It’s not uncommon for airports to have curfews, and generally speaking, they’re strictly enforced. This is especially common in Germany, where Ryanair has frequently lashed out at regulators for enforcing curfews.
Continue reading: ANA 787 Approaches Frankfurt 18 Seconds Early, Forced To Go Around
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As expected of Germany. Follow the rules to a T to the point it defeats the purpose of the rules.
There should be a grace period, in this example from maybe 05:00-05:05. If the flight crew estimates an earlier arrival than 05:05, they should slow down accordingly. Then they have some flexibility.
It would be interesting, if there are any cases where airplanes where allowed to land a couple seconds earlier or later than the curfew…or if they are 100% strict at FRA, MUC and BER…
While this specific case is stupid, maybe the bigger picture is to educate airline pilots to stick to the rules and to respect curfews.
Germany’s fetish to over-regulate every aspect of life will eventually be the self-inflicted downfall of that arrogant country, who never stops lecturing others and display their alleged moral superiority.
I would put some blame to ATC. Having this plane on Approach they could easily ask crew to reduce speed, so they could land at 5am. sharp.
“Then again, how much of a grace period should there be?”
In this case, 18 seconds.
I understand the tower's position. I once came early than expected and was told by my wife to wait 15 minutes and try again.
You're right, rules are rules. If you can't comply, stay out of the country. If only the whole world would follow all German rules.
Does the airport receive an egregious fine if the rule is violated by seconds?
I don't think they're calculating out 18s of time differential.
You should know very well that block times are estimates and constantly vary day by day due to winds, routes, weight, etc.
This one honestly has a much simpler solution than the late arrivals RyanAir was complaining about. Don't allow any airline to schedule arrivals earlier than 5AM or what have you, but if they end up arriving earlier just let them land. Tower should still be directed to make flights coming in ahead of schedule due to headwinds/weather decelerate or make short detours to try and meet the 5AM curfew, but if they're early it shouldn't result in any kind of fine or adverse action.
I've been on flights where the captain came on the PA, announcing that we would be departing later in order not to arrive "too early" at the destination.
Apparently, NH203 departed just three minutes behind schedule (which, essentially, means "on time"); maybe they should have parked in the penalty box for a couple of minutes before taking off. Looking at the FR24 history, there are many instances where NH203 is "cutting it close" (e.g. 05:01 and 05:02; tomorrow morning's arrival is currently estimated to be 04:57)
I live close to a major airport in a leading world capital and I *love* curfews. They help me sleep at night.
This is entirely on the controllers. They gave the pilot an approach vector that had them come in too early.
When the aircraft began its descent the controllers should have given them instructions / vectors that would have had them landing at maybe 5:01 or 5:02. Assuming the pilots followed all directions, it was the controllers who made the mistake, not the pilots.
Another example of government bureaucracy causing more problems than it solves.
Hi Yoloswag,
I have to admit that this decision is exaggerated. I was assuming that FRA maybe opens at 05:30 and there is a grace period between 05:00 and 05:30. I assumed that the plane was in fact 30m18s too early or something like that.
But as it seems the airport opens at 05:00 and the aircraft was 18s too early.
Yes, there should be some tolerance.
Hi Yoloswag,
I have to admit that this decision is exaggerated. I was assuming that FRA maybe opens at 05:30 and there is a grace period between 05:00 and 05:30. I assumed that the plane was in fact 30m18s too early or something like that.
But as it seems the airport opens at 05:00 and the aircraft was 18s too early.
Yes, there should be some tolerance.
O Leary will exploit the he'll out of that loophole.
Germans will hate that.
Volkswagen also exploit an emissions loophole.
#hypocrites
This is obviously ridiculous. It’s an example of why Germany has lost competitiveness in the global economy, this bizarre obsession with rules even in the most counterproductive situations.
But you have to wonder why ANA schedules a flight to arrive so shortly after the curfew? Why not re-time the schedule for 30 mins later to avoid these situations? And as mentioned by someone else, why did ATC give clearance to land if this was going to be an issue?
The culmination of lots of bad decisions…
If only Lufthansa was so keen to follow the rules when claiming EU261 compensation from them.
Sorry, but with all respect, this comments makes no sense at all. Actually, its annoyingly wrong! Without "government bureaucracy" we would have a situation of a law of the jungle, where only the rule of the stronger decides who can do what and when. In most of Europe we have a culture that establishes clear rules, that everybody needs to follow. (At least ideally) Even with the catch of sometimes creating absurd situations. While much of the US might currently prefer a law of the jungle, in Europe we do not!
What's RyanAir going to do, schedule exceedingly long flight blocks so that actual travel time has planes come in 15, 30, 60 minutes early? In that case, the controllers would still be instructing them to hold until the curfew. They'd just be wasting fuel. IIRC nothing would stop the city or national government from litigating RyanAir over it either, since it'd be trivially easy to show that the schedule blocks don't remotely reflect realistic travel times and are actually intended for RyanAir to arrive before the curfew is lifted.
Re: Volkswagen, they didn't exploit a loophole. Exploiting a loophole implies what they did was legal. It was not.
