I’m sure there will be strong views on this on both sides, though I think there’s no denying that what this woman did is bold, if nothing else.
Elin Ersson, a Swedish student, learned that an Afghan man was scheduled to be deported from Sweden on a flight from Gothenburg to Istanbul on Monday. Knowing this, she decided to buy a ticket on the same flight. She boarded the plane, and refused to sit down or deplane until the deportee was removed from the flight.
She live-streamed the entire thing on Facebook in English.
Now, I think it goes without saying that something like this wouldn’t work in the US, because no doubt she would have been dragged off the plane (violently, if needed). But Sweden is different in that way, and in this case she succeeded… sort of.
After it was clear that she wouldn’t sit down and wouldn’t voluntarily get off the plane, the man being deported was removed from the flight, at which point she got off the plane as well. Media reports suggest that the Afghan main remains in custody and will eventually face deportation. Meanwhile police have said that the woman could face fines or jail time for not obeying a pilot’s orders while on a plane.
In the video you can see passengers becoming increasingly angrier with her over delaying the flight. She says she just can’t see this man deported to Afghanistan, and most likely be killed. Other passengers cheer her on and support her.
Here’s the video, for anyone who is interested, which is quite emotional:
https://www.facebook.com/elin.k.ersson/videos/vb.747896273/10155723956991274
This was a bold move on her part, and without knowing the full background, I share her sadness at the overall situation. I doubt this will have an impact on whether or not the guy eventually gets deported, but perhaps more public displays like this will eventually lead to change, whatever form that may come in.
(Tip of the hat to Woodrow)
Swedish student who refused to sit down on flight in effort to stop man's deportation to Afghanistan is indicted - Fox News
Ellen Errson is brave girl ,she shows human being to world , i respect each drop of her tears .
Nowdays if someone give his/her blood to sombody still the poeple doubt it oh she is attention seeking that is big fault and very bad thought minimally if you dont know the details then you have to think positive first .
I respect europe rules ,everything is clear there and milloin thanks from...
Ellen Errson is brave girl ,she shows human being to world , i respect each drop of her tears .
Nowdays if someone give his/her blood to sombody still the poeple doubt it oh she is attention seeking that is big fault and very bad thought minimally if you dont know the details then you have to think positive first .
I respect europe rules ,everything is clear there and milloin thanks from their kindness to accept the most unlucky poeple in the world and obviuosly if somebody is a threat for them they have to deport him.
But they way she chosed was very emotional and painfull ,her crying and passengers bad feeling was not the only option .
Now the Europe should make their poeple reassure that they are doing the justice properly and they dont need to worry about it ,which i m as afghan realise and accepting most of europe countries justice.
For me her emotion and great feeling is very worthfull.
Long live Ellen Errson
I'm from the USA but lived in Sweden 25 years ago. They are a wonderfully generous people who welcomed those who struggled from around the globe. I met people from South America, Africa, and Eastern Europe, people hoping for a better life. Many refugees were welcomed in and even took the lower paying jobs the Swedes didn't want. There were some who were denied asylum in the country. This girl is a product of that...
I'm from the USA but lived in Sweden 25 years ago. They are a wonderfully generous people who welcomed those who struggled from around the globe. I met people from South America, Africa, and Eastern Europe, people hoping for a better life. Many refugees were welcomed in and even took the lower paying jobs the Swedes didn't want. There were some who were denied asylum in the country. This girl is a product of that Sweden that welcomed people. While the country, lately, has had contention about immigration there are still many who still want to welcome immigrants.
I don't have the full story and I agree that the actions of this girl only delayed a deportation, but I think it's admirable for people to peacefully stand up to what they think is incorrect. In many other places in the world this type of protest would have turned violent.
@GUWonder, thanks for your reasoned comments
@ racist Jim, you failed to answer the questions asked of you. If the country is so safe for Afghans to be sent there after years of living abroad, when can we get photographic evidence of you daring to sleep for a week on the streets of Kabul around a marketplace open to the general Afghan public and doing so without weapons of your own very close by, without armed protection within ear-shot, and not...
@ racist Jim, you failed to answer the questions asked of you. If the country is so safe for Afghans to be sent there after years of living abroad, when can we get photographic evidence of you daring to sleep for a week on the streets of Kabul around a marketplace open to the general Afghan public and doing so without weapons of your own very close by, without armed protection within ear-shot, and not in a heavily fortified area? Answer my questions asked if you, and then I’ll consider your questions asked of me. ;)
@ George,
Stop pretending to care about the rule of law. The rule of law applicable to Afghan refugees in Sweden legally binds Sweden and the US not to send people back to places where their life and limbs may be in jeopardy due to credible fear of physical violence along treaty-protected lines applicable to so-called civilized countries. As you may have failed to note, the US government is not unlike in Sweden in having a strong advisory about how unsafe it is to go to Afghanistan.
There is no unitary culture or morals to respect in civilized, so-called democratic countries. There should be the rule of law, but when the public and their governmental authorities play games to disrespect the rule of law and thereby remove people against the rule of law to which the country has signed up, then what kind of signal does that send? The signal it sends is this: that the rule of law is least applicable to the strongest, most popular and most capable parties but not applicable to the weaker, unpopular and least capable parties. And so people get deported because the rule of law was so creatively circumvented as to be a sign that the rule of law is but a sham when the privileged want it to be. Is that sham approach part of the culture and morality you want followed? Then you would seem to be a supporter of fraudulent refugee claims or someone who thinks circumventing the rule of law in the spirit of xenophobia is (or should be) part of the morality and culture of the places where people claim refugee/asylum status. Immoral birds of the same feather, or bad moral birds of the same feather. ;)
@ racist guwonder, I was last in Afghanistan about two years ago - when were you there? Bringing President Trump into the discussion only make you look more the fool. And yes; I still support sending criminal Afghans back to the very streets I was walking just a short time ago.
I don't really care what anyone says and you can call me a racist if you like. I am completely in favour of affording refugee status to GENUINE refugees and welcoming them into our country. But affording refugee status is a privilege and should be conditional on refugees respecting our laws, our morals and our culture. And with this privilege comes a responsibility to respect the rule of law at all times. If not, they...
I don't really care what anyone says and you can call me a racist if you like. I am completely in favour of affording refugee status to GENUINE refugees and welcoming them into our country. But affording refugee status is a privilege and should be conditional on refugees respecting our laws, our morals and our culture. And with this privilege comes a responsibility to respect the rule of law at all times. If not, they should be deported and if that means returning them to a country where their life is in danger, then so be it. They have the choice to abide by our laws in the first place, if they don't, it is them who are putting themselves in danger because ultimately, they are responsible for their own actions and the result of their actions is deportation. The refugee system is already being abused in most western nations and in many cases we have no way of ascertaining who is genuine and who is not. We should at least be able to require absolute adherence to our laws as a condition.
so where is the link to the video????
she should have been Dr. Daod and taken off in a stretcher! Where are the rent a cops from United when you need them?!
I mean seriously, other people have places to be and things to do. How does she know someone wasn't trying to rush home or had a connection to see a sick loved one who could have been on their last day or even hours?! Very selfish!
Great work Elin!
Trump’s own US State Department advises against going to Afghanistan:
Here is what State.gov says:
“Do not travel to Afghanistan due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, and armed conflict.
“Travel to all areas of Afghanistan is unsafe because of high levels of kidnappings, hostage taking, suicide bombings, widespread military combat operations, landmines, and terrorist and insurgent attacks, including attacks using vehicle-borne or other improvised explosive devices (IEDs), suicide vests, and grenades. Attacks have targeted...
Trump’s own US State Department advises against going to Afghanistan:
Here is what State.gov says:
“Do not travel to Afghanistan due to crime, terrorism, civil unrest, and armed conflict.
“Travel to all areas of Afghanistan is unsafe because of high levels of kidnappings, hostage taking, suicide bombings, widespread military combat operations, landmines, and terrorist and insurgent attacks, including attacks using vehicle-borne or other improvised explosive devices (IEDs), suicide vests, and grenades. Attacks have targeted official Afghan and U.S. government convoys and facilities, foreign embassies, military installations, commercial entities, non-governmental organization (NGO) offices, hospitals, residential compounds, places of worship, restaurants, hotels, airports, and schools.
“Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Afghanistan. Terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, public gatherings, markets/shopping malls, and local government buildings.
The U.S. Embassy's ability to provide routine and emergency services to U.S. citizens in Afghanistan is severely limited, particularly outside of Kabul. Evacuation options from Afghanistan are extremely limited due to the lack of infrastructure, geographic constraints, and the volatile security situation.
“Family members cannot accompany U.S. government employees who work in Afghanistan. Unofficial travel to Afghanistan by U.S. government employees and their family members is restricted and requires prior approval from the Department of State. U.S. Embassy personnel are restricted from traveling to all locations in Kabul except the U.S. Embassy and other U.S. government facilities unless there is a compelling U.S. government interest in permitting such travel that outweighs the risk. Additional security measures are needed for any U.S. government employee travel and movement through Afghanistan.
“Due to risks to civil aviation operating within or in the vicinity of Afghanistan, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) and/or a Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR).”
That is from the still running Level 4 warning about going to Afghanistan.
Jim,
When and where was the last time you were in Kabul and wandering around amongst the general Afghani public in Afghanistan without weapons within arm’s reach or armed guards within ear-shot?
I have been familiar with Afghans and Afghanistan before and after 9/11, before the Taliban and even before the Soviet invasion. You can only dream that people will fall for your distracting, meritless claims about me and ingore your xenophobic-rooted inhumanity toward Afghans...
Jim,
When and where was the last time you were in Kabul and wandering around amongst the general Afghani public in Afghanistan without weapons within arm’s reach or armed guards within ear-shot?
I have been familiar with Afghans and Afghanistan before and after 9/11, before the Taliban and even before the Soviet invasion. You can only dream that people will fall for your distracting, meritless claims about me and ingore your xenophobic-rooted inhumanity toward Afghans and Muslims in general, a la your beloved Trump. ;)
Having been to Afghanistan neither makes nor unmakes a typical Trump-like racist.
So why do you support the deportation of Afghans back to violent Afghanistan if today you won’t even dare to sleep on the streets by yourself in an open public marketplace in Kabul for a week without weapons around to protect yourself and/or to be protected by others with weapons for hire in one way or the other? Afghanistan isn’t your momma’s basement. ;)
@ guwonder As I said, you are a racist; you will never convince me otherwise. Changing the subject to the current occupant of the White House only shows how weak your argument is. And no; you do not know more about Afghanistan than I. Try leaving your mom's basement and go visit there. Walk the streets of Kabul and other cities and villages as I have and actually talk with Afghans and maybe, just maybe, you will learn something.
Jim,
Stand by whatever you claim, just like Trump stands by his fictional claim to have had a bigger POTUS inauguration audience on the Mall in 2017 than Obama had in 2009. ;)
Unlike you, I stand by the facts (and oppose fiction except as entertainment), as I’m no Trump-supporting snowflake needing the comfort of fiction to try to feel good. ;)
You claim I have no idea about Afghanistan. Your claim on...
Jim,
Stand by whatever you claim, just like Trump stands by his fictional claim to have had a bigger POTUS inauguration audience on the Mall in 2017 than Obama had in 2009. ;)
Unlike you, I stand by the facts (and oppose fiction except as entertainment), as I’m no Trump-supporting snowflake needing the comfort of fiction to try to feel good. ;)
You claim I have no idea about Afghanistan. Your claim on that front is amusing as the third-rate work of fiction that it is; and your claim on that is as meritless as your other (racist) unsubstantiated claim about me. Thank you for your effort to be an author of fact, but you flopped by posing as an author of fact when you haven’t even escaped the fiction section with your claims about me.
I had enough info about the deplaned Afghan to know more than you wish I would know about him and about Afghanistan as it relates to him too.
My guess is that I understand more of the Afghan languages on my
own and its history than you do, and that I also understand more Swedish and about Swedish governmental actions than you do. And it’s a very educated guess. ;)
And no, I’m no Afghan. Nor am I a Swede. I’m a plain old, anti-xenophobic, flag-waving American who believes that Trumpists are an anathema to what has made America great and will make it even greater after Trumpism is discarded into the dustbin of history.
@guwonder I stand by what I said; you are a racist. You know nothing about this person or of Afghanistan. You have no idea about his family, his tribe, or his personal history outside of his conviction of assault. Your assumption that returning him to his country of origin is automatically "a potential death sentence" is asinine at best, and yes; absolutely racist.
Jim,
Afghanistan has a lot of violent conflict and circumstances going on where people get persecuted and even killed for being the “wrong” kind of person in the eyes of one or more armed elements there, including sometimes even in the eyes of the governmental “security” forces. The country is at conflict along religious lines, ethnic lines, tribal lines, and even organized crime lines. And even the government is no saint in dealing with its...
Jim,
Afghanistan has a lot of violent conflict and circumstances going on where people get persecuted and even killed for being the “wrong” kind of person in the eyes of one or more armed elements there, including sometimes even in the eyes of the governmental “security” forces. The country is at conflict along religious lines, ethnic lines, tribal lines, and even organized crime lines. And even the government is no saint in dealing with its own citizens whom it may consider to be the “wrong” kind of person, “the other”.
There are credible reasons to believe that Afghanistan is still a place worth escaping and not a place to which all deportable Afghan asylum-seekers/refugees should be returned at present. At least IF you value all human life as equal to your own. Do you? ;) Racists tend to believe in people being unequal and unequal in deserving to be free from facing the risk of persecution and armed conflict. What do you believe? I believe that even criminals guilty of assault with a 2 year prison sentence don’t deserve a potential death sentence. Do you?
“I’m not racist but ......” Your kind of words, Jim? ;)
Jim,
How do I sound like a racist? Absent your ability to provide evidence of what words of mine are racist, it’s more sound to assume you sound more like a Trump-supporting snowflake than that I sound like a racist to any objective, non-xenophobic person who knows a Trump-supporting, xenophobic hypocrite when they encounter one. ;)
@ guwonder you sound like a racist
QUOTE: "a place where they may be subject to persecution and perhaps even death for being the “wrong” kind of person in the intended destination/home country"
Hans Lippens, a spokesman for the Swedish Police in Gothenburg, said Ms. Ersson’s refusal to sit down constituted a civil infraction but not a crime.
“It is up to Turkish Airlines to sue the woman for the two- to three-hour delay,” he said. “There can be costs associated with delays. She has not done anything punishable from a police perspective.”
The above is from the NYT article on this matter.
Sven Larsson, if Sweden is such a dump and the embarassment of Europe, why don’t you surrender Scandinavian connections — name included — for a life as a Hungarian Putin-lover resident in say Moscow or his career-boosting window to the West in Russia and elsewhere in Eastern Europe?
There is nothing nationalistic about a Swede or other Scandinavian bashing Sweden/Nordic/Scandinavian countries? How did Sweden mess you up so much that you hate Sweden?
The so-called...
Sven Larsson, if Sweden is such a dump and the embarassment of Europe, why don’t you surrender Scandinavian connections — name included — for a life as a Hungarian Putin-lover resident in say Moscow or his career-boosting window to the West in Russia and elsewhere in Eastern Europe?
There is nothing nationalistic about a Swede or other Scandinavian bashing Sweden/Nordic/Scandinavian countries? How did Sweden mess you up so much that you hate Sweden?
The so-called Swedish nationalists of the xenophobic sort come across as being fundamentally anti-patriotic by trash-talking on a country they claim to supposedly care about — all while also milking the Swedish social welfare system in their own ways.
Being convicted for assault with a 2 year prison sentence (it that was even served behind bars) doesn’t justify deporting a person to a place where they may be subject to persecution and perhaps even death for being the “wrong” kind of person in the intended destination/home country.
That said, this Swedish woman was trying to prevent the deportation of a different Afghan male than the one who ended up being on her flight, but...
Being convicted for assault with a 2 year prison sentence (it that was even served behind bars) doesn’t justify deporting a person to a place where they may be subject to persecution and perhaps even death for being the “wrong” kind of person in the intended destination/home country.
