American AAdvantage Rejects Delta SkyMiles Changes

I would like to believe that DL had a methodical process of determining how many fliers they wanted at each status level and set the thresholds accordingly.

I wish them the best, as I treat them the way they treat me: replaceable.

Plus AAdvantage miles are worth far more than Skymiles. I needed to book MIA-LHR 2 days ago and AA was selling F1 At $15k (flight was sold out) but they also made it available for 90k miles. That would never ever happen with delta.

When AA came out with a Loyalty Points, it was a new and different methodology of earning elite status. It was very innovative, which was refreshing for American Airlines. With the most recent changes to the Delta SkyMiles program, it seemed like Delta was copying American Airlines for a change. Additionally the Delta levels are so high it has mostly been viewed as very negative. It’s a welcome change to see American Airlines as the innovator, and Delta as less original.

How Tim Dunn reads Ben’s headline:

“American AAdvantage Rejects Tim Dunn”

They have lied before, no reason to believe they have stopped.

Dont listen what they say, see what they do.

Can’t wait for “Tim” to log on to his DL C-suite computer and copy-paste the directives given to him by DL financial and marketing teams pertaining to their talking points about how “DL had a revenue premium, because people like us more than you; DL doesn’t need elites” … blah blah blah

Way too much to write here, check this out https://www.facebook.com/100063479743057/posts/pfbid02ZfunfdqAiQ2JFrgs8VYVS6di9M5hZ5DaUEpxGwx3fnChKP8gbd5SX9sxwatt6s2al/?mibextid=cr9u03

A move to revenue-based models is the thing. Finnair moved to a revenue-based model for both earning points and tier status. BA and Iberia have moved to a revenue-based model for earning points and I suspect the second shoe to drop will be a similar move for tier status. One by one. As with AA, as time goes on, each airline will assess what tweaks are needed. Don't be surprised if we see more tweaks from AA.

Another argument to be made is that AA has a better award program, as they have access to more compelling partners.

AA miles are certainly better for getting to Asia, as they have access to Cathay Pacific and Japan Airlines, among others. Also they have access to Qatar and Qantas awards.

This is a great opportunity for other carriers to gain business from all the delta platinums and diamonds that have been “shafted”. Deltas error was the scale of the shaft. If they’d done a 10-20% increase would’ve been much different. 50% is a clear F-U.

This I 100% agree with. If the thresholds were 4000/10000/15000/25000 MQD, we'd be hearing crickets.

Ben/Lucky-You are absolutely correct in your analysis. Against their historical track record, American has done something very positive for all concerned with the introduction of Loyalty Points. It’s a “feel good” program as opposed to the sour grapes of Delta’s.

Unfortunately I still don't see the value in AA Executive Platinum status. System wide upgrades that are rarely available at booking, a domestic lounge that is no better than most priority pass lounges and for my routes AA domestic first class fares that are more expensive than Delta. All said, in 2024 there is little incentive to chase any of the big 3 status - just fly the airline that offers the best flights for your needs - don't worry about the loyalty.

On top of that, AA has a better international business class seat than DL (and UA).

AA’s policy of only allowing access to the Admirals Club for International first class ticket holders is ridiculous. I pay a lot of $ for domestic first class tickets and have been an AAAdvantage member for decades and previously was an Executive card holder but do not travel as much for business any longer so it did not make sense cost-wise. But AA needs to open the club to all first class ticket holders.

Ben,

I am going to re-qualify for American Gold through March 2025 via a flight this week and a prior hotel stay, so I'm open to doing more American. But they need to improve the clubs nationwide and improve the NYC network. A major renovation of the Admirals Club at JFK would be a better strategy to get more Delta flyers over to American than sending out marketing letters to the press, bloggers, etc.

That’s just not the practice in the US, and even AS, which was an outlier, stopped doing that with the exception of Hawaii and Transcon flights. There just isn’t the lounge capacity to handle giving all domestic F passengers lounge access.

