- Introduction: Good Morning Milan, Goodnight Moon
- Emirates A380 First Class With Dad: So Fun That I Needed A Day To Recover
- My Furious Emirates First Class Seat Mate: Fair Feedback, Unfair Delivery
- Emirates First Class Menu & Food: Fine Dining, Or Just Fine?
- Review: Park Hyatt Milan, Italy (Stellar, Central Hotel, But Missing Desks)
- Drinking Buy On Board Espresso In Air Dolomiti Economy…
- Review: Falkenstein Grand Koenigstein, Marriott Autograph Collection (Unique!)
- Review: Villa Rothschild Koenigstein, Marriott Autograph Collection (Cute!)
- Ugh: Misdirected Delay Frustration In The Lufthansa First Class Terminal
- Am I A Lufthansa Fanboy Or Hater? Let Me Set The Record Straight…
- Review: Goodnight Moon Suite At Sheraton Boston (INCREDIBLE!)
I’d like to think that I’m pretty receptive to feedback, and (for the most part) self-aware. That brings me to any time that I write about Lufthansa on the blog, and the interesting response I get, which I can’t fully make sense of.
I’m always surprised by how many people tell me that I’m some sort of a Lufthansa apologist or fanboy, or that I’ve absolutely lost my marbles for considering flying with Lufthansa. Like, even if I’m redeeming partner miles for travel in Lufthansa first class, some people come after me for what a horrible waste of miles that is.
Conversely, the irony is that I think if you asked anyone in Lufthansa management who reads this blog, they’d tell you that I’m far too harsh in how I cover the airline.
So, let me dedicate this post to sharing my perspective on Lufthansa, and then others are free to chime in, disagree with me, etc.
In this post:
I have a certain love and nostalgia for Lufthansa
Let me acknowledge that I absolutely have a soft spot in my heart for Lufthansa, for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the biggest reason is cultural — both of my parents were born in Germany, most of my relatives live in Germany, I have a German passport, etc. So there’s a sense of home and familiarity with Lufthansa.
When I was really young, my dad was an ex-pat working in New York for a German company, and he had status with Lufthansa, and flew the airline all the time. I fondly remember that whenever he had a business trip, he’d bring me home these delicious packaged cookies from the Senator Lounge, and it’s one of those memories from my childhood that I still remember as if it was yesterday.
For that matter, the ability to redeem miles for Lufthansa first class is what got me into miles & points in the first place. Every summer growing up, we’d spend weeks in Germany, and we’d typically fly leisure airline Condor, since it was cheapest. I absolutely loved flying, but at the age of 14 or so, I realized that I could mileage run to earn miles at a low cost, and then redeem those for us to fly Lufthansa first class in summer.
Over the years, there’s not an airline that I’ve flown more in first class than Lufthansa. I’ve easily done well over 100 segments in Lufthansa first class, and I suspect the actual number is significantly higher than that. My point is to say that I really want to love Lufthansa, and that it’s an airline that’s special to me.
The current reality of Lufthansa is a sad mess
I’m always surprised when anyone suggests that I’m overly nice about Lufthansa. I’d describe myself as being critical of the airline, but justifiably so (admittedly I’m biased!). Frankly, I’m confused how anyone could see it differently, but again, I recognize that maybe the way I express myself isn’t actually in line with how I feel.
So here’s my take: Lufthansa is currently a hot mess, and I don’t understand how the current management team is still in charge. Admittedly Lufthansa has also had really bad luck (like with the seven year plus delay of the Boeing 777X, which the airline was disproportionately relying on for long haul fleet renewal), but even beyond that, it’s hard to really see what has been going well for the airline.
Ultimately you have to judge the airline based on its current reality. A vast majority of the carrier’s long haul fleet is outdated in terms of passenger experience. We’re now seeing the new Allegris product rolled out many years behind schedule, but it’ll be a couple of years before a majority of the long haul fleet has that.
It just feels like everything at the airline has been needlessly over engineered, in a way that can’t help but make you shake your head. It seems that the only thing Lufthansa Group’s management can consistently do “well” is to create new cost saving subsidiaries, as part of a never-ending shuffle.
It’s fascinating to me how when you book a ticket on Air France, you fly Air France, or maybe Air France HOP. Meanwhile if you book a ticket on Lufthansa, you might end up on Lufthansa, Lufthansa CityLine, Lufthansa City, Air Dolomiti, airBaltic, etc. There’s simply no brand consistency anymore.
I’m certainly rooting for Lufthansa’s situation to be better a couple of years down the road, but ultimately we can only judge the airline by its current reality.
I think it’s no secret that I think Air France is Europe’s best full service airline, and has made incredible strides in recent years. That’s not just true in terms of what’s being promised for the future, but the actual reality of what has been rolled out, like the new La Premiere first class, the new business class, etc.
