They say honesty is the best policy. Well, here’s an example of where that’s not the case, and where just saying “yes” is the best policy.
In this post:
Frontier passenger removed over exit row kerfuffle
Video footage is going viral of a Frontier Airlines passenger being removed from a recent flight from Charlotte (CLT). This woman was lucky enough to get a seat in the exit row, which is typically considered the most desirable seating in economy, thanks to the extra legroom offered.
The catch, of course, is that if you sit in the exit row, you have to agree that you’ll assist the crew in the event of an emergency. During the exit row briefing, a nearby passenger claimed that this woman responded to the request to help in an emergency by saying:
“Oh, I’m not going to save anybody. If something happens, I’m going to save myself.”
LOL. I mean, I give her credit for being honest, because I imagine that’s what most people in the exit row would actually do. You’re also not supposed to take any personal belongings with you when you evacuate a plane, yet every time we see footage of an evacuation, a large percentage of passengers are taking all their belongings down the slide.
Furthermore, ultimately if the woman in the exit row saves herself, that’s also saving others. The job of the person in the exit row is to open the emergency exit and then get off the plane. It’s not like the person in the exit row is supposed to be the last person off the jet.
But of course the crew needs to hear you say “yes,” even if there’s nothing to it. In this case, when the crew explained that to this woman, she apparently nodded her head, rather than saying “yes.”
The crew wasn’t having any of it, so that’s when the situation escalated:
- When asked if there’s a problem, the woman states “we ain’t got no problem with that, we understand we gotta help people get off the plane”
- The woman then tells the flight attendant that she’s “wasting her breath” by continuing to talk to her
- The woman is then asked to leave the plane, but refuses, and then picks up the phone to call her attorney, and enjoys a snack
- The pilot then shows up, and she still refuses to leave the plane, asking what crime she committed
- After talk with several more employees (from flight attendants, to gate agents, to the pilot), police eventually show up
- Since she refuses to leave the aircraft, all passengers have to deplane, and then the woman is taken off the plane in cuffs by police, and is placed in a car on the apron
You can see the interaction below, though note that this doesn’t include the initial discussion where she reportedly said that she was going to save herself first.
I almost find this woman’s honesty endearing
Airline crews don’t have it easy. In the case of an exit row briefing, they also have very clear policies they need to follow. Passengers need to provide verbal confirmation that they’re willing to assist the crew in the case of an emergency, and if they don’t, the crew can’t let them sit there. It’s as easy as that.
The unfortunate part is that this woman was no less capable of sitting in the exit row than anyone else. Most people don’t choose to sit in the exit row because they’re excited to help others evacuate, but rather because they want more legroom. As long as you open the exit door correctly, you can evacuate from the plane, and you can be the first to save yourself (if that’s how you want to think of it).
This woman clearly had no bad intentions, but of course that doesn’t change the fact that people need to cooperate with crews:
- Airlines can kick you off a plane regardless of whether or not you committed a crime, so this is different than law enforcement removing you from a public place
- Once a crew asks you to get off the plane, just follow their instructions, because refusing will absolutely not get you anywhere
Now, I can’t help but wonder if this situation could have been deescalated a bit better by the crew, since there’s no footage of the first part of the incident. For example, let’s say the conversation started something like this (and we have reason to believe it did):
“Are you willing and able to assist the crew in the case of an emergency?”
“Oh, I’m not going to save anybody. If something happens, I’m going to save myself.”
There are two directions the crew could go in this case:
Option 1: “Do I need to remove you from this aircraft?”
Option 2: “Per regulations, I need a verbal ‘yes’ that each person in the exit row is willing to assist. Keep in mind that if you’re the one to open the exit in an emergency, you can also be the first off the plane. So can you give me a verbal ‘yes?'”
It’s possible that better deescalation techniques could have been used, but once this person became fully uncooperative with the crew, they had no option but to remove her.
Bottom line
While people get removed from flights all the time, usually it’s because they’re acting completely out of line. In this case, an incident arose because a woman answered honestly regarding helping in the exit row. Crews need verbal confirmation that people are willing to help in the exit row, and this woman responded by saying that she was going to save herself.
I imagine that’s what most people would do, and for that matter, helping the crew and helping yourself are often one in the same. But still, that’s not how that works…
What do you make of this Frontier Airlines incident?
