In May 2025, United Airlines unveiled all-new cabins for long haul aircraft, a project that the airline is branding as United Elevate. While I’ve covered the details of the new cabins, in this post I’d like to focus a bit more on the entry into service for these planes, as United has just confirmed plans to take delivery of an impressive number of ultra-premium Dreamliners in the coming months.
In this post:
United plans 787-9s with 64 Polaris business class seats
United already has a massive fleet of 80 Boeing 787s, and the airline has an additional 140+ of these aircraft on order, which will be used for fleet renewal over the next decade or so. With United’s upcoming 787-9 deliveries, the airline plans to introduce an uber-premium configuration, with just 222 seats. Specifically, these planes will feature:
- 64 Polaris business class seats, spread across 16 rows, in a 1-2-1 configuration; eight of those will be Polaris Studio seats, which are the front row “business class plus” product
- 35 Premium Plus premium economy seats, spread across five rows, in a 2-3-2 configuration
- 123 economy seats, spread across 15 rows, in a 3-3-3 configuration; 39 of those will be Economy Plus extra legroom seats
For context on the layout, the area between the first and second set of doors will feature 32 business class seats, then the space between the second and third set of doors will feature 32 business class seats and 35 premium economy seats, and then the space between the third and fourth set of doors will feature 123 economy seats.
You can see the seat map below. You’ll notice something unique, which is a function of United selecting the Elevate Ascent product in business class. In the center section, the forward cabin has seats in a reverse herringbone configuration (with seats facing inward), while the rear cabin has seats in a herringbone configuration (with seats facing outward).
United’s current 787-9s are already among the most premium configured of any US airline, with 257 seats, including 48 business class seats, 21 premium economy seats, and 188 economy seats. In other words, this new configuration will see 16 extra business class seats, 14 extra premium economy seats, and 65 fewer economy seats.
United already has the largest long haul business class cabins of any US airline, on average, but this will really take it to the next level. These planes will presumably be pretty versatile, long term:
- On one end of the spectrum, the premium configuration will allow for even more range, given the lower weight of the aircraft
- On the other end of the spectrum, some of these 787-9s are expected to eventually replace the premium 767-300ERs that United operates, to markets like London (LHR), where the range isn’t necessarily needed, but the premium demand is there
What to expect onboard United’s new premium Dreamliners
As I’ve covered in a separate post, not only will the carrier’s upcoming Boeing 787-9s be in a more premium configuration, but they’ll feature new seats, tip-to-tail.
The most exciting new product is the new United Polaris Studio seating, not only featuring much more spacious seats, but also an improved soft product, ranging from a caviar amuse bouche, to upgraded champagne, to additional amenities.
Then there will be new United Polaris seats, featuring doors, and hugely upgraded tech, ranging from bluetooth audio, to more charging options, to high definition entertainment monitors.
The new Premium Plus also looks like a significant improvement, with privacy shields, and upgraded tech.
Lastly, in economy, we can expect larger entertainment monitors with bluetooth audio.
In terms of aircraft-wide tech, these 787-9s will also feature Starlink Wi-Fi, making these among the first wide body aircraft for the carrier to feature the new high speed and complimentary connectivity.
United expects 20 Boeing 787-9 deliveries in 2026
This new premium layout will be available on newly delivered Boeing 787-9s. What’s impressive is that United plans to take delivery of 20 of these aircraft in 2026. While we’ll see how this plays out, the plan is for the airline to add four in the first quarter, four in the second quarter, six in the third quarter, and six in the fourth quarter.
That’s a massive number of Dreamliners to add to the fleet, and United also claims that it’s the most wide body aircraft that any airline in the United States has taken delivery of in a year since 1988. So much for Delta growing more internationally than United! Of course let’s see how this actually plays out, because when you’re relying on Boeing aircraft for growth, well… good luck.
The expectation is that the first 787-9 with this new layout will join the fleet in the coming weeks. The first two routes are expected to be from San Francisco (SFO) to Singapore (SIN) and London (LHR).
United expects to have roughly 30 of these aircraft in service by the end of 2027. Note that while some existing United planes are expected to eventually be reconfigured with new cabins (the timeline is unclear), that doesn’t mean that they’ll get the same ultra premium layout, so expect them to be a bit higher density.
Bottom line
In the coming weeks, we’ll see the introduction of what’s probably the most premium aircraft we’ve ever seen operated by a US carrier. United plans to configure upcoming 787-9s with just 222 seats, including 64 Polaris business class seats.
So not only will these be the least densely configured aircraft of any US airline, but they’ll also feature United’s all-new cabins, including new Polaris seats, Starlink Wi-Fi (hopefully — the timeline there is tricky), and much more.
I look forward to these jets entering service! While the initial deliveries are a little delayed, United expects to add 20 of these planes this year, so at least we’ll see these introduced pretty quickly.
What do you make of United’s new premium Boeing 787-9s?
United Elevate with its uber-premium configuration serving UA's highest yielding ULH markets will only be further enhanced to the great new menus, delicious food and extraordinary wines. When Starlink is added it will be tough to beat.
did your paycheck from UA get deposited today?
At least he got one, unlike you, who was fired from DL.
On a side note, I’m on board UA1520 from MIA to DEN right now and just had a very good lunch. I’ve never been a fan of UA, and I’ve had my share of horrible meals onboard, but I was surprised that the chicken breast with mashed potatoes that I preorderer was excellent.
20 more Polaris seats with the same number of Polaris lavs as the 78X? In the back of the bird, there are 209 seats with 3 lavs. Most A321s or 739s have 4 lavs for that amount of seats, or less. If you fly a lot of long haul, you will know that this will be an issue. Especially upon arrival.
These new 789s have a lav for every 32 passengers which is better than 1/35 on the 78X or 1/38 on some 359s. Pro tip (common sense): go to the toilet during non-rush times.
The public math is entertaining. Yikes!
and you aren't capable of seeing that the seat to lav averages by cabin vary widely?
I am. Check out DL's. Yikes!
Is that only 3 lavs for all 100 in the back; while 4 for 64 Polaris in front? Huh.
Too funny, I made a comment before seeing yours. I fly UA's 78X 5 times a year and 4 lavs with 44 Polaris seats is always a crunch. The current 789 has 3 lavs for 48 Polaris seats, even worse. 64 and 4 is going to be a nightmare!
Hope people have stronger bladders than mine!
“Ultra-premium” and “United” are oxymoronic
Great the chairs have been moved around and what about the appalling long haul inflight food and drink offerings - and the lovely little blue tea towel covering on the tray table -
When was the last time you flew polaris? Has not been blue for a while. Also. tapas options mid-flight have been pretty good on longer flights. Bread basket back and a number of other moves in the right direction.
How do they expect to deliver an enhanced, elevated soft-product experience in the Polaris Studio (with food and beverage) when they can barely handle the existing Polaris business cabin with one less FA? I've had too many instances where service is executed smoothly because of the ratio. Not their fault, but it's the situation they've been dealt. So, passenger will be paying more $ for this 'ultra' premium experience, but still at the mercy of...
