What's Up With The Ski Industry Right Now?

I'm sure this is helpful for slope enthusiasts. To me, reading this brings up my normal feelings from skiing: It's *exhausting*. Tons of time, money, and effort for very tiny morsels of adrenaline rush. To each their own, of course. I'm sure the investment is easier to mentally "amortize" if you ski frequently and/or BYO gear.

We had a VRBO at Copper, the unit owner was very cooperative and authorized a full refund. VRBO took about 2 week (showed up while I was typing this) to refund. As for Copper, we had three 4 packs and Woodward package, none of which were utilized. Contacted Copper they said they are still working on a plan, but our neighbors with the same package got a refund so we shall see. I am really hoping Copper does us right.

It’s frustrating that Ikon hasn’t provided any updates in a month. At a minimum, they should offer some kind of assurance that if days are cancelled next season, they’ll provide some sort of refund of unused pass value. Squaw has done this in the past in the context of bad snow seasons. Second, they should offer to rollover unused value from current passes toward next year. It’s annoying they haven’t even changed their 20-21 marketing posted in early March

I am so glad I was able to get my trips in before this mess happened. I don't like skiing during spring break anyway just because it's so much more crowded. My ski club decided to cancel its spring break trip just a few days before it was due to leave which turned out to be a good thing because the resorts shut down the Sunday 3/15 after the club was due to arrive on Saturday the 14th. Our club is working with the resort and for us it will work well just to book same time next year so that makes it simpler I hope.

Love the photo of Lone Peak! Big Sky is one of my happy places.

Sadly I didn't lean how to ski until mid 20s or so and it wasn't until 30s before I ventured out west. Then I had a good 15 trips exploring Utah, Colorado, Idaho, ,Montana and Nevada. I sucked at skiing but didn't get hurt or fall much and the scenary made all of the hassles worth it. Probably the only time I could forget about work and other stuff since I was enjoying the scenery and worried about getting hurt.

This does go back to the fact that once you give someone money, you've lost leverage and are hoping/counting on written guarantees or good faith. I'm always surprised how trusting people are with prepaying stuff, giving account information to places like Venmo, auto billing, etc.

You should minimize that as much as possible since when things go wrong it is a painful process. Just try calling an airline or a bank right now. I saw someone on hold for 5 hours trying to deal with Chase.

If you look at a map showing per capita cases of COVID-19, you can very clearly make out the major ski areas in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, even New Mexico. Pretty interesting how well it spread through ski resorts.

As a season pass holder, I am not sure I need any adjustment. In theory, the season was shortened by a few weeks and if I had one last big trip planned maybe I'd be annoyed and others could be, but I expect many season pass holders got a lot of days in earlier in the year.

I am not holding my breath re: 2019-20 Ikon or Epic passes. I will be pleasantly surprised if they do anything, even just credit or a renewal discount than usual.

My Trip to the Schatzalp in Davos, Switzerland (really nice old school hotel with a small private ski resort) was cancelled by the tour operator without even asking them when the COVID situation escalated in Switzerland (2 days before leaving for that trip, but not from far). All the money was promptly wired back to my bank account. In the meantime we're allowed to travel uphill alone or with persons from the same household again here in Tirol, so I've been skinning each day since the start of the week.

season pass holders need to get over it. a few years ago we had a terrible snow season, limited terrain into Jan and then (Sundance) our typical ~Apr 1 closure date. This is no different, get over it.

Robert is exactly right. As season pass holders, we understand that it's a seasonal and variable activity. Sometimes you get a December-May season, sometimes it's shorter. One year my local mountain didn't even open due to lack of snow. That's nature, skiers deal, and get out our mountain bikes if the skiing isn't good.

"That said, if you had a trip planned to, say, Crested Butte or Mammoth, there isn’t a Hyatt or Marriott to be found."

The Westin Monache Resort is literally ski-in, ski-out at Mammoth.

I have both Ikon and Epic passes, and I do not need nor do I expect a refund. I got 10 days on my Ikon Pass and 6 days on my Epic. I think refunds should only be a question for those who have 3 or fewer days used. They do track how many days each passholder uses.

Echo the VRBO comment above. So many slopeside houses and condos are VRBO. Mine was great - gave a 75% refund and is keeping my 25% deposit towards a future rental. I think this was fair since I plan to be back for the next season.

You know the airline industry is dead when OMAAT has to talk about.........skiing(!!)

What next? Kayaking? Morris dancing? Knitting? Tai chi?