When I consider flying Lufthansa, and why
So, under what circumstances do I consider flying Lufthansa? Here’s where I stand:
- I continue to be delighted redeeming partner miles for Lufthansa first class at the last minute, since it’s not like there are many other reasonably priced first class award options across the Atlantic; admittedly availability is tough to come by and it’s available last minute, but if that works for my trip, it’s something I gleefully book
- I’ll happy fly Lufthansa’s Allegris business class if I can find award availability and the schedule is good; I won’t seek out this product, but it’s perfectly pleasant
- If I’m traveling with our older son, then I actually like Lufthansa’s old, outdated business class, since it’s useful to be able to sit immediately next to a three-year-old; after all, different seats are useful for different occasions
People will sometimes tell me that they’re shocked that I’d “waste” miles on Lufthansa first class, and that honestly just leaves me puzzled. Which other first class product is better, while being bookable at the last minute across the Atlantic at a reasonable cost?
Never do I claim “oh, I’m flying Lufthansa first class, the world’s best way to fly.” Instead, I think of it as “I’m flying Lufthansa first class, an okay first class product, and it’s actually bookable with miles without huge surcharges and at a reasonable cost, so that’s great for me.”
For example, during our Good Morning Milan, Goodnight Moon trip, my dad and I flew Lufthansa first class from Frankfurt to Boston on the A340. I already wrote about how there were issues with seats functioning, and some people were shocked I’d redeem for Lufthansa first class in the first place.
For one, the schedule for the Lufthansa flight was perfect — my dad and I wanted to spend two nights in Frankfurt, and we were meeting Ford and Miles in Boston, with this flight being timed perfectly for that, since they’d land an hour after that. But for example, one reader wrote the following:
Honestly, I would do anything to avoid Lufthansa. I would have structured a different itinerary. I would have taken a train to Paris, stayed a day or two, then flown on. I understand that you might not have had that luxury. But, that’s what I would have done. Reasonable people can disagree.
Everyone is entitled to their own approach, but that seems like a lot of effort to avoid what’s ultimately an okay first class product that’s an excellent value on miles, flying direct in the market I need to fly in, with the convenience of the Lufthansa First Class Terminal in Frankfurt.
My last Lufthansa first class flight was lovely***
Obviously Lufthansa’s first class hard product is anything but flashy, but I must say, my dad and I had one of our better Lufthansa first class flights.
For one, my dad was absolutely delighted to be able to smoke a cigar indoors at the Lufthansa First Class Terminal, his first indoor cigar of the trip, as the “pleasure police” (as he calls it) has otherwise restricted indoor smoking in Italy and Germany (I obviously have a different take than him, heh).
The crew on our Lufthansa flight was stellar — the two ladies working the cabin provided the very best kind of service you’ll find at Lufthansa, as they were professional and attentive, while also injecting some personality into the experience.
Usually I’m slightly annoyed by some of Lufthansa’s first class meal staples (like, Lufthansa loves elderflower more than I like avocado toast), but I’ve gotta say, the food was very good, from the caviar starter, to the monkfish main, to the kaiserschmarrn dessert.
While Lufthansa’s first class seats aren’t terribly private or spacious, the airline does have very good bedding, so I even managed to get a little nap in.
Is this the world’s best first class product? Absolutely not. Were the miles used for the tickets well spent? Absolutely, in my opinion. If nothing else, my dad enjoyed the flight immensely, and that matters more to me than anything!
Bottom line
Lufthansa tends to be one of the more controversial airlines in the miles & points space. There’s no denying that the airline is far from perfect, and in particular, has been in a really rough spot in recent years.
While I have a soft spot for Germany’s flag carrier, I would like to think that I’m pretty critical yet fair, because the current situation just isn’t great. Maybe I’m wrong, though, and the way I feel isn’t actually how others interpret things, which is the point of this post.
What’s your take on Lufthansa, whether you agree or disagree with me? Is my opinion off base? Feel free to call me out!
It is typically German . Like the Berlin airport , anemic economy , and fear of decision making . Lufthansa is the definition of Germany . I do fly it sometimes and definitely use the lounges quite a bit and all I can say that like the country it is wonderbread.
I think that you care too much about what others think about you. Over time, you will care less. Of course you're a blogger so it's part of your work, but I think it's better that you do fewer posts responding to responses.
I’ve been a Lufthansa HON Circle member for 18 years.
Over time, I’ve carefully observed a steady decline in service for HON and SEN customers.
One clear example is the noticeable drop in food quality and overall service at the First Class Terminal in Frankfurt, especially since budget cuts and the change of catering provider.
That said, I’m still very attached to the Lufthansa Group, mainly because I strongly prefer SWISS.
