In early 2022, Delta Air Lines started taking delivery of the Airbus A321neo. The airline has 189 of these jets on order, and so far, the airline has taken delivery of about half of those. For all practical purposes, these are Delta’s new ”flagship” standard domestic aircraft, featuring the newest cabin designs, and overall great…
Continue reading: Certification Woes: Delta A321neos With Flat Beds Now Delayed By Years (2028+)
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Premium my ass. This is embarrassing. They’re going to fall far behind United and even AMERICAN for gods sake with this. No one on a redeye wants to fly standard first class over a lie flat and their 767s and 757s are so woefully inadequate.
@ mark -- See this post for details:
https://onemileatatime.com/insights/aircraft-seat-certification-delays/
It was a given when the seat failed testing that it would be a couple years.
The narrowbody lie flat seat market is pretty new as the article notes.
It is also worth noting that DL is going for a product that will be far superior to waht AA and UA are installing on their 321NEOs. AA has some XLRs in service; UA has none in service yet.
DL's seat will be delayed a couple years at best compared to AA and UA's seat.
AA and UA's seat will be inferior to DL's the entire time the seat is in service - which is typically a 10 year replacement cycle.
At least this lines up with their installation timeline for Amazon WiFi. One might argue this is part of their premium strategy to keep aircraft in service with minimal downtime
What a disaster. I will give credit to Delta for having the best ground experience for premium transcon, so much so that United followed suit with marketing their flights as Polaris, but the hard product lags so much.
I'd much rather fly on UA/B6/AA metal for transcon than the ancient 763s and 757s. The only time Delta is worth flying premium transcon is if you can catch them on a widebody turn like an A330neo or 764 because otherwise, you're getting the worst experience out there.
Poor Tim, trying to explain how Delta screwed up again it's wifi and seats are utter crap!
Somehow Timmy will try to tell us how great this will be in 4 years
AA has been flying a reverse herringbone Safran seat for 13 years. This is not a new concept. You have your head so far up DL’s a** that you can’t accept they made a huge blunder here.
They’ll be flying subpar products on the 75/76 until 2030, or they’ll pivot to install the same A321 reverse herringbone seat that AA/UA were able to certify. The “Delta Difference” means they’re getting left behind this time.
It at least makes for a fun forces economics experiments. Can it fly delta one route (LAX/NYC) but only have PE as highest cabin? Are there non D1 domestic routes where they can actually fill FC? I'm sure there's some road warrior routes (NYC/ATL?) that can fill with corporate bookings
Do you work for United? Your input on Delta is consistently negative and not very articulate.
he was fired from UA and is now homeless at O'Hare
and he really can't afford his mental health meds now
That’s just pathetic!
DL messed up again, gimme some news…
Very premium of them, not just premium but a premium mess up
Those in charge of certification should at least tell delta the reason for the delay and possibly help delta make adjustments if needed.
Airline leadership focus is on circlejerking via ESG onanism.
They've forgotten who they work for and what their core mission is
Worse still, the new recliners have all the cushion of a park bench. Awful seats
There is nothing wrong with standing up and supporting your favorite airline.
Can you please stop with the insults? Joking about mental health is appalling.
@onemileatatime- there has to be a filter for this type of commentary.
Delta seems quite unique within the US with their supply chain issues.
They keep happening.
They had years to prep for the LATAM A350 delivery but still couldn't retrofit them for a few years now years of delayed seat certification.
Spectrum Boy doesn't have mental health issues. His condition accurately manifests in the 'DL' sycophancy as posted; been standard from DSM 3 to today's DSM 5.
Pretty sure this falls on the seat supplier since they can’t get the seat to pass a certain part of testing. Has nothing to do with Airbus or Delta. These were supposed to be flying a few years ago I believe. Surprised they didn’t change suppliers.
So, now Delta wants to emulate LH. Who would have thought copying LH was a good idea. But, since Delta is a premium airline, they would learn from LH.
I guess I have a pretty fatalistic view on life, but if the any plane is going to crash I would expect everyone to die anyway, whether these seats are certified or not by the relevant authorities. So to delay them for 3 years in IMHO ridiculous. Let's spend the money on upgrades to ATC and common sense.
I guess I have a pretty fatalistic view on life, but if the any plane is going to crash I would expect everyone to die anyway, whether these seats are certified or not by the relevant authorities. So to delay them for 3 years in IMHO ridiculous. Let's spend the money on upgrades to ATC and common sense.
This problem blew up years before Duffy took office. But hey, don't let facts and an actual timeline of events get in the way of your low-value post.