Airports should provide airlines with annual "error budgets", e.g. across all of your flights you're allowed to miss curfew by a cumulative total of 1 hour. Use it wisely.
It prevents serial offenders (*cough* Ryanair) while providing tolerance for common sense cases like this. If an airline blows through their budget their complaints that the airport is being an unreasonable stickler carry far less merit.
Look at the economic indicators. GDP per head has been shrinking or stagnant. The labor force has been shrinking. Public investment levels are extremely low. Germans over-save and invest those savings abroad. All of this results in economic underperformance in relation to other large European economies. Spain, Ireland, Denmark, Greece and Italy all outrank Germany on those indicators.
There’s something about the German psyche I just can’t quite put my finger on.
Is it their legendary efficiency and precision? Or the cheating - executed with such startling finesse? Perhaps it’s pioneering two genocides and enthusiastically assisting with a third? Or maybe it’s starting - and losing - both World Wars?
Honestly, I have no idea. I just can’t seem to figure out which part of that legacy they’re so proud of living up to?
IMO it is not the rule that forced the goaround but bad work of the ATC. This could have been easily avoided.
And that rule had to be implemented to get the increase in capacity so that the additional flights did not cause too much noise. And yes 18 seconds may sound strage but if you try to enter a bank 18 seconds before the opening time, good luck. Or enter a train 18 seconds before it is there.
There’s something about the German psyche I just can’t quite put my finger on.
Is it their legendary efficiency and precision? Or the cheating - executed with such startling finesse? Perhaps it’s pioneering two genocides and enthusiastically assisting with a third? Or maybe it’s starting - and losing - both World Wars?
Honestly, I have no idea. I just can’t seem to figure out which part of that legacy they’re so proud of living up to?
It is nauseating to read comments on subject matter from those who either have zero knowledge in or express offensive biased extreme views. When I lived in Kuwait after the second Gulf War, I gained various perspectives from both East and West Germans going thorough Germany unification. In the past three decades, I have seen German tourists everywhere on six continents, except Antarctica. In the last decade, Chinese tourists probably overtake them in world tourism. German employers offered much more generous benefits packages to their employees than their US counterparts. It cost West Germany lots of $$$ to uplift East Germany to bring it to West Germany's standards. When I visited Turkey and Greece the second time in 2012, the Greeks were bitterly resentful toward the Germans for forcing them to undergo austerity, due to Euro crisis. In 2008 financial crisis, German banks were were exposed to heavy investment in US subprime loans. Since WWII, Germany remains Europe's financial powerhouse. US politicians would never invest in their country and uplift their people, only in big businesses, the wealthy and powerful cliques. The Germans dislike unilingual individuals, like English native speakers.
Of course, rules are made to be broken. It is evidently clear that today the US is the most lawless country in western hemisphere because the three branches of government are co-conspirators in it together. As usual, Europe is following US path.
Those who follow the rules by the book are deemed rote learners. There are many unknown variables on the ground that theories are often obsolete and counterproductive. It may have more to do with power trip than anything else.
I disagree with the opinion, that having a plane coming before the curfew doing a go-around ist a stupid thing. There are curfews for a reason and it is great when they are actually enforced.
However one way that would improve it would be having a penalty, ideally reflecting the actual deviation from the curfew. That way there would be a deterrent for airlines to overstep them but would allow an easy solution if there is some unforeseen reason.
If you ask 100 people who’s the arrogant country that lectures others, it’s not a European country…
The founding of the US is based on genocide. Think about it. Before lecturing others
It was 18 seconds before the curfew lifted. It is absurd they made the jet do a go around for this. The waste of fuel and impact on the environment likely caused far more harm than landing 18 seconds early would of.
Its a long haul flight. The travel time can vary somewhat significantly depending on weather and wind conditions. Really hard to fault the airline for arriving 18 seconds early when they took off the day before.
You can guarantee a citizen in the flight path is monitoring arrivals and would have made a complaint to the LBA for sleep deprivation. It’s not a joke as Germans are far more litigious than Americans per capita.
I am not a pilot. I do not know how much leeway there is to lower speed. I do know that often I was a passenger on intra-Europe flights and the pilot announced that we were doing lazy S curves to arrive later and meet our slot.
They could have done so here.
Rules are rules. Ben don’t have the audacity to talk about emissions when you fly aimlessly in any direction for no reason.
FRA Approach could have slowed them down or made them do a turn. Instead we have a Captain who has dishonored his family if this results in disciplinary action by the company.
Even if or because this case is very petty, it is getting media attention.
If pilots consistently respect the curfew in future, the goal (protection of local residents) will have been achieved.
@D3SWISS
I read about this incident elsewhere prior to Ben's reporting. It appears to be missing from Ben's article, but the ANA flight actually departed slightly late, but strong tailwinds resulted in them not only making up that time but coming in 40 minutes ahead of their blocked schedule. As they approached Frankfurt the ATC did issue speed reductions to attempt to time the arrival for 5AM, but that wasn't quite enough.
https://www.aeronewsjournal.com/2025/07/ana-787-denied-landing-at-frankfurt.html
@Klaus_S
The ANA flight left late but had strong tailwinds the whole way, causing them to come in 40 minutes ahead of schedule. ATC issued speed reductions to the ANA flight to try and time the curfew, but was off by seconds. This was not in any way on the ANA pilots.
