Last week, American Airlines revealed plans to launch a new daily flight between Chicago and Tokyo, which is a route resumption, and also represents American’s return of Asia flying out of Chicago.
Continue reading: Bleh: American Airlines Adds Chicago To Tokyo Narita Route, Merely Replacing JAL
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Absolutely bonkers AA didn't fly to the entire Asian continent from the third largest metro area in the US for this long
As per usual, zero vision or strategy from AA. If the plan is to lean on the partners, then do it. Let JAL have this route and use this plane to serve a new market. They never commit to any one strategy.
Once upon a time (20 or so years ago), ORD was AA’s primary gateway to Asia. NRT, PVG/PEK (can’t remember which, might have been both), and DEL were all served from there. Only NRT had service from a couple other hubs.
Perhaps JL wants to do the same. How do you know JL has the capacity to operate the route ?
given that UA just announced it is starting ORD-NRT service and NH didn't start it, AA and JL just might have an advantage unless JL cancels its ORD-NRT flight.
and Tokyo, including Narita - might be boring but that is all any US airline manages to fly from Chicago.
Given that DL manages to fly to HND and ICN from both DTW and MSP as well as DTW-PVG, it would seem that DL not only is the airline from the Midwest to East Asia but also does "interesting" better than what AA or UA do from Chicago.
This is great for connection through one world alliance that mostly fly to NRT
Ben — any idea why Delta hasn’t tried a service to Asia from JFK? I would think they could at least make JFK to Seoul work with the Korean Air connectivity (if not JFK-Tokyo). It seems like a glaring missing piece from Delta’s JFK hub.
One of my friends at AA HDQ told me the plan is to start ORD-NRT service and if the load factor is higher than 35%, they will move the flight from ORD-NRT to ELP-NRT. Customers will then have a smaller, seamless airport to transit for a better customer experience to and from Asia. I think it makes total sense, eh?
Dude, you have totally lost the plot and look absolutely ridiculous from an outsider’s perspective. I’m a loyal Delta flyer, but to suggest Delta in any way, shape or form has a route network even remotely as “interesting” or exotic as United is absolutely ridiculous.
Not unprecedented. Delta is the top carrier at the nation's busiest international gateway, in its largest metro; and also does not fly to Asia. Not even any of its Asian j/v partner hubs.
The only technically-Asian flight they've offered from there in more than a decade, is Tel Aviv, and that can't even operate continuously (for obvious reasons).
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Timmy, Delta flies to fewer long haul destinations from MSP & DTW combined than UA does from ORD - so no they lose the interesting battle (again). Can you please start fact checking your own writing?
And yet we are not talking about anything except East Asia. Can you just admit that Delta serves East Asia from the Midwest better than American or United?
This is good news for those who are into Atmos rewards as there will be more award availability to/from Japan.
Another boring restoration that would make me so happy is returning AA90 ORD-LHR to its longtime morning departure time. I know it was an operational headache, but it was the last vestige of American's "We Mean Business in Chicago."
JL9/10 is already the easiest route to score a first class seat on JL TPAC flights, so I suppose AA is making JL fliers' life even easier.
We aren't talking about DTW and MSP either Tim. Can you just exit the discussion because DL doesn't serve any international destinations from Chicago?
No need to say “increasingly retreated” or “increasingly compete.” It is sufficient to say “retreated” or “compete” in this article.
I think it should have been PHL-HND, as I am a Philly flyer. hehehe. On a serious note, how come there is no service to Asia from PHL?
Nah, I think it'd truly be "interesting" if Delta flew from Tokyo to Chicago 😉
If JL flies this route, schedule is less optimal for the late afternoon flight bank (unless keep ORD-HND late afternoon like NH or even red-eye which isn’t optimal). This AA makes more sense to operate this route. Same for PHL-DOH - QR makes more sense. To keep the circle, HND-DOH better be operated by QR than JL for a better flight timing but that’s up to slots etc.
Quintessential Tim Dunn moving the goal posts comment. "Can someone validate this extremely narrow data point that proves delta superiority?" Who do you think cares about the most exciting midwest to East Asia airline? Do you even read these comments before you post?
Lucky has a word counter on the homepage -- "43,914,800 Words Written" it says currently.
43,914,799 doesn't sound as impressive.
