A Facebook user shares a description and video of what she witnessed today on Southwest Airlines flight 1683 from Chicago Midway to Atlanta. This incident caused a 46 minute delay on departure, though the flight only landed 26 minutes late.
Here’s how the Facebook user describes what happened:
#southwest #shame #on #you #southwest #airlines kicked a man off the plane with his two year old daughter because she was afraid and not sitting in her own seat.. he asked the lady for a minute to calm her down she walked away and called people to remove him. The baby was already calm by now and sitting in her own seat. Captain then came over intercom to say we will be going back to the gate to handle a customer service issue. They then told me stop filming and this issue did not involve me, and that me and another woman who spoke up will be the next off he plane. The flight attendant then came to tell me be quiet stop talking ( to the person next to me ) no one around me wants to hear about the situation. #Flight1683 #MDW to #ATL ABC 7 Chicago NBC Chicago Southwest Airlines #Michelle was the flight attendant
Here’s the video of the incident:
It would appear that the flight was taxiing out, and that the two year old wasn’t sitting in her seat properly because she was scared. The father just asked for a minute and didn’t seem to have an attitude. However, because the toddler wouldn’t be seated properly right away, the flight attendant called the captain, and the plane returned to the gate so the man and his daughter could be removed. Even though the daughter was quietly sitting there when they got back to the gate, they still kicked her off, because “the decision has been made.”
I understand that flight attendants need to enforce FAA regulations, and that the daughter needed to be in her seat. I also understand that at a busy airport you’re potentially holding up other planes if you get out of sequence and delay the flight until someone is seated (though returning to the gate also delays a flight).
However, she’s also two years old. If she was scared to fly on this flight, can you imagine how scared she’ll be next time, after she was kicked off a plane once?
So I get the flight attendant was technically trying to enforce the rules, but this seems to me like a case that should have been handled differently, at least based on what we know. As humans we have to show more kindness and compassion, and that even applies in situations like this, in my opinion. Assuming the father wasn’t being aggressive and argumentative, I just feel like it shouldn’t have ended this way. The father tells the gate agent that the flight attendant was yelling at his baby and he was trying to calm her.
Here’s how Southwest describes their mission:
“The mission of Southwest Airlines is dedication to the highest quality of Customer Service delivered with a sense of warmth, friendliness, individual pride, and Company Spirit.”
I don’t feel like the flight attendant here embodies that. Actually, she seems to have quite an attitude, especially as she tells the passenger filming to mind her own business because “this has nothing to do with you.”
What do you make of this situation?
(Tip of the hat to Supicha)
Not having watched the video, I can’t speak to the attitude or behaviour of the FA.
(In my opinion, the majority of today’s FAs have very poor skills in the art of customer service)
but I can say this...
If the child was over 2 yrs old and was NOT belted in a seat at the moment that the FA was required to signal an all clear to the captain, the outcome...
Not having watched the video, I can’t speak to the attitude or behaviour of the FA.
(In my opinion, the majority of today’s FAs have very poor skills in the art of customer service)
but I can say this...
If the child was over 2 yrs old and was NOT belted in a seat at the moment that the FA was required to signal an all clear to the captain, the outcome was then being determined by FAA regulations and not the FA. Period. End of story.
No FA wants to risk running afoul of FAA
safety rules.
Having said that....I call BS on the entire issue when, if the child had instead been just shy of her 2nd birthday, she would have been allowed to be held on her father’s lap during takeoff and landing whithout anyone batting an eyelash.
It’s an absolutely ridiculous rule but it is there, and must be obeyed by any FA who wants to remain employed.
Let’s all get our panties unbunched now, eh?
Here is what I think. There are numerous comments on rules (which most of you commenting on them don't even understand) and who is to blame the parent or the Airlines. Obvious by the video that the Flight Attendant had no-wiggle-room or kindness or understanding but all the power and that is a shame on her. So the child was upset for a moment it happens and just exercise a little patience even if you...
Here is what I think. There are numerous comments on rules (which most of you commenting on them don't even understand) and who is to blame the parent or the Airlines. Obvious by the video that the Flight Attendant had no-wiggle-room or kindness or understanding but all the power and that is a shame on her. So the child was upset for a moment it happens and just exercise a little patience even if you don't want to. Once the Flight Attendant returned with her "enforcer" and the child was calm that should have been the end of the entire situation. Bad judgement on the Flight Attendant, the enforcer, and the Pilot (who is never REALLY in control of much). For those of you wanting them removed (Jason Texas) you obviously do not have children and probably never should but for all of you, please feel free to remove you screaming ass kid from the movie theater, the restaurant, any and all waiting rooms, church, and any other place where NO ONE WANTS TO LISTEN TO YOUR OUT OF CONTROL CHILD. Patience, respect, understanding, and helpfulness might go a long way in a less than perfect situation.