How do they expect to deliver an enhanced, elevated soft-product experience in the Polaris Studio (with food and beverage) when they can barely handle the existing Polaris business cabin with one less FA? I've had too many instances where service is executed smoothly because of the ratio. Not their fault, but it's the situation they've been dealt. So, passenger will be paying more $ for this 'ultra' premium experience, but still at the mercy of staffing and catering issues.
This configuration is lightyears better than AA's 787-9P. There's more of everything including a real extra legroom economy sections as well as lavs in the rear of the plane. The small number of extra legroom seats on AA's 787P are all crowded around the only bathrooms for PE/economy as there are no lavs in the rear of AA's plane. Night and day.
UA did a good job of extending the business and premium economy sections all the way to the 3rd set of doors but there are still just 3 lavs for all of premium economy, regular economy and extra legroom economy.
In contrast, UA has 4 lavs for business class (and crew) which is a very low ratio. The lav issue is great if you are in business on UA but not for everyone else....
UA did a good job of extending the business and premium economy sections all the way to the 3rd set of doors but there are still just 3 lavs for all of premium economy, regular economy and extra legroom economy.
In contrast, UA has 4 lavs for business class (and crew) which is a very low ratio. The lav issue is great if you are in business on UA but not for everyone else.
and AA leads the US industry with number of business class on their refurbished 77Ws.
and AA and UA have the same seat on their "ultra-premium" 787s with the advantage for UA being, at best, larger screens.
AA has premium configured 787s in service now.
let's call a spade what it is.
AA takes heat for its lack of extra legroom economy across its fleet overall
Only from Peter. It’s a hill he will die on apparently.
Wait guys idk if you notice this theres seem less economy seats and more premium business class. idk if this is the new trend.
"The expectation is that the first 787-9 with this new layout will join the fleet in the coming weeks. The first two routes are expected to be from San Francisco (SFO) to Singapore (SIN) and London (LHR)."
I plan to fly LHR-SFO in early September, and right now it's showing the usual 3 daily non-stops on a 777-200. Will this new 787-9 be deployed by then? If it does, will all 3 of these daily...
"The expectation is that the first 787-9 with this new layout will join the fleet in the coming weeks. The first two routes are expected to be from San Francisco (SFO) to Singapore (SIN) and London (LHR)."
I plan to fly LHR-SFO in early September, and right now it's showing the usual 3 daily non-stops on a 777-200. Will this new 787-9 be deployed by then? If it does, will all 3 of these daily flights be replaced with the plane, or just one/some of them? How would it work if you already purchased a ticket on the 777-200, but then gets replaced with this 787-9?
Exciting! A big premium cabin hopefully means a better chance at PP/MUA upgrades. What some serial commenters here seem to forget is that this blog is generally not a shareholder profitability report/contest, but instead a blog for for people who like to fly up front without always having to pay retail prices for it. As such, I only care that United (or whoever) makes enough profit to be sustainable and keep gravy trains like this...
Exciting! A big premium cabin hopefully means a better chance at PP/MUA upgrades. What some serial commenters here seem to forget is that this blog is generally not a shareholder profitability report/contest, but instead a blog for for people who like to fly up front without always having to pay retail prices for it. As such, I only care that United (or whoever) makes enough profit to be sustainable and keep gravy trains like this new 64/35 787 in the skies. Also very curious to see how they price the Studio seats (and how quickly that will drop...)
I totally get that the majority of passengers just went the best service they can get for the lowest price - and that includes as many upgrades as possible.
Problem for you is that there really are plenty of people that do want to talk about how great UA is doing financially - despite the fact that they really are just mid-pack among US legacy carriers.
and you do get the idea that "enough...
I totally get that the majority of passengers just went the best service they can get for the lowest price - and that includes as many upgrades as possible.
Problem for you is that there really are plenty of people that do want to talk about how great UA is doing financially - despite the fact that they really are just mid-pack among US legacy carriers.
and you do get the idea that "enough profit to be sustainable" is what matters. But when competitors do things that generate better profits - such as DL's management of its loyalty program to generate higher financial returns (whether passengers like it or not), then DL's competitors including UA do have to adapt to try to get better financial returns.
UA execs have explicitly stated that they intend to run UA to maximize profits and, even if they aren't doing as good of a job as DL in doing that, they are making the decisions which includes deteriorating their loyalty program (as some feel DL has done).
DL doesn't fly 64 or 70 seat business class cabins (AA will lead in the size of business class cabins wiht their 77Ws, not UA) because it doesn't generate the highest financial metrics.
Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume.
Therefore, what you as a customer can expect in the future IS tied to what a company is able to make money doing.
i dont think anybody disputes that last assertion you make.
@Tim,
"Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume."
This is contrary to what has been stated in SEC filings at both UA and DL. Premium cabin revenue is up for both carriers. In the case of DL, econ yield is down (inverse is true for UA). Your assertion that UA and AA are trying...
@Tim,
"Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume."
This is contrary to what has been stated in SEC filings at both UA and DL. Premium cabin revenue is up for both carriers. In the case of DL, econ yield is down (inverse is true for UA). Your assertion that UA and AA are trying to "discount to try and win volume" makes no economic sense. If it were, they have cabins that more closely resemble Philippine Airlines, Air Canada, or the leisure oriented Air France 77Ws. Instead, the spend millions per Polaris seat with large cabins in order to sell it, not to accommodate upgrades from economy.
The fact is, UA can command more volume for paid Business class and Premium Economy, from the markets they serve on a nonstop basis, compared to DL. This isn't a criticism of DL, but it shows clearly that UA is serving a different market than DL in some circumstances, which is clearly outlined in the different configurations of their respective cabins.
no it really isn't hard to figure out, and YOUR explanation is contrary to facts.
UA gets less revenue per seat mile including on its international network than DL even though UA has more premium seats.
@Tim,
If I'm wrong, happy to be corrected. Please show me the facts that "Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume."
"UA gets less revenue per seat mile including on its international network than DL even though UA has more premium seats."
While this true, it doesn't really support your assertion. 1) United has...
@Tim,
If I'm wrong, happy to be corrected. Please show me the facts that "Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume."
"UA gets less revenue per seat mile including on its international network than DL even though UA has more premium seats."
While this true, it doesn't really support your assertion. 1) United has more premium seats (as a share of international capacity) than Delta. Flying with more empty seats might hurt RASM given the bigger cabins, but it doesn't necessarily mean that DL is making more money compared to UA. We aren't comparing operating costs, and this doesn't include ancillary revenue (which we know DL is making more money off their Amex relationship than UA currently). In addition, yield metrics vary over time, across markets, and depending on capacity decisions, fare environment, corporate contracts, and ancillary contributions.
Secondly, you still haven't stated why UA would launch a huge expansion of their Polaris cabins, when, as you say, they are just upgrading people from lower cabins to fill seats. That makes no sense.
first, I and others recognize that UA and AA are both taking seats off of the 787 in order to push the range. UA esp. wants to push deeper and deeper into 16 plus hour flights. AA needs it for some flights including their DFW to S. Pacific flights.
As others here have noted, the A350 is simply a more capable and larger ultra long range aircraft. I get that AA and UA committed...
first, I and others recognize that UA and AA are both taking seats off of the 787 in order to push the range. UA esp. wants to push deeper and deeper into 16 plus hour flights. AA needs it for some flights including their DFW to S. Pacific flights.