So my ski resort of choice is telluride but sadly did not get to go this season. I am actually Australian and our season begins early June. The ski resorts don’t seem to know what to do. I suspect the entire season will be scrapped. Will be interesting to see (1)what happens to season pass holders (mine is part of epic passes) (2) resort entry fees (3)prepaid ski lessons for private or group and (4) accommodation.

Alterra and Vail will want to avoid any type of situation where they have to offer cash back on 19-20 season passes. Their cash flow is being hit on three fronts.
They have lost the last 4-6 weeks of the ski season
they very well could lose a majority of their summer biking and lodging business as well. regardless bookings would have frozen after 3/15 further cutting off a source of incoming revenue from summer business.
Additionally most folks that would be buying the 20-21pass who collectively would be loaning the resorts hundreds of millions of dollars for six months will either be in a wait and see situation or have financial concerns holding them back.

Unless they have massive reserves and see it as a way to maintain loyalty it would be risky to refund season pass holders in cash.

They could offer items that do not require them taking a direct hit this spring such as making renewals much more tempting.
offering extra days on new passes
reducing blackout periods
add more independent mountains to their passes
Offer two free lift tickets for next year for the person who might not be in the position to renew.

@Mitch Cumstein - Yep, my bad. I actually meant to update this before publishing and completely blanked. Thanks.

I called Brighton Resort and they had the refund in my account in less than a week. Super easy process with them, spent less than 5 minutes on the phone.

I skied 32 days this year. No need for a refund on a season pass. Season was a little shorter this year and it really wasn't very good in Tahoe. It figures most of the snow hit after the resorts closed. That's life and Mother Nature.
I signed up for my 20/21 pass already. Praying for a good snow year

See you next year

Hi from Tahoe,

Hopefully everyone will also think about how many people work in the ski industry who have been laid off or outright fired. They are severely hurting right now. There is plenty of snow up here and no business.

I saw a guy asleep in a mound of snow next to a bush near the Truckee Safeway this morning. Some people are living out of their cars. Some people are going hungry.

Thanks for thinking about these folks.

I accidentally booked insurance on my Vail Epic pass, so have initiated a refund claim request due to the reasons offered in the claim process. When I first originated it, it asked if it was due to COVID-19 which I indicated it was, then they asked me to substantiate my claim by providing information than there was indeed an issue that prevented our ability to ski (well, you closed the mountain) and the day later the Gov announced the rest of the mountains should close. I’ve had response from the adjuster saying that it will take longer than normal. It’s been 2 weeks and still nothing.

The Canadian dollar has taken a massive hit because of Covid-19 so skiing will be really cheap next season. Whistler in BC has some of the best slopes in the world. The Westin Whistler Resort is right at the base of the lifts and the gondolas pass right by my hotel window. All the major chains have resorts as well. With the $US at $1.46 Cad your money will go a long way over the next few years when the border reopens.

I sure feel bad for the workers in the ski industry, especially those in the smaller mountain towns with nowhere to go.

@John... I agree.
I can ski.
But have never heard of this Alterra company before.... what's next?

We traveled to Tremblant to Ski in March. When we arrived, it had closed that day due to Covid-19. Our ski school booking direct with Tremblant was refunded, as was all the lift tickets arranged with our travel companions. Our AirBNB was also offered as a 100% refund.

The tickets we booked via Liftopia were a bigger challenge. We booked 4 day lift tickets for 3 people via liftopia for Tremblant. After a week or more of calls and emails back and forth with Liftopia, they refused to offer any refund on the lift tickets, which were about $700K Canadian. Instead they offered credits for future lift tickets. Their comments around aligning their refund policies with the individual resorts is not true, as Tremblant were offering 100% refunds directly to their customers. All in all, not a great experience with Liftopia, who are now holding our money as a credit, which I consider as an interest free loan we have involuntarily provided them. Beyond trying to use our credit a some later date, we will never use Liftopia again. Terrible customer service in light of unprecedented times with Covid-19.

Michael, did you fly or drive to Tremblant? Did you just return home the next day??

Skiing is another form of legalized gambling. You put money down and hope for good luck. We live in Mammoth Lakes with both Alterra and Epic passes. Our town is dead and the workforce struggling. Everyone should expect to feel at least some financial pain from this pandemic, but the seasonal workers and small businesses will bear the brunt of it.

Does it really make sense to reward Vail by purchasing a 2020-21 Epic ski pass when they have so far refused to refund or even extend pass products from the current season?

