American Airlines has just announced an ”order” for up to 60 supersonic jets. Whether or not this ever becomes a reality remains to be seen.
Continue reading: American Airlines “Orders” Boom Supersonic Overture Jet
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
What effort have you made to support your conclusion or is this just a general feeling based on mostly nothing? Have you asked to interview somebody at Boom?
It seems like there would be a lot of demand if this comes to reality and the fares aren’t ridiculous. A lot of people would rather get somewhere quickly rather than spend tons more time on a plane. There’s a lot of people that value their time and want to minimize time on planes even if they could fly on something luxurious such as Emirates first class.
My immediate reaction is how similar Overture appears to Concorde -- same number of engines, same range, same passenger load. That makes it hard for me to see what's different and therefore what will make Overture succeed.
@ Sean -- I think the key point there is about fares not being ridiculous. For this to work with so few seats, airlines are going to need to charge at least as much as (non-discounted) business class, if not more.
Admittedly there's probably a fair bit of demand for that between markets like New York to London during the best of times, but if there's any sort of economic downturn, these planes would have to be grounded.
The other reason I think this concept isn't as needed as in the past is because of how much business class has improved. Nowadays we have flat bed business class with direct aisle access and Wi-Fi. Many people can rest or work almost as well on planes as on the ground, which eliminates some of the benefit of a jet flying faster (especially if seats wouldn't be as spacious, which is definitely what's happening here -- Boom Overture seats would be more like domestic first class seats).
@ Justin -- I've seen countless interviews with Boom executives, and I'm not sure I have anything else to ask? For that matter, asking a person trying to sell their own product about something like this doesn't really give you a balanced look at the odds of this becoming a reality.
I'm not saying this won't work, and quite to the contrary, I hope it does work. All I'm saying is that I'm not convinced this will become a reality.
A few concerns:
-- What are the engine plans for the Boom Overture concept? They still haven't been announced
-- With an increasing focus on environmentalism in the industry, will this plane be ecologically unjustifiable, even as we move to more sustainable concepts?
-- Look at the issues there have been with planes like the 737 MAX and 787 getting certified by the FAA... I feel like it would take a very long time for a concept like this to gain FAA approval
Anyway, just a few initial thoughts...
"The final production design of the jet could roll out in 2025, and the plane could enter passenger service in 2029"
Yeah, sure. And monkeys could fly out of my arsehole. At mach 1.7. Just as likely as this happening.
I’m a lot more confident they can create a plane*, than I am they can create a plane with economics that work in the marketplace.
*Concorde worked 45 years ago, but never made money.
As well as with the pandemic forcing WFH, many corporates have realized that most of their employee's business trips aren't that of significant importance anymore, with most of them can be solved through software like Zoom, business travel will certainly decrease in the next few years.
@Brian:
That's exactly the point -- what are the differentiators and why aren't they publicizing them. Their absence makes me skeptical.
The article seems a little pessimistic, especially the "quotes" around orders, which are no different to any other early placement for a new type.
Boom has moved steadily forward over these last few years, and now they are showing a near-frozen design, airlines are beginning to bite.
Key is economics and eco-achievability, both items that Concorde never really resolved, but which are primary targets for Boom.
As designed, Boom is quite a bit slower than Concorde, which should make it cheaper to fly. But it should cruise at near-sonic speeds over land, which means no supersonic noise carpet. And engines should be state of the art, burning SAF (Sustainable Aviation Fuel).
This plane doesnt even have the one thing needed to actually fly an engine. Lol at everyone getting mad at Ben and other commenters for doubting this. They had designed a plane before even looking at what is possible and feasible from an engine maker which they dont even have. This thing wont even test fly till 2035 and who knows what air travel is going to look like then.
Nope, never made money.
It was kept alive by British & French government subsidies.
“which are no different to any other early placement for a new type”
Except that this company has delivered zero planes of *any* type.
The long range Business Jet replaced Concorde years ago.
Overture will be for the accomplished, urbanites, or professional masses. Not necessarily a bad thing, but rather different than the long time clientele of Concorde.
Provided of course BOOM can make the numbers work so it is not a money loser for the airlines. Could this be the final maturation of the supersonic aspirations one way or another or are hypersonic where aspirations really should be!
it was never built to make money... it was built to make a statement... it was a very successful project... also Concorde was significantly faster and more powerful than overture.... boom isn't trying to one up Concorde.... boom's objective is efficiently.... the two aircraft have 2 completely different objectives
This is a great solution to LHR's congestion problems.
Considering how long it look BA to fix the 787, unlikely that this will fly anytime soon, and even then I don't see US carriers being the first movers.
May make sense for Cathay if HK remains closed to tourists.
American Airlines could use the Overture on routes such as JFK-LHR, MIA-LHR and LAX-HNL. Should Boom Supersonic develop an extended-range version of the Overture or Overture-ER to allow the plane to fly transpacific routes, AA could also fly supersonic on LAX-HND and SEA-PVG
Sean...your sentence says the big "if"...if fares aren't ridiculous. It will be interesting to see how this aircraft will be fueled, as that is the 2nd biggest expense after labor. You're essentially spreading an intercontinental flight's worth of fuel over 65 - 80 business class passengers vs. the 200 - 300 on a normal aircraft. That alone is going to require ridiculously high fares unless they have a magic bullet to combat fuel consumption.
How about a zoom instead of a boom ?
Factoring in inflation the price point for a RT fare would be $9,999 and up. Is there that much demand for jfk lhr ? American should modify their order to 5-10 planes.
They can fill the empty seats with non revs for $1,000.
… And that’s what I’m saying. Ask those questions to somebody who might be able to answer them — especially if you feel like the information available from other available sources is not satisfactory or complete.
