Review: KLM Business Class 777 Singapore To Bali

You should try to get on one of their new 787s - with the new Zodiac seats, it's an improved hard product. I'd be curious to see your comparison of the two. KLM must be working on their in-flight service, as I can say from the experience of living in NL, the Dutch aren't exactly renowned for attentive customer service.

Isn't half of KLM's fleet still operating with angled seats in business class? I tried to book a Taipei flight with them, but all the possible return dates were just angled seats. On a 14 hour flight. I don't think so.

And this "new" product, 2-2-2 in business? If this were British Airways, wouldn't we be slagging them off about now?

I do actually use KLM from time to time. They're fine for short haul around Europe. But their longhaul product hasn't kept up with the market.

Lucky two quick typos: when describing the dessert you meant means instead of mans, and also 3rd to last pragragraph first sentence you need a adjective to describe the turbulence (I assume rough)

@Paul: All of the Boeing longhaul fleet now has been updated, the Airbus fleet is partly phased out, the remaining will be updated in 2018.

https://insideflyer.nl/entire-klm-boeing-fleet-fitted-with-full-flat-seat-wbc/

Did you just call a SIN-DPS $250 ticket "cheap"?

Really?

You are aware that you can get a typical SIN-DPS ticket for around $60 right?

Don't call something expensive as cheap. Report accurately, that you got a premium product at 5 times the going rate for that route.

@B Hard to compare a $60 Air Asia/Jetstar economy flight to KLM business class. $250 for any business flight is pretty damn cheap.

@Paul 2-2-2 in business would be a huge improvement for BA....

Pretty sure that BA and UA's 2-4-2 biz config is the worse lie-flat product out there. I'm glad UA is doing something about it. I wish BA would come out with a new product, maybe Apex suites. JAL's got those on their 77Ws 2-3-2

@B: On which carrier can you purchase a business class ticket for $60?

@ Lucky: Do the bulkhead business class seats have full width footwells?

I have flown several KLM long haul and short haul flights and I have found their crew consistently polished, warm and engaging. I love the Dutch personality anyway and really enjoy my flights on KLM.

I'm sorry but this is a horrible business-class product. KLM simply isn't competitive without direct-aisle 1x2x1 seats. Why on earth they didn't install the same seats as Air France is beyond me. Even Alitalia has a better product.

Bali is great place to get married. Congrats.

How do you address a gay couple?
Is it Mr and Mrs lucky or Mr and Mr lucky?

@David W, I doubt British Airways, as we know it, will be in business much longer. They're basically Diet Ryan Air now.

Great Report!
It's almost as good as Cathay's long haul First!!!!

Are u guys getting married in Bali????
Congrats!!!! Sooo Romantic!!!
Mike Jagger & Jerry Hall married there too!

Farah Quinn is Indonesia's celebrity chef (kind of like the Indonesian Giada from Food Network). Back in 2013 she partnered with AirAsia to create some special inflight meals. I did not expect her to partner with KLM, but good that Indonesian food is served in flights to Bali 🙂

What I don't understand is why her name is included in every single dish, and the English translation from the Indonesian dish names are quite terrible (a lot of redundant nouns).

KLM bahhh, Im not flying them anytime soon. In any class. I have given then enough chanses. Ill rather walk.

$250 for a three hour flight in lie flat seats is pretty great. In the USA I can't get a $250 one way three hour flight even in cattle class.

I didn't realize you get one of those Delft dutch houses on this flight.

@David W
"2-2-2 in business would be a huge improvement for BA"

No it wouldn't. You'd still have no direct aisle access from every seat, but you'd lose the advantages of the ying-yang layout - *much* more footroom, and, especially in window seats, a *huge* amount more privacy. I don't want to be constantly distracted by my seat mate's tv screen. In fact, I don't want a seat mate period.

This is not to argue that BA is the gold standard: obviously, very far from it. But:
1) every single longhaul seat is a lie-flat bed, whereas with KLM (and most of the US legacy carriers) it's a gamble - will I just get a scummy old angled seat rather than the brilliant new product? Do I feel, er, Lucky?
2) I dislike seats which "fold over" for the bed because I often want a mid-way position between seated and fully-flat, and I don't want to stand there like a prune at the mercy of the crew "making my bed" for me - how old am I, five? I realise some people like the personal attention, but I don't. So layouts like Virgin Atlantic's are also a fail for me.

