Air Canada will be shortly be taking delivery of their first Boeing 737 Max 8. Rather than just using the plane for domestic and transborder flights, Air Canada announced last week that they’ll also be using it for transatlantic flights, including the following:
AC820 Toronto to Shannon departing 10:00PM arriving 9:30AM (+1 day) [Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat]
AC821 Shannon to Toronto departing 10:30AM arriving 12:45PM [Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat]
AC818 Montreal to Dublin departing 9:15PM arriving 8:25AM (+1 day) [Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat]
AC819 Dublin to Montreal departing 10:20AM arriving 12:00PM [Tue, Thu, Fri, Sat]
While I imagine these planes will still be primarily used for shorter flights, the decision to fly them transatlantic is interesting. This isn’t even Air Canada’s first transatlantic flight on a narrowbody aircraft. The airline also operates a flight from St. John’s to London Heathrow on an A319, though that flight is substantially shorter.
Anyway, up until now we haven’t actually known how Air Canada’s 737 MAX 8 would be configured. I assumed it would have a standard regional configuration, and that does indeed seem to be the case. Air Canada has now revealed the seatmap and specifications for their 737 MAX 8:
- The 737 MAX 8 will have 16 business class seats and 153 economy class seats
- Economy class seats will feature 30″ of pitch and 18″ of width
- Business class seats will feature 38″ of pitch and 21″ of width
- There will be a personal television at every seat (as a point of comparison, American has decided to eliminate personal televisions on their newest planes), as well as Wi-Fi
FlyerTalk member ctf12 shares the following rendering of the cabin from Air Canada’s investor day conference:
Here’s the seatmap for the new plane:
As a point of comparison, American’s 737 MAX 8 will have a total of 172 seats, so it will have three more seats than Air Canada’s configuration.
Air Canada’s configuration is identical to United’s 737-800s up until the exit row — United also has 16 first class seats, and then nine rows of extra legroom economy seating, including the two exit rows (that’s a lot of preferred seats). However, Air Canada manages to squeeze in an extra three seats in the back behind the exit row, though that seems to be accomplished by putting the bathrooms at the very back, rather than in front of the rear exits. In other words, the galley space will be smaller and cabin will be bigger.
Most of Air Canada’s narrowbody fleet presently has at least 31″ of seat pitch, so this is a downgrade in terms of personal space. However, with seat design changing, airlines are often able to reduce pitch with materially reducing legroom.
While not surprising, Air Canada will sell the forward cabin of these transatlantic flights as business class, even though the seat isn’t really competitive internationally. Pricing seems to be comparable to what you’d pay for a flat bed on a 777 or 787. For example, a roundtrip ticket between Toronto and Shannon will run you ~$2,900. Logically it seems like they should market it as premium economy in terms of the product offering, but I guess they do this because they can get away with it.
Hi all, took AC flight from Montreal to Dublin Ireland on the 737 max 8, had the two first row seats on right hand side of plane going to Dublin, for me at 6 feet legs had little room in the aisle seat, however on the return flight we were on the left hand side of plane and I felt that my aisle seat had a bit more legroom! Have photos but cannot figure how...
Hi all, took AC flight from Montreal to Dublin Ireland on the 737 max 8, had the two first row seats on right hand side of plane going to Dublin, for me at 6 feet legs had little room in the aisle seat, however on the return flight we were on the left hand side of plane and I felt that my aisle seat had a bit more legroom! Have photos but cannot figure how to get them onto this site, the seats for comfort are OK, but I would not "rave" about them though they are more comfy than those sitting in economy. AC for 2019 seems to be using the Airbus 330-300 for Montreal to Dublin flights, not sure how comfy the premium economy will be on that plane depending on their configuration for those flights. Any comments from anyone ?
Just flew on Air Canada's 737 max 8 for the first time between Montreal and Vancouver in economy. I have flown Air Canada's older A320, 777, 787 and CRJ900 and by comparison found myself for the first time having problems with leg room. I am 5'10 and my knees were already touching the seat in front. It seems like economy is really configured with seating of 30" pitch, an economy seat spacing less that that...