As others here have noted, the A350 is simply a more capable and larger ultra long range aircraft. I get that AA and UA committed to the 787 long before the A350 became a real ultra long range challenger but the A350 is a longer range and larger aircraft; the A350-1000 is at the pinnacle of ultra long range capability and will hold, even in DL's rumored configuration, 80-90 more seats than UA's premium configured aircraft.
The A350 was designed after the 787 and, as Airbus often does, makes its products larger and more capable.
All of this talk about all of this demand that justifies bigger premium cabins is driven by the need to push the 787 further.
as for the data showing that DL gets a revenue premium per seat mile, the data is there for multiple public sources by region. DL does get a revenue premium per seat mile esp. over the Pacific which is possible only if DL gets a much higher average fare for non-business class bookings or DL gets a higher average fare across the board; DL just limits the number of business class seats so it can keep yields high. But DL does that across its entire network which is why DL gets more revenue flying less seat miles.
and, for the umpteenth time, loyalty program and credit card revenue IS part of the business model that UA has chosen to use - just like DL. Just because UA doesn't lead in total revenue doesn't allow to exclude it and deny the reality that UA has done a poorer job of maximizing revenue.
and smaller aircraft become less efficient the longer they fly. The reason why DL's A350-1000s will be such a huge advantage is because they are larger than any other US carrier aircraft and still carry 300+ seats.
DL was the only US carrier that went with the 777-200LR even though all 3 operate(d) the 777. DL just found the LR too expensive to operate. The 35K will give DL industry leading low costs per seat mile in ultra long range (16+ hour flights).
Revenue including total revenue - and costs both matter.
DL is by far better positioned to expand its ULH flights - which is exactly what DL is doing.
You're shifting the goal posts again and changing your argument. So which argument are you trying to make?
1) "Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume. "
or
2) "All of this talk about all of this demand that justifies bigger premium cabins is driven by the need to push the 787 further."
We've...
You're shifting the goal posts again and changing your argument. So which argument are you trying to make?
1) "Big business cabins are a sign that AA and UA can't generate the revenue that DL gets so they upgrade and discount to try to win on volume. "
or
2) "All of this talk about all of this demand that justifies bigger premium cabins is driven by the need to push the 787 further."
We've discussed #1.
Regarding #2, there are currently no markets that UA serves with the 789 where habitual and significant seat blocking is occurring. I believe the same is true for AA.
"DL just limits the number of business class seats so it can keep yields high."
That's a colossally stupid move if that's true (which I doubt). Because you're ignoring the fact that if they must be increasing econ seating by reducing Premium seating. And DL announced this week, weakness in the non premium cabin. So the argument doesn't make sense.
"and, for the umpteenth time, loyalty program and credit card revenue IS part of the business model that UA has chosen to use - just like DL. Just because UA doesn't lead in total revenue doesn't allow to exclude it and deny the reality that UA has done a poorer job of maximizing revenue."
No, it just means that DL had a better revenue agreement with Amex than UA does with Chase. For the moment.
"DL was the only US carrier that went with the 777-200LR even though all 3 operate(d) the 777. DL just found the LR too expensive to operate."
Because it burned a ton more fuel than competing aircraft, your argument that smaller is less efficient doesn't stand up for the majority of markets. UA competed on LAX-SYD, NYC-India, and ultimately South Africa services, with either the 777ER or the 787s. Not bigger than a 777LR and yet they seemed to compete more successfully than DL.
"The reason why DL's A350-1000s will be such a huge advantage is because they are larger than any other US carrier aircraft and still carry 300+ seats."
This is a fanciful statement and not based on any facts. Plus they still have none on property.
"DL is by far better positioned to expand its ULH flights - which is exactly what DL is doing."
This is just flat out hyperbole. United is by orders of magnitude, way better positioned for ULH (should they chose to fly them) based on their hub structure than any other US carrier. They have the largest hubs, in the largest markets, in a single airport, with the best geographic positioning, to serve most markets nonstop. If you want to fly Delta, you're connecting.
You can come up w/ the reasons YOU think the world rotates the way it does, but you can't deny that DL gets more revenue per seat mile than UA. AA, not so much.
you seem confused - because you are.
There is nothing contradictory with the fact that UA has bigger business class cabins than DL RIGHT NOW and that BOTH AA and UA are adding even more business class seats while taking off...
You can come up w/ the reasons YOU think the world rotates the way it does, but you can't deny that DL gets more revenue per seat mile than UA. AA, not so much.
you seem confused - because you are.
There is nothing contradictory with the fact that UA has bigger business class cabins than DL RIGHT NOW and that BOTH AA and UA are adding even more business class seats while taking off coach seats in order to get the 787 to operate even longer missions.
there is abundant data that DL does get more revenue per seat mile including ALL of the revenue sources that AA or UA COULD have - but either don't do as well as DL (such as loyalty program) or the refinery (which either AA or UA could have - UA even tried to buy one)
the A350 is simply a more capable and larger aircraft which means lower unit costs; if you don't understand that larger aircraft create higher margins because of increased efficiency, then you are saying the entire upgauging strategy that all US airlines including UA has done - is false.
Upgauging clearly does work and is embraced by every airline and by UA in certain segments.
But because UA can't upgauge any further on 16+ hour flights with its current fleet, you somehow think that the principle of upgauging for greater margins doesn't apply to ULH.
and that is why I love to debate you -because you highlight how badly you cherrypick reality when the whole truth doesn't match your narrative.
The simple fact is that airlines around the world use larger and larger aircraft for longer and longer flights.
But AA and UA can't do that on their ULH flights so they take seats off of the 787 to get more range.
Whether you can admit it or not, DL has an advantage in ULH flying
@Tim,
"and that is why I love to debate you"
We're not debating, because you constantly change the narrative and go back to the tired subjective talking points. You never directly address anyone that challenges you with facts, you make up fantasy rebuttals that nobody is actually making, and you keep repeating false and unprovable assertions to 'bolster' your weak arguments.
"you can't deny that DL gets more revenue per seat mile than...
@Tim,
"and that is why I love to debate you"
We're not debating, because you constantly change the narrative and go back to the tired subjective talking points. You never directly address anyone that challenges you with facts, you make up fantasy rebuttals that nobody is actually making, and you keep repeating false and unprovable assertions to 'bolster' your weak arguments.
"you can't deny that DL gets more revenue per seat mile than UA."
Show me where I denied this.
"Problem for you is that there really are plenty of people that do want to talk about how great UA is doing financially"
Literally no one on this blog wants to talk about that. This is a fully made up fiction from your addled, sad imagination.
Truly, if you went away tomorrow (God is only so good...) no one would likely bring up the word "Profits" (which you always pluralizing it makes you sound like...
"Problem for you is that there really are plenty of people that do want to talk about how great UA is doing financially"
Literally no one on this blog wants to talk about that. This is a fully made up fiction from your addled, sad imagination.
Truly, if you went away tomorrow (God is only so good...) no one would likely bring up the word "Profits" (which you always pluralizing it makes you sound like some amateurish child, to be honest) on this blog for days on end.