I guess they have to have the word "yes"?? She did say something to the effect, "what's the problem, we know we have to help people get off the plane." Isn't that close enough to a yes?
I'm really surprised. Nobody mentioned her racial slurs. Calling white people. Betty White multiple times.
I noticed that too. The conversation included belligerent references to one of the flight attendant as "Betty White". This passenger clearly would not assist the crew in an emergency.
She's just thick.
She wasn't playing the Black Card, but I scanned the comments and it just seems like the same old same old.
She's Black, she Belligerent, so kick her off the plane.
She acknowledged, thats all she needed to do. I do not like anyone playing any type of card, but I believe Frontier needs some sensitivity training for various races, who certainly fly their airline.
And please do not pile on with...
She wasn't playing the Black Card, but I scanned the comments and it just seems like the same old same old.
She's Black, she Belligerent, so kick her off the plane.
She acknowledged, thats all she needed to do. I do not like anyone playing any type of card, but I believe Frontier needs some sensitivity training for various races, who certainly fly their airline.
And please do not pile on with hubris. It does no service to this site or to Ben, he is just reporting the incident.
Why are you defending this passenger? All she had to do was say YES. Very simple. But, no.
You do not have to be honest, but you do have to agree to assist in the event of evacuation through the exit adjacent to your exit-row seat. Pretty simple, really. As John Wayne said: "Life is hard - it's even harder if you are stupid".
Ok, but should she even be allowed to fly? If she was honest in saying 'in an emergency I'm gonna be blocking the aisle and taking all my stuff, because I don't care about everyone else'. In an emergency there is a sense of urgency, and everyone is supposed to do their part in making the whole process as smooth as possible so people can survive. If this person is openly selfish and warning people...
Ok, but should she even be allowed to fly? If she was honest in saying 'in an emergency I'm gonna be blocking the aisle and taking all my stuff, because I don't care about everyone else'. In an emergency there is a sense of urgency, and everyone is supposed to do their part in making the whole process as smooth as possible so people can survive. If this person is openly selfish and warning people they won't be co operating in any processes, should they even be allowed to fly?
I cannot believe that there are people on this post (yes, including you, Ben) defending this woman or faulting the Flight Crew. She is not mature enough to be around anywhere!
Firstly, horrible take here Lucky. A rare L on your part.
Second of all, when she effectively said "no" they should have just reseated her somewhere else. If she didn't like that well too bad. Actions have consequences.
As a society we really need to stop glorifying stupidity.
I agree. I thought that was standard procedure for airlines. Not even as punishment - just not meeting the criteria for exit row.
Agree, passenger is a fault. If she wants to have her honest, funny reply, I think it depends on the mood and feeling you get from the flight attendant as to how well it would be received. In addition, she could have said "yes" before that comment and everyone would have continued. Equally evacuating the whole flight is unnecessary too.
If you choose to disagree with a flight crew, you will lose 100% of the time, guaranteed.
"I almost find this woman’s honesty endearing"
Really Ben?
She was a borderline psychopath, with no filter, not appreciating the environment she was in, where her ' rights' are suspended, and the airline makes the rules.
She ultimately inconvenienced a planeload of passengers with her antics and deserves to be condemned,
Nothing 'endearing' about that IMO!
Do NOT defend this woman. What she did was entitled and childish.
This is a crew problem totally.
What is wrong with saying "if you cannot agree or are not able to help then we will switch you to a seat with someone who will agree and wants the extra room"?
The preflight announcements all make that suggestion so what was the problem?
Can you imagine any problem finding a volunteer?
That was said, just not on video because it didn’t escalate until after that.
Reminds me of that "Keeping it Real" sketch on the Chappelle Show.
Good Luck getting Ben Crump! No $$$$$$$$$$$$ for him on this!
The Joke is on Her! Laughing with a mouth Full all the way to the Jail! This also goes on Record as being arrested! FA should have simply asked her "P or P" (Probation or Parole)?
man. this story was a headline all day. thank you so much for straightening it out. This woman is the bomb! I would call my lawyer 2.
I find her obnoxious and a threat to passenger safety with her attitude and poor treatment of the crew and her inability to cooperate in taking crew orders and keeping things simple without drama.She has emotional problems that no airline can fix.