Wow. To read these comments you'd think the only people in the world who have an ounce of sense is Americans. Maybe that's why everyone hates us and our best days are behind us.
We know better about everything. Just ask us, we'll tell you. We have an opinion on how every country should operate but are mortally offended if anyone else tells us how to run our country.
I suspect ATC was trying to get the plane to land right at 5:00 and underestimated the math on how far northeast to send the plane before instructing it to land. If they'd let it fly northeast for another 9 seconds (maybe even less depending on windspeed) before instructing it to approach for landing, then that would have been the difference between an allowed landing and an disallowed one. Go arounds like the this one frustrate the purpose of the rule as Ben said. ATC might want to consider complying with the curfew rule by having a rule of keeping planes in holding patterns until 4:59 or something like that.
Maybe instead of putting the curfew on the landing, they should put it on the approach. No approach clearance allowed before end of the curfew, except for emergencies.
That way you'd avoid go arounds and figure everything out at altitude.
For all the individuals who were less than kind to Germans, Mr. Schlappig has some familiarity with the culture. He still was professional enough to provide this information.
@Dusty:
Thanks for your explanations. I do not know whether ATC or the pilots are at fault.
And yes, this go-around definitely caused more noise pollution than just letting ANA land.
And yes, in this specific case ATC should’ve probably made an exception. In the other hand, maybe they already made exceptions the past 10 times? (I don’t know.)
I am just trying to point out that one possible reason for making them do a go-around was to maybe set an example.
To the question of whether a go-around is proportionate, I would say, "Yes, why not? If it serves the sustainable implementation of the night flight ban, then the end justifies the means. . . A go-around is a standard procedure and I am sure these affected pilots from now on will never land at FRA too early…
I'm also disgusted by that kind of rhetoric, especially by those making the WWII references. Germans generally are very aware of the role their country and even their families played in the war. They were FORCED to reckon with that in during the Nuremburg trials and post-war occupation. My fellow Americans could do with some similar introspection, especially since a number of them in this comments section supported our Beer Hall Putsch and still support the man who instigated it. Just because we were in the right 80 years ago doesn't mean we still are now.
@Klaus_S
Look at flightradar24 or similar. The flight comes in after the curfew day after day, sometimes only a minute or two. Clearly, if needed, it is vectored for some large U turns to make sure it does not arrive early. Same this morning, it came from the west, flew past Frankfurt airport out over Linsengericht to the east of the airport and back. How easy it would have been for ATC to give them an extra 30 seconds on that turn, making it longer, asking them to slow a bit more.
So yeah, ATC error in my opinion.
It is scheduled to land 05:20. I have taken the flight before, it is often held for a late departure from Haneda to make arrival after the curfew. Steps are taken to mitigate the issue.
Interesting how Germans view being on-time as late and you need to arrive 15 min before the meeting to be 'on-time'. In the other hand, Japanese are on-time and punctual, even a 30 sec delay for trains is mentioned on Google Trips. This is a 180 on their traditions.
Surely the Japanese have no trouble understanding the ridiculous enforcement of arbitrary rules.
There should not be flexiblity because then there is no point in having a curfew or having such rules. If you make an exception for a few seconds then what about a few minutes and then at what point does this stop. Related to curfews some airports don't allow flights to land if they are a certain period of time early before their scheduled time.
It should be a continuous function, say $100 extra landing fee for 1 minutes, $200 for 2 minutes, etc.
That's the type of precision you want in aviation, no slippery slope.
Bravo Germans.
Predictable responses from the usual rabble of mentally defective seppo troglodytes.
Brings to mind our flight to SIN from FRA last year on LH 747. Ground crew strike was to start at 2300. Our flight sked to depart at 2249. All through terminal 2 there were announcements that any plane that had not departed the gate by 2255 would be cancelled. Never saw so many people, passengers, gate agents, and crew running to get out of Dodge.
The truth be known, strikes at European airlines are a given. So, we are used to it. But let this blog serve as a wake up call to anyone not used to this. Keep current on airline and airport news.
I am more concerned by nationalist, fascist leaders ruling the world of today than what happened 80 to 90 years ago. Can't quite make sense out of this post.
The same flight that departed July 4 arrived at exactly 5 a.m. -- just to show them? -- but had to turn left and go about 40 miles out of the way before turning back toward the airport to land.
You clearly don't travel. People, generally, have zero problem with Americans. Try traveling somewhere and when they find out your are American, they talk your ear off. As for our government- regardless of President/Party - that is a different story.
I suspect Parker, they "hate" you, not Americans.
Seems like the controllers screwed up. Once cleared for the approach the plane should have been allowed to land. ATC is at fault for the potential early landing. The missed approach cost ANA quite a few bucks.
Had the German controllers slowed ANA anywhere by a few seconds, all would have been good.