I have to believe the bigger issue here is just how the parent handled the situation. Sure, a 2 year old could act out and stand up in her seat. How did the parent react? (I don't know, I wasn't there.) I've been at enough restaurants where kids are running around, screaming, like they were in a playground, while the parents sit, oblivious. The FAA requires all passengers be seated and belted. I don't know...
I have to believe the bigger issue here is just how the parent handled the situation. Sure, a 2 year old could act out and stand up in her seat. How did the parent react? (I don't know, I wasn't there.) I've been at enough restaurants where kids are running around, screaming, like they were in a playground, while the parents sit, oblivious. The FAA requires all passengers be seated and belted. I don't know how much discussion or how many times the flight attendant had to tell the parent to comply with her instructions. I have to believe it was more than once or that the flight attendant had reason to believe that the situation wasn't going to improve. As an airline captain myself, I support my flight crew. I've also learned that if a situation isn't good on the ground, it's not going to get better in the air, when you and your problem are locked in an aluminum tube at 37,000 feet. You think that going back to the gate is bad? Try diverting to another airport. I'm sure there is more to this story than a blogger's interpretation of a passenger's video which probably didn't document behavior leading up to the deciding event.
@Peggy,
I've read many posts for which I merely blow them off. But your post takes first place from my view. Your belligerent outlook is offensive. I'd happily cooperate to be escorted off any of your flights. Simply put, I expect better service and respect as a passenger.
You were no more present in this situation than others, so you hardly have a right to talk as an eye witness. You can assume...
@Peggy,
I've read many posts for which I merely blow them off. But your post takes first place from my view. Your belligerent outlook is offensive. I'd happily cooperate to be escorted off any of your flights. Simply put, I expect better service and respect as a passenger.
You were no more present in this situation than others, so you hardly have a right to talk as an eye witness. You can assume and you can be entitled to your own opinions, but you are far from entitled to your own facts.
I hardly would characterize the flight crew as first-responders. They are no more heroic than the countless passengers and other citizens that we're killed or hurt 9/11. I refuse to put them any higher as you seem to attempt to do.
At 525-550 mph I hardly think a seatbelt is there for speed or impact safety at that rate. I agree and understand why seatbelts exist but I'd suggest a better analogy.
But the video recording comment....wow... talk about incorrect information. It's hardly illegal. It may be a breach of contract (with the airline) but recording a public event or place from the view of public is better characterized (in most cases) as an absolute right. Failing to obey airline policy, if such exists, of this nature is not illegal. The federal government has no legislative / statutory law regarding such actions. However, there are some laws regarding audio recording, particularly when done covertly. So far it appears the mobile phone is hardly covert.
I'm sure you have been employed in the industry a long time. How that time has impacted you I do not fully know. But, I feel I deserve better.
You people have ZERO clue as to what the FAA allows us to do. Are you telling me you strap your two year old into a seatbelt going 30 MPzh but not in a plane going 525 MPH.? Are you that daft? WHO is the parebt here? Take charge, the FA wass doing her job, and just so you know if you took a video of her NOT telling the father to strap her child...
You people have ZERO clue as to what the FAA allows us to do. Are you telling me you strap your two year old into a seatbelt going 30 MPzh but not in a plane going 525 MPH.? Are you that daft? WHO is the parebt here? Take charge, the FA wass doing her job, and just so you know if you took a video of her NOT telling the father to strap her child in??? Guess what she gets a huge fine from the FAA and possible suspension. We don’t go thru 6 weeks of trading to serve you a GD Coke, we go to save your life in an emergency situation, or a medical emergency ! How the hell would YOU like to be video taped while you are doing YOUR job??? And BTW this Hooters Hooker forgot to tape the ENTIRE scene where the father was screaming! The child over two MUST be in a seat for SAFETY reasons, not because the flight crew is trying to act like GOD. I think maybe you all might want to remember 911 where THE FLIGHT CREW were the FIRST responders who all lost their lives. Get with it you all have no idea what you are talking about, and I hope I am working a flight and you get fined for illegally video taping a flight crew.
This is such a fun site. Why are the comments so nasty?
I can't stand blogging dopes that hack out nonsense about these types of airline situations. I mean, what a classic example of an idiotic paragraph here: "However, she’s also two years old. If she was scared to fly on this flight, can you imagine how scared she’ll be next time, after she was kicked off a plane once?" ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?
First, it's not the responsibility of an airline to play the role...
I can't stand blogging dopes that hack out nonsense about these types of airline situations. I mean, what a classic example of an idiotic paragraph here: "However, she’s also two years old. If she was scared to fly on this flight, can you imagine how scared she’ll be next time, after she was kicked off a plane once?" ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?
First, it's not the responsibility of an airline to play the role of a psychiatrist. Second, she's TWO. She has the long-term memory of a hummingbird, she doesn't remember anything. Third, these people are the type of people that fly once every 10 years, if that. These aren't international business people chained to a plane. Fourth, there are other methods of transportation. Next time, feel free to use them. Fifth, there are other passengers on that flight and the flight has a schedule. That and passenger safety are the only priorities. Sixth, federal regulations trump everything. You know that, so why hack out this stupidity?