Have you...
I’ve been a Lufthansa HON Circle member for 18 years.
Over time, I’ve carefully observed a steady decline in service for HON and SEN customers.
One clear example is the noticeable drop in food quality and overall service at the First Class Terminal in Frankfurt, especially since budget cuts and the change of catering provider.
That said, I’m still very attached to the Lufthansa Group, mainly because I strongly prefer SWISS.
Have you ever visited the SWISS First Class Lounge in Terminal E in Zurich? It’s outstanding.
SWISS is clearly more customer-focused and consistently delivers a better overall experience than Lufthansa itself.
I stay with the Lufthansa Group because it’s the only one that offers real flexibility.
My home airport is not a major hub, is VCE (like most frequent travelers), and the LH Group provides many routing options.
Just think about routes like VCE–ORD and back:
via MUC, FRA, ZRH, VIE, or BRU (I personally avoid FCO).
The similar applies to destinations like NYC, SIN, PVG, BKK, DEL or YYZ etc.
I don’t want to deal with long layovers or spend hours stuck in airports waiting for connections.
Unfortunately, the airline industry has turned into an oligopoly.
Airlines know that for every customer leaving Lufthansa, another one arrives from Air France or British Airways, exactly what happened in the telecom industry.
Because of this, I honestly believe things will continue to get worse.
...until a company like Holafly or Uber will happen also for the airlines.
Miles have lost a huge part of their value, while taxes on award tickets have become extremely high. (Now with "Dynamic Fare" is a new way to hide their tricky game)
For example, a VCE–MEX round trip in Business Class booked with miles cost to me almost €1,000 in taxes alone!
What really disappoints me are the excuses used to justify outdated Business Class products, blaming COVID or supply-chain issues.
Other airlines faced the same challenges and still managed to move forward.
For now, I’ll continue flying SWISS as much as possible, and Lufthansa and Austrian when needed, hoping for real improvements in the future.
@Ben, I would venture to guess that, aside from *some* people who fly to Europe on business at the last minute, most travelers -- including the people who fly in J or F -- do NOT buy their tickets at the last minute. Most people *plan* their trips -- even business trips -- and that requires knowing when you take off and when you return. After all, in most cases, hotel reservations need to be...
@Ben, I would venture to guess that, aside from *some* people who fly to Europe on business at the last minute, most travelers -- including the people who fly in J or F -- do NOT buy their tickets at the last minute. Most people *plan* their trips -- even business trips -- and that requires knowing when you take off and when you return. After all, in most cases, hotel reservations need to be made, business meetings need to be coordinated (making sure the people who need to attend can actually do so), and in some cases, restaurant reservations need to be booked.
It's al well and good that LH has "cheap" tickets in F on points for those with the flexibility to fly at the last minute -- and good for you. that you are able to take advantage of that availability. But, in terms of comparing your travel with that of mere mortals, you *are* the exception -- I hope you understand that.
My wife and I try to fly to Europe or Asia from the US once a year, and nearly always on a foreign carrier. While my schedule is more flexible than hers, we both need to plan time off, where we're going, where we're staying, etc.* (Admittedly, we fly Business class, not in First, but always on points, though intra-European flights or those within Asia are often revenue tickets.). That's one reason we don't fly LH; another is that, yes, they're a "hot mess" and we avoid them.
__________
*My days of backpacking through Europe with no plans and a Canadian flag on my backpack ended long ago.
LH used to be solid airline 15+ years back, it’s horrible now. Even their F class is only on par with other airlines J class and their J (including Allergis) is really bad. What is worst is their initial non-compliance with law, e.g. for a refund of a refundable ticket you need to initiate litigation before they refund … Same for EU261 compensations, unfortunately.
Many of us recognized LH was a mess back when you were an unabashed fanboy but caviar and cheap redemptions wil do that to a person
I find the recent LH a total disaster. Cabin service still superior. Rest of it....a hot mess at a minimum. Hearing Hons in the FCT complain (last two flights) is also indicative of current state.
I read this and yawn......you have flown over 100 F class on Lufthansa......wow....aren't you special. Top 1% of flyers and don't appreciate what you have. Billions would kill to be able to complain about flying F class. I realize your job is airline reviews etc but keep things in perspective.
Emotions aside it was Lucky Ben of his iconic blog talking it all up that got me to try First on Luf years ago.It was just ok.The United Lounge in ORD poor and the food on board an embarrassment at the time.\
Reheated hamburger for dinner in First? WTF
The only memorable part of the journey was the Frankfurt lounge and the ride across the tarmac to the cabin door
Getting the...