I think it is misleading to suggest AA has not already devalued their program. The redemption of miles for flights is incomprehensible versus 5 years ago. Regarding Delta, it is reasonable for an airline to reward flight revenue more highly than credit card spend. While SkyMiles is highly profitable, it’s the flight operations that give value to the program. Lastly, if you’re a Delta Diamond road warrior today, the new requirements doesn’t seem that impossible. $20k on flight, $50k in cc spend on hotels and rental cars that essentially represent double points and you’re there.

You are wrong Ben. 20 years ago, when, in addtion to DL, AA and UA, there was Continental, USAir and Northwest, yes, no airline could get away with it. Not now. Where will DL cystomers go to? UA and AA don't have the capacity to absorb them, AS and SW don't have the network, and none of them have the hubs DL has. DL customers are captive and helpless hostages, as are AA and UA passengers.

@ Regis -- Nowhere am I saying that people will or should stop flying Delta. All I'm saying is that I think many people will be less engaged in the SkyMiles program, especially for non-flying activity. People can keep flying the airline, but choose to shift their credit card spending elsewhere, no?

@ Anthony -- Yeah, the American Admirals Club situation at JFK isn't good at all, and for that matter, the carrier's domestic network out of JFK isn't good either. It's hard to make a compelling case for being loyal to American out of the New York area, rather than Delta or United.

I am at 130,000 loyalty points without even stepping my feet on AA this year, so from me Delta would be happy. it's just an addiction for me

@ Jto -- No one is saying that American hasn't devalued its program. It has done so in many ways over the years. However, for the savvy traveler, there are lots more ways to redeem AAdvantage than SkyMiles for outsized value.

@ Deb L. -- As noted by DWT, that's just not something any US airline does. And for that matter, clubs really don't have the capacity to handle all those passengers.

Well looks like I am switching to AA. I have their branded MC already. But I have both a personal Detla Reserve and a business one.
I already have Delta status for next year. So looks like I will be using that opportunity to get American status for 2025.
Delta is shooting themselves in the you know what. What a dumb move. How much do they think consumers are going to take before switching?

@ Greg -- I don't necessarily think everyone/anyone should specifically pursue status. But I do think that if you're going to pursue status, there's more value with American than Delta. At last you can get into American clubs without waiting, and I think Delta has the same issue as American when it comes to confirmable upgrade space (along with lots of other restrictions that American doesn't have).

Thats strange. I have an AA Executive card and flew first class twice this year on AA and got lounge access both times.

Regis, both UA and AA have the capacity & capability to "absorb" multiple tens of thousands of DL passengers over a period of time (which is how most people travel). I would even argue that if even 5k "heavy travelers" each leave DL for AA/UA that it would have a significant effect on DL. I'm EXP with AA and take about 20-30 FC segments a year. Take that same profile and multiply it X 10k lost DL customers and they are hurting. If 100k "normies" that take say 2 trips and year leave DL in addition to those mentioned previously, Tim Dunn's brain would explode.

I thought AA/BA just completely renovated multiple lounges at JFK? I know one was First Class, one was Business Class, and I thought the other was the Admirals Club. Am I wrong?

TISH: You answered Your own querie. You have an Exec Card. That's the only reason You were granted access. Domestic FC (paid/upgrade/award) are not allowed lounge access for ANY US airline.

Deb: No one has the room for all the Baby Boomers that want to load up on crackers and cheese. Get a new CC and You'll get back into purse stuffing. Domestic FC (paid/upgrade/award) are not allowed lounge access for ANY US airline. This has been like that for YEARS now.

And Etihad and many other carriers.

I hope not too many other "tweaks". I actually think this past year's change on Loyalty Point Rewards was wrong. They were not taking into account that most members had am additional 4 months of flying/spend and TWO Christmas spends on that earning year. I think this year the ranks of higher tier members will be reduced massively. I earned nearly 370k LP's that first year, this year I'm only at 122k thus far. Last year I earned 3 LP levels, this year I haven't earned even 1 yet and may have trouble getting to the 2nd level (250k).