God, I hate bloggers.
A good parent would have slapped some sense into that kid
Again you do not see the beginning of the event. 2 yr olds include those a day a way from thier 3rd birthday. Children 2 yrs old and up must be seated and belted in. When a plane pulls away from the gate and begins its taxi the clock begins. Time is of the utmost importance, not just for passengers and thier connections but for airspace. Airspace for takeoff and landings. The video shows the...
Again you do not see the beginning of the event. 2 yr olds include those a day a way from thier 3rd birthday. Children 2 yrs old and up must be seated and belted in. When a plane pulls away from the gate and begins its taxi the clock begins. Time is of the utmost importance, not just for passengers and thier connections but for airspace. Airspace for takeoff and landings. The video shows the very end of the event not what lead up to it. If the minute lead to 10 or longer and the passenger who videoed and had the comments missed her connection because of the child and the delay, she would be pissed and singing a different tune.
I had the same experience on an European carrier (Swiss). My 2yo child was crying and didn't want to stay on his seat. The FA came, brought a small toy and a pillow so the child could stay close to me even if attached to his seat and everything went smoothly.
Parents need to learn how to control their kids - isn’t up to society to keep up with unruly children in public areas. A two year old who has a trusting loving relationship with parents and isn’t spoiled knows exactly how to behave .
Rules are not made by the airlines; they are made by the Federal Aviation Administration. Crash statistics show that a child held in the lap of a parent could be injured or killed if something happened. Would you let your child ride in your lap in the front seat of a car? If so, you deserve to be held as endangering the child.
When I was a FA for a large regional carrier I did not bend rules. Once the cabin has been declared secured the cockpit goes into what is called "sterile cockpit" and remains that way until the aircraft reaches 10 thousand feet. If I needed to break sterile cockpit by informing the flight deck crew that someone was out of their seat, or a child was running amok, we typically would go back to the...
When I was a FA for a large regional carrier I did not bend rules. Once the cabin has been declared secured the cockpit goes into what is called "sterile cockpit" and remains that way until the aircraft reaches 10 thousand feet. If I needed to break sterile cockpit by informing the flight deck crew that someone was out of their seat, or a child was running amok, we typically would go back to the gate and start over if on the ground. I'm not sure exactly what the entire situation here was, but ultimately it is up to the captain on what to do, if he/she didn't feel comfortable with flying with whatever happened here then its done.
I went on a SW last year on a 6:00 flight. The ENTIRE flight this child was screaming. It was 2 hours of non-stop screaming, funny nothing happened to that child or their family.
You people that say byebye,SAD, HEARTLESS, attendant could have sat with the family ,holding that baby so she was not so scared ,bet if it was you ,it would all be different .my granddaughter was only 2 yr old went on flight and I had to buckle her with me ..oh and you would have thought that we ask for gold, the attendant was very cold ,an took her good Ole time getting a cover...
You people that say byebye,SAD, HEARTLESS, attendant could have sat with the family ,holding that baby so she was not so scared ,bet if it was you ,it would all be different .my granddaughter was only 2 yr old went on flight and I had to buckle her with me ..oh and you would have thought that we ask for gold, the attendant was very cold ,an took her good Ole time getting a cover to put on a sleeping baby ,uh yes ms.byebye we brought our baby blanket however princess pie was holding her silky ,,yes BABY. I will never travel southwest this year to Disney 15 of our family will take different airline
Flying is a privilege..... not a right. Please read the small print next time you purchase a ticket. Work ONE day as flight crew then re-think any of those negative responses. If you don't like ( or can't abide by ) the rules of flying, by ALL means take a car, bus or train or better yet walk. Bubbye!
That is total BS. Obviously, she never had children herself. Shame on you Southwest!
I wasn't there, and we don't know everything that happened. It seems to me that taking the plane back to the gate to unload a child and parent is a draconian step-one that may have caused other pax to miss their connections. Yes, it's dangerous and against the rules for a child to be standing during taxi, BUT rational people would weigh spending a few minutes talking calmly to the child vs. disrupting every passenger's...
I wasn't there, and we don't know everything that happened. It seems to me that taking the plane back to the gate to unload a child and parent is a draconian step-one that may have caused other pax to miss their connections. Yes, it's dangerous and against the rules for a child to be standing during taxi, BUT rational people would weigh spending a few minutes talking calmly to the child vs. disrupting every passenger's trip with a 30+ minute delay. I'm frightened by US flight attendants. I was kicked off a plane a few years ago because I asked (somewhat loudly), "why are we sitting on the tarmac for one and a half hours?" This crap just doesn't happen on Singapore, Iberia, or any other non-US carrier. I think these FA's have a Second Amendment mentality,"you'd better do what I say(even if it is stoopid and defies logic) or I'll take care of you." Yes, "rules are rules," but as compassionate humans, we have the discretion and obligation use the context surrounding them and make an intelligent decision.