Emotions aside it was Lucky Ben of his iconic blog talking it all up that got me to try First on Luf years ago.It was just ok.The United Lounge in ORD poor and the food on board an embarrassment at the time.\
Reheated hamburger for dinner in First? WTF
The only memorable part of the journey was the Frankfurt lounge and the ride across the tarmac to the cabin door
Getting the flight on miles was difficult and they tried to refuse me first class lounge access early on till I pushed for it
Had they not given in I would have disliked my experience 100%
Other than that they can take their expiring miles points program and keep it
I like other carriers/programs much better.They are just ok and overrated and so for that I can get better opportunities elsewhere.Not sorry I did it but once was enough
In First I like Qantas Singapore JAL Emirates,Qatar etc even American & BA/
somewhat and KLM and SAS in business class
Not a fan of Condor either
LH bucks and it has dragged down the QoS (Quality of Service) on Austrian and SwissAir.
When I flew LH from YVR to MUC, they didn't even give sleeping blanket and pillow in J class.... said that the flight is no longer considered longhaul.
Condor with their new seating is far better and it is a German airline!!!
And why bother flying FC on flights shorter than 8 hours.
YVR to MUC is not considered long haul? What is then?
Folks rip LH J for the lack of privacy but from a pure comfort perspective, in bed mode it is hard to beat in J, I find. All the newer products stuff you in a coffin. I would rather be comfortable and able to roll around about it rather than have slightly more privacy in a public space.
There is no excuse for that awful business class. Yes, OK for couples and great for parents with children but that is not the business class market. If you are traveling on business and need space, comfort and privacy, it simply won’t do. I flew LH in J on their 747 last week and it was a distasteful and unacceptable experience.
2000% Fanboy
It's one of the worst airlines out there and you keep featuring them over and over. You bitch about an airline having no door on their business class seat but praise Lufthansa for their First class. It's biased. Which is fine. Just be honest about it to yourself
+1
To all those who only have public access to details of Lufthansa Group and Spohr Mafia, behind closed doors it is much worse than most would ever want to believe!
It started by trying (for every price, legal or not or even with a little Government help) to eliminate any competition in the Home Country, then finding any possible way to get rid of unwelcome or what they thought, unnecessarily staff (too costly, but...
To all those who only have public access to details of Lufthansa Group and Spohr Mafia, behind closed doors it is much worse than most would ever want to believe!
It started by trying (for every price, legal or not or even with a little Government help) to eliminate any competition in the Home Country, then finding any possible way to get rid of unwelcome or what they thought, unnecessarily staff (too costly, but with old knowledge and knowledge that needs centuries to teach, to have the same customer experience) to finally total miss management and wrong view of doing business, by satisfying investors first before the paying crowds!
From my point of view, there is NO other aviation company as corrupt as Lufthansa-Group is!
If you’re not around the Spohr Regime, you’re just a number and with him, a great actor was lost, yes met with him several times in person and experienced his slimy and sickening attitude myself.
That’s why i understand you @Ben that you take advantage of last minute low cost First awards if available, but that you PAY any $$$ to upgrade for a more premium class that ends in an unprofessional disaster, i just don’t understand why you don’t learn your lesson? If i pay CASH for something, i want the most in return for it (NO, i’m not jewish, but value my earned money). …. value my money, is something that Lufthansa-Group does NOT!
Therefore i’m like LH biggest enemy out there, and it will never change as long as i’m alive or that corrupt aviation group is.
IF Lufthansa would not have such a strong presence in different markets and offer such wild fares to prices that nobody could beat (e.g. TLV-SFO, DEL-YYZ, ATH-DXB, CAI-SIN, PEK-MAD, BKK-BOS ….) this airline group would long be history, i’m saying airline group, because Swiss (part of this corrupt Lufthansa-Group) is the same as this German carrier is! (in my eyes).
Smoothly but politely, Mafia Boss Spohr implemented all his offspring Buddies into all these Companies that did NOT act like he was hoping for, after taking over stakes of these airlines or trying to put them against the wall.
Clever, but in my eyes dangerous to anybody who still spends and sour earned $ with this airline Group!
CONDOR (German competitor … only one left after Spohr Mafia ruined the rest of competitive German Aviation Companies, but stole the BEST ideas, as he was not able to creat things himself with his team to be competitive) is therefore worth to look for as a GOOD German alternative to anything Lufthansa-Group offers, especially on US-Europe routes! And their prices!
Avoid ANY Lufthansa-Group airline if you can and you might get a better alternative with less disappointments while paying less!
As said, LH airlines ONLY worth it to do business with, if it’s a REAL “Bargain” for yourself, otherwise not worth the headache!
What's with the gratuitis Jewish comment? Spicing up your day?
@STEFFL ---> "(NO, i’m not jewish, but value my earned money)."
WTF?!?!? As if you're an exception? Are you the only non-Jew on the planet who values their [hard] earned money???