That said, this Swedish woman was trying to prevent the deportation of a different Afghan male than the one who ended up being on her flight, but she had the semblance of reason to recognize that what applies to the Afghan guy closer to her age was also applicable to the 50+ year old Afghan guy placed on her plane and even stuck to her legal guns once she decided that it was worth it for the younger Afghan guy who never ended up actually being placed on her flights plane. At least her civil disobedience seems consistent in what is its underlying principle.
It’s still to be seen whether this act of civil disobedience will result in criminal prosecution. Sweden isn’t the US, so I won’t gamble a guess one way or the other. But this woman has the benefit of appearing to be at least somewhat ethnically Swedish in Sweden and thus more likely to get a break from the police and prosecutors than say a male Afghan refugee/asylum seeker.
knodde, what immigration court? Migrationsverket is a dysfunctional mess, and its decisions relatively often end up in the regular administrative courts (and less frequently to the administrative appeals court) due to disputes about the legality of their decisions.
This post must be in the top ten posts for number of comments!
@rkc and the rest who think this was a good thing. You are fully aware that the Afghan man was a convicted criminal, right? He was convicted for assault and a two year prison sentence. Why is it a good thing to stop sending this man out of the country? You should think of the victim because she didn’t for sure. She’s just another idealistic youth craving for attention when her instagram doesn’t give her...
@rkc and the rest who think this was a good thing. You are fully aware that the Afghan man was a convicted criminal, right? He was convicted for assault and a two year prison sentence. Why is it a good thing to stop sending this man out of the country? You should think of the victim because she didn’t for sure. She’s just another idealistic youth craving for attention when her instagram doesn’t give her enough and she obviously doesn’t care about consequences for others.
@Peter Your liberal friends block conservatives with shadow bans, attack them in restaurants, etc, etc, etc. The liberal news is 92% negative on Trump, yet was 90%+ positive on Obama. Obama and Clinton did their own gerrymandering - President Trump is simple leveling the playing field. Your side is so terrible they need to wear facemasks - if they were the least bit legitimate they would be proud to show their faces.
@Chris - the current white house banning reporters for asking questions, GOP gerrymandering, Charlottesville beating and killing of counter protestors... if you insist on comparing the extremists on one side to the centrists on the other, of course you see the former as being worse.
@Chris, no the Nazis weren't "socialists" in the way that you think. Don't fall victim to that old trap of being confused by the name.
First time for me responding to anything here. However, anyone seeking refugee as an asylum seeker in Sweden will have his or her case tried in the immigration court, further to that, they can appeal that to a higher court. So no one is deported from the country without proper judicial test.
So in this case is actually obstructing the court of law, and to be honest, one that is very forgiving. So can't really see how this can be seen as a positive?
@William,
I'll give it a go. Why is being a leftist so bad? It has to do with methods. Conservatives will argue tooth and nail, this and that, round and round, but they don't typically attack your rights. They won't deny you your right to free speech, to free assembly, etc., in the pursuit of their ideas. Leftists on the other hand, do. Look at Antifa. Look at BAMN. That's pretty much what they...
@William,
I'll give it a go. Why is being a leftist so bad? It has to do with methods. Conservatives will argue tooth and nail, this and that, round and round, but they don't typically attack your rights. They won't deny you your right to free speech, to free assembly, etc., in the pursuit of their ideas. Leftists on the other hand, do. Look at Antifa. Look at BAMN. That's pretty much what they do. Attend any political rally at UC Berzerkely and you'll see what I'm talking about. Leftists will attack your free speech rights, for example, in order to silence you. They'll riot and make your life miserable because they believe that they're so right that the means matter more than the cause. They don't want there to be a debate. Conservatives do.
Now, someone here will doubtless attack me for this point of view but history largely proves my case. They'll say, The Nazis were conservatives!" Actually, no they weren't. The Nazis were socialists (National Socialist German Workers Party), and the Brown Shirts brawling in the streets with opposition parties looks very familiar to what Antifa is doing.
The moral of the story is that it isn't necessarily what you say, its how you say it, and Leftists historically have chosen to speak with violence and intimidation.
@ William:
Good call. There are plenty of issues I care about, but I could never delay a flight in order to protest something...it's selfish and rude.
@Jim What is it so bad to be a “leftist”???
@Nick
Lucky even said that this incident would probably not fly in the U.S, so I doubt protesting gun rights on a plane (in the U.S) would go down well.
This person isn't a heroine at all. She is a selfish idiot who disrupted the agendas of hundreds of passengers. While I don't think anybody needed to be dragged off the plane like Dr Dao, she had to be removed and prosecuted. THIS is the rule of law. If she doesn't abide by the law, then SHE is the one who needs to move to another country.
Sweden is such a dump. The embarrassment of Europe
@ Debit's sister:
Not tolerant of The Bill of Rights? That says a lot about you.
Progressive ideas? I support gay marriage and marijuana legalization. Do you have any more ignorant assumptions?
No, we would not be tolerant of that @Nick. Just like your ilk is not tolerant of any progressive idea. You reap what you sow. Your hatred can only be uprooted with more hatred.
By the way, I'm willing to be that you only support her actions because you agree with her view on the matter.
What if I (as an NRA member) delayed a flight because I was protesting strict gun laws in California? Would you guys be tolerant of that?
@HQ:
Bless your heart. And for the record, I have referred to men as "attention whores" in the past.
Her actions were VERY selfish. What if somebody on that flight was trying to see a loved one on their deathbed? Attend a funeral? Etc.
Sweden has one of the most liberal and open asylum policies in Europe. If the Swedish authorities decided that this man needed to be deported, then I have faith in the Swedish determination that the proper legal framework was followed and that he needed to be removed from the country.
We'll see how this "protester" feels after unfettered immigration robs her of the social programs that Swedes are proud of, and pay massive taxes...
Sweden has one of the most liberal and open asylum policies in Europe. If the Swedish authorities decided that this man needed to be deported, then I have faith in the Swedish determination that the proper legal framework was followed and that he needed to be removed from the country.
We'll see how this "protester" feels after unfettered immigration robs her of the social programs that Swedes are proud of, and pay massive taxes for. She has the right to protest but not to hold up everyone else. She needs to be arrested and prosecuted, not to mention made to pay for any costs accrued due to her actions. I still can't understand why she would say that her actions were legal when she was clearly interfering with the valid orders of the flight and cabin crews; typical liberal lunacy at its finest.
@jim,
Just like your argument. No proof, no causation. Nothing. Just that 15% of population was immigrants in 2010.
Must be all the white rapists that moved from USA to sweden. Prove that's not true and then we may even consider counterarguing the BS you are spouting.
@ sweet little debit
QUOTE: all the rapists were whites just like in the USA
WOW!!! So well thought out!! So articulate!!! Just as we have come to expect from you!!!
@ flaps no one said anything about whether or not you liked America, but since you can't win the argument just change the subject!!! Keep running sweetheart!!!
@jim,
How many rapes were committed by immigrants?
"859,000 (64.6%) were born outside the European Union and 477,000 (35.4%) were born in another EU member state.[3]"
Maybe all the rapists were whites just like in the USA.
Congrats OMAAT, because you think you know Swedish immigration policy better than the authorities you have convinced me to never, ever use your affiliate links. Well done. My sincerest sympathies to the hundreds of travelers, airline industry workers and law enforcement officers who were effected by this brat.
@Jim
Old boy, I don't think you have a scooby what your talking about... you're the one advocating comparing countries whilst I'm saying it's a bad idea and not representative of, you know, facts. So by your definition, you're the 'leftie'.
I also happen to love America, have lived there and have lots of friends there, some of whom we'll be visiting for vacation in August, so contrary to your rant I find I...
@Jim
Old boy, I don't think you have a scooby what your talking about... you're the one advocating comparing countries whilst I'm saying it's a bad idea and not representative of, you know, facts. So by your definition, you're the 'leftie'.
I also happen to love America, have lived there and have lots of friends there, some of whom we'll be visiting for vacation in August, so contrary to your rant I find I spend a lot of my time defending America and her people, most of whom I know to be fine and honourable human beings.