I see fault on both sides. Kid has to sit in seat. Period. But the FAs should have been nicer about it even if they had to remove the family. And to threaten to offload those women because they were filming and to order them to stop talking? If true, they need to be fired. Last I looked this was a free country wherein you could talk to your seatmate if both were agreeable without the permission of FAs or pilots.
People seem to forget its about safety. No one I know would allow a child to be out of there car seat while operating a vehicle, well a plane is no different. If the captain slammed on brakes and the child was to get hurt, people blame the flight attendant for not enforcing FAA regulations. Do you think a police officer would have given you the same courtesy. Flight attendant was only doing her job
So, no "kicking" involved at all. Just a melodramatic and misleading headline.
Come on, this blog is turning into the "Daily Mail". (That's not a compliment, by the way.)
To summarise: A passenger is directed to leave an aircraft and, as we already know, the Captain has the ultimate authority to order this. A very brief excerpt of an unauthorised video recording should not be put into the public domain in an attempt to 1)...
So, no "kicking" involved at all. Just a melodramatic and misleading headline.
Come on, this blog is turning into the "Daily Mail". (That's not a compliment, by the way.)
To summarise: A passenger is directed to leave an aircraft and, as we already know, the Captain has the ultimate authority to order this. A very brief excerpt of an unauthorised video recording should not be put into the public domain in an attempt to 1) get clicks for a blog and b) encourage the general public to form an opinion on the basis of heavily edited, highly selective information.
I enjoy (most of) the air travel reports on this site but gossip-column, "tabloid" style reporting will turn me off completely.
So when a child doesn't want to be secured in a vehicle it is ok and off you go.
Flight Attendants don’t get to make the rules, rather they are there to enforce them. What part of FEDERAL REGULATION is difficult for some of you to understand? This is all about safety and many of you are upset that people, behaving badly, were held accountable. Please get over your entitled selves and understand this woman was DOING HER JOB!!! And as far as video taping goes, it states very clearly, in writing, that you can’t do that either!
Good for Southwest. Simple solution - don't fly with scared children that young. Why put them through the stress of the situation? Not fair to the child and definitely not fair to all other passengers who have to hear the crying and carrying on. Nothing against the child - she was scared. The selfish parent is the one who is wrong here for taking a child that young on a plane.
There must be a Pat Benatar comeback opportunity here:
LUV is a battlefield...
Understand rules are rules, anyone not in their “ticketed” seat could be a weight and balance issue.....but FAA stating it’s safe and appropriate for a 1y11 month old to be in parents arms, regardless of weight, yet the day they turn 2 it becomes a “belted in their own seat” or its a a return to gate situation for non-compliance defies common sense and is probably any real safety study. I always assumed he 2...
Understand rules are rules, anyone not in their “ticketed” seat could be a weight and balance issue.....but FAA stating it’s safe and appropriate for a 1y11 month old to be in parents arms, regardless of weight, yet the day they turn 2 it becomes a “belted in their own seat” or its a a return to gate situation for non-compliance defies common sense and is probably any real safety study. I always assumed he 2 years olds need their own seat was a revenue thing for the airlines as opposed to safety testing which generally is based on weight more than age.
If it were about safety, I would think the FAA would mandate the CARES seat harness, require airline approved car seats, or end the arbitrary 2 years old makes you an adult who MUST be in your own seat rule.
I’ve always wondered what the real “problem” the rule is there to fix.....
cant wait till airlines start offering KID FREE flights!
Why should all the hundred or so other passengers have to be delayed because one child won't sit down. There are too many parents who don't know how to parent and make everyone else suffer for it.
If you can't control your child you shouldn't bring them on an airplane.
Wow some of you in this post are such selfish socialpaths who obviously have no empathy or decency, obviously the only thing that matters to you is how to get maximum value on your next award business seat.
Sorry guys, this is a security issue. Also toddlers have to sit in their seat while taxing. Period. If your toddler is unable to do this you are unable to travel by plane. Please take a car then. If it is to far it is your issue. Then you neet to stay where you are.
You cannot seriously take a whole plane into account because your toddler cannot behave. If a passenger does not...
Sorry guys, this is a security issue. Also toddlers have to sit in their seat while taxing. Period. If your toddler is unable to do this you are unable to travel by plane. Please take a car then. If it is to far it is your issue. Then you neet to stay where you are.
You cannot seriously take a whole plane into account because your toddler cannot behave. If a passenger does not accecpt the rules while taxing it is probable that she will not accept the rules for the entire fligtht. Sorry, but there are not exepctions for toddlers.
Don’t judge until you’ve done the job. The child should have been buckled in their seat before the plane pushed. It’s not negotiable!
