Airplanes Get Second Flight Deck Barrier: Is It Necessary, Though?

Totally agree, there are far more important things for the FAA to focus on the passengers dont see than something highly visible but that provides little added safety improvement.

Sounds like security theater.

Good post.

Which of Trump’s buddies has the contract to manufacture these pointless doors?

Agree on both counts.

From terrorists maybe not. From the new crop of pilled out, methed out, drunken, mentally unbalanced, toddler like state of maturity passengers, yes.

@UncleRonnie

Oh dear. 'Someone' didn't read this Biden-era official announcement from the FAA (dated Wed. June 14th 2023)

Will 'someone' sheepishly retract that quip about Trump's buddies now they see who was actually pushing to make "...this rule a priority in 2021"?

[hint: it wasn't Trump. It was some shuffling old man fond of sniffing hair and eating ice cream and some random woman fond of cackling]

www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-requires-secondary-flight-deck-barrier

It would be more effective if the US transport ministry focused on dangerous passenger behaviour instead of an extremely unlikely terrorist event.

So this block access to the front restroom if they leave it in closed position. Airlines have continued to reduce the number of restrooms to add more seats.

Add Helios 522 to the list for an unintentional crash that _may_ have been averted if the cabin crew could have got into the flightdeck earlier.

Doesn't it seem like these could get in the way if an airplane needed to be evacuated? Even just if it came unlatched during a rough landing and then impeded people trying to get out through the forward door. I hope they did some testing of designs with that in mind. All in all, seems to add danger rather than subtract.

The antics with the trolley to block the toilet on US flights have gone on for years. Not being aware of it initially I ever walked up to use the toilet when the trolley was 'positioned' and the FA's eyes almost popped out. There was a bit of screaming as well.

With US airlines moving to narrow bodies even for transatlantic flights and a second barrier coming up toilet access for paying business class passengers will be gone.

Just another good reason for avoiding US airlines when flying to/from US.

George, from the description you posted, it would appear that you could well be addressing your concerns towards 90% of U.S. domestic passengers, yes?

How on earth was something that blocks an emergency exit approved? Must have been union lobbying so they can just lock passengers in the back while they play with their phones in the galley.

If adding a second barrier is such a great idea, why not add a third barrier too?

I am so sick of security theater (vs. real security).

I hope this nonsense will not be required by non US airlines..

I don’t understand these complaining comments. Did y’all just not read the article? The gate is only deployed when the pilot needs to use the bathroom or do a crew switch. That’s like 5 minutes of your precious “bathroom access.” But not even really because you already couldn’t access the bathroom when the pilot was in it.

As for it coming open unintentionally? Come on. You don’t think they thought of that? Galley carts have wheel locks, a metal bar lock, and a secondary one in case that fails. Can an FA screw up latching it? Yes, just like galley carts still crash down the aisle or emergency slides inflate in the jetway one out of every 10-50 million flights. The of the door unlatching during an emergency? C’mon.

The only thing dumber than these doors are the complaints y’all are making about them.

This barrier will contribute to even worse cabin service levels in US airlines, if that is even possible. FAs will just hide behind these barriers and ignore passengers inflight..

The country’s mindset changed so fast it changed mid-9/11

That frumpy WN FA is gross.

In theory the second barrier addresses the crew lockout scenario. When leaving the cockpit to take a leak, etc., the cockpit door can be left open while the second barrier is closed.

It is a dark comedy that since 9/11, the reinforced flight doors have killed more people than they've likely saved.

If anything, maybe we need to require that an FA be on the deck when the pilot/first officer is away?

Only if having the second barrier locked properly somehow disables the first.

Lucky, can you collect a list of airlines that has the two-people flight deck rule? I know for example, Singapore Airlines allows single person in the flight deck.

This is a way for there to be a private lavatory for pilots and crew. Also a way in some planes for the FAs to cage themselves in the galley so they can waste time and not serve passengers.

The all-mighty US/FAA might force all airlines flying to US, not just their own, to have these. Thus, effectively, every single airplane after the cut-off next year. On one side it eliminates the rolley blocking nonsense, on the other it even it likely will cut-down on available toilets for J as I can just imagine them blocking it for most of the flight out of convenience.

It's sort of weird to say that maybe reinforced flight deck doors aren't helpful because nobody has broken into a flight deck. This is like the old doctor joke: "Did you take all your medicine?" "Well, no, after a few days I felt better so I stopped."

Arguably the reinforced doors allowed those pilot-suicide tragedies. But it's impossible to know how many hijackings would have happened without them. Maybe none; maybe many.

wow, blocking the emergency exit for non pilot scum is a great idea

While I admit that I'm not particularly versed in the cost of manufacturing an airplane, from what was demonstrated I don't see how it would $35k!

“ Unlike other airlines, Southwest is immediately starting to use these new flight deck barriers, ”

Does this mean other airlines are taking delivery of planes with two sets of doors, but not using them?

So all of the world is going to have to suffer this crap just cos the US decision makers are morons?

Thats literally blocking an emergency exit, it allows the cabin crew to physically lock themselves off to prevent passengers from interrupting their chat time/going to ask for drinks/accessing the front toilet.. thats obscene.

theyll do it so they can avoid having to do their jobs

Let’s also ask how many attempts there have been to get into the cockpit?

Can't wait for some crazy person to come lock themselves up there.

United had secondary barriers on their 747s in form of a gate covering the full height of the cabin: about ten metal strings anchored in the wall on one side and a post on the other end that got affixed to the wall on the other side.

That was ~15 years ago already.

So instead of whining obnoxiously: what then what would you suggest as "real security," and how would you implement it?

