KLM Royal Dutch Airlines has announced some long haul expansion for this winter, though new destinations aren’t necessarily being added in the way you’d expect.
Continue reading: KLM Adds Orlando Service With New Triangle Flight
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I think you're being overly optimistic about the lack of travel restrictions. While some parts of Europe may be open somewhat by then, there will continue to be travel bans, restrictions and other hurdles on the US side for passengers connecting from KLM's core transit markets in India, Middle East and Africa. For example the US has not been processing new tourist visas for any travelers anywhere in the world for over a year now and that situation is likely to remain until 2022 at least. The volume of inbound tourism to the US and Europe will be significantly lower this year, although domestic/regional tourism will somewhat make up for it.
Wait, so is KLM selling the MIA to MCO leg separately and operating it as a fifth freedom flight?
@Aaron - no. It's sabotage I believe - so can't be done. But anyway it's a triangle, so the flight will be potentially full of MIA-AMS travellers and AMS-MCO travelers at that point
They may carry passengers KL-Phuket though, I have taken the Singapore - Bali flight many times
Question though - does everyone have to clear immigration at MCO? I assume so based on the ground time and usual US process. that's quite an inconvenience !
Delta operated a daily MCO-AMS flight before the pandemic on a 767-300ER. Same from TPA. I'm actually surprised they won't operate it nonstop but won't be surprised for them to increase frequencies.
What fun, pick the wrong departure day and MCO travellers get to clear US CBP in MIA, before being allowed board for the short hop to MCO !
I think it's too optimistic to expect a big boost to long haul holiday travel.
The UK is the most vaccinated country in Europe, 72% have had at least one dose, yet in the last week Germany has closed to UK tourists, then followed by Austria. And now France will require all UK visitors to quarantine on arrival for 14days.
So firstly vaccination looks like not being the solution we all hoped it would be. Secondly, if you can't arrange a long weekend to France without it all going wrong when the rules change abruptly, who will spend thousands to book a winter holiday to Florida and risk that amount of cash and the stress of waiting weeks or months to get a refund when the rules could have changed repeatedly by then.
It's disappointing but it seems like it's going to take much longer to get back to normal than we hoped.
Very interested in the MIA-MCO and MCO-MIA segments only. Are these available independently?
It's naieve to assume travel will be as before. Miami, Orlando and Florida are mostly eldery destinations and many will not be willing to travel anymore...it'll take a period where people will get used to travel again.
@ BobTL -- Sorry, Miami is a destination for elderly Europeans? That certainly doesn't reflect my experience -- it's largely a destination for young Europeans looking to party and tan on South Beach.
@ Joe Chivas -- They won't be. A foreign airline can't sell domestic flights within the USA.
@Ben Sure there might be some youngsters but research shows this is just a small part (13%), shown here on page 17:
https://www.visitflorida.org/media/37150/2017-2018-vf-marketing-plan.pdf
The 2 hours on the ground seems weird. What will happen?
1) Through passengers don't get off the plane... that's seems a long time to wait on a plane
2) Through passengers get off the plane and clear immigration and customs. Everyone would have to deplane, pass through immigration, collect their bags, pass through customs then recheck bags, then repass security to reboard. US airports aren't really set up for this type of connection. 2 hours may be enough time in Orlando, but it is pretty risky in Miami where immigration and security queues are notoriously bad. Will the plane wait for any that get stuck or will it strand them?
It looks like its the latter. I know Qantas does it on its Sydney - LAX - JFK flight, but does any other airline do US triangles?
The BA City - JFK flight stopped in Shannon to clear immigration. Everyone got off, but was tunnelled through an area and you didn't have to pick up and recheck your bag--the agent just showed it you on a screen and was cleared in the back and reloaded.
@BobTL. the data you have shown is for Florida as a whole. I think @Ben's point was that Miami is not an elderly destination.
I agree with Ben... most elderly people are scared of Miami with its size and crime, not attracted to its hotspots (clubs, glitzy hotels, South Beach). I don't think the Golden Girls would live there today. However I agree that the rest of FL is biased to elderly eg Central Florida, West Coast, Keys and East Coast north of Miami.
Don't forget KLM did or still does operate "triangle" flights in S.E. Asia. For example, Jakarta to Singapore to Amsterdam.
As an Orlando resident, I’m excited! Since the pandemic, our service to Europe has dried up. @lucky, do you know what kind of aircraft KL is going to use? If it’s an upgrade over DL’s 767, I’ll be thrilled!
Perhaps, "... with new triangular flight". Why use Triangle (easily confused by some of us with Research Triangle or Research Triangle Park - RTP in NC) when there is Triangular (adj.)?
What’s more intersting here are routes that KL either never served before or have been withdrawn decades ago. BGS / POS / HKT
Do they have rights between those routes? Kul - hkt would be nice compared to the competition. No booze on MH. You get nice little houses to booth.
Assuming you meant SXM (SMX is a small regional airport in california) then that would be an additional 3 hours between SXM and MIA or vice versa causing all sorts of other issues such as pilot hours.
Plus it's likely KL can already fill a plane there anyway.
Matt says:
May 27, 2021 at 8:55 am
The BA City – JFK flight stopped in Shannon to clear immigration. Everyone got off, but was tunnelled through an area and you didn’t have to pick up and recheck your bag–the agent just showed it you on a screen and was cleared in the back and reloaded.
+++++
But that was just a variation on the SNN pre clearance system anyway where you check in as normal and clear normal security then when called you proceed to the pre clearance area for the extra security check and CBP agent who show you a picture of your luggage as part of the immigration process.
And to be accurate the stop at SNN was to refuel and the pre clearance was a bonus and wasn't available on the 2nd afternoon flight from LCY on a Friday as pre clearance was closed
Plus it was only a max of 32 pax plus 2 pilots and 3 cabin crew.
Passengers would have to clear immigration and customs in Miami I assume which would be annoying. Interesting if they would be allowed to sell tickets on the Orlando Miami flights because it appears to have a separate KLM number so it's not a continuation of the same flight
KLM continues the route of TUI (Netherlands) with this triangle flight, TUI flew this (holiday) route with flight numbers:
OR317 Amsterdam - Orlando - Miami and return flight OR318 Miami - Amsterdam until April 2020.
Dutch TUI flew this (holiday) route with flight number OR317 Amsterdam - Orlando - Miami and return flight OR318 Miami - Amsterdam until April 2020. KLM (Royal Dutch airlines) continues the route with this new triangle flight.