A little over two weeks ago, we saw an Air India Boeing 787 crash after takeoff from Ahmedabad, killing hundreds. This is the most fatal aviation accident in roughly a decade, and it’s also one of the most mysterious. What would cause a Boeing 787 to essentially fall out of the sky just seconds after takeoff?
An interesting detail has just emerged about the investigation, as India is seemingly denying some outside help in this investigation. Is that fair enough, or reason for concern?
In this post:
India denies assistance with accident investigation
Reuters is reporting that India would not allow a United Nations (UN) investigator to join a probe of the crashed Air India jet. Specifically, earlier this year, the UN aviation agency offered India one of its investigators to provide assistance following the crash.
In the past, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) has deployed investigators to help with some probes, but that has historically been in situations where local agencies have asked for this assistance. In this case, the ICAO asked India’s Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) to be given observer status in the investigation, but the offer was refused.
News of India denying this help comes as the country has received some criticism for the ways in which it’s handling the investigation, including delays in analysis of black box data. Investigators finally announced on Thursday that they’ve downloaded flight recorder data, around two weeks after the initial crash. That came with quite a delay, as those items were recovered on June 13 and June 16. Authorities in India have only held a single press conference on the accident, where no questions were taken.
Is this help denial concerning, or fair enough?
I can see both sides to India’s AAIB denying ICAO investigators access to the investigation.
On the one hand, perhaps Indian authorities felt a bit undermined. Why is the ICAO offering investigators help, when it doesn’t usually proactively offer that? I suppose that could be interpreted as a lack of confidence. Then again, this is the most significant accident we’ve seen in a very long time, and aviation safety is a global concern.
On the other hand, you’d think that having as much transparency as possible would be for the best, and that the philosophy would be “the more, the merrier,” especially when it comes to experienced investigators with different skill sets overseeing an investigation.
It goes without saying that those first weeks (and particularly days) after an accident are the most crucial in terms of collecting all the facts. One also certainly can’t help but wonder to what extent some accident causes haven’t been determined due to governments performing poor investigations, and/or not being very transparent.
For example, the most mysterious aviation mystery in modern times is that of MH370, whereby a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 simply went missing after takeoff, and was never seen again. I can’t help but think that our lack of a resolution there at least partly comes down to either a cover-up of some sort, or a poor investigation early on. The same is true for some of the EgyptAir accidents we’ve seen, where Egyptian authorities seem determined to claim that outside factors were at fault.
We’ll see how this all plays out, but the pace at which authorities in India are even decoding data is a bit concerning, and denying access to the ICAO isn’t a great look either.
Bottom line
India has reportedly denied an accident investigator belong to the UN’s ICAO access to the Air India crash probe. This is unusual on a couple of levels. It’s unusual because the ICAO typically only offers investigators help when asked. And it’s also unusual because most investigators would appreciate having more experts with diverse viewpoints tracking an investigation.
I guess we’ll see how this all plays out, but the Indian government hasn’t exactly been doing a stellar job communicating transparently so far, and given how soon the flight data was recovered, it’s taking a long time to actually analyze it.
What do you make of this Air India crash investigation situation?
The chances of full disclosure seem to be limited at this time.
Air India - Khalistan terrorism? Not to speculate but there is a history of this. It has not been indicated as a possibility though there were aircraft that left YVR that never made it. It would be incredibly east to plant a very small explosive in the fuel pump distribution that would instantly shut off fuel without obvious external damage?
No chance India would admit to internal terrorist activities.
Putting explosive in a fuel tank no matter the size will result in a large boom.
Terrorist also don't really care about executing their act "without external damage". Unless sabotage is employed, explosive was never used in here.
If and when the report comes out, American and British investigators can release a parallel report different from what India released if they believe what India released is not accurate.
A handful of accidents have more...
Putting explosive in a fuel tank no matter the size will result in a large boom.
Terrorist also don't really care about executing their act "without external damage". Unless sabotage is employed, explosive was never used in here.
If and when the report comes out, American and British investigators can release a parallel report different from what India released if they believe what India released is not accurate.
A handful of accidents have more than one accident reports from different countries.
Cause speculation: there was a rare combination of factors, but the ultimate cause is a software glitch causing engine shutdown.
if that were the case, India would be quick to highlight what happened - and they may in time.
And the real people that matter are Boeing and GE and potentially the NTSB. If what you suggested is the cause, then there will need to be some sort of corrective action taken across the global 787 or GEnx fleet.
That seems extremely unlikely. A more likely scenario would be someone accidentally (or intentionally) hitting the fuel cutoff switches or fire handles, as the guy tried (but thankfully failed) to do on the Alaska flight a few years ago. But that's also just one possibility among many with no evidence at this point.
It's likely that the investigators already have a pretty good idea of what happened since they have the FDR and CVR data...
That seems extremely unlikely. A more likely scenario would be someone accidentally (or intentionally) hitting the fuel cutoff switches or fire handles, as the guy tried (but thankfully failed) to do on the Alaska flight a few years ago. But that's also just one possibility among many with no evidence at this point.
It's likely that the investigators already have a pretty good idea of what happened since they have the FDR and CVR data now. Hopefully the relevant facts will be made public soon without any political influence.
Indian government and officials will always deny ,that they do not have the expertise if things go wrong.They have still not disclosed how many Aircraft were shot down in recent conflict.Nothing has changed since independence.
Still whole story of debacle during Chinese invasion not public.
Agreed with Ben, seems like a condescending move by the ICAO even if made with the best intentions, and it's not like India is investigating this all by their lonesome to begin with, otherwise Boeing and GE would also have to be in on the coverup. The more conspirators involved, the exponentially more likely it won't remain a secret.
