I guess you could say that it’s review trip season here at OMAAT. I just recently returned from a review trip to Latin America, where I flew airlines like LATAM, Delta, Aeromexico, Boliviana de Aviacion (swoon!), and Copa.
Continue reading: BOOKED: A Korean Air & Japan Airlines Business Class Adventure!
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Would love you to review the Janu in Tokyo that would do really well I think
It’s not to far from Handea too
If you’re not super limited in time at HND, would be great to see a review of the recently opened Yokohama Westin… not too far by bus or taxi.
The capsule hotel sounds like fun. But if it's not your cup of tea, you could try the Royal Park Hotel, whose entrance is in the T3 departure area.
Ben you work to hard to stay in a capsule hotel , Treat yourself to the Janu, I think a lot of your readers would love a review of that brand and how it compares to AMAN and FS
No need to re-review JAL first lounge. Was there last weekend and exactly as you describe. One thing to note is the sushi menu is available at the main dining area in the evenings, even though the sushi restaurant is closed.
Hopefully you have time for a quick morning stop at Tsukiji.
@ Sel, D. — This time I plan to review the JL business lounge, since I didn’t have the chance to last time. 🙂
@ Roberto — Hopefully next time with a longer layover, but in this case I’ll literally have around six hours in the room, so probably not the ideal time to review.
Hi Ben. Definitely stay at the Fairmont Vancouver Airport! It's a great hotel - preferably on the "Gold" floor for the included lounge with great plane watching.
The first class upgrade on the domestic leg is a very recommended experience. On the day of departure it’s only around 60 usd and for that price it’s a steal. For solely domestic tickets you can purchase it on the checkin kiosk, but the staff is also very helpful. You can see on the departure monitor if first class seats are available on your flight and walk right to the first class check in for the purchase.
It includes the (simple, but) much nicer lounge in Sapporo, and a very pleasant onboard experience, they even had little champagne bottles so you can recoup the 60$.
I‘d love to read your review.
While “ class J“ is a great and very cheap upgrade from economy for taller people, it’s not really a business class product.
Not sure if you're a traingeek, but I would've loved to see a Shinkansen review for a change. I would've also loved to see an ANA A380 review as I've been asking for months lol.
Yes, staying at that on-airport hotel in YVR is an excellent idea. There is good sound-proofing on the rooms and the glass is very thick. It is a great plane-spotting room. Much like the Sheraton at CDG.
It may be worth noting in the post that you are fortunate there is no Korean ETA required for EU/US for 2024 which makes the stopover in S Korea a bit easier if you want to leave the airport.
For the airport hotel in Haneda, you might want to check-out the Hyatt Regency Yokohama. It's only a 15 minute drive from HND.
As of a few months ago, domestic JAL upgrades are available up until boarding. From Osaka to Haneda was ~$20 for the last seat in "Class J" on a 767 with the old style recliners.
Grand Hyatt Incheon is a great hotel with reasonable rates. Given the proximity I think it would be a useful review.
If I'm not mistaken your int'l J ticket should get you "first class" on the domestic A350 flight. "Class J" is not a business class product from my understanding, it's more of extra-legroom-economy plus. Premium economy seat and room, but same economy service. "Class J" actually boards last, if I remember correctly.
For posh people like you Ben...first capsule is likely not for you. The capsules are sound proof so you will get a fair amount of snoring noises throughout the night.
My partner slept in the female only area and the next morning she messaged me and told me she'd checked into the villa Fontaine midway through the night.
I didn't know because I always sleep with headphones on and phone away from me.
787-10 is NOT the first widebody of Korean Air to have connectivity. It is 777-300ER. They've installing Wi-Fi on 777-300ER since earlier this year and they're flying.
It's not written on Korean Air's website because the retrofit's not completed yet, but it'll soon be listed on the website once the whole fleet gets Wi-Fi.
Now this is what we've been waiting for!
KE's hard product improvement seems really substantial both on the 787-10 and A321neos.
A bit off topic maybe. As these were recently booked did you find much flexibility for flights to/from Asia? I’ve been having really poor results to find any reasonable availability to/from Europe this month. Not even finding availability on LH/LX to Miami at less than 200k UA miles each way. Last year 80k awards regularly were available within 2 weeks. Stingier availability? Full flights? What are you seeing Ben?
But why would you fly 787-10 or A350?
As VT-CIE wisdom advice would suggest just fly a 737, "visualise yourself flying Qsuites or Air France or JAL or something of that kind! ;)"
There are so many 737 products yet to be reviewed in the world. Then you can start moving to the A320.
For Haneda, do one of these! 🙂
1) Mercure Tokyo Haneda
2) Hotel Metropolitan Haneda
3) Henn na Hotel Tokyo Haneda
September has been the worst redemption month I've ever encountered TATL. The best I can figure is that they released a lot of J award seats a few months ago for the post summer rush anticipating lower load factors. They were quickly redeemed and then out of nowhere business travel started to take off again. You will see the J cabins looking very different compared to last fall. A lot more solo and obvious business travel is starting to happen again. I'm starting to see flights look a lot more like 2019.
