree that skyteam elite is somewhat more useful than *A silver.
But I still rank oneworld higher than skyteam
DieTeam is a garbage alliance. DL is a garbage airline. That is my judgement, which is far more important than yours. Why can you be disregarded? Because you're trailer trash, and you're on the same side as Tim Dunn.
what does this mean "though members of Aerolineas Argentinas’ Aerolineas Plus program and of Delta’s SkyMiles program won’t consistently receive this benefit" ? it that a yes or no that these airlines will provide domestic access...why the vagueness? just lazy reporting or don't you know?
Wow, this is giving "ULCC network" vibes. I'll never understand SkyTeam's value proposition... just when I think it's bad, they find a way to make it worse.
Delta SkyClubs are specifically excluded, but you would be able to access other SkyTeam lounges (such as the Air France lounges at BOS and JFK).
Finally I can get lounge access on domestic flights in China. It was annoying as AF Elite Plus member to sit at the gate waiting for departure on these domestic flights with MU.
Since this blog is USA centric it means the US. Flying blue elites have access on French domestics. The only other domestic could be China or South Korea.
@Olaf: Damn!! I've never been to China, HOWEVER I JUST CHECKED THE PRICE OF DOMESTIC FLIGHTS AND THEY'RE INSANE!! No wonder you choose to fly Y instead of J. Lounge access thru status will be a big win for you.
These people will have ca. 36474 credit cards giving them access to those lounges, so it's not a huge issue for them.
It's definitely less easy/cost-effective to do that when you're e.g. someone who primarily flies on KQ or is based in a Central European country and travels everywhere via AMS/CDG.
The worst is Delta, AmEx, etc. interpret 3 hours as 3 hours before departure, not boarding. For an international flight to the USA, boarding is generally listed as an hour before departure. For domestic USA flights on Delta, it's 40 minutes. So you get shorted on lounge access since you'll actually only be able to enjoy the lounge for at the most 2 hours.
@UncleRonnie Actually, the current prices are the result of the Lunar New Year. Are you checking the prices for this month and next month? With any holidays, the prices will go up. It is normally not that expensive and it is usually worth it to buy J instead of Y.
@Stanley C - no, I went looking for Y flights between various Chinese cities into April and May too. $500+ for a two hour domestic flight is high IMO! $3000 for J seats. And there don't seem to be cheaper rates on Tuesday vs Friday either. Just high across the board. I never knew 🙁
For Chinese domestic flights, you need to search with a Chinese travel booking site like Ctrip (or its international version, Trip com). Google Flights and other Western OTAs only have access to full fare Y and C fare buckets.
Skyteam is so ridiculously inconsistent it's tragic. Poor aerolineas Argentinas people
Hey, as a FB elite, I empathize with the Delta folks, but Delta isn't the only airline out there. My solution to their Sky Lounge BS is not to fly Delta domestically, and avoid Delta metal as much as humanly possible internationally.
As for these changes, they're not great. It seems not long ago, you could guest anyone with a boarding pass, now it's a ST flight, and in a few months, it'll be the same flight. I've had a different flight guest once or twice, but it made an impact and a difference. The same for the 3-hour rule. I'm normally not in an airport they long, but I've shown up earlier, for various reasons, and the lounge has made my time productive.
With the exception of lounge access, does SkyTeam not provide a *meaningful* tier status benefit that One World and Star Alliance do? With the exception of lounge access, they seem fairly similar.
Outside of the lounge access thing, Skyteam elite benefits are actually superior than the competition as the first-level status gives you both business class check-in and extra luggage on ALL fares, and Sky priority is much more coherent and widespread than Gold Track (I haven't seen an oneworld equivalent, but then again I only need to fly with their airlines once or twice a year).
The perceived inferiority of Skyteam is more of an urban legend perpetuated through blogs and fora than an accurate reflection of the current landscape. They were never *that* bad, and quite a few of their members (Saudia, AF, MU to name but three) have upped their game significantly over the past 8-10 years.
Making SkyTeam even more inconsistent than it already was. Getting lounge access on domestic sometimes, but not always. Having the stupid 3-hours limit (which itself is a massive disgrace) at random lounges which are not published anywhere.
I consistently got fast track as a *G whenever flying *A, except at airports with no fast track. With SkyTeam as a STE+ it's quite random.
The problem with guesting is that it was abused and people started inviting random people, not just their actual travel companion, which led to increase in entries and hence in costs. This is the result of all those smart guys offering guesting on various frequent traveller websites. Sadly this will also affect people who used the benefit legitimately (e.g. leaving from a business trip with a colleague travelling to another city) but I understand why it is necessary.
