Yesterday, American Airlines teased plans to announce new international routes, with a fun game inviting travelers to decode the destinations the airline would add. Well, the wait is over, and American has just announced the details of its international expansion for the summer of 2027.
Too many flights , too high fares , for too many dumb passengers .
Once again, AA makes it difficult to be too excited.
@ted - That's what AA's press release has. Not sure if it's a typo on their end or just American keeping their XLRs for longer runs.
Solid and sensible.
What’s wrong with a fourth flight to London on one of the new 787Ps? AA’s evening flight times from JFK are early in the evening and have not been as good as BAs. So would be nice if there was a later than 7pm option on AA metal.
I took their 6:00 pm also on the 787P and had a good sleep in PE. And yes, I'd appreciate something later than 7.
Unfortunately, it appears the 4th flight is another daytime flight for whatever reason. The 4th JFK-LHR is blocked at 8:50am to 9pm next summer. Certainly AA and BA can re-arrange and coordinate slots, but another daytime flight seems odd. I agree that another later departure like 8pm or 9pm would've been better, at least for connections.
I mean that’s when the current daytime flight is? So if they are going to put the P on a daytime flight that would be huge - I love the daytime flight.
No, there are currently two daytime flights scheduled next summer. The other one is 10am arriving 10pm on the 777.
Given they just announced, I am willing to wait it out and see what changes, there are always shifts with schedules and slots at LHR.
Once again, adding flights for the AARP crowd. Vienna is the “most exciting” add. It’s a nice city and seems perfect for the 321.
Iceland and Porto were good adds. Nice seems safe and good to see American adding from JFK.
American is just replacing JetBlue on the JFK to Amsterdam route.
And CLT to BCN is just connecting the dots.
The AARP crowd? Really? Given that AARP membership can start at 50, it seems like excluding those folks would leave a ton of money on the table. And, I thought the mikes and points community was supposed to be about discounts and free stuff! 🙂
Pretty boring but certainly better than nothing. Vienna is the best add.
Also, good to see Porto and Iceland. I’m sure Nice will do fine.
What is interesting is how the US consumer continues to absorb all the new capacity. Competition is good so regardless of if you dislike Americans routes, the additional flights are good for consumers.
Should have just listed 7 and left off the 4th daily heathrow flight
Who the hell is running AA’s marketing?
This announcement is lackluster at best. Adding a few new cities and some additional frequencies is hardly something to get excited about—especially when you compare it to what United just announced.
But what really leaves me scratching my head is the timing. United announces 10 new international cities, eight of which won’t have nonstop competition from another U.S. carrier, along with a major rollout of the A321XLR—and then AA waits two days to follow it with this?
People are still talking about United’s announcement. AA had to know it was coming. Why not get out in front of it, or at the very least wait a week or two and create some separation? Instead, they invite a direct comparison with United, and AA’s announcement looks even more underwhelming as a result.
Better than the super-cringe 'sponsored content' Delta's tryin' these days...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tYJU9hCBdDs
Commenter '@chrishepburn1503' said it best: "Lame af"
United certainly had some cool new routes, no doubt.
TBH, I'm not really sure who is still talking about the MAX8 to TER or flights to TLS or LUX (both cool routes but pretty boring destinations if you've ever been to either spot (LUX is just a Giant street of US European HQs these days) -- they're both just business destinations)
but in any other year, AA's announcement would be rather interesting (though obviously not groundbreaking since two of the routes were already announced and many of the others are a resumption of service... though after decades in some instances)
But AA already served LAX-KIX via JL and obviously... AA is never going to serve Okinawa with their west coast network. To me, those were the coolest routes from UA though the European stuff was obviously interesting.
Frankly, I can't even imagine the immense pain of doing a trip to IBZ followed up by a 9 hour narrow body flight. Cool route, no doubt, and not everyone dies on the terminal floor after their Ibiza trip but... yeah, no.
@Robert--given the scope of UA's announcement as compared to AA's, I am uncertain that timing alone is the marketing culprit, but you are correct that coming out with this announcement after United's is not a good look. However, I am not sure that any amount of spin could have made these routes look all that interesting.
Gary at VFTW was 6/8 on his predictions. Ben guessed (or at least 'reacted' to the clues on) PHL-UIO, and it turned out to be the 'red-herring.' Bah!
AA using A321xlrs on the Vienna, Nice and especially Amsterdam routes is quite telling. United using the plane for the reasons it was meant to (starting routes that otherwise wouldnt exist), while AA using it for routes that the competition is flying widebodies.