The flight attendants do not make this decision. They are required to notify the captain if the cabin is not secure for take off. The captain is the final authority on the aircraft. The flight attendants were doing their jobs correctly. If you don't like a rule, feel free to write to the FAA to get it changed. If that child had gotten injured, I bet you all old have blamed the airline?
I like that airlines getting tougher. I'm tired of people pushing back or abusing every rule and regulation. From emotional support animals, feet up on seats, crazy kids, 3 huge bags as carry-ons ("well one is a personal item and the other is a backpack") . Many expect the world to accommodate or wait for them. Lets also be honest, how many times have you heard parents say "it will just be a second" when...
I like that airlines getting tougher. I'm tired of people pushing back or abusing every rule and regulation. From emotional support animals, feet up on seats, crazy kids, 3 huge bags as carry-ons ("well one is a personal item and the other is a backpack") . Many expect the world to accommodate or wait for them. Lets also be honest, how many times have you heard parents say "it will just be a second" when in reality it lasts more than 15 minutes. Also since when did people, especially kids have a choice on behaving and following safety rules?
Aww, such compassionate people, are they compassionate enough to pay the FAA fines for the flight attendant/airline for being out of compliance? No? Then sit down and shut up!
Kudos to southwest---if americans cannot keep their kids quiet and respectful, then off ya go. It's likely due to endless phone diddling, screen starring addictions (electronic cocaine), ADHD from the american lifestyle, poor quality food, and inattentive/non emotionally present "parents"
I’ve only flew southwest once, and their FAs seem to be fine. If the airline wasn’t named in the title I would have thought, “let me guess, united?” And jasontexas, I think your opinion is a bit harsh as kids are simply just kids, especially this one who is only 2.
They had been cleared for departure and the child would not sit in the seat. Everyone has to be in a seat belt. Period. The passenger had been asked multiple times and the father yelled at the flight attendant and wouldn't comply. In this situation, you belt the child in and let them scream. I'm sorry, there is no other choice. You can pull them into your lap and comfort once the plane is in...
They had been cleared for departure and the child would not sit in the seat. Everyone has to be in a seat belt. Period. The passenger had been asked multiple times and the father yelled at the flight attendant and wouldn't comply. In this situation, you belt the child in and let them scream. I'm sorry, there is no other choice. You can pull them into your lap and comfort once the plane is in the air. I think car seats are the best idea for most children because then they understand they have to sit them. When a plane has been cleared, other planes behind them are waiting to take off as well. Airlines are put under tremendous pressure to keep planes on time. It's interesting that the child was seated and the father talking calmly once he realized they were taking him off. Then it's all about compliance but it's too late.
Southwest trains their people better than this. This stewardess was on a power trip and should be reprimanded
At least they didn't put the toddler in the overhead!
@ Liz Stein the fundamental problem with the whole "FAs are only there for your safety" is that (1) you usually DO get better service on an LCC and (2) your employer is in business because of the people in F/C who pay to have more than just a safe flight.
Sure, rules are there for safety, but there would have been no safety issue if the parent were given a minute to calm the...
@ Liz Stein the fundamental problem with the whole "FAs are only there for your safety" is that (1) you usually DO get better service on an LCC and (2) your employer is in business because of the people in F/C who pay to have more than just a safe flight.
Sure, rules are there for safety, but there would have been no safety issue if the parent were given a minute to calm the kid down. The bottom line is that common sense seems sorely lacking among too many bad apples of the traveling public and the airline staff.
Americans may be absurdly litigious, but we are not mindless cattle happy to be meekly corralled into place. So many of these issues we've seen between FAs/GAs and customers would have been avoided if instead of relying on their absolute authority, the reasons behind a command were explained: "I'm afraid I can't give you a minute to quiet your child because if there is an injury you would sue me" or "If there is an emergency evacuation the space by your feet must be clear; the pet carrier must be fully under the seat in front of you or we cannot push back"
I wasn't there so my comments are my opinions of kids, parents and life.
1. My parents were the type that didn't take us places until we were old enough to behave. Whether that was movies, travel, etc.
2. Too many parents take kids and do things with kids because they want to continue living their lives as if they didn't have kids. Sorry but things change with kids and you have to modify...
I wasn't there so my comments are my opinions of kids, parents and life.
1. My parents were the type that didn't take us places until we were old enough to behave. Whether that was movies, travel, etc.
2. Too many parents take kids and do things with kids because they want to continue living their lives as if they didn't have kids. Sorry but things change with kids and you have to modify your life style. And I'm definitely referring to the parents (yeah, I've seen this personally) who have gone to movies with an infant. Really? Or taking them to expensive restaurants. Get a baby sitter or stay home. Or the ones taking kids way too young to Disney. Few, if any, people have memories going back to 3, 4, 5. Everyone would be happier once they are of age to enjoy it.