Just flew on Air Canada's 737 max 8 for the first time between Montreal and Vancouver in economy. I have flown Air Canada's older A320, 777, 787 and CRJ900 and by comparison found myself for the first time having problems with leg room. I am 5'10 and my knees were already touching the seat in front. It seems like economy is really configured with seating of 30" pitch, an economy seat spacing less that that of other Air Canada aircraft. I was traveling in the same row as a passenger seated by the aisle and at around 6' height, he had to angle his legs other into the aisle or into the space of the middle seat passenger. Not the best situation. Considering the flight was about 5 hours in duration and that the same aircraft is used for transatlantic flights I find it hard to understand why Air Canada configured their aircraft in such a manner. Seat comfort isn't the only issue. For passengers in economy it is necessary to access the aft cabin which is normally a zone separated for crew to work in the galley. Instead in this aircraft that space is now subdivided such that the right hand side of the aft cabin is devoted to the galley and the left hand side has access to two lavatories adjoined side by side. In line with the minimalist seating, the lavatories are also space savers featuring inward opening bi-fold doors. It has the same feeling as walking into a closet. To sum up the economy class experience flying the Air Canada 737 max 8 has less personal space and comfort compared to a regional jet that operates on flight durations that demand wide-body aircraft comfort.
My flight is in the first week of September.
@johnnieyul Did you take that flight in July and how were those first row seats? Am booked into row 1 on a YUL to DUB mid-september and now worry our bulkhead seats will be tight! All photos of front of plane omit to show that row.. Any comments ?
@bob there is plenty of room for legs in rows 2 and 3. Row 4 also has great recline but just ahead of economy.
I agree there isn't tons of overhead room. I would skip row 1.
Will be flying the Max8 YVR to YUL in July.
Just booked YUL to DUB for September in Premium Economy, any tips or suggestions about difference between row 1 and row 3 or 4 in that section? Heard there might not be overhead luguage compartment for row 1, but am concerned about being in bulkhead seat, will I have more space to stretch than the other rows ?
will be doing a whole new route vancouver to all the hawaiin islands starting november 2018. all rouge boeing 767 rouge will be terminate, no great lost . its a god end. these route will be running the new 737Max
The seats will be full, they always are.
Does anyone know if the seats in front of the exit rows recline?
A couple of weeks ago I booked Business Class on Air Canada from Western Canada to Shannon via Toronto for summer 2018. A few days ago I received an itinerary update, stating that my transatlantic flight was now Premium Economy. I called Air Canada Reservations and said that if they were withdrawing Business Class, I was withdrawing my fare. The agent said that there had been a change of aircraft and there was no Business...
A couple of weeks ago I booked Business Class on Air Canada from Western Canada to Shannon via Toronto for summer 2018. A few days ago I received an itinerary update, stating that my transatlantic flight was now Premium Economy. I called Air Canada Reservations and said that if they were withdrawing Business Class, I was withdrawing my fare. The agent said that there had been a change of aircraft and there was no Business Class on the new aircraft (737 Max). So I cancelled my flights without penalty and the agent rebooked me on the same flights, same seats, Premium Economy, for half the original fare. This proves that they are just trying to get away with calling it Business Class if they can. Don’t be fooled!
The 737 MAX uses the latest quiet engine technology for up to 40 percent less noise, meaning more peace and quiet for you.
We're flying YUL - KEF in this new AC plane in late August and back via EWR on a 757-200 ex-CO flatbed plane in early September. Will take pics and post!
As your seat chart shows, the first 9 rows of economy will be "O" class PY and will probably get 1-2" more pitch than 30" Y, on an overseas flight, they will possibly receive an upgraded meal tray including real cutlery, linen, small wine glass and china dishes.
As for Vij's comparison to WestJet: their Plus seating is more pitch, a blocked middle seat with a free sandwich and snack (and unlimited complimentary booze)....
As your seat chart shows, the first 9 rows of economy will be "O" class PY and will probably get 1-2" more pitch than 30" Y, on an overseas flight, they will possibly receive an upgraded meal tray including real cutlery, linen, small wine glass and china dishes.
As for Vij's comparison to WestJet: their Plus seating is more pitch, a blocked middle seat with a free sandwich and snack (and unlimited complimentary booze). AC's long haul J service includes 4 hot meal choices in china dishes, and two premium red, 2 premium whites as well as expanded beverages (Cranberry juice and Perrier). WestJet continues to charge for meals in Y on their overseas flights, AC still provides complimentary hot meals with choice of entrée and free booze in Y on Asia and Europe flights (not US, Mexico or Caribbean).
My experience of AC suggests grumpy FAs come standard regardless of galley size.
Two bathrooms for 153 Economy pax suggests there are going to be long queues after the meal service. Strong bladders required...
Any other short legged people appreciate the 18" width at least?
No ones talking about the lav situation. Those are tiny lavs in the back galley. Ever fly on a southwest or Virgin America plane with them back there?
Also, they’re significantly reducing their catering space. That’s going to lead to smaller meals, less meal components longer heating times (less ovens).