Literally, get it through your head that truly no one gives close to as much of a fuck about profit on this blog than you.
Go start your own blog about the daily goings-on of the aviation world from a Wall Street perspective. There's definitely interest out there in the ether.
Of course, that blog would go nowhere because anyone who cares as much about the financial performance of airlines as much as you do is certainly a hell of a lot smarter than to know your analysis is all that meaningful.
well, yes, Daniel, people (the paid UA employees that spend their day telling us how great UA is) do argue incessantly about why all of the reasons that UA underperforms financially aren't true.
Scott Kirby set out ~10 years ago when he came to UA than then became the CEO that UA would close the gap financially with DL.
Almost 10 years after Kirby came to UA and brought scores of UA execs w/ him,...
well, yes, Daniel, people (the paid UA employees that spend their day telling us how great UA is) do argue incessantly about why all of the reasons that UA underperforms financially aren't true.
Scott Kirby set out ~10 years ago when he came to UA than then became the CEO that UA would close the gap financially with DL.
Almost 10 years after Kirby came to UA and brought scores of UA execs w/ him, UA is smack dab in the middle of AA and DL financially
As much as everyone hiding under the desk at UA wants to argue otherwise, it is abundantly clear that UA under Kirby has focused much more on size and market share than on profitability. UA under Kirby has trash talked the rest of the industry - except for DL which he has repeatedly said that UA is in the same league with - trying to gain market share.
UA NEVER had the domestic "monopoly" hubs that AA and esp. DL have and UA will never knock off the big 4 competitors from major markets like NYC, WAS, CHI, DEN or LAX and yet UA spends enormous amounts of money fighting market share wars that cost UA.
DL execs can clearly see what UA is doing - anyone can since Kirby touts his campaign to knock everyone off every chance he can get - and are building in Asia/Pacific which is now a very profitable region. And DL is going to do it with the best aircraft available - the 35K followed by the 359. HKG will be followed by SIN and MNL even as ICN will be built to far more than UA or any other airline can do with their TPAC JV hubs.
DL has easily displaced UA to Latin America because of the LA JV and unlike UA, DL is making money flying to the region.
Meanwhile UA is engaged in a very costly war in Chicago that is costing UA hundreds of millions per year whether Kirby will admit it or not. AA is going nowhere.
JetBlue and Spirit are on the ropes but the benefit from both's weakness goes to DL, not UA.
AA and WN are engaged in major strategic turnarounds that make their ability to compete with UA far stronger.
People love to talk about the growth and the international dominance but they can't admit that UA is run by a bunch of testosterone fueled, insecure people who are committed to spending their careers getting back at AA for not promoting them while wasting enormous resources fighting battles that UA can't win.
Brianna is right. Passengers only want the most service for the cheapest price. But she and other people don't want to accept that UA will trail DL financially by a wide margin and will never be able to deliver the services and network she wants as long as they are driven by the strategies they currently use.
yes, people do want to talk about what UA is doing and will do because it is intimately connected to what UA can do in the future and what the competition can do.
Tim you stupid douche. Any neutral observer, if asked WHICH poster was most likely to be a (low) paid shill for any hotel/airline company on here, would immediately point their finger at you.
What a truly sad and pathetic individual you are.
Ben, I don't think that these 787-9s will replace the 676-300ER High Js flying ORD/EWR-LHR and another few routes--United has not said so.. That would be a huge capacity increase and United is partially competing on frequency. While it's unclear now, perhaps the 787-8s will be configured into an ultra-premium subfleet - 12 aircraft could service the 10 daily flights. That's speculation though.
That's not a unique J configuration. Several airlines, including both Delta and American, have inward-facing seats in the center and outward-facing seats along the windows.
Is no one else going to comment on the notion of forcing over 200 people to share THREE lavatories on what are likely to be United's longest transatlantic and transpacific flights? I know Ben and Gary Leff love to drool over the "Business Class Studio" concept, but spare a...
That's not a unique J configuration. Several airlines, including both Delta and American, have inward-facing seats in the center and outward-facing seats along the windows.
Is no one else going to comment on the notion of forcing over 200 people to share THREE lavatories on what are likely to be United's longest transatlantic and transpacific flights? I know Ben and Gary Leff love to drool over the "Business Class Studio" concept, but spare a thought for the human bladders back in steerage.
Not sure what you are talking about.
There are two lavs for 32 in the front section, two lavs for 67 in the middle section and three lavs for 123 in coach so seven lavatories for 222 passengers.
The lavatories are restricted by class, not by the physical sections of the plane. The forward four lavatories are reserved for Polaris. Premium Plus passengers are not permitted to use Polaris lavatories, and are directed back to the coach lavs at the rear. 209 seats in PP and coach, sharing three lavatories.
209? 222 - 64 = 158 and Premium Plus will obviously be using the two lavs in their section in this new configuration. That is the beauty of it compared to the current 789 configuration.
Have you ever flown United?
The stews are VERY strict about enforcing the cabin rules for using the toilets. Unless you can cite some United company policy specifically allowing PP passengers on this configuration to use Polaris lavatories - which is in direct contradiction to company policy on every other United aircraft - your "obviously" is meaningless.
United will reserve those lavatories for Polaris, just like they always do, and PP and Economy...
Have you ever flown United?
The stews are VERY strict about enforcing the cabin rules for using the toilets. Unless you can cite some United company policy specifically allowing PP passengers on this configuration to use Polaris lavatories - which is in direct contradiction to company policy on every other United aircraft - your "obviously" is meaningless.
United will reserve those lavatories for Polaris, just like they always do, and PP and Economy will share the lavs at the rear. Just like they always do.
Yes, I fly on United international frequently and if you look at the international wide body cabin layouts it will make sense to you. And you might want to work on your public math because 158 was the irrelevant number you were struggling to find not 200 or 209.
209? 222 - 64 = 158 and Premium Plus will obviously be using the two lavs in their section in this new configuration. That is the beauty of it compared to the current 789 configuration.
The new interiors look great and I like the herringbone/reverse herringbone in the two separate sections and the second section having just Polaris and Premium Plus with Economy Plus and Economy in the rear section of the aircraft. Very well thought out.
United is outstanding at aircraft interiors and the upgraded interiors complement the current Polaris suites so there is no hurry refurbishing those. The different J densities allow tailoring premium offerings to the markets...
The new interiors look great and I like the herringbone/reverse herringbone in the two separate sections and the second section having just Polaris and Premium Plus with Economy Plus and Economy in the rear section of the aircraft. Very well thought out.
United is outstanding at aircraft interiors and the upgraded interiors complement the current Polaris suites so there is no hurry refurbishing those. The different J densities allow tailoring premium offerings to the markets they serve.
Hello, Ben! This is the 6th time I'm commenting to let you know that Adient Aerospace no longer exists.
It was rebranded as "Elevate Aircraft Seating" on April 30 last year. So it's "Elevate Ascent," not "Adient Ascent."
You're the only media that still calls it Adient. It's like calling Safran as Zodiac, Collins as B/E Aerospace.