Because they already offer flights from Detroit, Minneapolis and Seattle, all of which are "on the way". Delta only has so many slots at HND and has shut its NRT hub. Unlike AA/UAL, Delta doesn't have a JV partner offering connecting flights out of HND or NRT (although it likely still has the the legacy NW fifth freedom rights).
Plus the goal isn't to fly everywhere from every hub. The goal is to fly full flights. That's how you maintain profitability.
And yet UA has three flights from NYC to Asia, including one to SkyTeam hub ICN, while DL doesn’t fly to Asia at all from NYC.
Gets back to the whole idea of DL struggling to compete outside of their fortress hubs.
DL will add JFK-ICN flights. what they add beyond that remains to be seen but they can do more with both versions of the A350 than AA or UA can do with the 787.
ICN is a larger hub than either Tokyo hub.
DL is very disciplined about focusing its strategic efforts; DL's strategic focus is growing Asia from the west coast right now
we get that, Mark. and nobody tried to argue any differently.
JUST SAY IT.
DL serves more of E. Asia from the Midwest than any other US airline.
and DL serves more of E. Asia from outside of CA than any other airline.
iow, UA's TPAC network is VERY HEAVILY dependent on SFO.
actually a whole lot of people care including you because you repeatedly can be counted on to post some drivel saying that nobody cares. It gets under your skin so, yes, it gets noticed
It’s funny how even a benign news report about a new AA route turns into a debate in the comments section about how DL is the best. I think a lot of readers are getting a bit tired of that.
Tim
have you noticed you're the only one talking about DTW & MSP and weirdly enough... seem to insist that somebody repeats something only you're talking about.
As ever... you have a mental disorder and you keep pushing it into the public eye. That's not an attack on you, it's an observation.
Get help
For any of us in the Midwest, AA 90 was our only same day daytime option to LHR. I want it back.
More than a bit tired. Amazing some people have nothing better to do that reactively respond to any comment with DL news.
Genuinely asking, what's the point of JFK to ICN flights on Delta metal? It doesn't better serve NYC customers any better than flying on KE via ICN to a specific Asia destination or to SEA/LAX/DTW for HND/PVG/TPE/HKG.
Aside from fulfilling the JV clauses for flying, it actually doesn't enhance their network at all.
Delta would be better off serving something unique like DEL.
More options between US-JP is good for consumers. Japan is not ‘boring’ at all… Oh, did you mean Chicago? Oof.
Do you consider DOH as “Asia” (QR still flies it), or where you thinking of East Asia?
Oh no… our Concierge Keys on domestic flights won’t have it all to themselves… *sad face*
Bro, You completely lost the plot. Nobody cares about Delta flying from Minneapolis or Detroit. Seriously?! Delta is no where close to United's global network.
Why would they do that, when there's -nil- demand for such a route though?
Las Vegas, Nashville, and Indianapolis all generated more traffic to Japan than Miami did last year, and they're much smaller cities. If you count the metro area, Vegas had more traffic to Japan than Miami + Ft. Lauderdale + Palm Beach combined.
Both AA and JAL have had aircraft capable of flying the route, for nearly 30 years. The fact that they still haven't bothered, despite it being hub-to-hub, should tell you everything you need to know.
"Aside from fulfilling the JV clauses for flying, it actually doesn't enhance their network at all."
You just answered your own question, while dismissing your own conclusion.
Remember that Delta's reciprocity requirement isn't geographically correlated: an Asian turn can offset increased flying by European partner. And with SAS potentially joining the j/v, adding a Seoul turn could be a low-risk offset, and one that also grants Korean some flexibility, as it rationalizes its own post-merger capacity in several key markets.
"I think a lot of readers are getting a bit tired of that."
You SAY that, but the ACTIONS of people here tell a different story.
99 times out of 100, if there's even the proximate potential to discuss Delta in a conversation, you people will start saying his name (like he's friggin Beetlejuice or Candyman) until he shows up and starts ranting. Heck, half the time, they'll start ranting FOR him, if he doesn't show up, in the hopes that he does.
When I read this, I feel like it's "WN adds NRT route!"
Cool, but no normal person would book that over the alternatives.
NH flies to both HND and NRT from ORD, no? You said that NH never started it. And BTW UA will be the same this fall. Nice to see AA start to rebuild the bones of an international network. Baby steps, but steps nonetheless.