I still fly DL based on need, but credit everything (points snd XP) to Flying Blue.

I don’t need status on US carriers because it gets me pretty much nothing I don’t already get with a first class ticket, and I don’t fly US carriers internationally.

That said, DL really has done a nice job alienating their frequent flyers who don’t spend trillions a year, least of all on DL credit cards.

Ben,

I think we all hope your analysis of AA's intent in reaching out to the bloggers is correct. However, not moving the status goalposts means little if AA devalues Awards by another 30%, guts Partner saver awards, further devalues the hotel and shopping programs, etc.

The thing is, AA could easily go full out recruiting Delta converts between now & March 1st, based on status thresholds that are obviously more palatable and achievable, and still massively devalue the program with no notice. Basically, making the status thresholds worthless.

AA recently modified its T&C's, stating that though they gave advance notice of changes the past two years, that didn't mean they'd continue to do so. (Although I don't understand why, given they could always do with the previous T&C's, but they clearly had some reason for modifying the T&C's to make this crystal clear to even the most casual flyer layperson who might read them or cry foul after the fact.)

AA showed with their no notice mid-season devaluation of the AAH program and insertion of a nasty punitive 15K earn cap per hotel stay, that they no qualms doing just that when it suits their purpose.

I agree with you AA's program is much better. NOW. At this moment (1:12 PM 9/24 EDT). I simply don't trust AA's intentions as much as I did prior this summer. They earned my trust with the way they handled the changeover to LPs -- a few baubles and I personally didn't like some of their changes -- but overall, I felt if they were going to do it anyway, they did a good job by the customers in general. However, they pretty blew up the goodwill and trust they earned, with significant changes three months into the 2023 program year. And cemented it off with some fairly alarming language in the T&C changes a few weeks ago. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about this.

The Delta flyers need to realize that just because the grass is greener now, AA could burn that grass with weed killer in an instant. Unfortunately, they are no different than Delta in that regard.

If you have any insights on the changes to AA's T&C's, that'd be a great article BTW.

@BenjaminGuttery - there are 3 AA/BA lounges at JFK - Soho, Chelsea, and Greenwich. All three are business class lounges. The one Admirals Club is still one of the old ACs.

I agree with Ben. Skymiles have been so worthless I'd been crediting them to VS since 2018. Now more will probably redirect their mileage earning to other SkyTeam carriers like KLM or VS.

Got it, I avoid JFK when going to NYC. LGA is newer and has a nice Admirals Club. But I'm DFW based.

I agree that I was frustrated and surprised when they upped the goals for 2023 as well. IF the elite ranks swelled from the previous year, it was because everyone had 2 Christmases of CC charges and an additional 4 months to earn. That would have easily worked itself out the following year without increasing the goals for us all. I will say that I earned 370 LP's that 1st qualification year (16 months), but now 7 months into the current year and I'm barely at 122k LP's. With less opportunities to earn, at lower rates, and not as much time, I fear that I'll barely re-qualify for EXP much less get the first LP Choice Reward at 250k LP's. I know I'm not alone.

This is good to see but just how high up is this AA spokesperson? Are they simply following orders by saying something to temporarily placate AAdvantage members while more devaluations are looming?

When AA went to that plan and then raised the points needs and dropped the benefits about a year ago (and I was nearly re-qualified) I moved 100% over to Alaska Airlines. Bye AA. About 15+++ years ExPlat and goodbye. I could earn it by flying. But then spending was key, even though I sometimes took up seats on flights less likely to fill (and thereby less costly to me but benefitting AA). I loved AA until US Airways merged. Liked them lots until Loyalty Points. 2 million miles but I had to give up! I fly them now as a OneWorld partner. As little as I can. Not for the other complaints I see here. For being disloyal to my and our loyalty!!