@ S_LEE -- Hey, I appreciate it! Keep calling me out when I get it wrong... old habits can take some time to break, but I'll do my best.
Finally! Thanks for quickly updating this post:)
In Young Frankenstein, Marty Feldman said: blucher, blucher.
as for the growth aspect of this, UA just reported its financial results for the 4th quarter and full year 2025.
As I expected, they made 2/3 of the net profits DL did even though UA flew 10% more ASMs.
Several people went on and on about free cash flow and yet UA generate, wait, wait, about 2/3 of the FCF that DL did for 2025.
and let's keep in mind that UA still...
as for the growth aspect of this, UA just reported its financial results for the 4th quarter and full year 2025.
As I expected, they made 2/3 of the net profits DL did even though UA flew 10% more ASMs.
Several people went on and on about free cash flow and yet UA generate, wait, wait, about 2/3 of the FCF that DL did for 2025.
and let's keep in mind that UA still has a labor cost advantage to AA and DL because it has tens of thousands of FAs and mechanics that aren't being paid industry comparable salaries and benefits. That will end.
as for the "massive" fleet of 787s, DL has a combined 339 and 359 fleet within or two of 80 which is all the more significant since UA started buying 787s long before DL's new generation fleet replacement started.
and all ~80 of those DL 339s and 359s have had suite business class products on them since the day they entered service.
And UA still has an aging and vulnerable fleet of Pratt powered 777-200/ERs that will have to be replaced and then their 767 fleet. UA's fleet guidance for 2026 shows no planned widebody retirements which simply means they will pay a higher price when they actually do start widebody retirements which hopefully will not be caused by a disaster.
UA's results for the 4th quarter showed that UA is still all about growth at the expense of best-in-class financial results; their system results were improved but Latin America is still a financial drag for them.
In the inevitable DL vs UA comparison, UA still is fixated on size but is far less successful than DL in financial and operational metrics and there is no likelihood that will change as long as UA is willing to fight everyone for market share.
and it is notable that UA's most premium 787s will have at least 80 seats less than DL's 35Ks when they enter service, expected to be in 2027. All of the airplanes UA adds that are smaller than DL's 35Ks simply means that absolute growth will be better for DL than UA.
thanks for the red meat, Ben.
The topic is about UA’s 787 with new seats. Please stay on topic.
Keep up. Ben threw some red meat about Delta v United growth
Of course you don’t want to admit that United’s results put it squarely between AA and DL and nowhere comparable to DL - just like I said would be the case
And United’s product or rollout of the new business class is anything but class leading. They just have to keep taking seats off the 787 to get range which the 350 can do with many more seats
He did not. Your mind is sick and you see “red meat” when there’s none. Whenever someone writes “UA” you see “red meat”. You should seek help. Please stay on topic.
Did you not notice that UA has a reserve specifically for retro-pay? That has been accounted for.
And let's not even talk about the poor B767 experience and lack of worldwide inflight internet on DL.
Eduardo
please read before posting
"So much for Delta growing more internationally than United! Of course let’s see how this actually plays out, because when you’re relying on Boeing aircraft for growth, well… good luck."
I didn't make the comparison. Ben did. He is a smart man and knows what it takes to engage readers.
We had to read through all kinds of non-sense about how UA was catching up to DL. And...
Eduardo
please read before posting
"So much for Delta growing more internationally than United! Of course let’s see how this actually plays out, because when you’re relying on Boeing aircraft for growth, well… good luck."
I didn't make the comparison. Ben did. He is a smart man and knows what it takes to engage readers.
We had to read through all kinds of non-sense about how UA was catching up to DL. And yet actual results show they are not. Not even close.
UA's financial results are smack dab in the middle of what AA will report and what DL reported.
all while having a labor cost advantage and also while flying 10% more ASMs than DL.
ptah...
UA made a non-cash accounting charge in the 2nd quarter of 2025 for retro pay for its FAs but has not increased ongoing labor costs - because they cannot know what to raise them to until they have a contract.
We are supposed to believe that 20 A350s that don't YET have WiFi and 80 717s are supposed to be offset by the 1000 UA mainline aircraft that do not YET have free high speed WiFi?
It only is a valid comparison in the minds of UA fan nuts that can't admit that UA is actually 4th in the US in rolling out free high speed WiFi (although AA's rollout is not going as planned, they still have way more aircraft wiht it than UA).
DL simply leads the global industry in the most number of aircraft with free high speed WiFi and offers it across the Atlantic and throughout the Americas.
DL will have it across the Pacific long before UA gets to even 75% of its fleet w/ it and has worldwide access.
keep going so I can remind everyone how much further out front DL is on free high speed WiFi.
Once again, no one wants to read another 10 paragraphs of your sick mind seeing “red meat”. Please stay on topic. And seek medical help.
Ben barely mentioned Delta in this article, you lunatic.
You might walk around the hospital with a deep, encyclopedic knowledge of Delta's financial standing, but the rest of the world does not share your obsession. No one else is even talking about Delta in this article or comments.
Your Delta fixation is pathological. Get help before your anger at Ben and the rest of us turns into something dangerous.
Tim, the vitriol you receive is simply the sound of cognitive dissonance from people who don't understand balance sheets.
You are 100% correct on the Free Cash Flow (FCF) disparity. United is burning capital to create a "halo product" sub-fleet of 787s that introduces massive operational complexity. If one of these specialized 222-seat birds goes AOG (Aircraft on Ground), they have no backfill that doesn't result in massive involuntary downgrades and DOT compensation payouts. It’s...
Tim, the vitriol you receive is simply the sound of cognitive dissonance from people who don't understand balance sheets.
You are 100% correct on the Free Cash Flow (FCF) disparity. United is burning capital to create a "halo product" sub-fleet of 787s that introduces massive operational complexity. If one of these specialized 222-seat birds goes AOG (Aircraft on Ground), they have no backfill that doesn't result in massive involuntary downgrades and DOT compensation payouts. It’s a fragile network strategy.
Delta’s approach with the A350-1000 is objectively superior: it delivers the premium capacity without sacrificing density or belly cargo—the actual profit drivers of long-haul aviation. United is stripping seats (revenue) just to force the 787-9 to perform a mission it struggles with; Delta buys the right airframe for the mission. That is why Ed Bastian consistently delivers industry-leading operating margins while Kirby chases shiny objects.
The 35K in DLs configuration will definitely sacrifice cargo space for fuel tanks.
Talk about a sub fleet, not too many routes need that kind of range.
Wait didn’t you say that because they had fewer route launches than some number you expected (though they did more than Delta so) that meant they must be retiring widebodies in 2026, which they have just announced they are not… so you’re wrong, again? Like you were about when Delta would announce their 787 order - when you said it would be at their fake 100th anniversary celebration with employees and you were completely wrong?...
Wait didn’t you say that because they had fewer route launches than some number you expected (though they did more than Delta so) that meant they must be retiring widebodies in 2026, which they have just announced they are not… so you’re wrong, again? Like you were about when Delta would announce their 787 order - when you said it would be at their fake 100th anniversary celebration with employees and you were completely wrong? Or when you promised that because of the EWR ATC issues that Delta would beat United in NYC for 2025, except that is now also wrong? In fact Delta printed YoY declines in NYC for almost every month after, what a lol you are Tim. You proclaim to be an expert and then time after time you’re wrong and then you never respond when people point out how wrong you are.
