Okay, I think I’ve ranted enough about my recent Royal Jordanian experience, between the bad soft product on the Boeing 787-8, and the awful hard product on the Embraer E190-E2. In this post I’d like to discuss a topic more broadly, which I can’t really make sense of.
Continue reading: Royal Jordanian’s Strange Air Marshals: Sort Of Undercover But Very Obvious
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
"EgyptAir’s third most recent crash was pilot suicide." Ben, you've mentioned this in the past and I'd like to reiterate that this is (at the very least) disputed.
"Here’s where it gets interesting, as I see it. These air marshals on Royal Jordanian really, really blend in… down to the fact that they watch entertainment with headphones, and even go to sleep for extended periods of time."
US air marshalls do the same.
Any wonder why airlines from Muslim-majority countries have to have air marshals? It's because there are 1400-year-old feuds between various varieties of snackbars that no one will let go of and their adherents believe are the most important thing in the known universe. Their culture is definitely not a civilization.
YOU. DONT. HAVE. TO. RUIN. EVERY. SINGLE. COMMENT. SECTION. WITH. YOUR. RAMBLES.
Take a few off, FFS.
@ GRKennedy -- Sure, everything is disputed, though. Many people also believe the earth is flat.
I don't know now but for sure in the '80 of last siecle there was always a secret police member on board of any RJ flight.
I used to fly from Vienna to Amman on 747 in first class and most of the times this guy was always the same and finally we got friend. But he never sleep or watch a movie on the big screen.
Here are some questions for the experts: are those Air Marshals allowed to eat Haram food, and do they wear turbans ?
I'm not starting a holy war. I'm just stating that there is one happening de facto that I'm contributing nothing to. If you think that some Muslims are ridiculous for thinking we're still fighting the First Crusade, the Shi'ites are even more ridiculous by not acknowledging that they lost the Second Fitna in 692. Snackbars carry grudges.
Sure it's disputed, but only by the Egyptians. Almost nobody else retains any doubt whatsoever.
YOU. CAN. COMMENT. AS. MUCH. OR. AS. LITTLE. AS. YOU. WANT.
Take a few on, for fun sake.
Ah, so, not starting, merely perpetuating. Got it. Besides, the Third Fitna's where it's at, Habibi. (Mostly because it occurred during the year 747... which, is an awesome year for aircraft names, too... if you're trying to tie this back to the focus of the blog...)
@Roberto, a few quality minutes with your favorite LLM vibe coding a block script can bring you the peace you desire. The right tool for this is a browser userscript that runs whenever you load a {insert blog site} page and rewrites comments from annoying commentators locally before you see them. Install Tampermonkey (Chrome/Edge/Safari) or Violentmonkey (Firefox), drop this script in, and you're done.
Hi Ben.
I feel like this is a post you may want to consider removing. I don’t know RJ well but the Jordanian Secret Service is unlikely to enjoy seeing this reported on the internet. Could make for an awkward transit (or visit) next time.
That's really cool that you flew them in the 80s. Do you remember, were they still called "Alia Royal Jordanian" or simply "Royal Jordanian" at the point you flew with them? (Long-time avgeek here)
Wow, that's impressive, 1969. (I'm assuming Roberto won't see this, because, if he follows your advice, he won't have to... *wink*)
I'm curious as to how an unfederated state like Jordan could possibly employ 'federal air marshals'.
That should've read 'non-federal country'. An unfederated state is something different!
I met a former air marshal during my recent visit to Jordan. He said that they're meant to stay awake, but that for some longer flights they would have multiple so they could co-ordinate rest
I saw this comment at the top and assumed it was in response to some strange trump related comment. I’m a fan of 1990.
And you think bad actors wouldn't notice on their own?
Rather than shooting the messenger, maybe start by better blending in.
“I’m curious… are these guys actually allowed to sleep, or does the lack of supervision onboard just mean they do whatever they want?”
I would’ve just asked them.
Aaron, anyone who knows the answer to that question is hardly likely to post it herein. Anyone who does post an answer will be confirmed as a Walter Mitty know nothing numpty.
I watched security guards on Chinese airlines. On China Southern they were dressed in uniforms, watched people boarding and walked along the plane during the flight. I'm not sure if they were seated in the cabin.
On Capital Beijing airlines, they were seated at the front of economy, kind of undercover in black clothes, didn't patrol the plane in the same way as China Southern, but they were dissappearing from time to time. Before landing, they went to change from black clothes to light ones, matching the crew. So, it's possible, they are officially part of the crew and may even keep an eye on a crew when abroad.
Some people are bothered by security/marshalls, but I don't have an issue with it.