Having to fly that on NYC-AMS, for instance, is quite stark given the other competition on that route.
not really. AA has very little feed in NYC unlike United, in particular, and obviously Delta will have heavy feed on both ends of JFK-AMS. So for AA, it's exactly how the plane was intended -- a VERY O&D route for them only. So AA putting a heavy J aircraft on a business route with little feed on either end is almost exactly how the xlr was intended to be used. You can't really take United and Delta's networks, place your assumptions on AA, then interpret a misusage of plane economics.
Frankly, AA wouldn't really want to feed AMS via JFK, that would be the job of PHL.
Your statement is interesting but a little basic in interpretation given the networks of the US3 in NYC and AMS.
My point is more it shows how far away AA is in these key markets.
It's New York City - create your own O&D.
AA should never have gotten itself into the position where they can only fill a A321xlr on NYC-AMS.
I'm not advocating they fly a widebody just for S&Gs, but that it is fairly stark that this is all they can fly on the route.
AA was also underutilizing its JFK slots because they just forgot about it.
They don't have feed because they do trash flying on RJs to squat at JFK, and choose to do connections over PHL, DCA, and CLT instead of choosing to compete.
AA theoretically had the most premium experience at JFK for years before everyone else, with Flagship check-in and the triple joint premium lounges, but failed to convert on it and now all the competition has caught up or surpassed them in NYC.
AA utilized faa slot waivers, true. Your “they forgot” about their slots is an amusing thing to say and I know what you’re referencing but also not really true. AA ended up with more jfk slots than they had record of at the end of it.
But it is certainly true that B6 and delta have been picking up jfk slots for around twenty years now while AA did not.
AA uses dual class RJs in and out of JfK and their usage of them pales in comparison of delta’s RJ usage there
I don’t really disagree about AA squandering their flagship lounge and T8 space since around 2012
But I also think the infatuation with AA in NYC is tired. There is no path for AA to change its destiny. The DOJ enforced AA’s NYC position for the long term when they forced AA to divest LGA slots for the AA-us merger even though delta already had more slots than the combined carriers.
IMO, it would be fruitless for AA to go after a lot of b6 jfk slots at some point in the future when the DOJ has already determined who the LGA “winner” is — delta — more than a decade ago.
You need an equivalent slot portfolio at LGA if AA is going to go after more jfk slots. The local market prefers LGA for domestic flying
AA’s path in the big markets is clearly lax, not NYC. They’ll maintain a significant presence in NYC and will likely remain the better option if you value upgrades and better mileage deals but that’s not something corporate customers decide on
Lax is where AA has the most potential to increase share in the next five years
That's a really interesting take, Max. For sure, it's easier to add capacity at LAX than in slot- controlled NYC, but I am not sure that "if you build it, they will come" applies beyond the movie Field of Dreams. No airline is perfect but AA manages to shoot itself in the foot on customer service (more properly, lack thereof) more than most other carriers. LAX is an extremely competitive market. Both DL and UA have strongholds there, as well as a huge number of foreign carriers, such that no carrier truly has market dominance. That does make for potential opportunities but it also involves survival of the fittest. How fit do you think AA is? And how do you expect they will expand at LAX--domestically, internationally, or both?
Hey Steve
Obviously just my opinions. There just isn’t any obvious opportunity for AA to grow to parity with delta a United in NYC that I can see. JFK? Sure. B6 liquidates and AA buys slots but that doesn’t solve the distant second place at LGA for AA
Lax is different in that AA has the most gates post construction of all US airlines and has already said they plan to grow to be the largest metal at lax post terminal construction (Robert isom interview with the dallas newspaper a few months ago)
So in NYC, I don’t see the ability for AA to achieve parity:
In lax, you’re absolutely right. Very competitive market but AA already has parity there and has the ability to be the largest for some time.
They already have strong partners or are on every major business market out of lax: TYO, LHR, syd, HKG even if they don’t fly the routes like hkg. Hell, I’m not going to make everyone laugh by suggesting Air Tahiti Nui is some strong competitor vs AF and Delta. It isn’t but aa even has full codeshare on lax-cdg for their customers if they want to stay in the aadvantage ecosystem
The reason I brought up lax is the wild card: Alaska. Many sites, including this one (I think this one) have mentioned the likely AA-as domestic revenue JV likely to be filed post election if I’m guessing
That’s probably the biggest change to the status quo at lax in decades and would allow AA and AS to pool resources to create a true gate advantage vs dl and UA.
Which would then likely lead to AS joining the two AA TPAC Joint ventures
But the bigger thing with lax for AA are the non-lax SoCal airports.