So, far from me 'running and hiding', I'm afraid it's your tenuous, confused, poorly researched and thought-through arguments that seem to be rather falling apart around your somewhat cotton-clogged ears. But well done for trying, God loves a tryer and I'm sure that's a comfort to you. I'll give you the last word... toodle-pip!
@flaps you very clearly ARE a leftist, no matter how much you deny it. You lefties compare countries all the time - especially when it puts a bad light on the US. It's only when the shoe is on the other foot do you want to run and hide.
@Jim
I don't have a 'leftist' opinion and neither are my politics 'left wing' but my analytical powers are good... I'm well aware of the quite from the article, but if you would also read thoroughly you'd appreciate that it's fairly meaningless... comparing countries that measure and record crimes in different ways and have different reporting culture is almost entirely useless as it provides a distorted view of what's actually going on.
Let's consider...
@Jim
I don't have a 'leftist' opinion and neither are my politics 'left wing' but my analytical powers are good... I'm well aware of the quite from the article, but if you would also read thoroughly you'd appreciate that it's fairly meaningless... comparing countries that measure and record crimes in different ways and have different reporting culture is almost entirely useless as it provides a distorted view of what's actually going on.
Let's consider it in the context of accidents in the commercial air transport sector... you could have one country that has an effective reporting and recording system and where people proactively report accidents, however 'minor' leading to that country having a high accident rate; another country has a culture where people don't report and even if they did accidents are re-classified as 'incidents' and therefore in comparison to the first country it has a much lower accident rate. The comparative rates have nothing to do with the actual reality on the ground.
I didn't think it was that complicated a concept, but clearly I was wrong... do try to keep up, old chap.
Oh sweet little debit, we can always count on your ignorance!!! RESEARCH baby girl!!!
QUOTE: As of 2010, 1.33 million people or 14.3% of the inhabitants of Sweden were foreign-born https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden
@Jim
2010. When did these immigrants start arriving?
@ flaps Try not to pretend that everything that disagrees with your leftist opinion is "right wing"
This is a quote from your BBC article "The 2012 UN international rape rate comparison showed Sweden to have the highest rate of rape in Europe and the second highest in the world" Try reading your own sources and you won't look so foolish.
Here is another one from the BBC: The Swedish police recorded the...
@ flaps Try not to pretend that everything that disagrees with your leftist opinion is "right wing"
This is a quote from your BBC article "The 2012 UN international rape rate comparison showed Sweden to have the highest rate of rape in Europe and the second highest in the world" Try reading your own sources and you won't look so foolish.
Here is another one from the BBC: The Swedish police recorded the highest number of offences - about 63 per 100,000 inhabitants - of any force in Europe, in 2010. The second-https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372ighest in the world.
@ Jim.
So, your 'evidence', or at least your quote above, comes from the Gatestone Institute, a right-wing, anti-muslim 'think tank' known to regularly pump out misinformation in order to stoke anti-immigration populism... you really need to do better than that and you really should get out there and educate yourself. The following link might help...
https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world
Or this one...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39056786
You're welcome.
@ Jim.
So, your 'evidence', or at least your quote above, comes from the Gatestone Institute, a right-wing, anti-muslim 'think tank' known to regularly pump out misinformation in order to stoke anti-immigration populism... you really need to do better than that and you really should get out there and educate yourself. The following link might help...
https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world
Or this one...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39056786
You're welcome.
@Peter and Jim, of course not only 'extreme left protesting is allowed' what a ridiculous thing to say.
There are protests all the time outside abortion clinics which cause great distress (not just delay) to people legally accessing those services. Equally, some in (for example) Northern Ireland make their opposition to same sex marriage abundantly clear, as is their right. I'm just not sure why in either case it would happen on an aeroplane...
@Peter and Jim, of course not only 'extreme left protesting is allowed' what a ridiculous thing to say.
There are protests all the time outside abortion clinics which cause great distress (not just delay) to people legally accessing those services. Equally, some in (for example) Northern Ireland make their opposition to same sex marriage abundantly clear, as is their right. I'm just not sure why in either case it would happen on an aeroplane though, unless of course it was full of people going to get an abortion or of people on their way to marry their same sex partner. I'm not aware that I have ever been on such a flight, but perhaps you two have?
But still, you miss the false equivalence of your argument... the protestors the scenarios that you favour would be protesting against somebody's individual rights and liberties... the brave young woman above was standing up for an individuals' rights and liberties. The two, I'm sure you can see now, are quite different.
And please don't mistake me for a left-winger of any kind, I'm not. I am, however, able to think beyond the narrow-minded confines of political allegiance and recognise a) the importance of civil and human rights in our society and b) the value of someone peacefully and effectively standing up for what they believe in, even if I may not agree with their view.
There is a reason this guy is being deported:
Sweden: Rape Capital of the West Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa.
@Peter
Only extreme left-wing protesting is allowed.
I wonder if all those saying "bravo to this woman for taking a stand" would feel the same way if it were a less chic cause than immigration. Suppose the cause at hand was anti-abortion? Anti-same sex marriage? There do exist other moralities than that exemplified by the political left.
@Joey, @Derek, @EricJ Sorry, we actually have a lower acceptance rate from Afghan asylum seekers than other comparable European nations
@Idaho You're ignorant.
@GUWonder
You just be crazy, naive, ignorant, retarded or all of the above. Sweden used to be a scandinavian paradise before the uncontrolled immigration got out proportion. The “Sweden democrats” party is the natural counterweight to this unfortunate demographic development. Anything else is totally illogical. You’re turning action/reaction on its head, hence my characteristic of your mental capacity.
@Lucky WTF - This is to become ONE POLITICS AT A TIME BLOG now????????
Lucky threw us a bone, YOU TROLLS TOOK THE BAIT.
WTF, from credit card posts to business class reviews now comes the shit that HAS NOTHING BUT POLITICS WHICH DOESN'T BELONG HERE.
This post has the merit of being here???????? If this happens on a car/bus would it even be here.
Firstly, understand that I'm no 'leftie' or 'snowflake' not by a long-shot. But, wow, what an amazing young woman standing up for what she believes in and protesting in a perfectly legitimate way at not inconsiderable risk to herself.
I'm staggered by the response of some of the people in that aircraft, being delayed for a total of under 15 minutes. I'm ashamed of the British man who addressed her so aggressively, trying to use...
Firstly, understand that I'm no 'leftie' or 'snowflake' not by a long-shot. But, wow, what an amazing young woman standing up for what she believes in and protesting in a perfectly legitimate way at not inconsiderable risk to herself.
I'm staggered by the response of some of the people in that aircraft, being delayed for a total of under 15 minutes. I'm ashamed of the British man who addressed her so aggressively, trying to use 'upset' children as a human shield. Any parent worthy of the role would have used this incident as a brilliant, real life learning experience for their children, seeing first hand how protest, freedom of expression and standing up for the dispossessed can work in a healthy democracy.
This young woman was calm, articulate, rational and has more courage in her little finger than most people commenting here on this thread, myself included.
Oh @Jane, you snowflake.
The reality is that she can face criminal prosecution not only for disobeying the pilot but also from preventing Swedish authorities from carrying out a legal order (similarly to obstruction of justice). The guy will have to be deported anyway.
The only thing this achieves is that, should this type of actions generalize, countries will have to charter airplanes to deport people, thereby substantially increasing cost for all of us.
Many of you have no idea what time it is and what is about to happen on planeT earth!
I came for the 102 comments and zero surprise the amount of selfishness that oozed out from many! I wonder how many have put a stranger first, regardless of the consequences. This girl felt it was the right thing to do, very braze on her part. She may suffer for her actions but her Karma points...
Many of you have no idea what time it is and what is about to happen on planeT earth!
I came for the 102 comments and zero surprise the amount of selfishness that oozed out from many! I wonder how many have put a stranger first, regardless of the consequences. This girl felt it was the right thing to do, very braze on her part. She may suffer for her actions but her Karma points are sky high if it was done for the right reasons.
Americans are the most selfish and I pray you will all wake up, but know many will not.
Soon you will ALL be in shock, and will have wished you did something along the lines of this girl.
Good luck to you all! ...no idea, no idea!