How is being on a domestic flight on an A320 built in 2000 different from a 757 built in 2000 Ben?
If one has lie-flat (some 752s with 2-2 up-front) and the other has recliners (a320), then lie-flat is clearly better.
In the mind of Tim Dunn:
‘Who run the world?’ Delta!’
‘Who run the world?’ Delta!’
‘Who run the world?’ Delta!’
In the mind of DCS:
‘Who run this motha? Hilton!’
‘Who run this motha? Hilton!’
‘Who run this motha? Hilton!’
seriously?
Delta took far more widebodies from Airbus than AA, AS, and UA combined while Boeing couldn't get its stuff together but Boeing isn't a supplier, according to you?
feel free to tell us how soon any airline could have ordered 9 shipsets for a complete cabin overhaul ON TOP OF new deliveries which far exceeded what AA, AS and UA put into service, Max.
You prove every day that you participate in aviation social media how big your axe is to grind and how badly how can't admit that no one else runs a business any better than DL.
in the minds of some people - perhaps including you, Stanley - it is ok to speak anything negative about Delta but if there is actual truth esp. that is positive, only a fanatical maniac would mention it.
Yes, it will take a couple more years for DL's new seat supplier to deliver what should have been delivered already but every airline has suffered from supply chain issues including Boeing, which DL largely avoided over the past 5 years plus while AA, UA and WN esp. have suffered tremendously from Boeing's problems.
And DL's new lie flat seat will be far better than AA or UA's. So, DL will fix this problem in a couple years but AA and UA's seats will be inferior to DL's for years after everyone stops talking about supply chain seat issues.
Well, unless you get unlucky enough to be on a United 777-200 with the 8-across business class. That's the worst lie-flat transcon in the sky.
Technology has now advanced to the point where it takes as long to develop and certify a seat as it took to develop and certify the 747. Progress indeed.
Ok folks! Will someone please help me out here?
Who is this “Tim Dunn” character?
I know that he is the butt of so many contributors jokes (including me now), but, who is the numpty behind the login name? Is it just a Delta Airlines stupid joke like that stupid “Air Lines” name?
Could it be a Ben-plant to generate more clicks? If it is Ben, then it is a brilliant ploy …. 🙂
Walter Dunn, you proclaim that “DL's new lie flat seat will be far better than AA or UA's”.
Ok! I will bite …. can you substantiate that claim with actual facts?
That being the case Jem, is there not a case for the aircraft manufacturers to submit seats for certification at the same time as the actual aircraft. Much like motor car manufacturers have to do?
Just a thought ….
Ok! Tim, you claim: “No one else runs a business any better than DL”.
That being the case, my simple question to you is: Why is Delta Airlines NOT the World’s Number One Airline?
No, Tim is way bigger than Ben (and OMAAT). He’s on all the sites. He’s just a Delta-fanatic. (Gene, who’s been around for far longer said Tim showed up during the pandemic.) Also, I’m just a guy who wants an EU/UK261-equivalent in the US. Not with anyone or anything.
is this your guest account or are you a registered user because your username most certainly is all over the web.
The only reason I participate in aviation social media is to correct inaccurate statements and to provide perspective that others seem to lack or be unable to see.
Yes, DL has certification issues w/ its D1 seat but it is beyond comprehension that people would throw dirt at DL over 7 A321NEOs when entire fleets of aircraft are grounded because of Pratt and Whitney engine problems and Boeing delivery delays and associated quality control issues.
Ben himself has provided info showing that DL's 321NEO D1 seats face the windows which is what he believes should be the case but AA and UA's 321NEO premiun cabin lie flat seats do not.
Thank you TD, you respond very much like a seasoned politician, gobbledygook upon gobbledygook, in an attempt to avoid answering simple questions from other contributors.
Ok! I will bite again …. can you substantiate your claims with actual facts?
Your credibility is seriously in doubt here and I feel that you are lining yourself up for even more ridicule by your tactics.
Thank you TD, you respond very much like a seasoned politician, gobbledygook upon gobbledygook, in an attempt to avoid answering simple questions from other contributors.
Ok! I will bite again …. can you substantiate your claims with actual facts?
Your credibility is seriously in doubt here and I feel that you are lining yourself up for even more ridicule by your tactics.
Jem, please ignore my post which was intended as a response to Walter Mittty Dunn.
Sincere apologies.
1990, thank you for your assistance with my lack of knowledge regarding Walter Mitty Dunn. I once felt sorry for him because I thought that he was being badly treated by some. Now I know better and can fully appreciate the attitude of many towards him.