If you take Lucky's oft-stated maxim, that business class is all about the hard product, KLM is doing a pretty crappy job. My experience of their soft product is actually rather good (I like the Dutch matter-of-factness, I don't like people kneeling at my side or putting my slippers on).

And that's all before we see what Qatar is going to thrill us with later today...

Incidentally, the commenter who thinks BA is going bust in bonkers: it's currently one of the most profitable longhaul carriers around and, unlike every US legacy carrier, it hasn't had to be rescued and receive a massive state subsidy by going through bankruptcy. It mercilessly exploits its dominance at Heathrow and its near-total capture of the UK longhaul market. But its management is sufficiently savvy to have turned Iberia into profit (and to have nicely modernised it), while doing something similar with Aer Lingus. It's not my favourite airline - not by a long way - but to hate it for the wrong reasons is crazy.

Is the marriage quote guy correct? If so I must've missed an earlier post, congratulations. Bali is an awesome spot.

I like those big Dutch girls...very efficient, invariably friendly and polite...pity about the lousy seats.

@Lucky/Ben
Just curious, what lounge did you use in Singapore? Was it the lounge affiliated with the KLM flight or was it another lounge that you have access?

@ SullyofDoha -- They use the Dnata Lounge, though I ended up just hanging around the airport, given how nice it is.

A few things:

1) My biggest pet peeve about the standard B/E Diamond (not the heavily modified one United did with Pentagram that is much better ergonomically, even if it is dense) is that awful location for the plug and headset jacks. It is so easy to pull out the headset, especially earbuds, just by shifting a bit. It is also a real stretch to plug things in when buckled in. The privacy screens are a nice touch, however.

2) Good to hear the food and service were good, but that drink selection is really poor. While not the infamous China Southern Vin Mousseux, that Nicolas Feuillatte is pretty awful. The wines are nothing special, and no French, SA or NZ sauvignon blanc.

"How do you address a gay couple?
Is it Mr and Mrs lucky or Mr and Mr lucky?"

Messers Lucky sounds about right. Congrats!

I used to fly KL in the 1990s because they flew nonstop from AMS to where I was going. They no longer do so I stopped, and I am glad of it. Between the neckbreaker J seats (now gone), the borderline rude FAs (they were only friendly with Dutch speakers) and the heavy-gravy food, I have awful memories.

@Paul. There is no real hit or miss with KLM seats if you know the fleet. There are 28 777 and 8 787 in the fleet all with lie flat. The rest is made up of 13 A330-300 & 200's with sloped seats or almost flat 175 degree pod seats in PH-A0M & PH-AON.

5 of those A330 will leave the fleet soon as their leases are up, this leaves only 8 aircraft or 18% of fleet with older type seats. These 8 will start being refurbished this month.

@majik
You completely misunderstand how "normal" paying punters operate. Those of us who fly for business are working to a schedule. We're not designing our travels around the rostering of particular aircraft in a fleet (though even if we were, there is still the problem of last-minute equipment swaps).

So, we have the meeting we need to go to, and we look up the flights. The example I gave - a Europe-Taiwan round trip - was real; the outbound flights all had KLM's decent new product; but every possible return flight (for my business schedule) was rostered with angled seats.

In avgeek world that doesn't matter; I can go another route, or replan my trip. In the world of business, where people are paying for their tickets, that is a deal-breaker.

Non-avgeek punters want consistency of product (isn't that what a brand is supposed to promise?). It doesn't matter how brilliant the product is on the best of the fleet; I want to know how crappy the product is on the worst. Much as most avgeeks seem to hate them, that's where BA scores: every single longhaul plane offers exactly the same product (whether you like it or not). No guesswork. No nasty surprises when you turn up exhausted at the airport and just want some kip before you finally get home.

Hi Lucky, just want to explain the dishes you had back there.

Like one post said, Farah Quinn is one of Indonesian celebrity chefs. Her menu on KLM is available to/from Indonesia (CGK, DPS).

"Ikan cod pepes" simply means cod fish simmered in variety of herbs and then steamed. "Acar" means pickle.
"Bolu srikaya" means sponge cake with sugar-apple fruit flavor.