Exactly @Ben. That's what I think I'll do. I had a lot of my cc spend with DL because it was valuable to get MQMs even though I was blowing through the MQD threshhold. Now, if I hit the MQD threshold for Diamond (which I probably will) that's great. If not, that's fine but no need to spend on the cc. I don't spend enough money on all my cards put together to make a dent in the spend requirement. So, if I'm a few bucks short at the end of the year, sure. But most corporate travelers have corporate cards and don't put a ton of dollars on cards that earn, even with large travel spend.

Agree - better partners and better redemption rates. Very few (if any) opportunities for aspirational awards on DL and partners using skymiles anymore.

You're right, DL would give it to you for about 650K miles. If that.

I am one who gets the majority of my EP status with credit card spend, though I do fly too. I chase status to get points to redeem for international trips. I am booked Business Class in November from ORF-JFK stopover and then to Tokyo using just 80,000 American points that was booked last December. I'm booked on UA back to EWR that I got last December buying 175,000 UA points during a promo, and the one way business fare was then 175,000. Now if I want a 1 way return from Tokyo to JFK on JAL, it takes 450,000 AA points, and it is not even the nonstop flight. The same return on UA is now 200,000, but it had been much higher only a few months ago. I used my Amex Platinum to transfer miles to Delta and flew them, but their mileage requirement have been crazy for several years, and I stopped flying Delta unless I have to. One advantage of flying UA is that as long as there is a seat on the plane, it is bookable with miles. No hold backs. Unfortunately, I do not fly UA enough, and have to depend on buying miles on sale if it is a good value for a specific flight, but am limited in how many I can buy per year. Everyone is devaluing miles.

In other words and on a worldwide basis, the Delta devaluation will put a damper on further restricting a lot of airlines' FF programs.

It's obvious this is a golden opportunity for AA to snag Delta flyers. It's worked for me: I'm now an Executive card holder, booked all my upcoming work travel on American or Alaska, and looking forward to priority checkin, priority boarding, unlimited Admiral's Club access, upgraded food at Admiral's Clubs supposedly rolling out over the next year (yes, I'll believe it when I see it, but early reports are that at least SOME airports it actually is a step up), MUCH better international point redemptions, cross-earning points with Hyatt, and still not great customer service but it is *getting better* by all accounts: while Delta has been steadily declining year after year... it's a no brainer. And they have lots of incentives NOT to follow Delta down this bizarre path which to my mind will drive people away from the airline and away from credit card spend, even more importantly.

Feel like few to no bloggers wrote about the hotels program getting gutted

Hi Tish,
If you already have Delta status, you should call AA and see if you are eligible for a status match which can give you immediate responding status on AA for at least 4 months and then you can earn a higher status based on “loyalty points” and not miles flown of dollar amount spent. I earned Platinum pro (One World Emerald) with 2 business class flights LAX-EZE & LAX-CDG, 15 hotel night stays, $300 purchases from eshopping. I used my CitiBusiness/ AAdvantage Platinum Business Select MC to charge the plane tickets, hotels using AAdvantage and Rocket Hotels (before the new AAdvantage Hotel program in July) I also booked hotels through Agoda, & booking.com not using the AA program if it was a lot cheaper for the same hotel, otherwise if the price was only 10% more and the loyalty points were at least 1000 points, it was a no brainer. The AAdvantage eshopping, it’s shopping on the brand name website and you pay the same and sometimes things are on sale too! I love Adidas shoes and got them on sale, free shipping and free return and 10 miles/$ (it’s usually 5 miles/$ but it was a special) so I spent $150 & earned 1500 miles (points) Home Depot and Lowe’s also earn miles! I earned Platinum Pro status 125,000 points in June, 2023 and it’s good until March, 2025. Now I’m using my Chase Sapphire Reserve to pay for my tickets on Qatar business/first tickets which gives me 3x/$ and with the Chase travel insurance and my Allianz travel insurance I’m covered in case I need to cancel my flight. Did I mention that Qatar is a One World partner and with Business class, AA is at least 100% of the miles flown and First Class is at least 150%. Unfortunately, this flight is in February, 2024 and it is still part of the qualifying period for 2025!