A few facts are missing from Ben's story:
The man this student wanted to help was no even on the flight. She discovered that another Afghan man was though, also about to be deported. So she stuck to her original plan. When the man was deplaned, she did not see/understand this.
For anyone that’s arguing “not the time or place,” the guy was on a plane to Erdogan‘s Turkey.
Freedom, democracy and the rule of law has to protected be from tyranny at every turn. See MLK Jr’s letter from the Birmingham Jail:
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate....
For anyone that’s arguing “not the time or place,” the guy was on a plane to Erdogan‘s Turkey.
Freedom, democracy and the rule of law has to protected be from tyranny at every turn. See MLK Jr’s letter from the Birmingham Jail:
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
Wonderful and to be greatly admired. Some minor inconvenience to other passengers but for the greater good.
It was a worthwhile display on her part, but the situation could have been resolved rapidly by the removal of the girl. She was standing anyway.
And in a few years she will become wife number three to a strange guy ... Good luck!
"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity.”
Always rather liked this quotation...(and from a Yank)...
Brave young lady...well done....
The disobedient person 1) Intentionally 2) disobeyed the orders of captain and 3) consequently, 4) the plane got delayed, and the government had to spend extra money to enforce the law. Hence, it is a tort - and the passengers and the government should file damage claim against the disobedient person. Period.
If I were the passenger, I definitely would look to filing a damage claim against government for failing to remove the disruptive...
The disobedient person 1) Intentionally 2) disobeyed the orders of captain and 3) consequently, 4) the plane got delayed, and the government had to spend extra money to enforce the law. Hence, it is a tort - and the passengers and the government should file damage claim against the disobedient person. Period.
If I were the passenger, I definitely would look to filing a damage claim against government for failing to remove the disruptive passenger in timely manner and causing delays.
What an incredible video and an even more incredible, fabulous young woman
I am amazed how well the Turkish flight attendants handled the situation.
"I doubt this will have an impact on whether or not the guy eventually gets deported, but perhaps more public displays like this will eventually lead to change, whatever form that may come in."
Lucky, I'm really disappointed in your final comment. I take from it that your'e mealy-mouthed about the issue and won't take a position because you're more interested in stepping back and enjoying the clicks. Should the guy be deported? Should she...
"I doubt this will have an impact on whether or not the guy eventually gets deported, but perhaps more public displays like this will eventually lead to change, whatever form that may come in."
Lucky, I'm really disappointed in your final comment. I take from it that your'e mealy-mouthed about the issue and won't take a position because you're more interested in stepping back and enjoying the clicks. Should the guy be deported? Should she be protected? If you're not going to take a stand, then why the heck bring it up at all? Stand for something, Ben.
If you're going to bring it up as an issue, then step up and take a stand.
@Scanditino & @Chris Though I will never be as brave as that young lady... yes what she did and (so far) got away with is something that her white privilege bestows but how is using her white privilege to stand up and protect an underprivileged person exploitative? Using her luck and position in the world to help someone with less luck and position is a good thing.
Commenters getting upset and saying lock her up...
@Scanditino & @Chris Though I will never be as brave as that young lady... yes what she did and (so far) got away with is something that her white privilege bestows but how is using her white privilege to stand up and protect an underprivileged person exploitative? Using her luck and position in the world to help someone with less luck and position is a good thing.
Commenters getting upset and saying lock her up because she DELAYED a flight for TWO MEASLY HOURS are petulant children. It's 2018, delays happen for far pettier reasons.
...I generally avoid comment wars because they're pointless but this one at least in principle is not.
@keepingitreal I haven't said one mean thing and you come and attack me. I'm just trying to be nice and defend my party. I don't want an argument. I just want y'all to not judge people based on there party. How would you feel if I said "I hate them cause there a Democrat." You wouldn't like that I bet. So let's not argue and let's all be nice to one another. Because a big...
@keepingitreal I haven't said one mean thing and you come and attack me. I'm just trying to be nice and defend my party. I don't want an argument. I just want y'all to not judge people based on there party. How would you feel if I said "I hate them cause there a Democrat." You wouldn't like that I bet. So let's not argue and let's all be nice to one another. Because a big problem in our country is that people aren't respecting others. You should always respect everyone and I hope that you will come to your senses and realize that your political POV shouldn't define who you are. So I hope that you won't be an online troll. I hope that you say only nice things or say nothing at all.
What she did was amazing and inspiring. What she did was within EU law and in her right to do so, bad I been on that flight with a right connection to catch I’d have stood up with her and missed my connection for this cause. Incredibly bold but brave. However on the flip side it is at Turkish airlines discretion to blacklist her from flying them, which would be logical from their point of view as a business
DAVID CURREN RU RETARDED???????????1?????
IT IS NOTT JUST DEMS FREAKING OUT U DUM AHOLE!!!!!!!!!1!!!! DRRUMPF IS SELLING OUT THE USA TO THE RUSSIONS SO HE GETS MORE MONEY BEDC AUSE HE IS SO GREEDY!!!!!1!!!
YOU ARE A DUM FUCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get me a coke please!
@David Curran
First off stop scapegoating on the Democrats and Obama. Trump keeps going back to that and blaming them when really we need to focus on today.
First off let’s talk about jobs and the economy. The economy was in terrible shape after the recession in 2018. George Bush dragged us into a pointless war and people were struggling to make ends need. Eventually, the economy recovers and the stock market starts going...
@David Curran
First off stop scapegoating on the Democrats and Obama. Trump keeps going back to that and blaming them when really we need to focus on today.
First off let’s talk about jobs and the economy. The economy was in terrible shape after the recession in 2018. George Bush dragged us into a pointless war and people were struggling to make ends need. Eventually, the economy recovers and the stock market starts going up again. By the time Trump became president, the stock market was going up and things were going well. But, Trump has not actually done anything to improve the economy. It was already going up. For jobs, name a company that kept jobs in the U.S. thanks to Trump. I bet you will say Courier in Indiana. But, guess what, they like many companies, layed more people off because they realized that outsourcing jobs was cheaper and better buisness for them.
Next, Trumps comments. He has used countless steyotypea that Mexicans are rapists and that Muslims are terrorists. He has played to prejudice and fear of Caucasian Americans. He has not condemned white supremacists and he has talked about how he likes to grabs a woman’s p****.
Then on Russia, he has supported a dictator that kills journalists and activists. His campaign has had significant ties with the Kremlin, in fact, the day he said he wanted Hillary to be hacked, the Russians hacked into the DNC. What have the Republicans done to stop the Russian Twitter trolls? Nothing.
Policy wise, he has created a tax plan that benefits billionaires, while not helping working class Americans. He has created a travel ban which systematically disciriminates against Muslims. Then, he decided to separate children from their families on the border. Some of them, are still not reunited weeks after they were separated. So, I ask you, what has he done policy wise to help our country? He has picked fights with foreign leaders and hurt our position on the global stage. Don’t say NK because there were reports that there is still nuclear activity going on.
No wonder the Democrats are freaking out. His prejudice and bigotry towards minorities and abysmal policies really make us worried. You can say Obama messed up with the ACA, but I have to say that Trump’s rhetoric and hate is more dangerous.
The most dangerous thing though is that Republicans, like you, have come to accept it. There might be some good Republicans out there but where are they? What have they done to combat election meddling and Trumps bigotry? Absolutely nothing.
You have become complicit. Your party talks about “morals,” but honestly you don’t have any. You have come to accept a President that likes to grab P****** and spread hate against minorities.
I will not be silent. I will not watch out county go down in flames. Right now, we don’t have any political power, so the only thing we can do is use our voices.
DavidCurran may be more nuts than this girl.
Lucky, maybe you would feel differently if you were on this flight and you missed you onward connection. Like so many did, I'm sure.
@Alex Z: That is precisely the point he is used as scapegoat for all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories which is often linked to his Jewish ancestry based on racist tropes. The bizarre thing is a lot of accusations contradict each other.
Anyway it's obvious this heartwarming story has been hijacked by racist ideologues - I think you hit the nail on head up there William. I would say Ben is responsible for what...