Next time why don't you just google something you don't know instead of saying what some might view as culturally insensitive and others might view as lazy and stupid, "whatever that is".

@Blank

“whatever that is”.

Kind of hard to look up something on an KLM airplane with no wifi.

I have a pet hate with airlines using fancy/local name for food when flying.

While it might come across as culturally insensitive to Google it afterward for a review, it still doesn't change the fact that airlines might as well call it mystery fish dish and you would be just as wise when on-board the aircraft.

You can't expect every traveler out there to know the local name of every food dish in the world.

*to not Google it afterward

@Paul

Fully agree that consistency across a hard product is better for customers, but according to your reasoning you'd never fly an airline that is in the midst of updating their business class product? If an airline wants to keep up with the market they'll need to update their product once in a while and that simply doesnt happen in the blink of an eye.

It's a bit odd to critize an airline on the one hand for having an 'out of date' product, while simultanuasly critizing them for not providing consistency when they're in the midst of updating this very same product? You cant have your cake and eat it too..

I guess you were out of luck with your return flight from Taipei, but the vast majority of the fleet (747, 777, 787) has a solid, lie-flat hard product in business class. I must admit I like KLM's service a lot, it's one of the few airlines wher flight attendants seem to actually have fun at their jobs....

the food presentation needs lotsa work. it looks like gravy shlopp--akin to an american airlines poor quality food products throughout the classes. is klm now owed by americans?

@lucky

KLM's Business Class seats on the 787 are definitely more modern than the 777 or 747(touchscreen IFE remotes and more storage space) but they are way tighter. Although the cool thing about the 787 is the privacy and all seats have direct aisle access. Never fly KLM late in the night though because their meal service is mediocre at most! Though, they have upgraded the food a lot at the KLM Crown Lounge in Amsterdam, sadly you won't see anymore stroopwafels there.

My email to KLM after they lost my luggage on both segments on my return flight. Bad luck, but what made it worse was how it was handled.

The Story:
I’m based in Bali Indonesia and am going on a work trip to Colombia via Paris and Amsterdam. I booked a return ticket from Paris to Cartagena Colombia in Business Class. The plan is to be in Cartagena for 9 days only including arrival and departure date. My booking was made through the KLM website.

Upon leaving from Paris (AF) to Amsterdam (whereby I will embark on KLM to Colombia), there had been a weather issue at Schipol and therefore my flight from Paris to Amsterdam was cancelled. This was only discovered after checking in and 10 minutes before scheduled boarding time. Obviously this meant that my connecting flight to Cartagena would be missed. After a 3 hour fiasco at CDG airport, I was rerouted to Frankfurt on Lufthansa, however before I had to check into my Lufthansa flight I had to ‘recollect’ my checked in luggage. My checked in luggage never arrived and thus I had to travel to Colombia without it.

After being in Cartagena for 4 days my luggage had not arrived and what made it worse was that there was no customer service contact on the estimate date/time my bag would reach, I had to do the following up otherwise there would be no news whatsoever, furthermore when it finally arrived, I was not made aware of this, it was lucky that I had called the airport directly to ask them if my bag was there or not. When they told me it had arrived the night before I was rather disappointed as I was promised that my bag would be delivered at the hotel. I took the personal initiative to go to the airport to collect my bag, since the service had been near to non existent before then. Evidently I had to purchase the necessities (business apparel and toiletries) during the days of absence and hence, besides being an inconvenience it also became a cost.

Unfortunately the story gets worse believe it or not. On my return back from Colombia (Cartagena) to Paris Via Amsterdam. I had discovered that my luggage was missing once again. Besides the obvious frustration, what made matters worse was that I had a flight back to Indonesia 2 days later. At the point of discovery, I felt confident that my luggage would actually turn up given the frequency of flights between Amsterdam and Paris. The 3 days had passed and nothing had arrived, the customer service was incredibly dismissive and the furthest thing from helpful. All that they could do is ‘send messages’ to the lost baggage department, nothing else that could be considered as merely proactive (I kept on suggesting a simple phone call to the lost luggage department but that seemed to be out of protocol). I had to call multiple times, be kept on hold for extended periods of time and be given no useful information on the basic ‘where and when’. Eventually I left and went back to Bali Indonesia and until today there has not been one bit of follow up on behalf of KLM. I’m desperately trying to call whoever and make contact through digital platforms, up until this minute I have received one email saying sorry and asking for receipts for compensation of clothing etc etc. and no further information on the whereabouts of my bag; the second communication was through messenger stating my luggage is now in Sao Paolo. The word disappointment is an understatement. I have never in my life of travel encountered such lack of care and negligence.