Great idea not to credit to Delta. I’m going to do the same. How’d you pick Flying Blue?

Exactly this. We had a delta card because we actually saw small upgrades pretty frequently and found decent value in the 15% discount to awards. Now it’s basically an annual fee for discounted award flights, simply not worth it. All that spend is going straight into a CSR or Ink.

What you are missing is that staus isnt really worth chasing on any US airline. With free upgrades hard to get, all you are getting is early boarding, bonus miles, a free bag and a dedicated phone line to cut the line.

It is great to fly AS if you live in Seattle or fly transcons from JFK to SFO/LAX/SEA/SAN. It has no value if you are flying from NYC to secondary eastern airports such as CMH, BUF, BNA...

As a JFK flyer AA cant get me where I need to go compared to DL. Try flying JFK to LAS or SLC, that is a no. If you live on LI/Queens/Bklyn and you want to fly, you are either taking a connection or flying B6 or DL.

I live in a city where DL and AA are interchangeable. I’ve been a Delta loyalist for years because of my Amex Platinum but with the new change am seriously considering switching both the airline (to AA) and the Amex Platinum to something else. The biggest perk for me in the card was lounge access but the guest policy for DL lounges worsened a while ago and now limiting visits per year is the final straw.

@Ben would you rather go to AAs lounge at JFK without a line, or DL's lounge at SLC or LGA which is superior in a lot of ways? Wish AA had more lounges like DCA, but they dont have the capital to renovate them.

If the levels are too high, DL will adjust with bonus point promotions. This is what SW did for the companion pass during the first 3 months of the year when you could qualify with only 1 paid flight.

Yes getting EP status on AA is easy, but what do you get? Nothing. I left AA last year for United, yes requalifying for 1k is harder, but for me when I need assistance the 1K line is there. AA EP line is a massive wait time, at least it was for the last two years and the airline screwed me with their guesses that I could or could not make a connection. AA is the worst for someone who actually flies regularly, it is better for the occasional flyer who for those 2 or 3 annual trips, maybe one abroad, they get the flagship lounge, a great perk, but if you fly regularly AA is a bad match.

For me it is the dedicated help line. On united you do get additional plus points that can be used like miles, but yeah often times you are waitlist, but at least you on at the top of the list and more likely to get upgraded

I can’t speak for the others but United is absolutely worth it. I have 1k status and it is miles ahead of a non-status member. Preboarding is the least of the benefits. I do get upgraded on around half of my flights. I get economy plus on the ones where I don’t. I get three free checked bags up to 70lbs, and since I carry tools, that is very helpful. The 1k line and priority for standby flights are just a few of the benefits. Oh, and Clear is free.

Seriously, the benefits of United 1k status are so numerous that I can’t even list them all off the top of my head.

Yeah, AS sent me a status match letter. But my home airport of IND only has as AS flight to Seattle. Hardly useful to me.

Status via credit card spend does not make sense. The benefits are not enough to justify not having the return that using another card could give or the flexibility depending on the type of card.

Not sure why anyone but captive (corporate travel, hub city residents, etc.) flyers would credit their flights to a U.S. carrier when quite a few foreign carriers give a much bigger bang for the buck when it comes to transferable points or flight credit.

In my case, based on my planned travel for the next few years, I'm planning to earn Star Alliance Gold through Aegean and once that's done, credit flights to Avianca.

As far as choosing an airline other than a U.S. airline, it's somewhat exhausting to pick the best one but, in a nutshell, it comes down to three factors: which airline will give the highest credit for the flights one takes, which airline partner with one's choice of transferable bank points (some great airlines don't partner with any banks), and which airlines are least expensive for the award redemptions one wants; for example, I find Avianca to be somewhat less expensive than United and significantly less expensive than Aeroplan for flights that I want to take and Avianca partners with all the major transferable point issuers except Chase Ultimate Rewards and has frequent, low-cost points sales.