I was just commenting about Haneda. Take the train one stop to Otà. Make sure it’s the local line not express. There’s several hotels there. Wake up in the middle of the night and go for a jog and hit up a convenience store.
Just flew JL Biz HND-JFK. Great hard product but soft product left quite a bit to be desired. The dine on demand for second meal service seems nice in theory but was poorly executed, in my opinion.
In regard to domestic upgrade on JAL, you can upgrade to FC within 3 hours of departure for about 70-100 dollars, if there are seats available. Since Sapporo to Tokyo is a very popular route for tourists and business people, your chances of getting an upgrade is pretty much slim to none. But good luck!
I’ve stayed at the YVR Fairmont. It’s quite nice and would be fun to see a review of it. If you have a short overnight or long day layover in YVR and the weather in the city is unfavorable this is definitely the way to go.
Add me as another that would like to see both a Fairmont YVR review and a Grand Hyatt ICN review.
I have stayed in capsule hotels and it is a good experience if you are just looking for a place to sleep, the bathrooms are clean and have a separate toilet and shower, they also have a separate changing area and a locker where you keep your luggage. Although the capsule hotel where you will stay is a suite compared to most hotels of that type, which are smaller and have only one sleeping space.
JAL’s A350-900 domestic “Class J” is premium economy, not business class. You’ll be extremely disappointed thinking you’re flying business, since it doesn’t come with any lounge access or meal (unlike domestic First, which is totally a different league).
Agree, it's super close and convenient to ICN (actually walkable, but free shuttle if lazy). Globalist breakfast wast quite meh tho.
Another thumbs up for the Fairmont in the Vancouver airport. Nice rooms, decent restaurant.
The Grand Hyatt Incheon Airport was great overall. The beds were astonishing for their firmness, which may be reflecting the wishes of the Korean guests. We woke up at 4 am with jet lag and enjoyed coffee. No breakfast until a few hours later. First in line.
If Ben has barely six hours to rest while transiting at HND, then the capsule hotel is the best. Cabin, rather than a capsule, is a must, though. Showers and changing rooms are very clean. The sleeping area is a quiet zone: no alarm clocks, no loud talking, headphones are compulsory to listen to tv or music. Each cabin has a little "safety" slot to keep your valuables locked when going to the bathroom, for example. There is a common area to chain your oversized luggage safely overnight.
As an AS MVP 100k….not sure why you are so excited for the AS max9. It’s a new interior similar to the 320s and 321neos. Nothing new…..
Of course with a 900er you are more likely to land with all the doors still on the aircraft. ;). #toosoon?
For Vancouver, I'd suggest taking Canada Line subway to Yaletown-Roundhouse (less than 25 mins away). There is a nice boutique-style Hotel Opus across the street from the station exit. Yaletown is a great area for eating out and the neighborhood is worth exploring even for its waterfront stroll
Ok, it’s kinda a short layover, but i would strongly advise against the capsule… it’s just not worth it. You won’t properly “relax”
Instead book a real room at Park Royal Haneda. It’s located at the airport, accessible from the 3rd floor of Terminal 3, landside.
Fairmont at YVR like most Fairmonts is a bit expensive but great views over the aprons etc.
I'll spoil a bit of it: JAL's A350-1000 business class might be my favorite business class hard product out there. The suite is unbelievably spacious, and JAL nails little things like Bluetooth connectivity to the IFE. The soft product is absolutely top notch as well - they've got a dine on demand concept that works really well, the food is good, and the service is perfectly Japanese (which is a ringing endorsement).
That was my experience - international business class then the domestic 'business' class which is just a slightly bigger seat. In your opinion, are the domestic lounges worth the upgrade to first class though? They seemed quite small in Hiroshima where I took the flight.
Due to a typhoon in August, AA rebooked me on the JAL A350-1000 from JFK to HND. Definitely the best hard and soft business class product I’ve flown, in my opinion. Better than Qatar Q Suites and the other usually mentioned options. Unfortunately I still had to fly AA on the way back on an old 777. They had a Japanese food option which was pretty solid but the service was, as usual, horrendous with especially grouchy flight attendants.
Finally a direct competition between the 2 industry-leading staggered biz class products! Personally I prefer the Safran Unity overall, though Collins Aerospace Horizon's tray table is better designed.
It used to be that you could see availability and buy a same-day upgrade at the check-in kiosks when flying domestic on JAL, but now you either have to use their app or ask at the desk.
Availability is unlikely unless there is a sudden cancelation, but it doesn't hurt to ask because it's only about 70 bucks and you'll get a proper hot meal and champagne even though it's just a 90 minute domestic flight. It's on par with their international shorthaul business class.
Don't bother with the waiting list. They make the call at the gate ten minutes before boarding, so you can't enjoy the domestic first class lounge that way.