The three hours rule on the other hand is as anti-premium and anti-hospitality as can be, and goes against the entire idea of lounge access. Disgraceful.
No airline was giving lounge access for domestic flights to STE+ because they couldn't bill the other FFP for it. Some airlines in SkyTeam did give lounge access on domestic flights to *their own* elites but that's different from giving it to STE+.
There are 750+ lounges in the SkyTeam network, and just around 35 airports with Delta SkyClub. This is not meaningless by any measure, for example as many mentioned already, this will be a massive improvement on Chinese domestic flights. It will also be quite useful in Scandinavia where there's a lot of domestic air traffic (particularly in Sweden and Norway due to geography) and I guess it won't hurt in Paris either.
Thanks for your thoughts. This was my perception. And, I view this lounge access change as a first step . . . testing the waters. The announcement suggested that they intend to expand the policy and I wouldn't be surprised if it ultimately mimics One World and Star Alliance policy. And, given that lounge crowding is an issue that many airlines are facing, I wouldn't be surprised if One World and Star Alliance adopt the three-hour time restriction for non-connnecting flights.
Regarding AF lounge at JFK or SAS at EWR, aren’t their in terminals which don’t have domestic SkyTeam flights anyway?
So purely theoretical improvement (?)
@Samo, it's a bit different from just priority security though, the point in Sky priority is the coherent designation/branding that makes it easier to access all priority services, including separate passport control queues where available. The *A equivalent is 'Gold Track'- and it works at least as well, but it's only used at *A hubs and a handful of other key airports (e.g. LHR), whereas Skyteam's idea is to use the concept everywhere and include whatever services are available/contracted at each airport (e.g. flying AF from CDG, you get the whole lot including express passport control, flying AM from CUN it's only priority boarding).
I was nearly denied entry to the Maple Leaf Lounge at FRA last year as a *G travelling in business because of their own 3-hour restriction. They made me dig out my incoming boarding pass to let me in.
AFKL lounge at LAX is so far away from everything else. A long walk from TBIT-W to the rest of the airport.
I believe AA and BA have already implemented or floated implementing a three-hour rule for non-connecting itineraries.
I think we're going to see the three-hour rule spread to most lounges, whether airline-operated, bank-operated, or Priority Pass.
I’ve definitely used SkyTeam Elite Plus for domestic lounge access in economy class on AeroMexico before. This was quite a few years ago, so not sure if that was a mistake, if it changed since then, or if this announcement marks a change!
Honestly, given all of the issues (where the lounges are located, limited domestic flights for some of the alliance partners, etc), this seems to have little real impact.
I once flew TLS-ORY (no onward connection) in Air France economy, traveling as a Flyingblue Gold member, and I did receive access to the (contract) lounge in Toulouse. So I'm not really sure how to interpret this "change" vis-a-vis my previous domestic flying experiences in France.
I was a bit upset but then realised there's literally no Elite Plus lounge worth spending 3+ hours for.
JK. I don't know how anyone takes this alliance seriously.
Does DL ever consider advocating for their own elites? Might as well get elite plus with another airlines as opposed to wasting so much on diamond with Delta.
The vast majority of Delta Diamonds are accessing lounges via a credit card (or a membership). There are very few situations/itineraries where a cardholding Delta elite wouldn’t get lounge access where a similar elite in another alliance would
Weakest airlines? Unwanted airlines?
Say what? DL (non-767), VS (non-787), and AF are all pretty good. Most of the hate DL generates is from people who flew them transatlantic once 10 years ago on a 767-300 and can't comprehend the fact that fleet networks change.
Would you seriously rather fly AA and BA?
I would probably care more about this if I could think of some good examples where I'd rather kill 3+ hours at a SkyTeam lounge than Amex lounge... but I'm coming up short.
Sigh, delta being delta. Here was I excited to use the AF lounge in SFO on a domestic itinerary. Looks like that won’t be possible for delta gold/platinum/diamond/360
Delta still going out of its way to screw over its own elite passengers - by being the exception to the entire alliance's rules, and continuing to ban their own ElitePlus members flying international itineraries in economy. What a pathetic joke of a program.
Time to become a FlyingBlue elite instead.... The SkyMiles program has zero value proposition.
oneworld and Star Alliance have different rules. Star Alliance rules just exclude UA members from United Clubs on domestic flights, but you can access all other Star Alliance lounges (LH, TK, SQ, etc.) as a UA Star Alliance Gold even on Domestic flights.