3. In this case I'm leaning towards the kid/parent but I wasn't there. I'd be happier if they removed the screaming kids and the ones kicking the back of my seat. A family once got on a Southwest flight very late and there were not seats for the 5 of them so the father sat with the boy (he seemed to have some medical issue) but the mother and the two young girls sat separately, one sat between myself and another guy (no one I knew) and I was thinking "ugh, this is going to suck". Instead she was very good. We helped her when snacks were given out (this was a long time ago) and the flight was fine. Obviously some parents don't think their kids do any wrong and wrong discipline them nowadays.
This comments section is practically a parade of sociopaths who are unable to consider the needs or feelings of anyone other than themselves. I hope that you Shkreli wannabes get the mental help that so many of you desperately need.
For all you reatrds blaming the parents or the toddler, GTFO. The stupidity in these comments is surpassed only by the stupidity of the American President.
LH DOESN'T throw of child => Gets a sh**storm
WN THROWS the child out => Gets a sh**storm
Oh, and can we get to flying and reviews. If I wanted TMZ, then I'd be reading TMZ
i was on a flight last night AA CUN-DFW. The mother next to me, had a 2 year old. I don't think the 2 year old sat in her seat (forget buckling) for more than 10 minutes from the time we boarded to deplaned. That includes takeoff and landing, and includes reaching over and touching me a few times.
I get it since i have (and was traveling with my 6 and 9 year olds. I remember how it was a few years ago. Very poor take by this FA. Poor job by WN..
When I flew with my 2 year old granddaughter, who behaved very bad, AA FA gave the extention belt and asked me to take her in my lap.
On a southwest flight from atl to oak, me and my spouse took our toddler to the restrooms for a diaper change. The restrooms were near the cockpit and i was standing out with fresh clothes and diapers while my spouse was inside cleaning up. The flight attendant told us that i cannot stand there even to assist. Southwest has never been family friendly.
Some of the more idiotic commenters here must have skipped the ages 2-5 or alternatively have been just perfect little angels, afraid of nothing and self-assured in every circumstance. Next one of them will suggest slipping the kid a Xanax.
Rules are one thing but often common sense and decency are another. Miserable fail for Southwest , demonstrating once again that the power freaks and petty tyrants are in control.
Last year my 2 years old son did the same on LH flights from Italy to Ireland, the FA's asked us to let him seat in his own seat and let us take time to deal with our kid. It happens a lot of times and when you are dealing with toddlers you can't expect to react (I said react not behave) properly. Shame of Southwest.
Whether this is relevant news or an attempt to increase site revenue is non important.
Today’s society is extremely prejudiced, self-entitled, & all knowing in everyone’s business about everything.
Unless you have been employed as a Flight Attendant and completed the required FAA training, you have no truthful factfula information to impart only speculation and hearsay.
The USA is very litigious and for some that is their sole mission daily. These are unscrupulous persons generally...
Whether this is relevant news or an attempt to increase site revenue is non important.
Today’s society is extremely prejudiced, self-entitled, & all knowing in everyone’s business about everything.
Unless you have been employed as a Flight Attendant and completed the required FAA training, you have no truthful factfula information to impart only speculation and hearsay.
The USA is very litigious and for some that is their sole mission daily. These are unscrupulous persons generally with no morals.
The underling question is why anyone would want to travel 30,000 feet in the air whereby your life could be over in a nanosecond if ruled are not followed. On any aircraft there is NO room for error. Each flight must be in precision beginning to end. Add in know-it-all passengers, and once a year fliers, it can become dangerous.
Would you challenge the TSA upon arrival at any airport and not follow their rules?
Would you argue with an immigration or customs officer upon arrival back into the USA from abroad?
Why do people feel they can intimidate any airline staff member post 9/11 is insane.
We purchase tickets for quick travel versus schlepping in a car, bus, or by rail. It’s quicker, easier, and faster.
Next time your onboard a flight and see any passenger giving a crew member aka as a flight attendant a hard time about compliance, try assisting instread of going on social media to rant or start filming. The life you save may just be your own.
In case you did not know, flight attendants are on the aircrafts for safety period as required by the FAA. The customer service or hospitality is an added benefit and not a requirement. This is indicated by the level of service you pay for to travel. Low cost carriers do not have the same level of customer service, hospitality, or amenities. If your traveling coach, get on, take a seat, follow the rules, take a nap, read or whatever. You will be at your destination in no time unfazed.
Kick them off. They were holding up flow control at the entire airport. They don't have a minute to calm the kid.
At this point, i started to think those FA that work US based airlines are embodiment of how people in USwould treat you.
Rules are rules.
Ask David Dao.
Total jerks I hope they sue and win I would have never gotten off
Btw imo it is understandable that they were still asked to deplete when the plane reached the gate even though the child was calm at that time. Did the captain really want to risk having the child throw a fit again if they let them stay on board and be forced to return a second time? It was a judgement call.