Walter, blaming Ben, for your lack of knowledge is no excuse. Surely, any one who possesses even a basic knowledge of aviation will tell you that the lack a certification is all about passenger safety and vectors …. yes?
Aero, I like you, Tim, and anyone who’s willing to spend time on sites like these. Love for the game!
you went off the rails when I told you that you didn't know how to speak or write English - which is, of course, the ultimate insult for a Brit.
or was that your alter ego that doesn't bother to sign in under your official user name?
yes, 1990, it is the love of the game - and the occassional butt whooping.
Yesterday, you alluded to a someone’s mental health. That is not you standing up for DL values, profits or customer care. It was repulsive behavior.
Comments like that deserve no quarter.
So! Walter Mitty Dunn, has admitted to being a butt-licker …. 🙂
Walter, what you fail to grasp is that anyone who starts a sentence or a paragraph with a lower case letter, has lost all credibility when it comes to writing in English …. Yes?
However, you persist in cancelling the automatic keyboard command which applies English language rules for everyone’s convenience. What a childish trait you have cultivated in your ignorance …. Yes?
You will be astonished to learn that, as you put it; (I) “Went off the rails”, due to something which you might have posted, is nothing short of delusional thinking on your part. No Walter, if I really did as you imagine then you will be the first to experience the phenomenon. Until that situation arises you can continue to make yourself look and sound very foolish.
A most important thing that I have learned from reading your posts Walter, is that you know far less about civil aviation than you pretend. It is evident that you have never experienced a World Class Airline’s flight. Possibly, never travelled beyond your home county lines and never upon another airline other than Delta Airlines. In short Walter, you really do deserve the name Walter Mitty!
I luv you too 1990, are you trying to make it onto my Christmas Card list? …. 🙂
I, for one, are so pleased that you are enjoying the verbal intercourse Eskimo. Do you think that Walter is enjoying it too?
Can't they change their supplier now? Like how AA used 2 suppliers on 772 refurbs.
There is no such product as Delta wants that is available on the market today.
The whole point of the discussion is that other airlines, including American and United have seats that are facing toward the aisle while Delta wants seats that face towards the window. Delta will wait for the seat seats it wants
"Delta took far more widebodies from Airbus than AA, AS, and UA combined..."
Once again, you are using biased, filtered statistics (technically accurate, but intentionally conditional) to try to argue your point. Why mention only Airbus widebody deliveries? UA had no plans to take deliveries of their A350s on order over the last year, and both AA and AS have no Airbus widebody orders anyhow. You might as well have thrown Southwest, Allegiant, and Avelo into your comparison there. How's this for something similar? "American is flying more A321XLRs today than Delta, United, Southwest, Alaska, Frontier, JetBlue, Envoy, and Skywest have in their combined fleet!" Technically true - but ignores future and non-existent orders to sound more impressive.
Also - by only going with Airbus deliveries, you are excluding the 8 787s AA received, the 7 787s UA received, and the 2 787s AS received over the last 12 months. By the way, Delta took 7 widebodies from Airbus from the start of June, 2025, to date (4 A350s and 3 A330s). AA took more widebodies than Delta. That's a fact. And that's far different than the picture you're trying to paint, pretending Delta is dominating in widebody deliveries.
"...while Boeing couldn't get its stuff together but Boeing isn't a supplier, according to you?""
Boeing 787 deliveries:
2023: 73
2024: 51
2025: 88
So their deliveries have recovered from the issues experienced in 2024, and are now exceeding 2023 levels. And Boeing publicly stated they expect 787 deliveries to increase YOY for 2026. United said they expect to take 20 - TWENTY - 787s in 2026. How many widebodies does Delta expect to get this year?
More facts? This, according to Flightplan: "Widebody lead times reached a very healthy average of 23 days, which is a sharp decrease from previous months. This improvement is attributed to much stronger widebody production performance from both Boeing and Airbus after the programs had struggled earlier in the year. Furthermore, the bottleneck caused by stored inventory has largely dissipated as the remaining 787 inventory is now nearly cleared."
You need a new persona. The "Tim Dunn" name continues to lose all credibility. Make up another one and start over. Everyone sees through you when you post this garbage.
"...ON TOP OF new deliveries which far exceeded what AA, AS and UA put into service..."
Nope. American put 8 new widebody aircraft into service from the beginning of June, 2025, through today. United put 7 787s into service during the same period. Delta got 7 (four A350s and three A330s).
Wrong again, once the data is checked.