AF always went above and beyond the requirements for ST for its own members. No change for you but it is the case for a DL member now they'll get access on domestic AF.
I'm not a DL flyer so at first I thought these rules were similar to the exclusion UA elites have accessing UA lounges.
But am I right to understand that currently Delta elites flying international economy cannot access a Skyclub? If so, that's a surprising gap compared to UA (admittedly ignorant of what AA offers in this respect).
They’re not part o Schengen Agreement. IIRC Aruba Curaçao and Sint Marteen are considered their own countries(even have their own parliament) along with the country the Netherlands in Europe and all belong to the Kingdom of the Netherlands while Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, and Saba Saba St eustatia are considered Dutch municipalities.
Delta elites can access SkyClubs when traveling internationally. Certain exceptions apply.
It's a good first step. Great for CDGNCE. AF & KAL at JFK T1, no go for Delta T4. AF lounge at LAX is in the mid-field concourse, no go for Delta T2. Adding Korean at LAX would be nice. But, frankly, the current SkyClub at LAX is excellent.
You say: "SkyTeam Elite Plus members continue to be allowed to bring one guest into lounges, though that guest must be traveling on the same SkyTeam-operated flight as the member."
But the Virgin LAX lounge access rule says: "SkyTeam Elite Plus members travelling on Virgin Atlantic or Delta + a guest traveling on an international flight operated by a SkyTeam carrier"
Based on my reading of the Virgin LAX lounge language, the guest can be traveling on a different flight. I doubt this is what Virgin intended, but that is what the language says.
The Skyteam website says that only Virgin's LHR Clubhouse has special access rules.
This is a great enhancement for SkyTeam Elite Plus members! It finally brings SkyTeam in line with oneworld and Star Alliance by offering domestic lounge access, a long-overdue perk. Including Air France lounges in U.S. airports is particularly exciting for frequent domestic travelers. However, the exclusions for Aerolineas Argentinas and Delta SkyMiles members are unfortunate—especially for Delta flyers in the U.S., where lounge access is already a contentious issue. Overall, a positive change with a few caveats!
The new rule kicked in yesterday, Virgin probably just has an old version posted.
This is why I think CI has a better frequent flyer program within ST. Even as a CI gold member which means just ST elite you can access the lounges on international flights. For example, you can access the KLM lounge at Amsterdam airport as a CI gold member/ST elite as long as CI flies to that destination but you do need to be on the CI operated flight. So, since CI does not fly to Paris a gold CI member cannot access the AF lounges but CI Jade and Paragon members can as ST elite plus. But if CI flies to that destination all of its CI elite members including gold can access the lounges.
According to their website “ Gold members, when taking a self-operated international flight of China Airlines and Mandarin Airlines, can use VIP lounge on the date of departure.”…
@Ryan
With FB elite you don't get 'upgraded' to a comfort+ middle seat.
The perks of SkyMiles, getting stuck in an imaginary extra inch seat is already an 'upgrade'.
You gotta love the customer feedbacks they got from somewhere, probably Tim Dunn.
klm and A/F have more than doubled most prices in the last 2 years ,food and service has been declining ,and I haven't been on a European flight that has left on time for the last 12 months ,paying more for less
Anytime a frequent flyer program takes away, they lose the loyalty of long-time customers. It shows a lack of planning foresight, which I know is difficult, but they hurt their brand. I have been a Skymiles member for over 30 years but no longer have a good taste in my mouth for Delta and how they have functioned. Lines getting into lounges don't work.
@Wingslover yes, exactly. That is what I was saying from what I wrote earlier, lol. Even if it is not their own operated lounges you can still access other ST lounges as a gold member with CI as long as you are on a self-operated CI flight such as the KLM lounge in Amsterdam. CI must self-operate to that destination in order for their gold members to have access and if not only their Jade and Paragon members can access the ST based lounges since they would be ST elite plus. I also noticed on their app that they have contracted lounges with other non-sky team airlines such as the use of the CX lounge at London and I think it was the Virgin Atlantic lounge at New York City.
They say 3 hours before your flight you can access the lounge, but boarding begins 35-60 minutes before flight and you have to be on board 15-30 minutes before departure.
In reality you get access for 2-2.5 hours to the lounge and not the 3 hours they suggest.
3 Hour rule: Well purpose is reduce crowding. So I have been in many lounges they don't follow the rule when it is not busy. But always when crowded. I think that is fair. Think rather the rule from Airfrance when arriving on T2E and leaving at 2F 6 h later you should have access to both lounges.