Also they do generate more free cash flow from flying than Delta does, the extra third comes from Delta’s refinery - not the airline. If we want to compare companies that aren’t directly comparable by purely looking at their financial statements I can find you a hundred companies that have higher FCF than Delta, none of them fly aircraft though. So every time you highlight Delta’s profits being higher than United’s just know that you sound like someone who doesn’t understand that different businesses are well different - you can compare Delta’s airline operations to United’s, you can even compare loyalty, you just can’t compare total profits or group profits because Delta has a fundamentally different business in its corporate structure.
I mean I do find this also interesting that you’re so focused on the profits too, as I don’t know how many readers are buying stock in these airlines but most of this blog focuses on the customer experience of these airlines. So I don’t think you really get at what anyone actually cares about. In fact the profits probably show who’s charging more for the customer experience than they should. Delta wins on some aspects like OTP, United wins by having a more consistent product and more destinations. Most people’s experience of airlines is really defined by who they have hubbed at their city (or the hub they most easily connect to), so these two airlines really only compete head to head in LA and NYC, so much of the head to head comparison here doesn’t actually matter for the majority of fliers.
I am so tired of you UA fan nuts talking about how great UA is but when it is invariably pointed out that UA underperforms DL you launch into one excuse after another as to why UA really doesn't underperform.
UA AND DL as well as AA OPERATE UNDER THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL.
All have frequently flyer programs. UA considered buying a refinery but decided not to. There is nothing sacred about the refinery that...
I am so tired of you UA fan nuts talking about how great UA is but when it is invariably pointed out that UA underperforms DL you launch into one excuse after another as to why UA really doesn't underperform.
UA AND DL as well as AA OPERATE UNDER THE SAME BUSINESS MODEL.
All have frequently flyer programs. UA considered buying a refinery but decided not to. There is nothing sacred about the refinery that AA or UA couldn't do. All have heavy maintenance operations that they could turn into contracts from major suppliers - but only DL has gone all-in into contract maintenance with substantial benefits that other airlines cannot do; DL has exclusive US airline engine overhaul rights for every new generation engine in service.
and, no, I didn't guarantee any date when DL would announce its 787 order; I offered multiple possibilities of which earnings day was one - and that turned out to be correct.
No one cares about the date the order was announced; the point is that DL has a steady stream of large and efficient widebody aircraft coming over the next decade.
if you don't understand that the objective of for-profit companies is to, wait, wait, generate profits, then you have no busy participating in any defense of UA.
UA chooses size at the expense of financial leadership and yet UA still is smaller than AA and DL in the domestic market.
and DL will have significant advantages that will allow it to grow in international markets that UA simply cannot match any time soon.
Feel free to keep attempting to deflect from the reality that UA is a solid second tier airline and business behind DL and ahead of AA.
Take a deep breath and next time proofread before you post. Your multiple grammar errors detract from your message.
Nobody is saying United's not trying to make money, and nobody is really trying to have this contest in this space.
“I am so tired of you UA fan nuts …”
I know I shouldn’t, because you clearly have serious mental issues, but I’ll try it anyway.
Do you have any ideia that starting a phrase with “I am so tired of you UA fan nuts”, when you have been banned from pretty much the whole community because of your pathological sick weird obsession with DL, just makes you look even more stupid ?
I don’t...
“I am so tired of you UA fan nuts …”
I know I shouldn’t, because you clearly have serious mental issues, but I’ll try it anyway.
Do you have any ideia that starting a phrase with “I am so tired of you UA fan nuts”, when you have been banned from pretty much the whole community because of your pathological sick weird obsession with DL, just makes you look even more stupid ?
I don’t need another 10 paragraphs of how every inch of DL CEO’s penis translates into profits , we all know that you live a life of envying people so you have to keep coming up with data that only you care for just to make yourself feel relevant. I just a need a simple yes or no answer.
Thanks. And seek help. Quickly.
I participate in multiple sites so, no, I haven't been banned from "pretty much the whole community"
I said a long time ago that I would stop comparing DL's financial position to UA's (or vice versa) as soon as UA execs and its "fan nuts" here and elsewhere dispense with the non-sense that UA is in any way financially comparable to DL in performance.
A few people have managed to try to argue otherwise but...
I participate in multiple sites so, no, I haven't been banned from "pretty much the whole community"
I said a long time ago that I would stop comparing DL's financial position to UA's (or vice versa) as soon as UA execs and its "fan nuts" here and elsewhere dispense with the non-sense that UA is in any way financially comparable to DL in performance.
A few people have managed to try to argue otherwise but some of the previous people still bothered to make those claims.
I am happy that UA has made progress. Really. They just are still right smack dab between AA and DL in financial metrics.
and nowhere close to DL in the totality of operational or financial metrics.
As usual, you don’t answer the question and provide even more data that only you are obsessed with. I knew it was useless but it was worth trying. Seek help.
You do this on multiple websites, and multiple threads, every day?
Must be nice to have that level of free time in the middle of the work day.
I'll add to the chorus of "seek help", buddy
there are plenty of people that participate in multiple sites. I have repeatedly said that I voice dictate many of my posts which means I really don't spend much time.
As for the "get help" crowd, that really means to some people "don't tell us the truth we don't want to hear"
And the "our (UA) cancellation rate was industry leading because we weighted mainline over regional flights" line was fully explained when UA touted...
there are plenty of people that participate in multiple sites. I have repeatedly said that I voice dictate many of my posts which means I really don't spend much time.
As for the "get help" crowd, that really means to some people "don't tell us the truth we don't want to hear"
And the "our (UA) cancellation rate was industry leading because we weighted mainline over regional flights" line was fully explained when UA touted that its seat completion rate was industry leading.
In fact, this reveals that a lot of the people on here that argue incessantly about how great UA is ARE UNITED EMPLOYEES which I have believed for years.
UA has been working on this NEW METRIC that is not industry standard because they need to be #1 at something so they COOK the data and invent their own metrics.
No, I don't need help.
The people that need help are those that can't admit that a company really is not the best as well as those that cook up these manipulations of data in order to claim that they are #1 by their own metric.
I'll keep at it as long as it is necessary to highlight the inability of some to admit what they really are - in this case #2
Tim, I'm trying to be as nice as possible and avoid sarcasm. There's so much to choose from, but I'll pick just one thing you said. From your post:
"DL will have significant advantages that will allow it to grow in international markets that UA simply cannot match any time soon."
You're only right that UA can't "grow" as much, because UA already has a significantly bigger presence than DL. Its easy to have higher...
Tim, I'm trying to be as nice as possible and avoid sarcasm. There's so much to choose from, but I'll pick just one thing you said. From your post:
"DL will have significant advantages that will allow it to grow in international markets that UA simply cannot match any time soon."
You're only right that UA can't "grow" as much, because UA already has a significantly bigger presence than DL. Its easy to have higher growth when you start so much smaller.