To Recap:

Rerouted on Lufthansa
Lost bag on the way to destination
No service of contact or delivery of bag + Delayed (18th to 21st September)
No compensation
Lost Bag on return trip
Bag can’t be delivered from Amsterdam to Paris (2 nights/3 days) (29th of September … Still no bag)
No contact, no follow up.
There is not much more I can say as I’m in disbelief that this stuff actually happens in this day in age. I’m not sure what will come of this email, but you should definitely be aware of this. I for one am traumatized to ever use KLM again.

The latest update based on KLM's response. Perhaps the airline has a decent hard product. But there service is rather shocking. Raising awareness by doing so.

Dear Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for your reply.
In handling customers’ requests, KLM aims at harmonising the assessment of all claims in order to be consistent and fair to all passengers, and I would like to assure you that no discourtesy was intended in our previous responses.
Kindly be advised that your flight KL2006 (operated by AF1340) departing from Paris to Amsterdam on 19 September 2017 was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions.
We understand how inconvenient delays can be, so we do all we can to limit them.
However, due to forces beyond our control, we will occasionally not be able to maintain the punctual and reliable scheduled service that we strive to warrant for our passengers.
In these situations, we do all we can to keep our passengers informed and help them arrive at their destinations as soon as possible by arranging alternative flights or making alternative travel plans.
I am very sorry to hear that the service you have received during the time of delay of not up to your satisfaction. We will share your comments with the ground handling team and the relevant departments to improve our services in the future.
Kindly be advised that we are still in the process of tracing your baggage to be delivered to your permanent address. I apologise once again for the inconvenience caused.
As advised previously, please reply to us via the above link with the relevant receipts of your incurred expenses, ensuring that the file is smaller than 2MB in size, for consideration of reimbursement.
Mr XXXXX, you have our assurance that we are well aware of our commitment to customer care. I will revert to you as soon as I receive your reply.

Regards,

Response:

Dear Mr XXXXX,

No Discourtesy? Did you read my previous email and learn what happened? Were you there on the phone listening to your customer handling agents? Were you with me during the whole process? How can you remotely claim something without being there. Your 10 day delay in my email response; does that show courtesy to someone who has lost their bag from KLM (whom you are employed by) whereby all their personal items at a value of over 4K USD? Where is the sense of urgency when a premium paying customer loses their bag both on the sectors of the flight. Does that define courtesy? Is this normal for you or are you defending the company without holding any accountability?

As further proof that you are really just writing an email out of duty rather than care, your email shows absolutely no awareness on the issue. After your very poor customer handling service person told me that my bag was in SAO PAOLO, i couldn't believe my what i read (I do have proof of this conversation btw if you require) How can someone be so off base. In desperation, I had my mother, who lives in France call another agent to discover it was in Bali already? I then went to the Airport, waited again, and finally received my luggage. Had i not taken this initiative, would i ever have been informed, you for one are far from being informed considering you are oblivious to its whereabouts. This is truly embarrassing. "Kindly be advised that we are still in the process of tracing your baggage to be delivered to your permanent address".

Now here is the interesting part; i received my bag with the lock completely undone and tampered with. I don't have any receipts with me, but i think it is logical for you to do the math and calculate what an average human being would have spent, never mind any form of compensation for this inconvenience. As i stated in my previous email, i spent money on toiletries and clothes (Casual and Business attire) while in Colombia. On the return, fortunately, i was in Paris for only 2 nights whereby i bought clothes for those 3 days. When in Bali, i returned home and had my own clothing and didn't need to purchase anything extra.

Anyhow it goes without saying that this experience has been an utter disappointment, and whether you care or not, flying KLM will definitely be my last choice despite the fact that i'm a flying blue member (whatever that means).

So is there any form of compensation for this inconvenience or have we hit a dead end? I anxiously await your reply, hopefully within a reasonable time frame.