@Alex Z: That is precisely the point he is used as scapegoat for all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories which is often linked to his Jewish ancestry based on racist tropes. The bizarre thing is a lot of accusations contradict each other.
Anyway it's obvious this heartwarming story has been hijacked by racist ideologues - I think you hit the nail on head up there William. I would say Ben is responsible for what is on his blog and it is not acceptable for some of the comments that get posted here to remain. These are not opposing views on a spectrum that should be tolerated, these are views that have no place on the spectrum - they are simply wrong.
@Daniel well said...
@william I understand that Trump hasn’t been perfect but I believe that he has done an amazing job. Sure he has said some bad things but guess what, he is still improving our economy and creating new jobs. So yeah he might not be a good person but he is smart and he is trying too help our country. Also Democrats should not hate on republicans because there are some bad democrats. Also when Obama...
@william I understand that Trump hasn’t been perfect but I believe that he has done an amazing job. Sure he has said some bad things but guess what, he is still improving our economy and creating new jobs. So yeah he might not be a good person but he is smart and he is trying too help our country. Also Democrats should not hate on republicans because there are some bad democrats. Also when Obama won, we didn’t start freaking out and having protests every day. The republicans were not sore losers and we accepted that the other side had one the election. So everyone needs to calm down because many republicans are good and many are bad but that’s the same thing for the democrats. There are good and bad democrats. So yeah u can not just target half of our country. There are some amazing republicans. You just need to put your views aside and listen to what the republicans have to say.
She should go to jail. She delayed everyone on that plane, some people may have missed flight connections, and she interfered with a lawful action by her government. Also, your article calls her a student, but what you don't mention is she is deeply involved with an activist group which was involved in all of this. It wasn't like she was randomly at the airport and just overheard this guy's story and took action. She...
She should go to jail. She delayed everyone on that plane, some people may have missed flight connections, and she interfered with a lawful action by her government. Also, your article calls her a student, but what you don't mention is she is deeply involved with an activist group which was involved in all of this. It wasn't like she was randomly at the airport and just overheard this guy's story and took action. She is opposed to ANY deportations to Afghanistan. She wants to stop them all. I guess influencing legislators or working on campaigns is to influence immigration legislation is too hard for her and her group so they resort to stunts like this. I would have loved to see her try this crap in the US.
@Doug
You misinterpreted what I was saying. The poem talks about what can happen if people do not speak out. But, I do agree it is about genecide.
That being said, my comment is not absurd. This story in Sweden is about about a person speaking up for someone who could be killed if they go back to their own country. Meanwhile, the poem talks about the importance of standing up for people (like...
@Doug
You misinterpreted what I was saying. The poem talks about what can happen if people do not speak out. But, I do agree it is about genecide.
That being said, my comment is not absurd. This story in Sweden is about about a person speaking up for someone who could be killed if they go back to their own country. Meanwhile, the poem talks about the importance of standing up for people (like Jewish people) who are in harms way and could be targeted. Do you see the coralation? While the sintuations are vastly different, these two sintuations share a common theme: the importance of standing up for people who are marginalized in society and face danger. So, I am not crazy to make this comparison. This poem is a great reminder of why it is so important to stand up for people, especially in the world we live in today.
Even though the actions of the traveler did warrant consequences for her and her fellow travelers, I have a lot of respect for the courage it must have took to stand up for her beliefs.
I hope you can see where I am coming from.
@Kevin
Exactly. And I guarantee you there were other people on that bus telling Rosa to give up and take her seat at the back so they could get going.
Rosa Parks disrupted bus service. It was a small first step.
@ vlcnc - George Soros has provided a lot of money for various liberal causes and one of the those causes is the BDS movement which is blatantly anti-Semitic and anti-Israel. Just because Soros is Jewish doesn't mean if his name is mentioned that it is immediately anti-Semitic
All the myopic commentary here just goes to show that some readers need to get away from their screens, get off the planes, leave the airports and actually go see some of the world. Then again, maybe there's no point. You can't argue with stupid.
@William
"What is the problem with that if she accepts the consequences of her actions?"
The problem is that her actions prevented the free travel of a couple of hundred people. They weren't given a choice in this matter, were they?
@Doug: That is precisely the point of the poem, not necessarily in a genocidal context. Its about solidarity and standing with others.
@David Curran
People should be mad at all of the Republicans in power right now. They are not sanding up against Trump’s hate and bigotry and his treasonous behavior, with regards to his relations with Russia. They have put partisanship over the fate of the country, which has led to the emergence of hate and bigotry towards minorities and immigrants. In addition, they have ignored the problems with our election security and while a few...
@David Curran
People should be mad at all of the Republicans in power right now. They are not sanding up against Trump’s hate and bigotry and his treasonous behavior, with regards to his relations with Russia. They have put partisanship over the fate of the country, which has led to the emergence of hate and bigotry towards minorities and immigrants. In addition, they have ignored the problems with our election security and while a few Republicans have called out Trump for his behavior, no action
is happening. This is a very scary time for our country right now.
So, yes, people should be mad at Republicans. Honestly, I don’t blame @Debit for his position. We need people to call the Republicans out for what is happening right now. That being said, some Republicans are good people who are against Trump’s bigotry. But, there are racist and homophobic Republicans that outweigh them. In addition, the vast majority of Republicans are numb to the danger that our country is in, with regards to Russia.
@William
The poem by Martin Niemöller isn't about people who are merely being marginalized, it's about genocide. To invoke it when discussing this man being legally returned to his home country is patently absurd.
Are Jackie and Debit married ??
If this one-person protest had taken place on (or in front of) a bus, this would be a very different conversation. But everything changes because it happened on a plane. Why? It's just another form of mass transportation.
@Ron
She is standing up for what she believes in. What is the problem with that if she accepts the consequences of her actions?
Fonzi,
The western Roman Empire rotted from within and was weakened by invasions of Germanic tribes. Want to blame that on “dark-skinned barbarians”? ;)
Do you cry when you see a Swedish or German woman with a Mexican lover and still miss American racist laws of yesteryears? ;)
Also thank you GUWonder for your patient responses. I have spent time in Sweden and have a good number of Swedish friends including my best friend am very perplexed by this notion of no go areas by people who have never been there. It's simply not true. That's not to say Sweden doesn't have its issues, but this particular point is frankly bizarre.
I'm sad to read so many of the comments on this news article. In as few as forty characters Eli is pilloried and no compassion has been expressed, despite the significance of the situation.
Some have legitimately argued that just law must be followed. I am not in a position to know the full facts of the case, whether the law applied in Sweden is just, or to impose my values on the Swedish...
I'm sad to read so many of the comments on this news article. In as few as forty characters Eli is pilloried and no compassion has been expressed, despite the significance of the situation.
Some have legitimately argued that just law must be followed. I am not in a position to know the full facts of the case, whether the law applied in Sweden is just, or to impose my values on the Swedish people; however, a sense of compassion and weighing my own good fortune with the potential consequences for others prevent me from rushing to judgement.
@Alex Z: See the George Soros conspiracy theory reference above. Classic nonsensical trope used that is both contradictory and grossly anti-semitic in its implications...
I know that many people don’t support Trump, but what @Debit said was extremely offensive. People should not be called dumb for being a Republican. Just because you don’t like Trump doesn’t mean you have to hate all Republicans. People should be allowed to have there own political opinions. So @Debit please don’t say those mean things again because there are many intelligent and nice republicans.
Fonzi,
There are no no-go zones in Sweden.
Even the most “dangerous” parts of Sweden are way safer than the typical 100 mile radius from where Trump owns property within the US.
The worst sections of Gothenburg, Malmo, and Stockholm are nowhere near as bad as the worst sections of the US; rather they tend to be much better than what is encountered in the US.
So Fonzi, how did you acquire your poor...
Fonzi,
There are no no-go zones in Sweden.
Even the most “dangerous” parts of Sweden are way safer than the typical 100 mile radius from where Trump owns property within the US.
The worst sections of Gothenburg, Malmo, and Stockholm are nowhere near as bad as the worst sections of the US; rather they tend to be much better than what is encountered in the US.
So Fonzi, how did you acquire your poor knowledge of Sweden? By ignoring facts and never having spent much time across enough of Sweden?