Tim Dunn is a frequent aviation-blog commenter, who behaves like paid employee of Delta and acts like a public relations specialist, who isn't very good at his job.
His common theme revolves around the following:
- Delta is the best airline on the planet
- Delta has, or will soon have, the best product
- Delta management is smarter than any other airline management team
His common target is United, although he is willing to criticize American on occasion. He frequently cites "facts" without actually providing facts. When challenged, he will quickly pivot, and not address the challenge, but will instead bring up other unrelated issues (baggage handling statistics is a current favorite).
Stick around. His entertainment value is as high as his credibility is low.
Delta has surprising difficulties with aircraft interiors. The Delta One Suite is only available on 80 of DL's 179 wide body aircraft and their hard product consistency is lacking with four different J seats: Safran Cirrus I: A332s & A333s , Thompson Vantage: B767s, Thompson Vantage XL: A339s, A350s, Thompson Aero Vantage NOVA?: A35Xs (2027?) 78Xs (2031): ?.
United has 82% more lie-flat seat/beds than DL and twice as many Economy Plus Int'l seats.
Sarah M says, "behaves like paid employee of Delta and acts like a public relations specialist, who isn't very good at his job."
When I first encountered little Tim Dunn (LTD) I thought he was either a Delta employee or paid by DL as a social media influencer. But after seeing the reactions to his never ending, irrational and biased posts I think Delta would pay LTD a small fortune to STOP posting. Too funny.
again, hyprocrisy to the core.
Polaris 2 or whatever it is called is available on, what 3, aircraft?
by your own admission, DL has Delta one suites on more than 40% of DL's fleet - but mental midgets like you show up thinking "your" airline is better off - when your idea of a good time is the most dense business class seat in the US industry.
You have precisely no clue about business class quality but have the unmitigated nerve to criticize someone that has figured out years ago what UA is just now beginning to figure out.
Tim you delusional choad - we all know you only fly DL so it’s funny that only yo are the arbiter of what a good J product is.
You might be the single most pathetic individual I have seen in 20 years across these blogs. I thought DCS was bad but he does teach at an Ivy League uni.
You, on the other hand, were fired by DL (after undoubtedly a mediocre “career”) but continually rise to their defense. Get a hobby and stop defending a corporation FFS you douche.
I only hold Ben accountable for letting Tim Dunn post twenty times anytime he is triggered by the word "Delta".
what I fly or not is not the issue.
the issue is simply whether an issue is factually discussed.
and you prove that you and others can't stand to factually discuss anything accurately so you resort to personal attacks.
It makes ZERO sense for someone to have been fired by a company and then for that person to supposedly become their #1 internet fan.
in fact, you and your ilk are the ones that can't stand to hear that DL reallly is doing as well as or better in an industry where you, not me, have your affections deeply ingrained to a huge corporation.
UA has scores of aircraft grounded right now for engine engines while DL has a much larger fleet of GTF powered aircraft and has managed to keep them flying at much higher rates.
UA suffered from years of Boeing delivery delays when DL received more widebodies from Airbus than AA, AS and UA combined from Boeing.
DL converted its A321NEO orders to standard domestic aircraft when its new D1 seat couldn't get certified and is flying SEVEN high domestic first class configured aircraft until a new, superior D1 seat to what AA and UA will fly is available.
Pathetic is people like you that can't stand facts esp. if it cuts off your hypocrisy and lies and deals with the actual facts that show that DL is no worse off than other airlines regarding the issues you love to discuss so you can try to throw crap at DL = only to find that other airlines do the very things you accuse DL of far worse.
YOU are the one that is to be pitied as you try to defend a company that repeatedly fails at its objectives.
you and others simply can't stand a factual discussion on the issues that are discussed includiing in this case that DL is handling supply chain issues as well or better than any other airline.
AA, AS, UA and WN have had scores of MAX aircraft grounded because of Boeing issues
B6, NK and UA have or had scores of aircraft grounded because of engine issues
DL converted SEVEN 321NEO aircraft to a high domestic first class configuration while it waits for its seat supplier to certify a seat that will be superior to anything AA, B6 or UA have or will fly on their premium transcon configured aircraft.
those are facts and you can't stand to hear that perspective.
If the Stelia Opera seats are already in service on A321NEOs w/ other airlines, how soon can Delta get them for their A321NEOs? They’re reverse herringbone, which Delta already planned for the transcon A321NEOs, and might be a good substitute for the Safran Vue seats.
I'm sure they would--if they had any clue he existed. He's only real talent is displaying weapons grade narcissism and arming their brand. Good thing he's irrelevant.