In aviation, we see a high number of close calls — for every disaster, there are a countless number of near misses. We’re also aware of these more than in the past, given the increasing popularity of flight tracking software, plus the public’s interest in aviation incidents.
Continue reading: Dangerously Close Call On Mexico City Runway With Delta & Aeromexico Jets
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
ATC communications worldwide are supposed to be done in one language which is English.
Communications at MEX should not be in Spanish.
Only a matter of time before a close call becomes an accident. Curious, why did the Delta plane have to sit for an hour then return to the gate? The only thing I can think of is to check the brakes after an emergency stop.
This isn't strictly true. Comms are allowed to be done in local languages as well.
"English shall be available at all aerodromes open to international air traffic and used upon request between aircraft and air traffic control."
— ICAO Annex 10, Volume II, Chapter 5, 5.2.1.2.1
Not saying it wouldn't help, but your statement isn't strictly true.
@ DavidW -- Could be brakes, and/or could just be that pilots needed a second to cool off, given how anxiety inducing that close call must have been.
Thast is not enterily true. Throughout Latin America (Spanish-speaking countries, except Brazil, for example), communications from airlines in Spanish-speaking countries are in Spanish.
There are more cases, like Russia, where national airlines' communications are in Russian. I don't know of any other specific cases, but there are certainly more.
But the regulation states that they must be able to be in English (but this is so that foreign crews have the ability to operate, not that all countries must only speak English).
As a curious fact, with the opening of USSR airspace to international traffic there around 1970, the biggest difficulty was that many ATCs in remote areas of Siberia didn't know English because there was never a need to work with foreign airlines).
French is widely used in French ATC as is Spanish in Spain but countries like Germany and the Netherlands use English, at least for official communications and responses. I have heard pilots and ATC banter in the local language when listening to Dutch ATC but will then switch to English for clearances.
boy this is old news, if youre gonna bash mexico at least do it while it's still fresh news.
Not really correct, Tim. Although English must be available at commercial airports and ATC centers serving the “public”, it is not required for ATC communications to be done in English.
In Central and South America the vast majority of countries have Spanish as a primary or official language. By population, South America in particular is almost evenly split between Portuguese (mostly Brazil) and Spanish. One could even argue that having most communications at MEX in Spanish, where flights from English- (or non-Spanish-speaking) countries are in fact a minority, would generally enhance safety.
For example, “Line up and wait” versus “position and hold” as an instruction was only standardized in 2010. The landscape of aviation language continues to evolve, and perhaps this near miss will result in further changes - we can only hope.
If they got anxious and needed an hour to "cool off" while on duty, then that's not a job for them.
Yes, this happened several days ago, but Ben made it abundantly clear in the second paragraph he was making a new post due to finding new information. As of right now, I don’t see any bashing of Mexico in the article (or perhaps surprisingly, in the comments, at least as of yet). Stating “this appears to be a major mistake by ATC” is a fair and balanced take based on the facts as we currently know them. Stating “all Mexican ATC controllers are obviously incompetent” would be a patently false, unfair and unbalanced take, but that’s not what is posted. I’d politely suggest you save your claims of racism for the obvious examples of it that frequently permeate the comment section. Until then, I respectfully suggest you quiet your quiche.
Admittedly, I'm a well off white guy living in an affluent suburb of D.C., however, I don't read this as bashing any country, just pointing out the individuals who may be at fault. This one happened in Mexico. Other close calls have occurred elsewhere, including the U.S.. Ben's reporting on this is similar to his reporting on the others.
Jesus, wholly disagree. The “man up and get back to work” era is rightfully ending. Suppose the DL pilots repositioned immediately back to the end of the runway and took off, only for the aircraft to suffer a an engine compressor stall on climb out. It’s something all pilots train for and has a clear course of action/checklist, but already being amped up on adrenaline from the close call could enhance the possibility of mistakes and (again, could) result in a disaster.
It doesn’t appear the DL aircraft would have entered the high speed regime yet, so brake cooling would be less of a concern. Not saying no concern, just less. What would be important is getting their statements on the record while the incident was fresh in their minds.
Yes, use of the local language happens regularly between ATC and aircraft and between aircraft.
but clearances when foreign carriers are presented should be done in English; a takeoff clearance when a foreign aircraft should be given in English and the pilots' responses should be done in English.
"...quiet your quiche."
Thank you. Another saying I'm going to steal and liberally use. 🙂
given the current aviation spat between the US and Mexico, you would think that Mexico would do well to follow common sense and best practice. It's not like the US hasn't criticized Mexico for safety, something I don't think has happened w/ European countries
given the current aviation spat between Tim Dunn and rest of the world, you would think that Tim Dunn would do well to follow common sense and best practice.
what does the color of your skin have to do with anything related to this article?
"you would think that Mexico would do well to follow common sense and best practice."
"common sense" would be realizing that since the dawn of air traffic communications, most countries have employed their most commonly used language for the majority of communications, with English only being available as required. That's not new.
You're really confusing your opinion with fact, here.