DL needs to fly to HND from DTW and MSP because they don't from ORD. Otherwise they would have a giant hole. That's entirely logical, but not "interesting". Interesting would be DL's return to NRT.
Exactly! In 2010, I took the JAL flight to NRT. I remember walking by a gaggle of AA employees complaining about their partnership with JAL, but I also remember seeing quite a few AA 777s in Narita while waiting for my connection to Hanoi. Back then, AA’s 3 class 777s with true first were considered best in class at age front of the plane, but I was eager toto enjoy JAL’s superior economy experience since I was a humble person on a budget.
Could this be related to PR joining oneworld? In the same vein, I wonder how would their relationship with NH play out? Would they divest altogether?
and yet people seem to feel more of a need to respond to what I wrote than any person on this or other sites.
the simple fact is that any 6000 mile route is a big deal esp. for AA which hasn't flown to E. Asia from Chicago for years.
Boring, if there is such a thing, is adding a route which is already flown by someone else - which says ORD is more of a competitive slugfest than adding anything unique and that AA and UA don't fly to anything more in E Asia than Tokyo from ORD
DL manages to support Tokyo and Seoul from both DTW and MSP as well as China from DTW; if boring is Tokyo only flying then DTW must be nirvana from the Midwest.
"and yet people seem to feel more of a need to respond to what I wrote than any person on this or other sites."
because you're the only one that writes such idiotic stupid liles that need a direct response. Only you would pat yourself on the back for being stupid and assume others respond to you because of how important you are. Your situational awareness is zero.
I would much rather see American compete with United at ORD from the perspective of OneWorld versus Star Alliance. Being ORD-based, I am so tired of having to connect through LHR to get to most major markets in Europe or MIA/DFW for Latin America and Asia. I can already log onto aa-dot-com and book flights directly to Tokyo from Chicago. But I can't do that to Lisbon or Warsaw or São Paulo or Istanbul or ANYWHERE in Germany, or to SkyTeam destinations like Copenhagen or Seoul. As a frequent business traveler to Mexico City, I was thrilled to see them add direct service (even if that morning flight is a tad early for my tastes), but new routes need to be things we coudn't do through OneWorld before—not just new for American.
Wild to me that AA doesn't serve any TATL destation from ORD year-round other than LHR
Having just flown (March) NRT-YVR I don't agree that JAL is necessarily better than AA. Our JAL flight was staffed by uninterested FA's and had poor beverage and food selections in J. Lounge in NRT was sub-optimal as well.
Chicago is dead city most of businesses were moved out in last 2 years, I won't surprise if JL stop ORD-NRT.
I'm hoping they will (re)start more ORD-TATL too. I remember flying ORD-MAN-ORD on their Rocket-75's 10-15 years ago..that was actually not as bad as flight as I thought. AA can fly to OneWorld partner hubs for a start.
ORD-TPAC might be a bit tougher given the competition.
I'm guessing you mean "Asia Pacific" or possibly "Southeast Asia"? Hopefully with the B787's and A359's being integrated into fleets, we'll start to see carriers offer service to PHL from Asia.
My guesses as to why they ended those flights:
1)Costs (fuel, labor, etc.) was getting a bit too high.
2)Lack of premium seats getting filled.
3)General "retreat" (as we've seen) from ORD - hopefully that will change.
4).DFW growing significantly in that time. Both as a metro and as a hub.
Hmmn, I wonder what JAL will do with this frame they have freed up. NRT-PHX, maybe?
Inbound tourism to Japan is at an all time high yet JAL don't grow or open new destinations. Here they are dropping one. I wonder what the logic is there.
There was always a possibility that this was just an alliance swap.
Given that America doesn't serve Asia at all from Chicago and all United serves is both Tokyo airports, this at least closes the gap a little bit for American.
Narita has essentially become a connecting airport for deeper into Asia and it largely caters to US point of origin since HND carries the majority of premium traffic.
The only real hope for any change in US to Japan aviation is for Japan to open up more slots at Haneda and that will be the end of NRT as a TPAC airport but that is highly unlikely
With UA actually adding an incremental ORD-NRT with NH already serving it, UA (and NH by extension) come out ahead yet again. The combo to both airports with both airlines, an American and Japanese/Asian carrier, works well so as to ensure maximum connectivity with customers from both points of sale/origin across local + behind/beyond traffic.