If you can't figure out the (obvious) answer to both of those questions, then calling anyone else "morons" is a bit ironic.

They're not going to be used during takeoff nor landing, and likely will be stowed at any time the cockpit door is not opening in flight.

so is your existence

"The only thing dumber than these doors are the complaints y’all are making about them."

This!!

It's a common American tendency to respond to singular events with a broad-stroke approach, in the absence of a trend. Except for kids getting shot (the now-leading cause of death for minors in the US). Then we just offer thoughts and prayers but shucks, just can't come up with any ideas for a solution.

The solution is armed security - retired cops, military, etc. Lemme guess: “wait, no, anything but that!”

How’d armed cop on campus work out in Uvalvde and Florida?

Emergency exits are already blocked when FAs use galley carts to block the galley.

You could make the same argument about the galley carts. What if the brakes failed and now the carts started rolling all over the place and blocking emergency exit doors?

So I looked that up, and onecsource says 52 since 2001

It seems unnecessary paranoia to add another layer. Performative, like the ongoing liquid rules.

The risk of a suicidal cockpit crew or a medical emergency are far higher than "crazy person is able to crash through the reinforced door during the few moments it's open in-flight". I guess the slatted barrier looks more elegant than the catering cart some airlines use as a temporary barrier when pilots need the bathroom, but overall seems like misplaced priority (and therefore a distraction / unnecessary cost).

"To me, pilot mental health and one person in a flight deck presents a much bigger risk to aviation than the number of flight deck barriers there are. "

@Lucky... Exactly.

I am much more worried that flight crews could use this to stop passengers from fighting back.

Worldwide there has been 51 attempted hijackings since 9/11. Air rage incidents have increased since the pandemic and many involved charging toward the cockpit door. Pilots see the need for these doors. I trust their judgement.

Hi Jessica,

Can you please post some videos showing your full body so we can all give you some feedback? Preferably ones that were taken while you were minding your own business doing your job.

Lucky -- I've been a long time reader and even though I've never met you, I know you are a mensch. You couldn't fake it for this long day in day out. You deserve better than to have to deal with these miserable trolls. I realize you probably need to maintain a comment section for SEO and what not. That said, if there was a way I could read your blog without having to see this dreck at the bottom of every post, I'd do it in an instant. I'd happily pay for the privilege to never have to read what Jessica et al have to say.

If TSA screening was as shit-hot as the TSA would like everyone to think, this wouldn’t be necessary.

Zero, bit won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children?!

Fair go, you can’t expect them to actually provide customer service in addition to acting as hyper-vigilant safety and security Stasi.

In your own link, it mentions Trump's FAA Reauthorization Act. In 2018, the Act was passed, directing the FAA to issue an order requiring secondary cockpit barriers on new aircraft. The Biden Administration followed through with Trump's order

If the TSA or another security company could find weapons 100% of the time, we would be safer. Yet, it would be ignorant to assume weapons couldn't find a way on board

A perfect barrier for the FA's to use so they can hide to chit-chat and play on their smartphones.

I think that we should look at what other countries do and compare. I don't see such measures (even a reinforced door) on many foreign aircrafts. As someone else said that it is typically American to have one solution for all not considering the cost.

In the US, that’s the law. Other countries write there own rules.

Great. Another way for FAs to hide behind a barrier to avoid work while pilots lounge in the galley and socialize unendingly. What could possibly go wrong?

ALPA and AFA unions went all guns on this issue..years ago okay…today…whatever!! Fact is this is a mindset issue. Yes a locked barrier is the ultimate deterrent but readiness to attack the attackers along with the other flight deck contingencies now in place makes barriers redundant unnecessary costs for litttle return. More attention should be given to the insider threat of planted IED devices on aircraft.

Great. I’ll be more claustrophobic

@UncleRonnie

Oh dear. 'Someone' didn't read this Biden-era official announcement from the FAA (dated Wed. June 14th 2023)

Will 'someone' sheepishly retract that quip about Trump's buddies now they see who was actually pushing to make "...this rule a priority in 2021"?

[hint: it wasn't Trump. It was some shuffling old man fond of sniffing hair and eating ice cream and some random woman fond of cackling]

www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-requires-secondary-flight-deck-barrier

George, from the description you posted, it would appear that you could well be addressing your concerns towards 90% of U.S. domestic passengers, yes?

You could make the same argument about the galley carts. What if the brakes failed and now the carts started rolling all over the place and blocking emergency exit doors?

The all-mighty US/FAA might force all airlines flying to US, not just their own, to have these. Thus, effectively, every single airplane after the cut-off next year. On one side it eliminates the rolley blocking nonsense, on the other it even it likely will cut-down on available toilets for J as I can just imagine them blocking it for most of the flight out of convenience.

Emergency exits are already blocked when FAs use galley carts to block the galley.

I hope this nonsense will not be required by non US airlines..

So instead of whining obnoxiously: what then what would you suggest as "real security," and how would you implement it?

"The only thing dumber than these doors are the complaints y’all are making about them."

This!!

so is your existence

Hi Jessica,

Can you please post some videos showing your full body so we can all give you some feedback? Preferably ones that were taken while you were minding your own business doing your job.

Lucky -- I've been a long time reader and even though I've never met you, I know you are a mensch. You couldn't fake it for this long day in day out. You deserve better than to have to deal with these miserable trolls. I realize you probably need to maintain a comment section for SEO and what not. That said, if there was a way I could read your blog without having to see this dreck at the bottom of every post, I'd do it in an instant. I'd happily pay for the privilege to never have to read what Jessica et al have to say.

Only if having the second barrier locked properly somehow disables the first.

Only if having the second barrier locked properly somehow disables the first.