NOSTALGIA is a double edged sword.
I grew up in India, took my first flight at the age of 4 in 1958 in Indian Airlines and remember it clearly to this day!!! (Indian Airlines eventually became Air India).
Would I, today, lean towards a flight on AI given that Nostalgia? Hell no.
Things change. WE evolve. Airlines evolve and devolve. We move on. LH today is not worthy of the attention it...
NOSTALGIA is a double edged sword.
I grew up in India, took my first flight at the age of 4 in 1958 in Indian Airlines and remember it clearly to this day!!! (Indian Airlines eventually became Air India).
Would I, today, lean towards a flight on AI given that Nostalgia? Hell no.
Things change. WE evolve. Airlines evolve and devolve. We move on. LH today is not worthy of the attention it could deserve on account of Nostalgia. Spent 7 hrs as a HON but have no desire, any more, to fly LH.
I do not think you read the piece.
Fully agree with each and every word you say!
my take as a European is that whilst LH was always stubbornly German and thus somehow coherent, the very sad development for me is how LX has followed LH's path hard and thus changed a lot, to the point of being very negative.
Thanks for an honest assessment Ben, I would never have said in recent years you were too kind with LH and their situation.
Around 12-15 years ago I would have said LH was the most premium European carrier, period. In recent years, I would say AF has done an outstanding job of re-creating their premium experience (in business I mean mainly, La Premiere was always good), although a recent flight in their older A350...
Thanks for an honest assessment Ben, I would never have said in recent years you were too kind with LH and their situation.
Around 12-15 years ago I would have said LH was the most premium European carrier, period. In recent years, I would say AF has done an outstanding job of re-creating their premium experience (in business I mean mainly, La Premiere was always good), although a recent flight in their older A350 configuration reminded me they're not perfect at all.
BA has done the next best job, and now seems to be investing even more - their new lounges (great example MIA) are next level, and the majority of their fleet with club suites provide a very decent and premium onboard J experience at least.
We all have nostalgia, but LH has fallen very far behind due to their management (echoing almost BA 10-12 years ago). The fact that LH itself is the least profitable carrier in its own group shows how far they've fallen. It would be lovely to see them truly succeed again, but as with AF and BA, that's perhaps a decade-long process from when a change of management and priorities happens.
The fear is, with the additional control they've taken, is that they drag swiss and austrian down with them.
From a customer perspective at least.
@timtamtrack
Did you read the part where Ben said that as a teenager he did mileage runs to get points for the family to travel Lufthansa? As a kid he certainly didn't imagine that his career would be as a full time blogger for income so why would he have tracked flights on Lufthansa?
Between 1996 and 2013 who ever imagined that HILTON would create a Lifetime Diamond Status or that they would not...
@timtamtrack
Did you read the part where Ben said that as a teenager he did mileage runs to get points for the family to travel Lufthansa? As a kid he certainly didn't imagine that his career would be as a full time blogger for income so why would he have tracked flights on Lufthansa?
Between 1996 and 2013 who ever imagined that HILTON would create a Lifetime Diamond Status or that they would not track nights properly - so I am left unable to prove my 2200 nights - 240 which they didn't count properly.
I did read that part. It still surprises me that an avgeek as big as Ben didn’t keep close track of his own flights. I know tracking sites were perhaps not around, but I kept excel spreadsheets - one of rail one for air.
I wouldn't call you a LH fanboy at all. So many other airlines are gushed over in this space.
No
I am the biggest Lufthansa fanboy and apologist
Hey wait hang on a minute… honest question!
“I’ve easily done well over 100 segments in Lufthansa first class, and I suspect the actual number is significantly higher than that.”
There’s a “miles flown” tracker at the bottom of every page of your blog. You’re saying you don’t actually know how many times you’ve flown LH? Or specifically that you haven’t tracked which flights were in F? Surely you track your flights somehow?!
As a...
Hey wait hang on a minute… honest question!
“I’ve easily done well over 100 segments in Lufthansa first class, and I suspect the actual number is significantly higher than that.”
There’s a “miles flown” tracker at the bottom of every page of your blog. You’re saying you don’t actually know how many times you’ve flown LH? Or specifically that you haven’t tracked which flights were in F? Surely you track your flights somehow?!
As a follow-on, I’d love to see your flightradar24 page or whatever you use to track miles, assuming such a thing exists!
I agree it would be cool if Ben could explain in a post how this works sometimes.
I haven't flown LH in years but from what I remember it was fine, no better or worse than others. If I was traveling transatlantic with family I too would consider their old business class setup, so it has its purpose.
Question though: your 2026 plan doesn't mention any star alliance airlines. Do you have lifetime status and a stockpile of miles or do you buy the miles as needed (aeroplan, lifemiles, etc)? Or cash? How are you going to fly LH in 2026?