I purchased 4-day passes for my entire family to use during spring break, but all the resorts were closed by mid-March. This makes me reluctant to trust Vail Resorts with any advance payments (and no, pass insurance doesn't cover pandemics).

what's happening in South America? Opening in June? Aloha

Hello from small Czech mountain resort Rokytnice, I love skiing, now I should have been skiing with my family in Italian glacier area Solda, but never think about any refunds. There are more important things to tdo, anyway In Czech we are buying virtual seats to support are soccer clubs we love and I bought the season ticket for my local skiing area couple of days ago. Wish you the best, take care.

Ditto Boraxo! I was disgusted after reading the first email from Vail re: Epic passes. They emphasized their no refund policy. Okay, I get that. I fully accept and understand a no refund policy. But no refund would be if it were ME that decided not to ski the rest of the season. NOT because they closed the services through no fault of mine.
Yes, I was able to break even on the cost of the pass, but look at the time line please. For California resorts we had a terrible January and February snow fall. Which meant that the last ski trip for me was slushy. Then it dumped. Almost six feet in less that three days and that was early March. And it kept snowing and as I write this, still over ten feet of snow on my favorite slopes.
So YES, I would have been able to nearly double my ski trips, but no, closed and stay home.
I'm not asking for a refund. But Vail must do something for their season pass holders such as an incentive for us to take that gamble with them ever again. Even a 10% discount across the board for 2019-2020 pass holders would show a good faith effort.

My friends and I had a trip planned to ski the Powder Highway in BC, March 16 - March 31. We canceled on March 12. All flights and hotels were fully refunded to us. However, we had purchased Mountain Collective passes for the days at Banff, Revelstoke and Lake Louise. When we contacted them regarding a possible refund or credit for next year passes that flatly said, NO. Guess which pass the four of us will never buy again?

I live in Boston and enjoy skiing with my kids.
This year we had Ikon passes, we alternate between epic + mountain collective and Ikon each has +/-. The season was cut short, thus we missed our usual march and April trips. (we lost out on about 40% of our planned ski season) Ikon has yet to make this right. To date they haven't offered any refund for the premature closure. In there FAQ- they referred us to the insurance company but don't specify what expected result would be. As a loyal customer I expect Ikon to own this! Alternatively, if they claim its an insurance matter then as the company that referred the customer to the insurance company I expect them to negotiate a reasonable compensation.
I'm currently waiting for response.
I renewed early prior to cancelation of 19-20 ski season so that this wasn't in my decision tree as a remote possibility for the 20-21 season.
Today, Ikon offered a $200 early bird discount for purchasing 20-21 passes but haven't clarified what happens if there is a short or limited season do to Cover-19.
Additionally they have worsened the terms for unlimited Ikon pass members at their premier resorts: Aspen and Jackson hole (they lost whistler in 19/20 season).
The major airlines, hotels etc.. are selling fully refundable tickets for next winter. My auto insurance has refunded part of my premium since we are driving much less.
I understand that the ski areas are under pressure but so is the rest of America. It's time to do the 'right thing'.
I'll update you when I find out.
Thanks

Agreed that it’s disingenuous of Ikon to refer to pass insurance that only covers individual medical issues, not pandemics. However, this underscores that season passes are not a good fit for folks taking one or two concentrated trips per year.

I’m glad that they discounted pass further and extended pre-sale period, but I expect their sales will be very low unless they provide some assurance about the scenario where Covid closes resorts next season.

Not skiing because of bad weather and Highwinds is one thing, closing a hill for a pandemic is another.

Whistler Blackcomb staff sold us a 5 day epic pass for our March break. We showed up the day before they close the hill. They have our money, they have not provided the possibility to use the service we paid for. This essentially is theft or fraud.

We have a tremblant pass, I have used it plenty, although it is frustrating not to ski because the hill is still completely covered in snow, we have gotten our money’s worth this year. They are offering a discount for next year, I’m fine with that.

We once had a ski week in Fernie, it rained for six days, no skiing. Great cocktails, good fun and it is like gambling. A pandemic is not a rainstorm.

Airbnb, Alamo, and the WestJet were super helpful, quick to respond and fair. That Vail would refuse to refund a pass that we could never use, and still couldn’t use because you can’t fly anywhere, is not OK.

These are not normal times, closing the ski hills was certainly the right thing to do. So is refunding your present and possibly future clients.