They should let the Afghan stay and deport her to Afghanistan.
@vlcnc - where did you read Fonzi being anti-Semitic? I usually look out for blatant anti-Semitism but don't see it anywhere here
@Fonzi
I set it in my last response. Give me reputable statistics that prove your claim. You cannot make a baseless claim and expect people to believe it if you don’t have the evidence to back it up.
Also, what to you mean about “people like you help destroy the European civilization.” Are you racist????? Believe it or not, this is a global soctiety and a lot of these people are fleeing violence and civil...
@Fonzi
I set it in my last response. Give me reputable statistics that prove your claim. You cannot make a baseless claim and expect people to believe it if you don’t have the evidence to back it up.
Also, what to you mean about “people like you help destroy the European civilization.” Are you racist????? Believe it or not, this is a global soctiety and a lot of these people are fleeing violence and civil unrest. They could be killed if they stayed in their country. By saying “European civilization,” are you referring to white people???? Just because these people are not white doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve basic human rights and a safe place to live. If you are instead talking economically and stability wise, how will they hurt the stability in Europe? I don’t get it.
If your going to rebut this, please give me some evidence.
Eric J,
Sweden is not a very liberal country. It’s a populist democratic country that is way more closeted right wing than many want to admit and recognize. The Swedish Democrats — a party rooted in neo-Naziesque xenophobia — have their xenophobic desires backed by probably a 3/4 majority of the Swedish population between the support for SD and the right-wing shift of the S, M, KD and L parties in Sweden when it comes...
Eric J,
Sweden is not a very liberal country. It’s a populist democratic country that is way more closeted right wing than many want to admit and recognize. The Swedish Democrats — a party rooted in neo-Naziesque xenophobia — have their xenophobic desires backed by probably a 3/4 majority of the Swedish population between the support for SD and the right-wing shift of the S, M, KD and L parties in Sweden when it comes to immigration. In Sweden, you can pretty much bet that applicants for jobs who have “foreign names” or “female” names are going to get low-balled on salaries compared to the Johan Svenssons of the country.
The immigrants in Sweden who make money from work mostly do it the way that the Swedes with money do: by being in business for themselves. And the taxation of income for business owners in Sweden is better than the taxation of income of business owners in Trumplandia. This is why some Americans in Sweden pay to get rid of their US citizenship, as Trump sucks on taxes of business people way more than the current Swedish regime. Sort of ironic.
It’s a myth to say Sweden is a socialist/left-wing place or utopia of the sort.
"She says she just can’t see this man deported to Afghanistan..." - then perhaps she needs a new prescription.
The comments on this post are truly depressing... Also Ben you need to moderate better - you can't for real allow the ridiculous but anti-semitic comments like the above by Fonzi stand surely?
In future, deportations will be done in special flights to avoid this Situation for paying passengers.
Idaho,
Sweden is not on a downfall. The country is stronger now than it was 20 years ago.
Those unprincipled Trump-supporting hypocrites will never make America as great as the popular American majority who voted against Trumpism. ;)
@fonzi
You're bang on right, but most people are blind to this fact. I wonder what they'll say when their grand-daughters no longer have any rights as women and homosexuality is made illegal again in 50 years time.
DEBIT!!! your liberal left wing low IQ is showing!!! ... No sure why she woman was not thrown in jail tooo?? causing the whole plane full of paying customers to wait on this nonsense>>>>>
Young & dumb. She needs to grow a brain.
Derek,
Was the flight cancelled? Or was it just delayed? ;). Are you saying EC 261/2004 flight cancellation provisions were triggered by this situation? They weren’t. ;)
The ability of Afghan citizens in Sweden to successfully claim/receive asylum status in Sweden (so as to reside indefinitely in Sweden) has taken a big hit at least in 2017 and 2018 compared to say in 2010 or earlier.
Many/most of the Afghans in Sweden who came in 2015 and later are from (or have ethnic/tribal roots in) parts of Afghanistan that are considered to be safer than some other parts of Afghanistan and so...
The ability of Afghan citizens in Sweden to successfully claim/receive asylum status in Sweden (so as to reside indefinitely in Sweden) has taken a big hit at least in 2017 and 2018 compared to say in 2010 or earlier.
Many/most of the Afghans in Sweden who came in 2015 and later are from (or have ethnic/tribal roots in) parts of Afghanistan that are considered to be safer than some other parts of Afghanistan and so are considered subject to deportation still. Also, Afghanistan may not be generally seen as entirely unsafe across the whole country and that has been used as a basis to try to justify deportations of Afghan asylum seekers since they can supposedly relocate internally. Also, a collection of countries basically bribed the Afghan government to enter into an agreement to take back Afghan asylum seekers from parts of Europe even as the Afghan government is basically powerless in its own to run and secure any part of the whole country.
Afghanistan is a bigger mess now than it was three years ago, and yet the chances of Afghans in Sweden to remain in Sweden has dropped a lot compared to 3-7 years ago.
@William
If you do not see the statistics and no go zones in Sweden crated by those immigrant you either ignorant or something else i dont want you to call it but people like you help destroy the European civilization.
Another nice example of leftist brainwashed Soros youth. The western roman Empire fall by invasion of barbaric hordes. Now they event import them and pay them for their cultural amd economical selfdestruction. The human stupidity is limitless.
She is a real hero, and an example in basic human decency. Well done!!
@Jane
How was Lucky’s article biased? Lucky gave the facts and talked about what might happened if this happened in the U.S. Also, how do you know what Lucky’s political agenda is? You need evidence before you make a claim.
Lucky, recommend a different title. Maybe next time.
She didn't stop the deportation by buying a ticket. She stopped it by refusing to sit down.
Swedish student stops deportation by refusing to sit down, cancelling flight.
@Doug
You are missing the point of what @SounderTID said. I saw this quote at the Hollucast Museum in D.C. What the quote is referring to is that we must stand up for people who are marginalized in society, and who cannot speak out. I don’t think the point of their comment was to compare lawful deportation to the Hollucast. I think it was a reminder that we must stand up for these people.
As many have already pointed out, Sweden is a very liberal country, they allow many immigrants in to their country, there must be a reason this man was being deported. I think that Ms. Errson's punishment (or reward) for her actions should be to require this man to move in with her for as long as it takes for him to be on his feet and a contributing member of the Swedish economy. If she...
As many have already pointed out, Sweden is a very liberal country, they allow many immigrants in to their country, there must be a reason this man was being deported. I think that Ms. Errson's punishment (or reward) for her actions should be to require this man to move in with her for as long as it takes for him to be on his feet and a contributing member of the Swedish economy. If she is willing to do this then her actions have some merit, if not, they are just a hollow, empty gesture.
@Idaho
While it was an inconvenience for some passengers, it is ok for people to do that if they accept the consequences.
Also, don’t say that refugees and immigrants have made Sweden unsafe. There are plenty of Swedish nationals who have committed crimes and have been unlawful. Do not make a generalization about large groups of people. I get so frustrated when President Trump calls Mexican “rapists” and Muslims “terrorists.” Making large generalizations about large...
@Idaho
While it was an inconvenience for some passengers, it is ok for people to do that if they accept the consequences.
Also, don’t say that refugees and immigrants have made Sweden unsafe. There are plenty of Swedish nationals who have committed crimes and have been unlawful. Do not make a generalization about large groups of people. I get so frustrated when President Trump calls Mexican “rapists” and Muslims “terrorists.” Making large generalizations about large groups of people who have different backgrounds and different experiences creates prejudice and hate.
@SounderTID
You're comparing the lawful deportation of an illegal immigrant to the Holocaust?
Really?
Not brave, but immature. Don't interfere with common sense laws.
Yes. Make Sweden Great Again!!
“I doubt this will have an impact on whether or not the guy eventually gets deported, but perhaps more public displays like this will eventually lead to change, whatever form that may come in.”
The only change needed here is giving her a permanent spot on the no fly list. People have been banned from airlines for way less. This is white privilege at its finest. In the US she would have been dragged off the plane same as any Black, Asian, or Latino person.
Wow, lot of hyperbole in these comments...on all sides.