Do feel sorry for her though its very sad to see someone like this and I'm sure underneath her complexity may be a good person.
She wasn't going /exiting the plane...
I find her obnoxious and a threat to passenger safety with her attitude and poor treatment of the crew and her inability to cooperate in taking crew orders and keeping things simple without drama.She has emotional problems that no airline can fix.
Do feel sorry for her though its very sad to see someone like this and I'm sure underneath her complexity may be a good person.
She wasn't going /exiting the plane unless Dr Dao style kicking and screaming
I wouldn't want her in my row or close to my row
We are only seeing part of what happened. If the passenger gave a “no” or some type of sassy answer, the next step would be relocating the passenger, not throwing them off. This may have escalated after the passenger refused to switch seats, promising she would help. And Ben, passengers are expected to help in an evacuation beyond opening a door. In a land evacuation, three able body assistants are needed at each exit. Two...
We are only seeing part of what happened. If the passenger gave a “no” or some type of sassy answer, the next step would be relocating the passenger, not throwing them off. This may have escalated after the passenger refused to switch seats, promising she would help. And Ben, passengers are expected to help in an evacuation beyond opening a door. In a land evacuation, three able body assistants are needed at each exit. Two passengers are to help at the bottom of the slide, helping others off and sending them to a third passenger, who is gathering everyone away from the aircraft.
How can you trust her to save anyone else but herself after her comment? If the flight attendant asked again in the way you suggested, and she lies, now what?
Safety is no joke. She should be booted off for her initial comment alone!
The Flight Attendant unnecessarily escalated the incident. She could have laughed and then said, as most FAs do, "m'am, the law requires I receive a verbal 'yes' from each of you." The passenger thought she was being funny, but sometimes jokes are inappropriate and can cause an unfortunate response, as in this case. Both passenger and FA could have handled this better.
Not really, if the flight attendant is 'encouraging' her to say yes and if there was a real emergency, she could easily say she already told the flight attendant she wasn't going to co-operate and that the FA said it was fine, making the airline liable. Never give these people a free way out, they're just irresponsible and unreasonable.
PAX at fault 100%, but why did they have to vacate completely the plane?? This is totally ridiculous, just remove the unruly PAX and move on.
They removed other passengers from the aircraft to minimize injuries should that nutcase go ballistic. Common sense to reduce other influence, injuries. Duh.
Enough of expecting de escalation from employees. Unless she was flying for the first time in her life, the only acceptable response is “Yes”. Talking about deescalation from employees. Even she could have deescalated, by saying Yes after she initially nodded.
At some point the customers have to take responsibility for their behavior. She was hostile throughout the encounter and with every employee. She is completely at fault and there’s nothing endearing about her.
Well said. Also to those who say “it’s a crew problem, just reassign her seat” —
1) you’re assuming there were seats available.
2) you’re assuming she agreed or would have agreed to such a change.
1) you’re assuming there were seats available.
Ummm, by definition, if she has a seat in an exit row, she can be swapped with someone else not in an exit row.
Sure, good customer service would be explaining the process. But this is safety. If she’s going to have an attitude about something so small as saying “yes”, I don’t want to have to depend on her during an emergency.
I am sure she did not want to switch. Exit row on Frontier is sold as preferred seating.
The airline did not remove an honest woman. They removed a woman not capable of understanding that an exit row comes with obligations. And she is not in the same position as other passengers who say yes when they mean no. Cabin crew needs a yes and it’s not up to them to challenge whether you mean it. A no in the other hand is clear and leads to immediate ejection from the seat.
This former Flight Attendant couldn't agree more. While the F/a could have explained " I just need a "YES" Ma'am.... the pax was copping attitude from the get. Crews don't play.
Exactly, as others have said, if she's this much of a problem preflight, how is she going to behave in an emergency? The Crew made the right decision. She hopefully learned a lesson. (but I doubt it)
Yes, Lucky. I'm sure everyone who had to deplane and put up with this delay is also "applauding her honesty."
I don't really see why she has to leave the plane. If she refuses to say "yes", can't she just be moved to another seat? I'm sure many passengers would be happy to switch, so the issue is resolved without offloading anyone.