Lmao this comment reminds me of the time I used the logo of Skadden (or was it Paul, Weiss?) as my avatar and somebody said the firm should be alerted
Same very Obvious air marshalls on US airlines . there are not discrete AT ALL!!!! they are very obvious and always had
Come on, guys! The simplest explanation is that corruption is such a normal part of life in some regions / cultures, that apparently Americans can't even fathom it. This is a jobs program, plain and simple, for connected folks. Have the right cousin / uncle / etc, and you could get a cushy job too through your connection.
In those cultures, NOT doing this would be considered weird and antisocial.
In 1970, Jordanian King Hussein massacred about 6K Palestinians in Jordan because the PLO wanted to overthrow him. He decided to stop issuing Jordanian passports to them. A year later, they assassinated Jordanian PM in Cairo. The PLO and other Palestinian factions brought violence and civil war to many Muslim countries in the area, such as Lebanon, Tunisia, Jordan among others. They have been so toxic and radioactive to all Muslims in MidEast and North Africa. Iranian Shiite never cared about Palestinian cause. They used them to fight the GCC Sunni monarchies. The US government did not want to eliminate them because it wanted them to fracture and weaken the other Arab governments so they would never unite together to fight against Israel. When the PLO failed to find a home for its headquarter in the region, Bush Sr. offered Arafat to move to Tunisia, in exchange for ceasing all air hijackings.
In spring of 1993, while waiting to aboard Kuwait Airways from Athens to Kuwait City, during Eid Holiday, I noticed the FA did not check boarding pass of the two guys stand in front of me. I asked them why she skipped them. There was a smirk on both faces that came with a reply
" There are four of us, air marshal, on the flight. Two in the front. Two in the back. We wear civilian clothes." They stationed in economy class.
Yeah, disputed by whom? It's pretty widely accepted. Read one of the finest pieces of aviation journalism: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/11/the-crash-of-egyptair-990/302332/
Globetrotter, you are in grave danger of being rebuked by those uneducated proletariat who post herein. They do not like to read historical facts as they prefer to be educated by interNOT and false news reports.
One will await the reaction from the loony, liberal leftists who parade their jaundiced agenda of the Hamas propaganda machine. I can hardly wait for the incoming, great fun.
GreenBurger, you are forgetting your previous ‘tales form the nursery’, there is not mention of your fictitious income stream. Has mummy put you on sedatives to limit your fantasies?
GreenBurger, you are forgetting your previous ‘tales form the nursery’, there is not mention of your fictitious income stream. Has mummy put you on sedatives to limit your fantasies?
We have a running joke with a friend about RJ only having one security guy. Years ago we flew out of Vienna and this guy walked around the gate small talking with random passengers (presumably trying to identify any threat). Two weeks later, we travelled back and the very same guy was on board the flight to Vienna doing the same thing.
It was the time of Alia Royal Jordanian ...747-200, 707-300, 727-200. Tristar all in light beige and gold colour...and I had the canche to fly to the old airport in downtown Amman
India’s air marshals on Indian airlines flights are plainclothes but they are far more conspicuous than US FAMs in various ways.
Late Feb 2023 we flew a small Royal Jordanian plane from DMM - AMM. There was a small incident between a Saudi family and a Jordanian family before we boarded but it ended. 4 of us were seated front row of economy on the right side of the plane (2 expats and me and my wife) and as soon as the plane was airborne the incident revived. A woman stormed to the front of economy to confront the other family's aged matriarch. Yelling, pushing, fists at the ready. The flight attendants were quickly just getting out of the way. The fact you point out the last business class seat now makes sense, the man there was standing, kind of watching the fight but watching us more intently, with a kind look on his face. Our expat friends understand enough Arabic to know what was going on. I had my phone in my hand and the air marshal motioned toward it and shook his head, don't record anything. Another woman in a very contemporary hijab came from the back as did another man, the woman was dealing with the fighting women and the man was confronting an early 20s son to get him to stay out of it. Eventually the older woman passed out, my expat friend is a nurse so she was trying to help, having a man behind us translate for her. She eventually came to and things settled down. The man behind us told us it was a religious squabble and that the older Saudi woman had said something about the other family. I'm surprised the flight didn't turn around but on we flew. Later in the short flight the other man that had come to the fight, I think he was another marshal, demanded to see our phones and that we didn't record anything. Once we landed we left the plane quickly and passed about 8 police officers in the jetway. Really interesting experience and now that random guy in business class makes sense
Well I have some insights. First of all im sorry for your bad experience. But thats another subject. The answer to your question is simple you mistake the wole of these marshalls they are not there for hijackers. They are there to show force against citizens and inforce order they helong to the mukahabrat which is the intelligence department and in this part of the world and specifically in Jordan these guys and the mukhabat in general is a body that hold the most power and has alot of alore to them so yes they want to show they are there and yea they all look the same so its basically more marketing telling everyone who bored the plane to watch out and take care and less there for terrorists...
Yes and thats the point of thes eguys they do what they want and thats good so.