Is JAL going to move up the ORD-HND time slot for passengers that would rather travel on JAL metal and connect through Haneda? ORD arrives 2 hours after other ex-USA JAL flights...
Sad to see that one go, JL56/55 was my first (and so far only) first class experience, back in summer 2018.
This feels like more of a joint venture business decision than some broader strategic decision by JAL as it relates to tourism in Japan. There are all kinds of reasons why carriers will change who operates a given route in a joint venture - the overall capacity and route coverage isn't changing though.
Yeah, I thought the primary rationale for JL handing off ORD-NRT to AA is that it would allow both the NRT and HND flights to depart ORD for optimum onward connections in JP. If indeed that's the case, it would make this shift more strategic, more customer friendly, and less "bleh."
I didn't realize it was that limited?! Kind of wild to me. I flew American a bit early on in my career when starting consulting and pretty quickly switched to United.
United has its issues but I'm glad I switched back then as I near 1 million miles on United, which feels like a much better carrier long-term for someone based in Chicago.
Relatively speaking, ORD stinks in terms of premium demand. JL picked up cargo codeshares with KALITTA on the same route last year. This, combined with the fact that they were recently willing to swap to a 787 for their regular passenger route shows that perhaps they overshot their expectations for cargo demand. And that they didn't care too much for the second frequency on ORD/TYO.
Maybe the one upside to AA replacing JL, aside from the ability to use systemwide upgrades, is that the departure from Narita aligns with the late evening bank, rather than JL’s 0945 departure. That had the advantages of 1) Broadening time of day coverage for the local market by complementing, rather than duplicating, JL’s morning departure from HND and 2) Improving connectivity from SE Asia. Previously, you’d need to take a red eye up to Tokyo to connect to Chicago from SIN/BKK/etc. With the evening departure, it is possible to leave in the morning and connect same-day to Chicago and the rest of the US.
More capacity or a more exciting route would be nice, but at least this switch does provide a meaningful improvement over JL’s schedule.
If AA were to operate with 789P with the new Flagship Suites, this actually would be fine; sure, catering is better in JAL, and JL’s a35K is a superior aircraft, but it may not be all bad.
If you check how many JAL (and partners) flights arrive NRT before 945am (current dep schedule) and right before 550pm (new schedule), you’ll understand why they’re doing it. This is the right step for us.
The return flight to ORD schedule change makes this a net positive to me. I wouldn’t fly the previous AM to AM flight for free.
Replacing JAL with AA is utterly craptacular, no matter how good the connections are at the other end.
Good management team react fast as world changes, most of time things are simple. I won't be surprised if JL starts service from Miami
Ben, does this potentially free up one of the A350s that was already allocated or pending allocation to the ORD route? Would be wonderful if it meant that SFO-HND gets the A350 sooner!
@ sfo-a350 -- Officially, the A350 hadn't yet been scheduled on the Chicago route, so it's hard to say for sure. Maybe it would've gotten it a couple of years down the road, but I suspect SFO will be next, no matter what.
I actually would rather fly AA in biz than the old JAL (or ANA) seat. More comfortable and more privacy and actually lots of storage.
I’ve flown Ana a million times in biz in the last few years and the food is not knock your socks off good, or close to it. Flown JAL a fair bit too. First, biz, prem Econ and economy. On the planes without the new biz it’s really not that great of an airline.
Do you think JAL will do an equipment swap, aka downgrade to a 787 before they switch with AA? I'm booked on their first class in Feb.
JAL already flies a 787 on this route. Their 777 is to HND, which is not the route being downgraded to AA metal.
So is the AA Dreamliner going to sit for 17 hours overnight in Japan every night? Or is there some switcheroo taking place with the aircraft for the Dallas route?
ANA has been flying NRT to Chicago for ages, on the NH 11/12 rotation. I've taken it many times.
It turns around immediately at NRT, and then presumably does a TATL turn from Chicago.
9:45 am out of NRT is rough for O&D passengers as you have to get out the door around 7 am and fight Tokyo morning rush hour traffic to get to the airport.
If anything I would prefer that JAL imitate the late timing of ANA's ORD-HND flight, which allows me to hang out on the East Coast until ~3pm and still get to Tokyo the following evening.
Not necessarily. Depends if you’re connecting to regional Japan. Besides, it’s not that far into town.