I still remember the days when Tiffany had written an article on LH, way back in 2014, called I’m Just Here for the Caviar — fun times!
However, if I were to name an airline that you were an unabashed fan of a few years ago (2022/23), I would say, without any hesitation whatsoever, Qatar Airways. I think QR can do no wrong in your eyes as far as onboard product is concerned — keeping...
I still remember the days when Tiffany had written an article on LH, way back in 2014, called I’m Just Here for the Caviar — fun times!
However, if I were to name an airline that you were an unabashed fan of a few years ago (2022/23), I would say, without any hesitation whatsoever, Qatar Airways. I think QR can do no wrong in your eyes as far as onboard product is concerned — keeping all humanitarian and ethical rights aside — as I’ve never seen you have a bad experience on QR the way countless others have, by way of plane swaps and sloppy service.
Agreed :) I just flew QR business MLE-DOH-CDG (landed this morning) and would rate the experience as ”fine”. Q Suites are nice but the food was lackluster and the service nothing to write home about. The lounge in DOH was VERY crowded and not at all pleasant.
Too lazy to call you out again for imagining stuff.
So I'll keep this short.
STOP GASLIGHTING Ben.
I think very well written. You’ve always liked Lufthansa and complimented them when due. That’s personal preference an it’s your blog with your opinions.
I like LH first a lot and I think it’s hard to say the onboard product is terrible but la premiere is the greatest product ever when it seems that a curtain around the lh seat would make them pretty close to equal.
Even after reading this I am convinced more that you are lh fanboy. You just want them to succeed so I'd say you are biased. Most people who don't have strong connections do not see it that way. And one more important point you missed: not everyone is mile rich like you, who can get tons of miles from referrals. So for someone who has a limited amount of miles, we want to prioritize how...
Even after reading this I am convinced more that you are lh fanboy. You just want them to succeed so I'd say you are biased. Most people who don't have strong connections do not see it that way. And one more important point you missed: not everyone is mile rich like you, who can get tons of miles from referrals. So for someone who has a limited amount of miles, we want to prioritize how we use, particularly aspirational products once, rather than wasted our miles on ok firs class. Does it make sense?
Out of curiosity
Ben brings this up in his article
Would you rather pay double miles for Le Premiere vs LH?
LH isn’t AA first class international, it’s not like he’s advocating for a swivel chair to move anyone, food, service, and wine be damned?
LH does differentiate their F but perhaps not to the degree of AF F, but, to Ben’s point, at what point are people allowed a value judgement on F service and product at a lower mileage price?
I've only flown F once so far, and it was on LH and using lifemiles. Evidently, I'm not miles rich and it took me quite the effort to come up with the miles required. All I can say is that it was a memorable experience, considering the cost. I was also able to add a domestic leg (FRA-MUC) and get to know the FCT and the FCL (satellite) at MUC.
When you take a...
I've only flown F once so far, and it was on LH and using lifemiles. Evidently, I'm not miles rich and it took me quite the effort to come up with the miles required. All I can say is that it was a memorable experience, considering the cost. I was also able to add a domestic leg (FRA-MUC) and get to know the FCT and the FCL (satellite) at MUC.
When you take a look at all pieces put together, you'll find that this is (still) indeed a great use of miles (which is Ben's point every single time) and is not going to be around for long.
Is LH doing great nowadays? No, and Ben has said so more than enough times. There's no bias, as Ben does not deflect or ignore criticisms of LH, nor has he ever said "my LH F seat was broken but the caviar made my day."
So, if you've ever considered flying LH F with miles but are apprehensive, I invite you to do it. You'll encounter more good things than bad ones, as long as you're redeeming miles.
@All Due Respect, where you at bud?! Bring out the Luftkafka!
@AlanZ, hope the roast goose was tasty!
@1990
The roast goose was very tasty. Even if Spohr killed the golden goose.
I would like to add to this discussion. Both my wife and I can state with absolute assurance that at least one part of the LH experience remains top notch in FC. That would be the service and attention provided by the FA's. Always top shelf. How people interact with you is more important then claiming the food isn't world class....
@1990
The roast goose was very tasty. Even if Spohr killed the golden goose.
I would like to add to this discussion. Both my wife and I can state with absolute assurance that at least one part of the LH experience remains top notch in FC. That would be the service and attention provided by the FA's. Always top shelf. How people interact with you is more important then claiming the food isn't world class. That's why there are Michelin starred restaurants.
I do hope that come LH's 100th anny this year Spohr takes opportunity to retire. I also know that his FA's won't miss him.
