For years, Italy has been trying to privatize its struggling national carrier. This was the case when Alitalia existed, and it continued to be the case with the new version of the airline, ITA Airways.
Continue reading: Lufthansa Acquires 41% Stake In Italy’s ITA Airways: It’s A Done Deal!
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Seems a shame to immediately can Fabio Lazzerini, considering he's overseen the impressive turnaround and what is reportedly an excellent business class experience.
Fingers crossed we don't see LH homogenization come to ITA where they just slap their own colors on LH's business class.
I always hear the comments about Italy's inferior geography, and I'm unconvinced that it's any worse than Madrid or Helsinki which have huge connecting markets. In fact, if you're flying to the Middle East and North and sub saharan Africa, Italy's geography is great. Flight times to South America are comparable to any other European City, maybe a bit less. It's the work culture and government interference in Italy that is the biggest challenge for an airline to make a profit, and from what I can see, both of these are improving.
Hopefully the Air Dolomiti brand is killed ASAP and the operations are folded into ITA as it goes into Star Alliance.
Speaking of which, does anyone know what's happening with the integration of Lufthansa City Airlines into the alliance? It's now quite common to be offered a LH ticket with LH codes on routes that had been LH operated until very recently and 0/4 flights eligible for *G benefits.
Plus FCO in particular is less likely than Central European hubs to experience severe weather.
It would be interesting to see whether they're planning any route optimisation between AZ and OS, which is currently serving lots of places in the Balkans.
first, DL and UA are comparable in size to the US; they have flip-flopped back in forth in size. I believe DL will retake the lead w/ schedule adds this summer.
AZ has not been a part of the AF/DLKL JV since when VS was added. AZ is still not a part of the Star JV so UA and AZ legally remain competitors.
For LH Group, they have more hubs to/from most countries than AF/KL Group so the battle is really about LH Group's domination extending beyond Central Europe and to southern Europe where AF is generally stronger.
and this deal is just part of a reshaping of alliances as well as consolidation in the European airline industry which is decades behind the US. Let's all check back in about 5 years and see where each of the big 3 Euro groups and their alliances - with US partners are - but I suspect there will be alot of "back and forth" in who gains what
While I appreciate the comedic value and truth to the statement about Italian labor relations, labor relations in Germany are no walk in the park! Get called into a works council meeting and you may wish you were in Italy...
ITA has been handing out Volare Executive like candy. So, it’s going to be a lot of new Senators.
Now, please ORD and E39, explain how would ITA turn into the best airline in the Europe as Lufthansa Group buys them and most importantly joins Star Alliance.
The ITA purchase allows Lufthansa Group to slice Europe right down the middle with Brussels, Swiss, Austrian, & Luft under one umbrella. Each have strong hub(s) with corresponding long distance service which complement the Luft Group.
The bigger question is can Lufthansa control a very temperamental Italian airline which Etihad failed to do in the 2010's. If so, gives leverage against IAG (SpeedBird & Iberia) and KLM-Air France. Looks like Europe has mimicked the North American model of the Big Three with competing LCC and ULCC carriers nipping at their heels.
JFKs new Terminal 6 will be full house with the addition of ITA which was a pretty much a given.
Just to keep everyone in the know on who'll be utilizing the new terminal:
-Lufthansa Group (Austrian, Brussels, ITA, Swiss)
-Condor
-CX
-ANA
-Norse
-Aer Lingus
-Air Canada
How do you define 'Southern Europe'? Lufthansa already owns Air Dolomiti and, together with OS, flies to a bunch of places in the region (e.g. TSR, SKG, AOI, SKP, VAR, SCQ) with no AFKL presence (perhaps some Transavia seasonal service or a TAROM codeshare if you're lucky).
Not as lame as you desperately trying to cancel me whenever I comment something.
Nice try though.
Better luck next time.
When considering geography for airlines, make sure you are looking at the world as a sphere because airlines fly great circle routings. More important when there isn't a blockade on Russian airspace.
@Ben - Any idea what this means for my ITA Volare Executive status, which I got through the status match you posted about several months ago? Am I going to have *A Gold?
If it's Star, I'll go far. If it's Sky, I'll probably die. Grow a pair and man up.
I remember when AF/KL was in the lead for this transaction, you said that AZ was the magical key that would open up Europe to DL. Not feeling the same way about this for UA, are you?
Cool, my first mention.
I mean, at least ITA no longer has to suffer in Skyteam. Gracious of LH to put them out of misery
Additionally, half of Scandinavia are also senators given the status match from SK
I think a key factor is going to harmonising the ITA fleet with that of other Lufthansa group carriers in order to be able to operate ITA long haul aircraft for other airlines in the group during the off season in Italy. So with that I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Lufthansa do away with the blue livery and replace the airlines long haul business class with a version of Allegris
I wish they would get on with it - just feels incredibly dragged out and slow. It be useful for us to get Star Alliance status too this year given some flights we have planned later in the year with some carriers belonging to them.
As far as customer experience is concerned (on the ground and in the air), everything Lufthansa touches turns to $h1t, unless you're flying first class. But even at that rarefied level it still compares poorly to all other first class products currently out there.