Yes it's as if the US asks the help of united nations when one of it's planes crash. There are enough competent authorities including those from Boeing and NTSB helping.
Don’t remember ICAO self inviting during 737 fiasco. I guess only certain countries can engage in involved in coverups.
Absolutely.. this seems offensive to suggest that United Nations needs to get involved. India has enough people assisting including Boeing and other experts. No need of the UN
Just what this investigation needs…..the input from an inept and ineffective international organization
Will see but i have never seem a dual engine flameout at exactly the same time thats very weird. Was there a engine FADEC issue that the electric fuel shut off valves closed (FSOV) and provoke fuel starvation.
Time will tell.
Dual engine failures are rare, but not unheard of... and the most recent one happened less than 6 months earlier on Jeju 2216.
The most common cause of this has been one engine failing and the crew inadvertently shutting down the wrong one. There have been several instances of that. A less common cause has been simultaneous bird strikes in both engines (i.e. plane hit a flock of birds) as happened with US Air 1549....
Dual engine failures are rare, but not unheard of... and the most recent one happened less than 6 months earlier on Jeju 2216.
The most common cause of this has been one engine failing and the crew inadvertently shutting down the wrong one. There have been several instances of that. A less common cause has been simultaneous bird strikes in both engines (i.e. plane hit a flock of birds) as happened with US Air 1549. Of course, another possible cause for both engines shutting down is... both engines being commanded to shut down. Which came very close to happening less than 2 years ago when the off-duty Alaska Airlines pilot tried to pull the fire handles.
I've never heard of a software failure causing a dual engine shutdown in any airliner. That's not to say it's impossible, but it seems quite unlikely and I've never heard of it happening before.
I suspect that Boeing and GE already have enough data to be able to come to a reasonable conclusion about a potential cause and that there is no risk to other airlines or the 787 or the GEnx engine.
Fuel contamination seems to be one explanation that could have caused the disaster and some reports say India hasn't ruled that out.
Given the aggressive growth that multiple Indian airlines have, this will certainly...
I suspect that Boeing and GE already have enough data to be able to come to a reasonable conclusion about a potential cause and that there is no risk to other airlines or the 787 or the GEnx engine.
Fuel contamination seems to be one explanation that could have caused the disaster and some reports say India hasn't ruled that out.
Given the aggressive growth that multiple Indian airlines have, this will certainly create doubt in the eyes of some to the benefit of foreign airlines.
I do not think Boeing coming to any conclusion regardless of the risk level of existing Boeing flights means much because they’re not incentivized for planes to stop flying, short of them likely to disappear out of thin air.
I agree that not collaborating is not a good look.
To your point on fuel contamination though, why would it specifically lead to this crash? And as for not ruling that out, I don’t think they’ve accepted or rejected any theory.
Can you provide us links to where it was reported that fuel contamination was considered as a cause by India.
there has been every possible explanation for the accident SUGGESTED and also that India did test the fuel right after the accident and found nothing in the samples they took.
Boeing and GE have every reason to know the answer in order to prevent a repeat if there is something repeatable. Since they are not leading the investigation, they are not likely to say anything unless they have overwhelming evidence now that there is a...
there has been every possible explanation for the accident SUGGESTED and also that India did test the fuel right after the accident and found nothing in the samples they took.
Boeing and GE have every reason to know the answer in order to prevent a repeat if there is something repeatable. Since they are not leading the investigation, they are not likely to say anything unless they have overwhelming evidence now that there is a fleet-wide issue - which would probably be difficult to determine at this point.
You are contradicting yourself.
Original post you said : “ Fuel contamination seems to be one explanation that could have caused the disaster and some reports say India hasn't ruled that out.”
Now you are saying : “ that India did test the fuel right after the accident and found nothing in the samples they took.”
@Bbt
Fuel contamination isn't necessary always coming from fuel tanks/depos at airports.
Jet fuel are periodically mixed with different addictives to improve functionality. Antioxidant, Antifreeze. Obviously if you add more amount of this addictive than required, it becomes a contaminant.
Cite Titan Airways A321 fuel contamination at Gatwick, (between 2020-2022) don't remember the year correctly
In the line of thinking it was fuel contamination, has any speculation been seen about this being sabotage? Like the equivalent of pouring sugar in a car's gas tank?
So far they have not handle this very well first few days you could even see trucks passing over the 787 wing when that its a piece of evidence.
There is enough transparency with all the parties that are already involved.
Given that we saw UN agencies actively aiding Hamas in Gaza, it's no surprise that some countries prefer to keep distance - to be clear, I don't think ICAO is problematic in any way, but I understand the scepticism.
If a discovery of fault is found, a panel of neutral observers can help verify the conclusion. We want the blame on the correct issue for future safety. This is not the time for inflated egos to overshadow a tragedy.
Americans talking about “inflated ego”. Ironic.
To be fair, isn’t Boeing, the engine manufacturer, and the UK authorities already part of this investigation? Seems difficult to cover anything up with them all involved.
That's correct, and so are the NTSB due to the country of manufacture being the USA. So, it's not like India is clearly covering things up. On the other hand, their AAIB is leading the investigation and that may be the issue here as far as the UN is concerned.
If and when the report comes out, American and British investigators can release a parallel report different from what India released if they believe what India released is not accurate.
A handful of accidents have more than one accident reports from different countries.
It’s like the Indian government is writing the word “COVERUP” with a Sharpie on their foreheads.
By allowing Boeing, UK (AAIB) and NTSB to be part of this investigation ? What an ignorant and racist remark to make !