Numbers fluctuate, but here's some data:
- UA has 211 wide bodies in operation (plus 18 parked or in maintenance) / expect 20 787s in 2026
- DA has 179 wide bodies in operation. (plus 13 parked or in maintenance) / expect maybe 19 more in 2026 (7 A330-900neos, 5 A350-900s, and an unspecified number of the 20 A350-1000s due '26 thru '28... so maybe about 1/3rd or 7?)
UA will serve 46 cities across the Atlantic thus summer. DA will serve just over 30.
UA serves 22 Pacific international destinations. DA serves 9.
An objective assessment would be the reverse of what you posted. You should have said Delta will have a hard time matching United's widebody international presence any time soon.
Instead of offering an objective analysis, you can come across like a game-shirt wearing, obsessed team fan who thinks their team can do no wrong, and every other team 100% stinks because ("reasons"). If a player on your team ("He's the best!") leaves and signs with another team, now he's horrible ("He's a bum!"). And the analogy fits, because like the crazed fan, you appear to believe that Delta's successes are somehow related to you - like you assisted in bringing them about, or that they somehow make YOU superior to other comnenters. You do realize, you are just on the sidelines, right? Even if DL is better in every way - it doesn't actually affect you. You know that, right?
You offer interesting insights. I just wish they could be unbiased.
Wow, that’s one of the best comments I’ve ever seen here. Thank you for that ! But unfortunately, you wasted your time trying to argue with Tim. He’s just not capable of having a rational discussion like we all do. He’s going to write 10+ paragraphs of nonsense and data that turns him on. But onc again, thank you for such a good read.
Justin,
all of that typing and you still don't understand that growth is not about what anyone or anything has but where they are coming and the potential they have.
DL (not DA) was the largest airline across the Pacific when they merged with NW - but NW's Pacific system lost money; UA went full force into taking the number 1 title over the Pacific but UA just broke even for years over the...
Justin,
all of that typing and you still don't understand that growth is not about what anyone or anything has but where they are coming and the potential they have.
DL (not DA) was the largest airline across the Pacific when they merged with NW - but NW's Pacific system lost money; UA went full force into taking the number 1 title over the Pacific but UA just broke even for years over the Pacific but is now making decent money.
It is precisely because UA is profitable over the Pacific that this is the right time for DL to regrow its TPAC network
BY DEFINITION, DL's growth will take share from UA UNLESS UA adds more capacity than DL. In fact, DL is adding as much if not more TPAC capacity than UA AS A RATIO.
Nowhere have I ever said DL is going to overtake UA across the Pacific but DL will rebuild its network to add destinations and routes that UA has had pretty much to themselves.
and the 35K is simply a larger and more capable aircraft than anything UA has. UA has the choice to either keep taking seats off of 787s to match what the A350 can do or buy the A350 itself or bet on the 777-8 which is the only other plane that will match the 350's range.
It really is not that hard for anyone that can step back long and far enough to see.
It is clear that you are wedded to the same UA mindset that "we are so large that no one can catch us" to see that DL really does have significant advantages that it will use to grow in UA's most significant region.
and, if I am on the sidelines, where are you? just another one of UA's paid social media warriors that works OMAAT while working at Willis Tower?
Told ya @justin
7 paragraphs. I missed by 3.
You highlight, Eduardo, that you are incapable of discussing the subject so you attack the messenger that brings you the message you are incapable of accepting.
ONE SENTENCE. All of the truth that matters on OMAAT.
Guys go nice on Lil Timmy, the resident incel is clearly having a bad day and now spiraling.
Like an even more pugnacious DCS
“ONE SENTENCE. All of the truth that matters on OMAAT.”
I don’t need to say anything else. The funniest thing is that the more we show you how juvenile and stupid you are, the more effort you put on proving us right.
Seek help little Timmy.
I ALWAYS win when you (collectively) quit debating the topic and try to defame me.
Yes, Delta has the advantage in ultra long haul with the A350-1000 over the 787
Tim, you think UA will be deploying 787s with *64* Polaris seats and *35* premium economy seats on SFO-LHR because they need the range? lol
The 787s already fly SFO-SIN without the upcoming IGW enhancements. This is all about capturing the huge premium demand out of their hubs in most of the country’s biggest business centers.
DL, with hubs in SLC, MSP, DTW, and only 20% of the market in LAX while being smaller...
Tim, you think UA will be deploying 787s with *64* Polaris seats and *35* premium economy seats on SFO-LHR because they need the range? lol
The 787s already fly SFO-SIN without the upcoming IGW enhancements. This is all about capturing the huge premium demand out of their hubs in most of the country’s biggest business centers.
DL, with hubs in SLC, MSP, DTW, and only 20% of the market in LAX while being smaller than UA in NYC and a distant number two to AS in SEA, doesn’t need as much premium capacity, which is probably why you don’t understand what UA is capitalizing on.
UA increased EPS in 2025 while DL’s shrank. DL took a bigger hit to yield over the Pacific as they try unsuccessfully to close the gap with UA.
DL has less than 30 international planes being delivered over the next five years while UA is taking deliver of almost that many 787s in just over one year.
UA is narrowing the credit card revenue gap already, and that is before they renominate the agreement with Chase in a couple of years.
UA already makes more money from running the airline and both revenue and profits continue to rise.
DL makes money from fortress hubs without competition and political help from ATL, where plans for a second airport were scrapped.
Where DL has to compete, they don’t do as well. Their numbers are down in NYC while UA’s are up. They’re a distant number two in SEA while only managing a couple of percentage points more than AA and UA in LAX.
UA dwarfs DL on the west coast and has the best Midwest hub in ORD, where DL has to inefficiently split traffic between MSP and DTW, just like they inefficiently split traffic in NYC.
DL’s mountain west hub in SLC is a fraction of the size of UA’s mountain west hub in DEN.
So yes, DL has profits thanks to the oil refinery, credit card revenue, and a political arrangement with ATL to suppress competition, but UA has the momentum and is a much more intersting airline to watch.
UA knows how to compete, while DL does better in hubs where they don’t have to compete.
Oh, I almost forgot, did you see JonNYC’s post about UA installing Starlink on 450 mainline planes this year?
Go easy on lil Timmy. He’s been crushed today already.
first,
UA's yield on a system basis was down 1% while DL's was up 2%. UA added far more capacity than DL than DL and ended up with inferior financial results.
UA is simply focused on capacity growth and the result is lower financial results. Why you argue against what is clearly obvious is beyond explanation other than that you really believe that UA's growth, growth, growth strategy works - except it REALLY DOESN'T.
...first,
UA's yield on a system basis was down 1% while DL's was up 2%. UA added far more capacity than DL than DL and ended up with inferior financial results.
UA is simply focused on capacity growth and the result is lower financial results. Why you argue against what is clearly obvious is beyond explanation other than that you really believe that UA's growth, growth, growth strategy works - except it REALLY DOESN'T.
UA CONSISTENTLY reports inferior financial results flying more capacity and with more growth.
None of which changes that DL has UA by the balls because continuing to fly 787s with even 265 seats can't compete with aircraft that carry more passengers - which is all of DL's 350s and 339s.