I think this is a pretty fair take. Is LH F the best F product out there? Not at all, but it’s definitely better than J on any of its competitors and priced right for what it is (in miles at least, and particularly for those traveling between US-Europe). It’s better than BA F and doesn’t have surcharges, and while AF F is a lot nicer, it’s also limited access and a lot more expensive...
I think this is a pretty fair take. Is LH F the best F product out there? Not at all, but it’s definitely better than J on any of its competitors and priced right for what it is (in miles at least, and particularly for those traveling between US-Europe). It’s better than BA F and doesn’t have surcharges, and while AF F is a lot nicer, it’s also limited access and a lot more expensive in points costs than LH F. LX F is slightly nicer, but far less accessible. Also, Ben actually departs from Frankfurt sometimes instead of transiting through like most people, so he actually gets to take advantage of the FCT as it’s meant to be used, which makes LH F an even more appealing option for him.
No one would ever say LH F is one of the best first class options in the world, but at least while they haven’t fully transitioned over to Allegris, it’s a pretty nice way to cross the Atlantic for the price, and one I wouldn’t go out of my way to avoid, especially given the relatively short lengths of their transatlantic flights. Old LH F between Europe and the US is still one of the few remaining sweet spots in the points game as far as I’m concerned.
Most definitely any love will end when partner miles redemption is cut off just like Swiss.
Which is kind of Ben’s point. It’s not the best F product out there and certainly can’t compete with AF if paying cash (where they charge similar prices), but as long as it remains a decent value for points that’s reasonably accessible it’s a good option. Once more cabins have been converted to Allegris and availability plummets, I doubt we will see Ben traveling on LH F as often.
The reference to relatively simple award seat booking is quite an important qualifier. Yes, it is certainly not unpleasant to fly Lufthansa First, but there are better products out there.
Personally I am done with LH and are actively avoiding them despite being based in Germany: the many subsidaries only created to stiff the employees, Allegris product development so obviously aimed at squeezing out the last Euro from business class passengers for halfway decent...
The reference to relatively simple award seat booking is quite an important qualifier. Yes, it is certainly not unpleasant to fly Lufthansa First, but there are better products out there.
Personally I am done with LH and are actively avoiding them despite being based in Germany: the many subsidaries only created to stiff the employees, Allegris product development so obviously aimed at squeezing out the last Euro from business class passengers for halfway decent seats, while at the same time implemented so amateurishly that I am lost for words. Add in awards pricing and fuel surcharges and re-seating me on the worst possible seats on my last trip, because they couldn’t let it pass that a lowly award traveler was able to select a decent seat in fhe booking process tells me that this company has lost its way under Spohr.
i could not agree more to how you see the way Lufthansa is handling things, NOT just under the Spohr Mafia … but since the 2020’s in general, the truth is, the real Public did not see what was going on behind closed curtains and how the entire Spohr Empire family became one of the most corrupt thing in any German Company, NOT family owned!
The reality is that Lufthansa's seats place it at the very end of the global scale. So many 2-2-2 seats, I can't think of another airline that uses such terrible seats at-scale.
They will not be a good airline in my books until they fix that. Given how slow the Allegris rollout has been it'll still be years. By then those seats will be very mid.
While some say the Lufthansa is Spohr-nicated, it truly makes up for it with its excellent management, customer service, public relations, and loyalty program value.
This is sarcasm, right?
Ben just preface potentially dividing subjects with “Bloggers prerogative“ because in the end your an independent journalist and you ultimately have the last say.
I don't think Ben would ever describe himself as a "journalist", and that's one of the reasons I've been following this blog for years.
I absolutely agree that the new cutting edge seats dont work for all folks. We have travelled alot with our 2.5 year old and definitely find the LOT 787 business class seats the most conducive in terms of space and logistics of traveling with a toddler. The newer product creates too much of barrier with your young one.
Going to fly the Turkish 777 and Qatar Qsuite soon. Am hoping the three seats abreast and...
I absolutely agree that the new cutting edge seats dont work for all folks. We have travelled alot with our 2.5 year old and definitely find the LOT 787 business class seats the most conducive in terms of space and logistics of traveling with a toddler. The newer product creates too much of barrier with your young one.
Going to fly the Turkish 777 and Qatar Qsuite soon. Am hoping the three seats abreast and the double bed feature respectively will work out well too.
That being said, folks in business class with toddlers is a minority and not the exact target segment for airlines when deciding their investments.
I think you (maybe) meant to write this sentence the other way around, @Ben.
@ hbilbao -- Indeed, thanks. Fixed!
I'm reminded of a quote from Top Gear: "This is good. But I like this."
You are able to look at things and evaluate them from an objective level, and I really appreciate that. The degree that your reviews are tinted by visions of nostalgia or culture, I can't say with 100% certainty but I myself don't detect it. I still remember one review you did of Lufthansa's old angle-flat business class where you criticized...
