My goodness, some Delta Air Lines passengers departing Milan earlier today were in for a pretty rough ride, and the jet has some battle wounds to show for it…
Continue reading: Brutal: Delta Boeing 767 Gets Into Hail Storm, Severe Turbulence
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
" (coincidentally, this is the same jet that recently had a slide deploy in the cabin after a diversion)."
Plane obviously cursed.
Hard to believe there wasn't indication of hail before they flew into it - either from ATC or Italian meteorology or from radar onboard the aircraft.
There was a DL 747-400 that went through hail in China because ATC would not clear them to an alternate route and the aircraft was ultimately written off. Even though this wasn't on the list of 767-300ERs that were set to be retired by the end of next year, damage repairs might cost more than the 5-7 more years Delta might get out of the aircraft; the 767-300ER fleet will be gone by the end of the decade. Alot of damage can look worse on the surface so what happened below the surface is what will determine the outcome of this aircraft.
As for why they might have flown through it:
https://www.weather.gov/media/publications/front/14dec-front.pdf
For example there could have been an area of intense rain blocking the radar signal so they weren’t able to see the hail until they encountered it.
Nah this is DL, they'll just puddy up the front, give her a fresh coat of paint, and get a few more years out of a woefully outdated hard DeltaOne product.
😉
I recall a few years ago a DL 744 (DTW-ICN) got similarly smashed up over PRC airspace, when ATC wouldn't let them deviate to avoid a hailstorm. After repairs, the a/c was ferried to the desert to be parted out. At the time, DL had some 744s in reserve.
Maybe if they didn’t fly such ancient out of date planes newer ones might be more durable ?
I doubt seriously the age of the aircraft has anything to do with the weather....
The data was clearly showing large hail in that storm for at least a half hour leading up to the strike. As a meteorologist, I'm puzzled as to how how this was missed.
Analysis: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7089370347057164288/
the flight involved PVG which was why it was in Chinese airspace. It landed in ICN after being beaten up in the storms
That is called a radar shadow. Any remotely competent airline pilot would know not to fly into a radar shadow.
"Kudos to the pilots for safely getting the aircraft on the ground."
I always get a chuckle when I read comments like that on such an incident. Hail is very easy to avoid. I spent 30 years as an airline pilot and spent a lot of that deviating around thunderstorms. Hail is somewhat predictable as to where it might be. We have rules about how far away from a thunderstorm we must fly. Hail is one of the reasons. These pilots aren't heros. To bring an airplane back n that condition, it means you were very likely someplace you shouldn't have been.
Agreed! I would imagine that the PIC and FO are going to have some explaining to do as to why they even took off in that kind of weather.
What the heck were the pilots thinking going thru that!? There must have been a better route or, don’t takeoff into that!
Are you serious??? Even a new airplane will look like that flying thru a hailstorm!
Hopefully they retire that hunk of junk, but then again it is Delta - well known for their aging cash-strapped fleet. Hopefully the passengers got to fly on an aircraft with an age under two decades.
you do realize that Delta and United operate both remaining versions of the 767 - the -300ER and -400 - and both DL and UA's fleets are of a similar age?
Do you also realize that Delta begged Boeing for years to build a new generation replacement for the 767 but Boeing spent more on the 787 than they have on any other aircraft, have grounded both the 787 and 737MAX multiple times, and now doesn't have money - or new technology for a new aircraft?
Delta will continue the retirement of its 767-300ER fleet next year according to DL execs on its earnings call but this aircraft was not likely one that was on the list.
And I would take a a Delta or United 767 in any cabin except business (the vast majority of the plane) over an American or United Boeing 777 or 787 every day and twice on Sunday. The 767 is simply more spacious and still a widebody but is small enough for service to go quickly and most importantly everyone to be no more than one seat from an aisle.
US airlines were the backbone of the 757 and 767 global fleets and both are unreplaceable with anything Airbus or Boeing are building. It will be a sad day when the last passenger 767 leaves the skies.
And Boeing won't even be able to sell freighter versions of the 767 by the next decade
I was in FCO yesterday sitting on an LH A321 waiting in the takeoff line when this aircraft diverted. I scanned Flightradar24 to figure out why weren't moving and saw the DL 767 and our captain's announcement that there was an emergency landing ongoing at that time delaying departures confirmed my suspicions .