Fares were ridiculous for Concorde and for what? To save three or four hours of flight time? I saw a Concorde parked at a gate in Dulles back in the late ‘80s and the biggest thing that stood out was how small the plane was. One has to wonder how comfortable it would be cramming that many seats onboard a small plane. I travel TATL several times a year and my actual time in air from California is around 14 hours, requiring a connection. The flight to the EU is around 8 to 9 hours. So, in order to save about 4 hours of flight time, I’d be spending a huge premium and probably traveling in a crowded cabin. I’ll gladly save my money and continue flying A350s and 787s with a comfy bed and space. Hard to believe there would be a market for this.
"Boom has moved steadily forward over these last few years, and now they are showing a near-frozen design"
They changed the plane's design last month after publicly working towards a totally different design since 2016.
It was not small changes, either.
Notable changes included:
its not a quadjet not trijet
it will carry less passengers than anticipated
it will only go march 1.7 instead of mach 2.1
totally new wing profile
totally new nose
seemingly much smaller windows
different shape tail
new landing gear
added weight
significantly reduced range
their plans seem anything but frozen and consistent
I think one additional constraint to this market will be CO2 emissions. It's pure physics that they will be higher than for conventional business class travel, unless it is using a higher percentage (100%) of sustainable fuel. Corporates are increasingly restricting business class travel on the ground of CO2 emissions and even those who still permit it, will be hesitant to allow supersonic business class travel.
Not to mention broadly scared of the future... to the extent said future includes fast planes, black people, and more than 2 pronouns.
I pity them.
If any of you are curious as to why a lot of people have concerns about Boom's viability, I suggest you read this cogent and well-reasoned summary: https://paxex.aero/boom-supersonic-overture-final-revised-design/
Financial and environmental concerns aside, can someone make a comment on the engineering logistical hurdles preventing an engine from being developed...I remember watching the Concorde take off from Dulles...I'm sure things have advanced a great deal in materials since those days.
American might want to look at it's balance sheets first before buying fairy tail aircraft! The airline is OVER $35,000,000,000.00 in debt as of this moment. Why in the world do they think 4 engine planes are going to make a comeback? SMH
The main problem with this product will be political. I can easily imagine First-World governments banning the plane to greenwash their environmental creds. This thing will become a darling of the enviro press, which will publish breathless stats about fuel copnsumption, luxury, ticket prices and CO2 emissions. Governments will have no choice under this pressure. So it's ine and I'd fly it in a heartbeat, but it probably won't be allowed to land in UK, France, Canada, Denmark...
Lets not forget the US military is interested in this also. They spend our money very recklessly so I think the military will get what they want thus the airlines will get that they want.
AA is an insolvent business concern with liabilities far exceeding its assets. It only continues to operate because of the goodwill and the kindness ot its creditors.
Lots of comments from the armchairs, which is reasonable for such an advanced new aircraft. So I’ll add mine.
- if entry into service is 2029 (likely later), then it’s viable.
- my only surprise is how many aircraft AA has ordered at 20 with a non refundable deposit, let alone the referenced total order for 60. How can there be that many routes across the ocean that could fit this aircraft/airfares? Only JFK and MIA are viable gateways given sound restrictions, with LAX being downgraded during the pandemic (and SEA can’t support those ultra high airfares in consistent volume)
- “non refundable” deposits become refundable if the aircraft is never produced (though if that happens, Boom would already be bankrupt and wouldn’t have the money to return),
- engines are indeed the BIG mystery. I have no clue about this issue.
- to overcome the “eco” warrior (legitimate) issues, I would think that Boom must be examining the new alternative green fuels to operate the aircraft alongside with whomever might be their engine manufacturing partner…though another huge wonder if eco fuel can take an aircraft to supersonic speeds…though again, I’m no engineer and don’t have a clue.
- FINALLY, if Boom successfully does the heavy lifting to make the aircraft feasible, both Boeing and Airbus will be frothing at their mouths to buy the company…that’s inevitable…if Boom can make a viable design.
With just 65 seats I’m guessing this plane will actually be flown by one of their regional carriers. I’m guessing Republic.
Really wish that Boom is successful, just as a slap in the face of all the negative nellies here.
As far as engines are concerned, there are many alternatives available for the airline, especially from P&W who have a large array of turbojets. Of course, most of the engines will require upscaling to be suitable for an aircraft of this size. I am more interested in the type of fuel which Boom will utilize - a bioderived fuel or will it be conventional or JP7.
One thing overlooked during Concordes reign is OneWorld and the Star Alliance, both whom seem to be taking the Supersonic lead, were pretty much in their marketing infancy.
Alliances could boost the success and acceptance of the Overture once it is in production and delivered.
However, much like Concorde, Boom will always be subject to the manipulations of oil flow from various geographical sectors both political, and international.
Technology is not the limiting factor of man. Power, greed, and control is the limiting factor and this will likely not be overcome even if the Overture does reach the market.
Capabilities inferior to Concorde, which is already a 50 year old technology.
"The final production design of the jet could roll out in 2025, and the plane could enter passenger service in 2029"
They forgot to add, By 2036 the jet would all be grounded.
Can you expand on how alliance or their marketing can boost success?
Can you expand on how manipulation of oll will affect Boom but not other airliners.
Concorde didn't die from politics or marketing. It died on dropping airfare and sound restrictions.
I am jumping on the negative bandwagon as well. If the A380 isn't wanted due to lack of fuel efficiency, then this Concorde 2.0 is going to be even less wanted with its huge fuel burn/CO2 emissions. American is getting their name on it now just because it looks cool. From the engineering standpoint, how are they addressing the wing vulnerability that brought down the Air France flight?