An earlier commenter asked the exact same question and Ben answered. Look below 🙂
I would not be too surprised to see LH sabotage ITA'S long haul business, and make out of it a feeder carrier for their own long-haul. Or, if they are mischievous enough, they could put ITA metal and crews to operate long-haul LH flights out of German airports, to arbitrage for lower cost structure and for possible aircraft swaps. Their A340S are gas guzzlers...
Nipping at heels is an odd way to categorise Ryanair, the continent's largest short haul carrier.
ITA is a more premium carrier than Lufthansa. I fear they will strip that away over time.
That would be a tragedy! The ITA 330 and 350 - 900 interiors are lovely and much nicer than Allegris. I think they'll leave them as they are. However I'd love to see the refund bun-fight if LH changes out an Allegris airframe (with the crazy price tap-dance for seats) with an ITA airframe at the last minute 🙂
What would happen to me as I am Senator (on Lufthansa) and Executive in the Vollare program. Will I get some kind of a status extension once the programs are merged?
Looks like I will have to find another way to keep my Sky Team Elite Plus status, but now I have a reason to use the Copa “trick” to retain the Miles and More / Star Alliance Gold status. Fun times…
No worries, according to ORD and E39, ITA will become the greatest it ever was.
The revolution will begin with ITA also adopting the Allegris fiasco.
Expect some A330neos without business class seats in future.
I wonder how much down the "pecking order" they'll put ITA under the LH Group.
LH and LX will definitely the top 2 with newest fleet, then IMO would place Austrian then potentially ITA then Brussels.
UA could get gates anywhere at JFK. The issue was slots for United and United wasn't willing to pay to regain JFK slots that United sold. Any slot is for sale with a price.
Maybe I missed this but I’m a little surprised to not see one key question addressed: will there be ITA codeshare with United?
Of course there is extensive codeshare with United and Lufthansa Group both selling on to the metal of partners via Lufthansa, Swiss, and Brussels….I think maybe not on Austrian.
I’m not sure if the deal has been fully closed. There is an article on Aerotelgraph (in German) that the EU has imposed two more conditions, one reinstating the feeder contract with Condor and second to review the existing JV with UA/AC. I also miss a clear confirmation by both LH or the Italian government on closing the deal ….
So maybe the last word hasn’t been spoken yet ….
Mason is 100% correct, it’s a new era for ITA now, starting with the delightful abandonment of skyteam: the worst alliance in the world
"Well, today is a huge day for European aviation. Lufthansa’s investment in ITA Airways has been completed, so ITA Airways is now officially a Lufthansa Group carrier!"
Ben says that like this is something to celebrate, but anyone who lives in Europe knows that it's terrible news when the LH Death Star swallows up any airline that serves your region.
They will probably match the very useful Volare Premium status (Sky Team Elite Plus) to the useless FTL one.
And how long before Spohr, out of sheer spite, replaces the beautiful Azurri livery with some awful Germanic beige/grey/brown combo. Everything about Lufthansa as an airline is designed to suck all the joy out of flying and squeeze pax till the pips squeak.
That’s true. AZ/IT contributed very little hence left out of the North Atlantic joint venture. Not sure why they bothered after KLM’s investment years ago that lost millions.
I don't think the news is that bad, there was no guarantee that AZ was going to be sustainable in its current form. If anything, it adds more capacity to LH and you'll be able to mix their flights with those of the rest of the group to benefit from times and/or fares that work for you.
The biggest airline in Italy is Ryanair, so I am not horribly worried about the effect on fares.
The privatisation of TAP is where the real risk to competition lies.
What makes this seem a little weird to me is that the Italian economy is collapsing way slower than the German economy is. Maybe this is a move of desperation ?
https://lufthansa.statusmatch.com/ - highest available is Senator for Volare Executive and Premium.
But almost a surprise they're offering anything!
Fuck this shit. I'm OUT ! I'm flying AF-KLM as a Milanese.
Avoid LHG, avoid FRA/MUC/FCO. Only fly AF via CDG and KL via AMS. Maybe IAG (esp BA via LHR).
Avoid ITA-Lufthansa like the plague. Horribly managed, arrogant, budget airline service at premium prices, terrible hubs in Frankfurt & Rome, woke. Disgusting ! THey lost billions and boycotted Malpensa. Alitalia could have been so much better. Instead, ti chose deliberately to fail so they deserve to fail along with Lufthansa. Spohr, Eberhart, & Ritter... you should "retire" from life!
It did not lose millions. It lost billions later. Malpensa is the perfect place to build a hub (even LH execs admitted this) but they insisted on Rome Fiumicino (horrible choice). Alitalia-KLM could have been better than Air France-KLM.
Italian airlines are not "temperamental". Not even the Italian people are. It's like saying that American, Delta, and United are fat and loud. Shove your stereotypes up your fat arse !
The hub should've been MXP. Central Europe. Successful airport and rich catchment area. But of course it is a huge threat to the tuders and romans.
Italy is not all "Southern Europe".
Rome has bad geography except for Africa.
Madrid is superior than Rome for LATAM and Morocco, Athens for the Mideast, Helsinki for Asia.
Milan is Central-Western Europe and has the best geography. Rich market, year round business traffic, high spending leisure and fashion traffic, MICE traffic, lakes & mountains tourism. Malpensa is the perfect hub.