AA may not up it's requirements next year but I'd bet money that by 2025 there will be increases in either cc spending and flight spend. AA has also begun to heavily monetize the domestic premium cabin and that will continue. Face it, unless you're a huge cc spender or paying significant money on flying the airlines just won't be into you.

I am a Delta million miler and have carried the Delta Amx since 1996, I am Platinum on Delta thru 2024 after that all things are up for grabs. Not likely I will stay will Delta, I will show them the same loyalty they have shown me.

"Great idea not to credit to Delta. I’m going to do the same. How’d you pick Flying Blue?"

Flying Blue has some good award redemption rates on AF and KLM, I have Plat status on FB (which allows me to get (arguably price gouged) awards on AF La Première), and in general I've found FB to be a satisfactory program that allows me to keep Plat status relatively easily. Note that getting Plat the first time can be very expensive, but maintaining it is relatively easy (for me).

Delta sucks. I used to fly from USA to Thailand 3-5 times a year between 2008 and 2016. Up until Delta swallowed Northwest the long trips were pleasant. Once Delta took over there was a very noticeable decline in quality. Bangkok Airway departure lounge in Koh Samui which is open to all passengers offers more amenities, better food and better service than any of the Over crowded sky miles lounges. It's really sad that Delta refuses to send any of their staff to Koh Samui and learn what customer service can be like.

Regardless of which airline is the leading "devaluator" I would recommend that anyone who uses co-branded credit cards toward LPs/FF status check out this YouTube video on just how much revenue the airlines drive from these programs. Link to the video here: https://youtu.be/ggUduBmvQ_4?si=9tFfy7J87lqRY6mx

My wife and I have been loyal customers of Delta for years. We both have an AE Platinum card. We always book first. I have been a diamond member for 10 years but lost that status after covid. But still buy first class even as the prices have escalated. So, if I have a full fare first ticket and AE platinum card and I will have limited access to Sky Club? Come on Delta: rethink that policy!

Delta is overplaying it's hand! Tried getting into a Delta SkyClub during a delay in Atlanta and after waiting on line was denied entry!

Wish I could turn over my delta miles to American

In order for Delta to justify the hike in thresholds they need to vastly improve their hard and soft products otherwise there is no incentive to spend the kind of money they are asking to retain my status. On my most recent trip (the first since they made their changes) on both legs there were broken first class seats which required some medallions members to be downgraded. Previously, I found it very easy to overlook their faults and my negative experiences but now they are amplified even more so. I have definitely started looking at my airport & flight experience differently and it just re-affirmed my gut instinct that A. its not worth it to try to maintain my current status going into 24/25 and B. I'm definitely going to be looking at all of my options so far as a new credit card and a new primary carrier. Already JetBlue and Alaska are trying to get our business and they offer very compelling incentives. I'm going to wait it out a bit longer to see what else comes along but the research has already begun. Its kind of exciting in a weird way - like a breakup and now you're ready to start moving on.

American still falls short of Delta -- and United, for that matter -- in one important regard for those of us who fly for years in premium classes. When I retire after so much flying on Delta or United, I will be able to keep my elevated rank through their lifetime program. With American, there is no way to keep my OneWorld emerald status no matter how much I spend or fly. If I had been clever enough to do all that pricey AA flying while crediting the British Airways or Qantas programs, I could have earned emerald for life. But American won't even let me earn Platinum Pro status in their weak lifetime program. So I'm spending my last F/C flying decade on United, where it will be worth something.

Those that will make platinum or diamond with Delta are those that don't need status and probably borderline have the money to just charter a flight lol. RichRich

I’m a Delta diamond thinking about switching loyalty to American I live in Baltimore any thoughts on this read the article on Alaska airlines wonder if that’s even better switched just concerned about their flight pattern and as American honor an Alaskan frequent flyer??