I'm reminded of a quote from Top Gear: "This is good. But I like this."
You are able to look at things and evaluate them from an objective level, and I really appreciate that. The degree that your reviews are tinted by visions of nostalgia or culture, I can't say with 100% certainty but I myself don't detect it. I still remember one review you did of Lufthansa's old angle-flat business class where you criticized their bad food, assembly line like service, and dated seat. Also, when you do your first class rankings, Lufthansa ranks high but not #1. So the accusations that you are a Lufthansa "fanboy" or "yes-man?" Without merit.
My experiences with Lufthansa? It's still ranked as the #1 first class experience I've had (oh, and I was on the A340). Also the best first class lounge experience I've had (FRA First Class Terminal). I haven't flown their business class but I'd be willing to, Allegris or non-Allegris. Economy short haul was fine. Business class lounges fine.
FWIW
I don’t notice any bias other than the understandable nostalgia you mention
I have a similar if somewhat irrational love for BA and transiting LHR which certainly isn’t a hot take to many
LH will always win the best airline ad to me though…
As it starts with the Brits saying:
“We’re flying with the Germans!?” And the World Cup games on during flight
Such a great ad
I think that you tend to get a bit hung up on the F label/classification. I've had far better experiences in business class with other airlines.
@ Throwawayname -- I'm curious on which airline you've had a better end-to-end experience in business class (meaning including ground experience)?
As a quick example, last year I flew LH F from GRU to the UK. They sent me to the same lounge that I'd visited with TAP, there was no fast track, no offer of a golf cart or escorting for the long walk from the lounge to the gate or any other difference. Similarly, my bags didn't come any quicker upon arrival and I had to retrieve them from the belt in the same...
As a quick example, last year I flew LH F from GRU to the UK. They sent me to the same lounge that I'd visited with TAP, there was no fast track, no offer of a golf cart or escorting for the long walk from the lounge to the gate or any other difference. Similarly, my bags didn't come any quicker upon arrival and I had to retrieve them from the belt in the same way I do when I'm in Y.
I had a long connection and went to the trouble of leaving the terminal at FRA and went to the FCT where I was confronted with one of the worst coffees in my entire life, some mislabelled nut paste, and made in China toiletries in the shower. I did get driven to the plane in some SUV, and that was definitely the highlight of the experience as it was a CRJ and it felt like it was parked somewhere in Offenbach...but the flipside was that I was on the plane half an hour before boarding had completed, [plus I don't think I was even offered a pre departure drink]- nobody had asked me whether I wanted to board first and have to wait for everyone else to get on board (which I definitely didn't).
On the plane itself, they messed up the dine on demand thing and the dish I had reserved wasn't available when I asked them to make it for me.
Despite having to endure the stupid 4S train, my last experience on Iberia business class was far better than that, end to end. And IB aren't even one of my favourite airlines.
Forgot to add that the FCT bar had an impressive array of drinks on offer but I asked the barman for a glass of whisky with a port finish and he didn't seem to know what I was talking about and ended up pouring me something which was decent, and undoubtedly quite expensive, but wasn't anything like the style of whisky I'd been after.
The entire FCT experience had a form-over-function feel to it- or, as we'd say in England, it was all fur coat and no knickers.
You still haven't answered Ben's question or offered a business class experience that was a "far better experience."
@Brodie, I wrote that my recent IB C experience was far better than that LH F one, not sure what part of my comment you didn't understand.
I think @Broadie is asking why you describe how you hate LH F in 50+ sentences and nothing on how IB C is good besides saying it's better.
Well, the good thing about the IB experience was precisely the lack of issues.
The Velázquez lounge offers illy espresso, apron views, and spirits whose labels I can read at leisure as they're self-service...and, speaking of labels, the food is labelled appropriately- unlike my FCT experience. I was also able to monitor the boarding process and stay in the lounge until 10 minutes before the end of it instead of being taken to the...
Well, the good thing about the IB experience was precisely the lack of issues.
The Velázquez lounge offers illy espresso, apron views, and spirits whose labels I can read at leisure as they're self-service...and, speaking of labels, the food is labelled appropriately- unlike my FCT experience. I was also able to monitor the boarding process and stay in the lounge until 10 minutes before the end of it instead of being taken to the plane half an hour earlier.
My dine on demand request was handled really well (and they certainly managed to get me what I had ordered). The crew were excellent throughout (that's not to say the LH crew had been problematic).
This isn't to say that IB offered me a life-changing experience, but I did arrive at my destination relaxed and content, and I don't think I could say the same thing about LH F. By the same token, I am not saying I'll be boycotting LH for eternity- their schedule always works best for my short haul routes and their last minute F awards may come in handy again in the future if the alternative is a long flight in Y.