Been there. We almost got kicked off except plane hadn't left gate yet. Fa had a bad attitude. That said they have to enforce the rules but such things if handled poorly can turn into a customer service and possibly even a pr headache. I didn't watch the video and we don't have the full context of the situation but it is not a good look for the fa to be threatening to kick off...
Been there. We almost got kicked off except plane hadn't left gate yet. Fa had a bad attitude. That said they have to enforce the rules but such things if handled poorly can turn into a customer service and possibly even a pr headache. I didn't watch the video and we don't have the full context of the situation but it is not a good look for the fa to be threatening to kick off other passengers for merely speaking up or taking a video. The drawback of giving an fa so much authority is that you never know when one will go defcon 1 and turn a minor incident into a full scale crisis. Next thing you know people are being tazed and dragged off the plane
Why are US carriers so harsh. I am from India and here even a lcc like indigo remain in their limits
@Abdülhamid, Corey Sacken, etc...
If you don’t like certain comments don’t read the fucking comments ;)
And this is why we always fly first class with our toddlers. Service in economy is pathetic.
Why are people so bitter about Lucky posting this. A lot of people who view this site have kids. I have a 3 year old personally.
If you don't like the article don't click the fucking link.
Southwest should definitely reprimand this woman, next offense automatic termination.
I've been on planes where the baby cried the entire flight and whailed and im pretty sure gave 50 people strokes. no word from a FA. but this is what causes a plane to abort a taxi and return to the gate?
It's silly, ridiculous and embarrassing to say that this doesn't belong on Ben's blog. The blog is read by people who like the contents, and the contents is what Ben & Co. write here. I don't see any fascist enforcers forcing anyone to read it (I guess they all work as FA's these days :) ).
Ever recall K-Mart Tag line?
"FOR THE PRICE YOU PAY,
QUALITY YOU GET"
Is anyone here old enough to remember what air travel was like ~30 years ago? Airline staff were there to serve the customers, not their own egos. Customers also were respectful of staff AND their fellow passengers.
Don't get me wrong, I still have plenty of memories of sleeping on the floor of the old JFK international terminal due to IRROPs, but overall the experience was better. The aircraft might not have been as...
Is anyone here old enough to remember what air travel was like ~30 years ago? Airline staff were there to serve the customers, not their own egos. Customers also were respectful of staff AND their fellow passengers.
Don't get me wrong, I still have plenty of memories of sleeping on the floor of the old JFK international terminal due to IRROPs, but overall the experience was better. The aircraft might not have been as luxurious, but the service was superior and genuine.
Not passing judgement either way on this story -- camera wasn't rolling for the whole event. And it's Southwest. Different clientele, different type of FA than the traditional US3 crowd.
It was a real problem that your typical lap belt across a 2 year old, is no kind of barrier at all to them simply standing up. We used a CARES harness at that age. It simulates a car seat 5-point harness well enough, that kids will feel "strapped in" and won't get up. We travelled with our kids multiple times per year from birth, but even so there were problems we had to work through and plan ahead very carefully for.
Somebody needs to push back over situations like this. Flight crew authority is not absolute - they just want you to think it is. So long as you don't assault a flight crew member (interfere with their duties), simply not obeying by refusing to get off appears to be at worst an FAA civil penalty, and possibly (probably) a ban from the airline. And I am projecting on facts like these here that no FAA...
Somebody needs to push back over situations like this. Flight crew authority is not absolute - they just want you to think it is. So long as you don't assault a flight crew member (interfere with their duties), simply not obeying by refusing to get off appears to be at worst an FAA civil penalty, and possibly (probably) a ban from the airline. And I am projecting on facts like these here that no FAA administrative law judge would uphold much if any of a penalty, since the crew was unreasonable. So put it to the captain: you can take a further delay to go ask law enforcement to enforce a private contract, and end up a YouTube star, or, just go fly the plane and we'll all forget about it. I wouldn't expect to keep my points balance though...
If the 2 year old was 1 year and 11 months old then the child would be able to sit on her father's lap even without a "child seat belt". No common sense on US airlines anymore. Just bend the rule, give the child a smile and take off.
Stories like this are useful to me as the father of 2 toddlers... who will be flying Southwest in 2 weeks.
Lucky,
Thank you for sharing the story and your opinion on this incident.
Trip reports are great but I feel stories like these show your readers who you really are and I really appreciate it.
My opinion might be biased , as I am a father of a toddler. Unfortunately, the video didn't include the first part of the incident so I couldn't judge the reaction of the crew members. However, I do not understand...
Lucky,
Thank you for sharing the story and your opinion on this incident.
Trip reports are great but I feel stories like these show your readers who you really are and I really appreciate it.
My opinion might be biased , as I am a father of a toddler. Unfortunately, the video didn't include the first part of the incident so I couldn't judge the reaction of the crew members. However, I do not understand why the father and daughter were still asked to deplane at the end even though the daughter seemed calm and seated.