I am sure she did not want to switch. Exit row on Frontier is sold as preferred seating.
if she's going to be a problem on the ground she's going to be a worse problem in the air, they were right to deplane her.
When asked if I'm willing and able to assist in the case of an emergency I have often said, "I can't wait". It usually gets a chuckle from the FA. I've never been chastised for being overly affirmative.
well well well
Ben, it's your blog but do you really want to go the tabloid road?
If it's tabloid you're really thinking of, check out View from the Wing. It's a garbage blog that exists for clickbait.
A flying garbage truck in the sky is the way I would describe Frontier and Spirit.
Don't forget Allegiant!
THIS
I despise people like this. The fact she has an attorney on speed dial tells me even more about her.
You honestly think that she was calling an attorney?! She was most probably pretending to call an attorney as a scare tactic.
That woman can’t even spell attorney, much less have one on speed dial!
Ah Frontier.....so many cliches'
Made me chuckle alittle bit. She was calling her attorney while having a snack!
But honestly, wouldn't protocol be to sit her elsewhere if she's not willing to help? Some things only happen in the US.
Every time I've been assigned an exit row in recent memory, I get the first "willing to help in an emergency" ask when scanning my boarding pass at the gate. So ostensibly, to get this far, she lied to the gate agent and this all could have been avoided with a pre-boarding seat switch. Then, the FA should have just responded with another seat switch offer when she refused--it's unclear if the FA ever offered...
Every time I've been assigned an exit row in recent memory, I get the first "willing to help in an emergency" ask when scanning my boarding pass at the gate. So ostensibly, to get this far, she lied to the gate agent and this all could have been avoided with a pre-boarding seat switch. Then, the FA should have just responded with another seat switch offer when she refused--it's unclear if the FA ever offered that as a solution? Granted, it sounds like the passenger was already antagonistic and not letting the FA get a word in edgewise, and as was pointed out, airlines can give you the boot on vibes alone. I think a vast majority of the blame here is on the passenger.
I don’t see anything endearing about her behavior. Although it may seem trivial, she essentially caused everyone else a big headache and delay of travel plans.
What kind of nonsense is that? Why remove someone from the flight just because they can't / don't want to assist in case of an emergency? This is, once again, simply a case of US FAs enjoying their power trip. In literally every other jurisdiction, situations like this are simply dealt with reseating the passenger somewhere else. Happened to me before when I kinda got stuck with an exit row seat and didn't want to...
What kind of nonsense is that? Why remove someone from the flight just because they can't / don't want to assist in case of an emergency? This is, once again, simply a case of US FAs enjoying their power trip. In literally every other jurisdiction, situations like this are simply dealt with reseating the passenger somewhere else. Happened to me before when I kinda got stuck with an exit row seat and didn't want to be there due to restrictions it comes with. I simply said that I don't feel comfortable/able to assist in an emergency, and that was it, crew found someone who wanted to swap (as mentioned, quite a few people find these seats desirable) and we were on our way.
Did you see how she reacted. If she would be asked to be reseated she would still not move. It’s a behaviour. People like that think they have all the rights.
You pay for an exit row seat on Frontier. You really think she is going to voluntarily move?
Are you kidding... this woman's behavior was selfish entitlement. Don't blame the crew. She did this to herself and, unfortunately, to everyone else on the plane.
Often during the safety briefing the crew will say something like “if you’re unable or unwilling to assist during an emergency, let a crew member know and we will reseat you.” The easiest solution here would have been for them to offer to reseat the passenger by seeing if someone else in a similarly desirable seat (e.g. a bulkhead) would be willing to switch.
Unrelated: if we really cared about exit row folks assisting...
Often during the safety briefing the crew will say something like “if you’re unable or unwilling to assist during an emergency, let a crew member know and we will reseat you.” The easiest solution here would have been for them to offer to reseat the passenger by seeing if someone else in a similarly desirable seat (e.g. a bulkhead) would be willing to switch.
Unrelated: if we really cared about exit row folks assisting in a case of emergency, we wouldn’t give them free booze (which they get on many airlines - though not Frontier, where I think you have to swipe your credit card before the oxygen mask will drop).
AIR ASIA don't serve you ANY alcohol from the onboard menu when sitting in the exit row. It can be done if you take "we are here for your safety" serious
I would imagine the deescalating part of FA training is left out for ULCCs