Lastly,you’ll have some very grumpy flight attendants who now have virtually zero personal space in the back galley.
I think this is all Angels on the Head of Pin talk. Spoilt rotten over a few hours on a plane.
Who goes from Canada to Shannon on a regular basis?
Happy about their decision to keep the IFE! Was worried they would claim "everyone brings a phone/tablet with their own TV shows and movies" and cheap out like American did. AC is definitely one of the better airlines when it comes to installing IFE's on pretty much their whole fleet. They even have IFE's on their AC Express CRJ-700s! Only aircraft smaller than the CRJ-700s don't have IFE's and those fly short enough routes anyways.
I flew JFK-KEF last year on DL. It was announced that by the day of my trip it was supposed to be on a flat-bed configuration. Instead it was a recliner, no pre-take-off sparkling as they provisioned for a domestic flight and gave away ear-buds instead of noise cancelling headphones for the same reason. Complained to DL and got 50k points re-deposited for a 125k redemption. I believe that on the longer MSP:KEF route it's consistently flat-beds.
I was under the impression that they were going to put lie flat reverse herringbone seats in biz class??? Or maybe I am thinking of another Max-8 operator.
it seems like DL is inconsistent about putting flat-beds on JFK-KEF based on FT
One thing to remember is that Air Canada brands their domestic front cabin as business class too. Thus it is in line with their domestic branding.
Do the preferred seats have extra pitch?
Also, you have a typo here and meant to say "without":
...airlines are often able to reduce pitch with materially reducing legroom.
I wouldn't pay J price for that seat either. Priced/marketed as Premium Economy? Now we're talking.
In terms of Air Canada pricing in the route, this is similar to when they started flying the ROUGE 763 to Rome from Montreal. Connecting via Toronto on an A330 or B77W was the same price as direct in Premium rouge - hardly comparable products.
The following summer they drastically reduced the price on the B76R to match premium economy prices, and eventually re-instated the A330.
While the price is high, ridiculous and unacceptable...
In terms of Air Canada pricing in the route, this is similar to when they started flying the ROUGE 763 to Rome from Montreal. Connecting via Toronto on an A330 or B77W was the same price as direct in Premium rouge - hardly comparable products.
The following summer they drastically reduced the price on the B76R to match premium economy prices, and eventually re-instated the A330.
While the price is high, ridiculous and unacceptable given there is no flat bed, I don't expect it to stay that high for a long time. No one will pay that price, when they can 1-stop via FRA and get a proper business class and flat bed.
I'm a little disappointed they haven't tried to follow JetBlue's MINT product. Surely they could have had a flat bed on a narrow-body if the plane is to be used TATL! Maybe on the Max9?
The business class seats look similar to Premium Rouge which I flew from Berlin to Toronto this summer (and which I highly recommend for a daytime flight), but that fare was at least CDN $400.00 cheaper than the fare you show for Ireland, and Berlin is a longer flight. I don't see this Ireland fare having any takers unless the price drops a lot.
It's too bad those premium cabin seats will be sold as business class (with business class prices). In comparison, on Canada's WestJet MAX aircraft, the premium seats will be marketed as premium economy; they'll offer the same amenities but with a significantly lower fare than what AC is offering.
There's something wrong with the stats; you cannot put an 18" seat in a Boeing narrowbody, only in an Airbus. The economy seats must be 17" wide -- can you check and correct the article?
@Lucky: "While I imagine these planes will still be primarily used for shorter flights, the decision to fly them transatlantic is interesting." AC uses these for everything and anything since they freely swap between their widebodies and narrowbodies on flights in North America. So, in other words, we'll be riding this from Halifax to Vancouver (5.5 hours), Montreal to SFO (5 hours), etc. etc. Lots of looooong flights, so I don't see why they similarly...
@Lucky: "While I imagine these planes will still be primarily used for shorter flights, the decision to fly them transatlantic is interesting." AC uses these for everything and anything since they freely swap between their widebodies and narrowbodies on flights in North America. So, in other words, we'll be riding this from Halifax to Vancouver (5.5 hours), Montreal to SFO (5 hours), etc. etc. Lots of looooong flights, so I don't see why they similarly lengthy European flight is any different.
MiQ seats
Same as CX A350 PEY...
Sweet relief. Personal IFE retained, seat pitch not ridiculous, and, humorously, the seats are actually wider than on their long-haul fleet.
DL and AA both get away with this by selling standard domestic FC at TATL J prices for US-KEF. Only stupid people pay that much for a cramped recliner seat.
@ William -- Unless I'm missing something, both airlines fly flat bed 757s to Iceland, no?