Many in Southern California have their preferred airports (bur, ont, sba, Sna, lgb, etc) and don’t use lax as their primary airport but almost more like a jfk in some respects
Oneworld and star are highly highly relevant in those secondary airports. Delta just isn’t in the same league in their ability to allow loyal lax customers to utilize their preferred airport.
AA customers can already fully access the secondary airports on AA or AS via the west coast alliance but a revenue JV would obviously make this even stronger for the LA oneworld airline
Long ramble by my but that’s the gist of why I don’t see the runway in NYC for AA but I do see the obvious potential in lax.
I just gave you a helpful vote for that last post, Max. Yes, as you said, it's just your opinion, but you have clearly thought about this a lot.
A couple of things:
1. I really don't see AS and AA being allowed to create a revenue sharing domestic JV, even post-election. It sounds too much like the West Coast version of the B6-AA alliance and would likely be rejected for the same reasons.
2. AS does have gates at LAX but Google AI says the total number is only 16. If that's correct, would combining gates with AA really be a game changer? That's a real question, not rhetorical. I suppose it could be.
3. Your take on the importance of smaller airports in California is spot on. AS is in almost every one of them, with nonstops to SEA and PDX. That doesn't help AA with JFK travelers if they can get nonstops on other carriers but it might help them with Asian and European destinations via SEA. I suspect AS is very interested in getting into AA's international oneworld JVs and this would be a good reason for AA to be amenable to that. I suspect it would also be easier to get approved than a domestic JV, at least in the USA.
@steve
Certainly not a dogmatic opinion from me. Just thoughts on the future about where AA can succeed. I just don’t see anything remotely related to parity in NYC
Per your point 1, without getting into the entire “who approved what and when”
Trump’s DOT approved the b6-AA alliance
Biden’s DOJ sued to stop it
Trump’s DOJ certainly could’ve sued as well but that would’ve been some pretty awful coordination at the cabinet level — though given the rough timing of all that around 1/6/2021, there was certainly some miscommunication going on at the end of his first term, to say the least 😉
Just saying I’m not convinced DOJ would sue. Plus, doj’s biggest issue with b6-AA was Boston overlap and stupid things that b6, in particular, put in writing for the feds to use in the suit.
Consumer oversight by DOJ… let’s just say I don’t see that as a priority right now…
But to point 2, AA-as gates at lax aren’t going to give them 50% market share, you’re absolutely right. Just enough of a plurality advantage to make a difference for corporate customers and consumers
3. We don’t disagree but Take a look at flightconnections.com if you haven’t looked at the AS portfolio of nonstops out of secondary socal airports lately, it’s pretty impressive. It’s a lot more than pdx and sea.
@MaxPower--thanks for the flightconnections.com suggestion. I hadn't used that website before. For this kind of thing, it's much easier to use than flightsfrom.com.
Having done that, I would say that AS does serve all the socal airports but for most of them (SNA, BUR, ONT, LGB, SBA, SBP, FAT), there don't appear to be AS nonstops to the East or Midwest. From some of them, one can fly as far east as Tucson, but that's about it. And a few of them offer Hawaii flights or flights to Santa Rosa. Mostly, they offer SEA (and sometimes also PAE) and PDX flights. OTOH, SAN really does have a pretty good portfolio of nonstops on AS and some of the socal airports farthest from LA (SBA, SBP, FAT) have nonstops to SAN as well as SEA and PDX. It seems that SAN has become a mini-hub for AS.
SO, I still think your idea has merit. If AA and AS really could have a domestic JV, I can see AS adding more nonstops from ONT, SNA, BUR, and LGB. Of course, that may not include NYC because of slot constraints.
Thanks for inspiring me to perform this little exercise. It was enlightening.
No chance that AA goes all in on LAX (even with the new Terminal 5 rebuild) after it gave up on its long haul routes:
PEK
PVG
HKG
GRU
EZE
Sad to see what AA has become at LAX.
Kaleb, you make an excellent point. OTOH, AA is in a TPAC JV with JL and CX. Mainland China has become problematic for a few reasons: first, there was a closure due to Covid and now, geopolitical issues make it difficult to get Chinese permission to resume flights there. That could change over time.
I just worry about AA's willingness to compete. Their long haul record at SEA is even worse than at LAX. They were supposed to provide oneworld long hauls out of SEA to help AS but they bailed on LHR after a short time. BLR and PVG were both announced but never happened, due to Covid and the closure of Russian airspace (BLR). From the perspective of Alaska Airlines, given failed partnerships for international nonstops from SEA from both DL (who actually did start long hauls but then cut AS out by setting up their own domestic hub) and then AA, it's not all that surprising that AS finally decided to operate its own international long hauls out of SEA!