The weather in Western Europe was definitely a challenge yesterday. It was 100 degrees and sunny in Rome but our flight got bounced around pretty good and once we got to FRA, multiple ramp closures due to lightning delayed both the disembarkation of this flight and the departure of my connection. There was a sudden downpour of the most rain I have ever seen in my life after I boarded my connection and was definitely glad we weren't flying through that. Looked like a lot of jeopardized connections and long lines at the Lufthansa customer service desks.
If your defense for Delta is that UA and AA are also doing the same, you are digging deep. The 767 is simply dated, uncomfortable with respect to the interior environs, noise and harshness. US airlines may have loved the 757 and the 767, but sadly it's time for them to break-up, and actually consider a major fleet rehaul (if they could afford to). The US trio have squeezed just about every penny from these aging uglies as is possible.
The 767 fragmented transatlantic routes and allowed far more routes to be added from secondary hubs which is the same thing the 777 did over the Pacific. That role benefitted US airlines w/ their multiple hubs more than European airlines which have fewer hubs.
The 767 is simply more spacious than any other aircraft except the A330 in all cabins other than business class.
The 757 is far more capable than the A320 or B737 MAX family (any version).
Neither Airbus or Boeing have built or even released plans to fully replace the 757 and 767s capabilities.
You can stomp your feet saying that those fleet's time is up but the airlines that actually operate them have access to all of the data that show whether the 757 and 767 still make sense from both a revenue and cost perspective.
And, once again, the weather damage had nothing to do with the age or type of aircraft.
The Delta pilots clearly did not know what they were flying into - onboard aircraft radar simply do not have the capabilities that ground and satellite based systems provide - and people on the ground - whether at DL's headquarters or in Italian ATC did not fill the information gap.
The question, once again, is how extensively the aircraft was damaged below the surface and whether the cost of repairs is worth it.
The capt and one co-pilot were hired a little over a year ago. There was a line check capt aboard also.
Sound like more than being unlucky
They flew through hail bud. That has zero to do with the aircraft's age. Aging cash strapped fleet? Did you read that somewhere? How is the fleet cash strapped?
I saw this plane diverting to Rome on Flightradar24. For some reason, I started getting emergency alerts on FR24 a couple of days ago. I still have to figure out how to stop them. It was interesting to see that live though!
Mark,
I learned what a radar shadow was on a yt vid a few weeks ago. Intentionally flying into one is deffo a way to end your day on an unpleasant note...
Most flights, in Milan, ahead of 185, refused to take off, with the heavy hailstorm fast approaching. The Easyjet right in front of them went back to the terminal.
It was the idiotic Delta pilots that took off anyway.
I guess Delta provided woke training instead of hail training ?
I'm assuming they diverted to Rome due to more SkyTeam options to get passengers to JFK. Also, since Rome is a bigger airport, perhaps their repair facilities are better equipped to handle such a task.
Aren’t all U.S. corporations a whiff away from being cash strapped? Also, who cares? It’s just another crap US airline that thankfully most around the globe need not fly!
Came to say you know who is quaking in his boots. Turns out he just blamed the authorities instead of acknowledging a (minor) hit to DLs plans hahahaha
Can’t imagine how (or why ?) the Delta pilots ended up flying through the hail storm on climb out from MXP. The 767 has sophisticated weather radar which shows dense precipitation in clouds ahead, so why not turn left or right ? Seems like pilots have some questions to answer.
Delta. Best pilots in the world. Or so they claim. Till they fly into hailstorms when nobody else is.
Kinda surprised they didn’t cancel beforehand, since Tropical Storm Hilary was forecast to bring very heavy rains to Southern California, starting on Sunday
This has happened once before that I know of and I think in 1977! The hail destroy the screen with tiny balls and it looked like fog, no one could see out! 4 engines had a St Elmo’s Fire surrounding the plane and over the engines, it looked like all were on fire! The damages done to the inside of the engines had never happened before. Nothing showed on the radar or their slower forecasts of yesteryear! The damage was amazing