Well said @Scanditino! Something similar here in Germany where in some cases ethnic Germans are not punished as much as foreigners or even Germans of foreign descent. Just hate it that people can do this stuff and get away with it
She should be banned from boarding any aircraft.
She had boarded the olane - so the question is - does she gets here miles and points?
(Big support to her who stand up fo the Afganis)
Virtue-signaling should be outlawed on planes. She could have had her protest at the courthouse or any other number of places.
This is just histrionic hand-wringing about immigration policy and has no place on a plane.
How did she find out he was on board as whoever trump led her breached privacy. Each minute the flight was delayed cost Turkish money. Missed connections. Delay to rotation of the aircraft. Whatever her view she committed an offense and sd be prosecuted. She has no right to film others without their permission.
She keeps referring to someone being “ deportated” (sic). We don’t even know the background. He could be a criminal
Stupid girl
@Bob, she SHOULD have been forcibly removed. You cannot have a democracy without the rule of law. She was interfering with the operation of a commercial aircraft and she was obstructing a lawful deportation.
@HQ grow up.
I love this post. Whether you agree with her or not, how many of us would have the courage to stand up for what we believe in? We focus our attention on sometimes during some daring things to maximize points and value, part of the game, but she's doing it to save a person's life. How commendable! And how nice to see a young woman being confident.
Funny how, Ben, you're getting some heat for...
I love this post. Whether you agree with her or not, how many of us would have the courage to stand up for what we believe in? We focus our attention on sometimes during some daring things to maximize points and value, part of the game, but she's doing it to save a person's life. How commendable! And how nice to see a young woman being confident.
Funny how, Ben, you're getting some heat for posting this in a similar way she got heat for protesting. These times feel eerily similar to Berlin '39 with people so upset with other people standing up for what they think is right.
@Jackie, she has an agenda? Say it ain't so! An agenda is a set of actions planned to achieve a desired result. This morning, I awoke, fed the pets, showered, and drove to work, all in support of my agenda. Do you fault me? Can you show me an example of a human being without an agenda?
SWEDEN YES!
This is not the outlet to post on such topics.
I think the sexist and hateful remarks by Nick should be removed and that user should be banned. I respect people's right to their opinion, but hateful language attacking a person based on their gender should not be allowed.
Virtue signaling meets Stockholm (or, in this case, Gothenburg) syndrome.
I'm Swedish but neither white nor blond, and to me this is white privilege à la Scandinavian. Those preaching about self righteous Sweden being a "democracy" unlike America should be reminded that in Sweden, in places such as train stations /clubs/bars and many others, public or private, even private security are allowed to forcefully remove any individual who does not comply. This policy is widely applied for much less all the time, in particular when...
I'm Swedish but neither white nor blond, and to me this is white privilege à la Scandinavian. Those preaching about self righteous Sweden being a "democracy" unlike America should be reminded that in Sweden, in places such as train stations /clubs/bars and many others, public or private, even private security are allowed to forcefully remove any individual who does not comply. This policy is widely applied for much less all the time, in particular when non ethnic Swedes are involved. She should have been dragged out, while the deporteed kept in the plane, period. In a real "democracy", the law isn't applied selectively.
Sweden is burning and a dying country and this women showed the world why.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Good on you Lucky for reporting things like this. Well done.
What an annoying woman. Who is she to think the law is hers alone? So she is a judge now?
It’s one thing to engage in civil disobedience and put one’s own liberty at risk, but interfering with the free movement of over a hundred travelers is another matters entirely. She needs to suffer the full penalty of her illegal actions.
Haha, minus the "knocked out and dragged" which was probably hyperbole, @jackie was completely correct
This man has been through the system an was rejected to stay in the country. Sweden lets in a lot of refugees, and the country is on a downfall because of it. Sweden who was once a safe and quiet country is now violent, unsafe in certain areas (where there's a lot of immigrants), they've had multiple terrorist attacks the past years and some parts are even so bad that the police has lost control...
This man has been through the system an was rejected to stay in the country. Sweden lets in a lot of refugees, and the country is on a downfall because of it. Sweden who was once a safe and quiet country is now violent, unsafe in certain areas (where there's a lot of immigrants), they've had multiple terrorist attacks the past years and some parts are even so bad that the police has lost control over it.
The only thing she ended up doing was wasting Swedens money and resourses, and holding up a lot of people from their lives. They had to take him back to lock-up, they will have to spend more money on plane tickets and the officers will have to go back to board a new flight.
Sure. I support doing things to stand for justice. But this man was given justice when he was allowed to be given a chance to become a resident of Sweden. But when he gets rejected, then goes trough an appeal where he gets rejected again, he's most likely not safe to let stay in Sweden.
Is Jackie an ex-United employee?
I think it's possible to complain about what she did while still admiring her intent.
@ Nick: She may have been attention-seeking but at least it was for a cause rather than for herself.
She's definitely bold. Unfortunately I don't think it will make a difference for the man's fate.
Yasss!
We, Gothenburgers are strong and we stand for the right thing in life!
@ Andy 11235
It is not because you are with @Jackie on this one that Sweden will have manually taken this young girl out of the plane. I guess the habit of nordic countries, the rules and maybe the law may not authorised that.
Sweden is a welcoming country, so if they decided to deport him they probably had a strong reason. She should let the authorities handle it as they know more about this man than she does. She should compensate all the passengers and the airline for the delay, and if she can't afford it she should go to jail. There are other ways to protest without causing inconvenience to a couple of hundred innocent people.
Lucky as an avid flier, I’m surprised by your last sentence. Do you truly think intentional disruption of air transportation is a proper avenue for change? I hope you can reflect on this and adjust your article. It’s possible to be compassionate for the immigrant and still think this is not okay.
I applaud the moral compass, it would have played out different in my country, USA.
@ Bob
Democracies have rules. I have no doubt that the Swedish government followed the rules in having a deportation order issued. I know nothing about the case, so I really have no opinion on whether it was "just" that this man be deported. However, every democracy also has rules on where protests may occur to be protected as a right. There are many legal ways of protesting that do not involve interfering with...
@ Bob
Democracies have rules. I have no doubt that the Swedish government followed the rules in having a deportation order issued. I know nothing about the case, so I really have no opinion on whether it was "just" that this man be deported. However, every democracy also has rules on where protests may occur to be protected as a right. There are many legal ways of protesting that do not involve interfering with the operation of a commercial aircraft. I'm with @Jackie on this one.
She's a selfish attention whore. Case closed.
Is Jackie the new Debit?
I don't know anything about the Afghan man but I do know Sweden grants protection to a high number of asylum applicants compared to other European countries. This makes me wonder why the Afghan's asylum request was denied.
So Ms. Ersson is the judge and jury? She deserves to be fined, spend some time in jail, and banned for life from Turkish Airlines for her stunt.
“You do it once or twice, and if it doesn’t work we rent a private plane to send them back to Afghanistan, or wherever,” the spokesperson for Swedish Prison and Probation Service said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/swedish-student-plane-protest-stops-mans-deportation-afghanistan
So her protest was worthless, the law needs to be upheld.
This was on cnn. You don't watch news? I don't think this is the right way to do a policy change.
But coming to the usa have you noticed something the party that likes small government, opposes government tyranny will just listen and take orders from the government even about which facts to believe in, much less what opinions to have. Right wingers are hypocrites.
Trump supporters have shown themselves to be low...
This was on cnn. You don't watch news? I don't think this is the right way to do a policy change.
But coming to the usa have you noticed something the party that likes small government, opposes government tyranny will just listen and take orders from the government even about which facts to believe in, much less what opinions to have. Right wingers are hypocrites.
Trump supporters have shown themselves to be low IQ, sub human vermin infesting our great nation and should be exterminated.
Oh by the way, all ideas used by their leader, but if I use them they will have a problem.
Ben, a sarcastic "thanks" for giving us only one side of a story so that it fits you left-wing political agenda. I expected more from you. Maybe you should stick to travel reports!
@ Jackie
In a democracy like Sweden, this cannot happen Jackie.
She needs to be knocked out and dragged off the plane feet first. She has an agenda and she can protest, but there is no reason to delay the flight for every other passenger.