EL AL is usually known for having very competent pilots, though this doesn’t strike me as very good airmanship, or like erring on the side of caution.
Continue reading: EL AL Boeing 777 Pilots To JFK ATC: “We Don’t Have Fuel And Cannot Go Around”
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Israeli government tricked America into fighting their war.
How easy you think it is to trick an American ATC you have low fuel.
Bad communication but not necessarily bad piloting.
Minimum fuel is probably the right phrase to have been used as an advisory to tower. It was prompted by tower and they did so, nothing more to follow up on.
Pilots were probably conserving to have enough fuel to be able to do a go around if necessary and were concerned about increased fuel burn in going faster.
Seems to me the initial communication was offered as an explanation of slowing down. Rather than declaration of minimum fuel situation. And possibly to pre-empt being taken out of sequence.
But poorly communicated.
140 MPH 8 miles away its pretty slow you have planes behind flying much faster closing the gap fast.
I'd say great piloting and perfectly communicated.
You bluff to land early.
You save fuel for your countrypany.
If they were coming in on minimum fuel but everything was looking good for landing and the frequency was very busy, I can see how they did not see much point in declaring minimum fuel as it would not help the situation unless they were getting an unnecessary vectors.
Reading between the lines, here's what I think happened.
1. Flight ate into fuel reserves but it wasn't an emergency
2. Pilots lost situational awareness and allowed the plane to slow down
3. Pilots also knew the ATC controller was 'that guy' so when he threatened to take them out of approach, the pilots declared minimum fuel to stop him
A minimum fuel declaration isn't declaring an emergency; it's just telling ATC they can't absorb any more delays without it becoming an emergency.
Random asshole leaves a hate-comment on blog piece because he has nothing of substance to add to the conversation (and views Norman Bates as a role model).
This may well be evidence that the Bibi-Trump War on Iran is having real effects on fuel availability in Israel. The govt. may be limiting jet fuel after the Haifa oil terminal was pulverized by the IRGC. As they say, FAFO!
There is no shortage of fuel in Israel.
The attack on the Haifa oil terminal occurred 2 months ago and produced minor damage, resulting in a few days of interruption.
There is no shortage of fuel in Israel.
The attack on the Haifa oil terminal occurred 2 months ago and produced minor damage, resulting in a few days of interruption.
Sidebar comment: As ex-ATC, I get it that NY Tracon and the affiliate Towers have a variety of challenges, not the least of which is staffing. “That Guy” may be technically competent, but I wouldn’t go too far out of my way to put him on a pedestal. His phraseology adds to issues and stress. Nobody should be blabbering on in run-on sentences, even him. Regardless of how busy I was, I always slowed it down a notch when controlling the confused, the foreign, the morons.
That said, Captain El Al should have declared Minimum Fuel much earlier and advised the second-to-final controller at Tracon as to his status and what his required final approach speed would need to be.
Chances are you never met an Israeli. Chances are you could not go a day without relying on something developed by an Israeli.
Indeed, look around without wearing biased shades.
Considering El Al is de facto the Israeli state airline, and that nation is largely responsible for the current fuel crisis by instigating the aggression against Iran... they of all people should be fully versed and prepared for the fuel crisis and be tankering sufficiently for flight exigencies.
This is weird. El Al pilots most of the ate Israeli Air Force alumni. They are professional and very experienced. Not sure if this was ground control or pilot mistake. This should be investigated by israel civil aviation authority. There could be a training opportunity here
Including, when Aeroflot could still fly to the US and sometimes did using Soviet material, the IL-86 which could not fly at such low speeds without stalling, hence having to "crab itself" slower by turning right and left from the direct path, making some passengers believe that the pilots were drunk. Maybe they were but that was not the reason for the turns.
Obviously - the writer isn't a pilot and unfamiliar w ATC communications. This is not an exception and happens regularly at JFK.
Too bad he didn't properly research, here's another example from JFK:
https://youtu.be/XyZx7gOBp5w?si=gVhXu4h1FvOlPrly