Except that Amsterdam was one of TWA's last successful routes from JFK that had operated for decades.... and Delta, Continental, and KLM/Northwest, have all successful served the NYC-AMS market for decades, and AA thought it was wiser to waste money from from ORD to Moscow in the early 2000s...... AA's inability to connect all hubs to Amsterdam is such a mystery.
Except that Amsterdam was one of TWA's last successful routes from JFK that had operated for decades.... and Delta, Continental, and KLM/Northwest, have all successfully served the NYC-AMS market for decades, and AA thought it was wiser to waste money from from ORD to Moscow in the early 2000s...... AA's inability to connect all legacy hubs to Amsterdam is such a mystery.
as is the case with all-things-AA these days, the expansion is "whatever"
This is great stuff from AA. No one even remembers what UA announced a few days ago.
This is just restoring capacity to JFK-LHR. They were flying 4 dailies last year, went down to 3 this year. So not even actual growth either.
Mhm, bold of them to call that a 'new' route. Wait, is 'marketing' just 'lying'?
Sure but 2x 787-9P is a good thing. The 777s are really showing their age. Glad they are getting retrofitted.
I'm liking the new flight options out of Philly. Not a huge fan of the A321 for an international flight, but I've flown the A321 Neo from Philly to Seattle and it was a comfortable flight, so to Reykjavik it would be more than fine, especially if the front was marketed as premium economy.
Vienna is the route I'd be most likely to take in the near future. I know Ben has highly recommended Iceland in the past and do second that for those who haven't been.
So cool, it’s super difficult to catch One World flights from the East coast to London. I’m glad American is stepping in there to fill that gap!
Where is my OMAAT luggage tag???
Well that’s not nothing, but it’s a lot fewer routes than I was imagining.
United and Iceland Air already have flights to Rekyavik. I can't imagine American flying a cramp Neo to Iceland is going to be a big drawn, but who knows.
It seems like most USA-Iceland traffic these days uses narrow bodies, even from the West Coast. So, I don't think the A321neo will put AA at a disadvantage. From SEA, Icelandair uses the same aircraft type while Alaska uses the 737 Max 8--and it's a much longer route from here than from PHL.
Hope AA would do a PHL flight to Asia soon. If they do, where do you think it would be?
Agreed. The question is, would AA try PHL-Tokyo on its own metal or try to get JAL to do it? Given JAL's superior seating (particularly in Economy) and service, people in Philly would probably be happier with JAL on the route. I have no idea how much traffic there would be, though. It seems like Philly has a significant ethnically Asian population but likely not Japanese. What business connections are there between Philly and Japan? Would PHL flights cannibalize other Tokyo routes operated by the oneworld TPAC JV? OTOH, a NRT route would provide a lot of onward feed all over Asia, via JAL.
The larger asian populations here are Vietnamese and Cambodian which don't lend themselves to long haul flights that would make sense from here. There is somewhat of a Chinese population, but not enough to support a long haul. If I had to guess it would be them just using Philly as a hub to bring in traffic from other places in which case I guess Tokyo would make the most sense. Even then unless if someone is an AA diehard, United flies to both Narita and Haneda from EWR. I just don't see how it would make sense for them.
Thats a great observation. I used to live in Center City and you are spot on. Corporate travel in the Delaware Valley (Asia bound) if served well via EWR or JFK.
I was a travel manager in Phila, I remember it well.
Thanks, @phillytraveler. I knew there were substantial Vietnamese and Chinese populations in Philly but was unaware of the Cambodian community. I think your analysis is valid. Thanks for the response--and if you have good Cambodian restaurants there, please let us know. In the Seattle area, the Cambodian population is a small subset of a large East Asian community and Cambodian restaurants have come and gone.
@steve_from_seattle Depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for casual hole in the wall I'd recommend New Phnom Penh
Philly is also home to Mawn which is generally considered one of the best more upscale Cambodian places in the US (it definitely verges a bit into fusion). I'd rate it my number 2 overall Asian restaurant in the Philly area behind Kalaya which is a popular Thai place that has been featured on Chef's Table among other places. Here is the NYT review Mawn
It's sister restaurant Sao which I'd term more of a seafood spot with a Cambodian lineage was just named one of Bon Appetit's best new restaurants in the US, but I personally haven't been yet but based on Mawn being excellent and the positive press I'd say is worth a visit. Sao
We can cheer and we can complain. For AA, it comes down to financial performance. If it doesn't pan out, the board needs to take action. They've allowed this (whatever) to go on too long.