In any event, I hope to see more compassion from the crew members and calmness from the passengers during these difficult times.
The flight attendant could've just brought over a snack to calm the kid. Kids bug out and flight attendants deal with it all the time. Kicking families off the plane is terrible precedent.
Good riddance.
Train your child or get kicked out.
Good work Southwest.
First I must agree that this really does not belong on this site in my opinion. It’s really a non- story and minor event.
With that said we have no idea what was going on prior to this. If the toddler refused to be seated and was crying the plane is legally bound not to take off. By that point they committed to turn back. Who cares if she was quiet at that point?...
First I must agree that this really does not belong on this site in my opinion. It’s really a non- story and minor event.
With that said we have no idea what was going on prior to this. If the toddler refused to be seated and was crying the plane is legally bound not to take off. By that point they committed to turn back. Who cares if she was quiet at that point? She may have freaked out again moments later. There are far too many variables here with far too little information to make any judgement so don’t post this stuff. If it’s a real story with real facts then great. Otherwise it’s gossip and uninteresting gossip to boot.
This story would be different if the child wasn’t sitting in her seat, didn’t have a seatbelt on and the plane had to make an abrupt stop causing her to hit her head on the seat in front of her, potentially hurting her. The rules are in place for a reason and while it may seem uncompassionate to kick them off, it could have potentially ended much worse for them.
Trip reports please
Did I hear body cams?
Yes they are next (my prediction). The real question is who ... passengers or crew?
It's crossed my mind!
@nobody in particular
Because stuff like this gets lots of comments and page views which gets the site good money via ad revenues? And maybe an occasional mention and link in mainstream media?
Granted, all of it put together does show us how off the rails some US flight attendants can be. But doling out a few trip reports for the rest of us would be nice...
I'd like to see the before video.That said I've been around plenty of unruly kids on planes and it appears a lot worse that this.I'm sorry to hear this was SWA as it usually happens on United.
WOW! Surely the airline must ask questions of the crew about why they lost thousands of dollars over something like this. I've seem heaps of kids squirming, screaming, crying prior to takeoff and the plane has never been turned around. Of course, I don't live in the US...
Would be interesting to know if this sort of thing was as prevalent prior to people being able to record incidents on their phones. Or is it a fairly new phenomenon.
Another case whereby the FA is given too much power and is happy to flaunt it, just because she can, and even when passengers note she is wrong, speak out against her, they could not right the situation; instead the FA used her powers to further threaten those that questioned her authority.
No ONE Cares!!!!! Stop blogging this bogus crap....
Terrible flight attendants obviously with no brains
A two year old isn't going to remember this the next time they fly. If her dad bought her a snack in the terminal she probably had an enjoyable experience overall...
There's still a lot of "Ifs" here... so, to that end, I'm not sure where "blame" if you will, is or should be placed.... yes, these days it's easy and popular to blame the airline... and that MAY be the case .... I before jumping on the bandwagon, I think facts matter.
Lucky correctly state essentially what federal law says... Id also note that (as I read it) there is no language in this statue...
There's still a lot of "Ifs" here... so, to that end, I'm not sure where "blame" if you will, is or should be placed.... yes, these days it's easy and popular to blame the airline... and that MAY be the case .... I before jumping on the bandwagon, I think facts matter.
Lucky correctly state essentially what federal law says... Id also note that (as I read it) there is no language in this statue (FAR 121.317) which grants discretion to the crew under which situations 121.317 applies.
I do also think that HOW things are dealt with is critical, but I think that can't be obstructed by the law itself.
Optically kicking a child off the plane is bad -- as an airline, you'll never "win" in the court of public opinion by doing this, regardless if such action is (or worse, is not) supported by law.. but I think if that's what law says/requires, then that's what it is. However, given the negative impact on others, BEFORE removal happens, I want to be sure that ALL the relevant facts are collected, known and balanced, to the extent situationally possible.
there are bad eggs everywhere
US flight attendants on power trip. You will not see this on other airlines especially not to this extent and degree. It is always scary to be on an U.S. airlines, because you never know when flight attendant go rogue.
At least they aren’t killing dogs or sending the toddler to Japan in error.
Greg, from all of Hollywood, let me just say, GFY.
Rules are rules.
Dont bend them.
What do I make of this? From where I sit, there was ZERO customer service given with warmth or friendliness. I give a lot of credit to the family, they showed considerable restraint toward these FAs who, in my opinion, exhibited bad attitudes. WTH :(
>Why is this site becoming the TMZ of air travel?
Because air travel and everyone involved with it has become more absurd than Hollywood.
Kudos for the captain and the crew.
If parents can't calm down their kids on a plane they should all be kicked out Manu militari!! The most upsetting of all is parents taking their damn noisy kids in business cabin without any consideration for the ones who paid full fare for a peaceful flight experience.
Why is this site becoming the TMZ of air travel?
Goddamn stupid ass flight crew.