@ Jesse -- Thanks for this info! Just out of curiosity, do you have to ask at the check-in desks, or is there anywhere airside where the request could be made as well? I would assume that with oneworld Emerald status, I'd get access to that lounge anyway, right?
Oh, yes. Emerald members also get access to the first class lounge, so I guess that's a moot point.
JAL has desks for handling upgrades and rebooking airline, so you can go straight there and ask.
With Emerald status, you will get first priority for upgrades on the waiting list, but it is entirely first come first served among Emerald members (they assign waiting list numbers like S1 for first Emerald in line, S2 for second Emerald in line, and then on to A1 for Sapphire and so on).
On a popular route like Sapporo to Haneda, that list fills up fast, but they will call S1 and then quickly move on to S2 if S1 comes forward.
I have gotten upgrades at the gate just because I was the only one actually there when they made the call, but it was always the less popular Tokyo to Osaka route.
It's not automatic. You have to come forward and pay for the upgrade when called, but you can ask when and if they are making the call for your flight and they'll get the hint and let you know if you hang around.
The domestic first class lounges in Tokyo and Osaka are a lot more impressive, but I wouldn't upgrade just for that. There are more snacks (but no meals) and better booze than the Sakura lounges.
Just for the lounge purpose, not really. Domestic F pax get access to Diamond Premier Lounge also dedicated to OWE members (not available in Hiroshima though), but the food offering is quite poor compared to their international lounges, as they only serve onigiri and bread rolls for but they do have some decent selection of alcohol (at the HND lounge they served some premium Fuji single malt whiskey).
You can ask for an upgrade from 3 hours before departure. If you booked a cash or award domestic fare via JAL directly, you can request online or via the app. If you have an international connection or a partner award you have to go to an airport counter.
Sometimes it goes to a wait list, status and request order will decide. All JAL types of emerald will be ahead of partner emerald.
Sometimes it will be first come first serve, and you'll get to buy the upgrade when you ask.
And on that note, there are a number of free tours from ICN for layover passengers that visit sites around Incheon and Seoul.
Do yourself a favour and don't use the transfer hotel at Seoul airport. Very small rooms, small beds, stained carpets, not renovated for a long time.
The transfer hotel in Seoul often looks fully booked on the webpage, but if you actually call them they still have rooms.
However, as mentioned before, I would not recommend this place.
Too bad you don’t have more time, Conrad Tokyo is about 15 minutes by taxi. But probably not enough time for you to review the entire property and get any decent amount of rest. But I don’t think you’ve reviewed it, and it’s a great value use of Hilton certs.
I was looking at KE for USA-ICN-CTS, but it's annoying that most US arrivals cannot make the last ICN-CTS flight and require a long layover. I was happy when I found JFK-HND availability.
For ICN, perhaps do Paradise City and pretend you're on Single's Inferno. For anyone who's transiting and needs a cheaper option, I've stayed in Unseo when the transit hotels were closed for COVID. Right off the subway and less isolated than airport hotels.
Ben, Niseko reviews eventually in the cards in a couple years? Said you liked to see the Ritz and Park Hyatt, but looks like Aman, Hoshinoya, Six Senses, New World/Rosewood all planned for the area.
Thank you so much to share the married segments. I was trying to find awards for 4 back to US next summer for months. Successfully booked 4 award seats on JAL after seeing your post.
It is quite common to make to it through the waitlist, it is status and timing managed though. It depends a lot on the time of day. Morning and evening flights tend to be the more difficult ones, though Okinawa seems to be all day. But a middle of the day flight between Osaka and Haneda should have pretty good odds. Though ITM HND rarely goes via waitlist, so better be ready at the 3 hour mark.
I really like the Fairmont YVR. The views of the mountains and airfield are just incredible, and there's a Tim Hortons right outside the door. Also, you don't need to bother with getting into town.
True, walk from hotel reception to international check-in. Only hotel actually in YVR and some rooms (esp. north facing) have both spectacular views and excellent plane spotting opps. However there are four Fairmont Hotels in Vancouver. Far and away the best-rooms, service, bar, restaurants-is the Fairmont Pacific Rim. It's absolutely definitely worth a review. The Fairmont Waterfront is also quite nice, I would say it's the friendliest of the four, in fact there's usually a dog with the concierge ready to give guests a canine welcome. The old Fairmont Hotel Vancouver in the downtown core, despite refurbishment, can't escape having small rooms, smaller bathrooms, a rabbit warren of ballrooms and endless traffic outside. As a local who's stayed at all four I'd highly recommend the airport loc for convenience and, when I have an early morning flight, it's unbeatable. But as a hotel in the Fairmont stable, it's a C+ tops. As mentioned elsewhere, an Uber downtown can take the best part of an hour, but the (safe, clean, efficient, inexpensive) Skytrain, which leaves from YVR, goes to Waterfront station in about 20 minutes and the Pacific Rim and Waterfront are virtually across the street.
I hope KE doesn't swap the equipment, as the 781 is currently flying to a lot of destinations.. I'm really looking forward to your review bro.