DL has far more service from the eastern US to E. Asia than UA; there is no doubt that UA is ahead from the west coast but DL IS growing from the west coast. Get back and let us know what DL manages to board from LAX-HKG. I'm loving yet another match up.
and, DL has high speed FREE Wifi on 900 aircraft right now. As I have consistently said, UA will come nowhere close to matching DL's number of aircraft w/ free high speed WiFi in 2026.
thank you for confirming that UA won't even have half of its mainline fleet w/ Starlink in 2026.
DL had more than 50% of its aircraft with free high speed WiFi before UA even announced Starlink. and you have the nerve to talk about what UA will accomplish.
precisely when?
You arrogant UA nuts don't have a clue when to stop.
Ha yes free wifi except over the Pacific on those long flights where people need it the most.
DL’s service from the eastern half of the US makes people connect in MSP and DTW. I’m sure the premium pax in NYC love that. lol
And yes, DL’s 20 A350-1000s will be a game changer. UA’s fleet of over 200 787s will be no match for them.
Once DL starts spending more on technology,...
Ha yes free wifi except over the Pacific on those long flights where people need it the most.
DL’s service from the eastern half of the US makes people connect in MSP and DTW. I’m sure the premium pax in NYC love that. lol
And yes, DL’s 20 A350-1000s will be a game changer. UA’s fleet of over 200 787s will be no match for them.
Once DL starts spending more on technology, relative to UA, there will be more pressure on their results too. But at least they’ll finally have a better app and won’t take so long to recover from meltdowns. lol
Tim
Yes we agree
DL is better run
DL is more profitable
DL is more premium
DL has A350K to destroy competition
DL has a refinery
DL has more RASM
DL has billions more coming in Engine maintenance
We also agree that both airlines are far apart in their finances
In the meantime here is official comparison in Q4, still just in DL’s rear view...
Tim
Yes we agree
DL is better run
DL is more profitable
DL is more premium
DL has A350K to destroy competition
DL has a refinery
DL has more RASM
DL has billions more coming in Engine maintenance
We also agree that both airlines are far apart in their finances
In the meantime here is official comparison in Q4, still just in DL’s rear view mirror
UA vs DL
Rev $15.4B $16.0B
YoY 4.8% 3.0%
EPS $3.10 $1.55
Pre tax margin $8.5% $9.5%
Capacity growth 6% 3%
You are correct, UA adding 6% capacity means they did not monetize their growth properly
Summary- Yupp , UAs strategy of becoming more premium and profitable isn’t working as DL is still toooo far ahead with all the advantages! Time to let go of the board and management and start all over!
And yes, UA has to pay FA but won’t get any more money from uncle Chase. sol!
8 more paragraphs.
Poor Timmy. His wife will have to start monitoring his computer time.
We can only wish someone monitoring what you say, Eduardo, but clearly there is no one that can help you add anything meaningful to any website - because you are simply incapable of doing so,
Mark at least tries but he misses that life and business is a marathon, not a sprint, and UA's earnings for 2025 as a whole trailed DL's by $1.7 billion - which is 50% more than UA made even though...
We can only wish someone monitoring what you say, Eduardo, but clearly there is no one that can help you add anything meaningful to any website - because you are simply incapable of doing so,
Mark at least tries but he misses that life and business is a marathon, not a sprint, and UA's earnings for 2025 as a whole trailed DL's by $1.7 billion - which is 50% more than UA made even though UA flies 10% more ASMs.
this notion that UA is in any way closing the gap with DL is a fantasy. Pure and simple.
UA is, as Brianna notes, generating enough profit to be sustainable - nobody doubts that - but the notion that UA is in DL's league financially - is a fantasy of Kirby and co. which UA's employee fans on social media push.
UA is right in the middle of AA and DL financially. and that is before UA pays the bill for labor - which UA execs say will cost them a couple margin points of profits.
AA and WN are getting stronger by the day. DL can and will continue to take very targeted opportunities to grow where it needs to and UA will be too busy trying to kill everyone else off to be able to do anything about DL's growth, esp. in APAC.
I can't wait for DL's LAX-HKG and LAX-ORD this summer.
7 more paragraphs of data only you are weirdly obsessed with and that has nothing to do with the topic.
The topic is about UA 787 with new seats. Please stay on topic. This has to be an all time stupidity record. Even for you.
Hi Ben, do you think the center herringbone seats would be a decent choice for flying with children and close enough to where you could help them with putting their seatbelt on, adjusting the TV, eating, etc?
@ Flow -- Yeah, I think that's exactly the type of situations where those seats would be preferred.
For some further clarification, four of these aircraft (Line Numbers 1267, 1275, 1281 and 1285) are already built and rolled out. 1281 and 1285 only happened recently so there's no real way those planes would be quite ready to fly yet, but 1267 has been out for around three months and has already flown three test flights. It seems that there are delays around seat certification, otherwise I would expect those first two planes to...
For some further clarification, four of these aircraft (Line Numbers 1267, 1275, 1281 and 1285) are already built and rolled out. 1281 and 1285 only happened recently so there's no real way those planes would be quite ready to fly yet, but 1267 has been out for around three months and has already flown three test flights. It seems that there are delays around seat certification, otherwise I would expect those first two planes to already be delivered. So hopefully eveyrhting is sorted very soon and those planes can start delivery.
Does anyone know if these aircraft will have Starlink? I saw that Qatar put it on a 787 and the Starlink web site shows a Q1 2026 certification for 789s.
It's nice to see UA catch up to AA in terms of biz. hard product.
And catch up to pretty much every non-US carrier that vends a biz. class product.
AA? AA's new product is still mid AF and the finishes look like theyre from the 90s.
I still don't understand why AA and UA selected the faux wood details. Like Emirates and other airlines ditched (or at least steering clear from) the faux wood interiors of 90s and 2000s and of course, AA and UA picked these faux wood details.
I miss the good old days, when people could use more meaningful adjectives than the lazy "mid" to describe something they did not like.
It's stoner lingo James. Go burn one and you won't even notice inane descriptors like "mid." And if you do you will surely lack the effort to post about it. PPP
AA and UA literally will literally have the same exact hard product.
On a few planes the seats are the same. However, United is lightyears ahead when looking at Polaris installation. It took A LOOOOONG time and AA hasn't announced anything for it's current 787 or 772 fleet other than the long long long delay in updating 773 fleet. So, yes, AA will have a few shiny new planes with new premium offerings while all of UA's International Widebody Fleet offers Polaris.
Yes, the 757s are...
On a few planes the seats are the same. However, United is lightyears ahead when looking at Polaris installation. It took A LOOOOONG time and AA hasn't announced anything for it's current 787 or 772 fleet other than the long long long delay in updating 773 fleet. So, yes, AA will have a few shiny new planes with new premium offerings while all of UA's International Widebody Fleet offers Polaris.
Yes, the 757s are old and don't offer direct aisle, but we all know AA desperately wishes they still had their 757 and 767 fleets going to destinations they can't efficiently serve today.
AA has announced that the 772s will get a cabin upgrade to the new suites, while the first 77W is currently getting it. Honestly the current AA 787-9 and most of the 772s and 787-8s has very competitive super diamond J class seats. I’m excluding the concept D cabins.