A Virgin Voyages cruise organized by Atlantis Events was supposed to make a couple of stops in Turkey on a cruise that’s taking place this upcoming week, only for government officials to block this on the grounds of “moral standards.” While it’s common for countries to have different laws surrounding what kind of sexual activity is allowed within its borders, blocking a cruise based on the general customer base is pretty unprecedented.
In this post:
Turkey blocks Atlantis Events cruise at the last minute
Atlantis Events organizes cruises primarily for LGBTQ+ travelers. The idea is that they essentially charter cruise ships, and then sell cabins to those who are fans of the Atlantis Events concept. Atlantis Events has a 10-night cruise departing on July 5, 2026, operated by the Scarlet Lady ship, belonging to Richard Branson’s Virgin Voyages brand. The cruise is expected to have 1,900 guests, with 1,100 being from the United States.
The cruise is departing from Athens and ending in Venice, and it was supposed to make stops in Turkey, Greece, and Croatia, before ending in Italy. In the case of Turkey, planned stops included a July 7 visit to Kusadasi, and a July 8 visit to Istanbul. However, that’s no longer in the cards.
Turkish authorities have reportedly blocked this cruise from visiting Turkey at the last minute, citing “moral standards” and “family values,” claiming that the ship was chartered by groups “known for behaviors incompatible with the fabric of our society and our moral values.” Turkey has of course been becoming increasingly more conservative under Erdogan.
In place of these two ports, the ship will instead dock in Alexandria, Egypt, for a day, with tours to Cairo available. If you look at any sort of an equality index, Egypt ranks even lower than Turkey, so that’s not exactly ideal. I must also say, describing the port as “Cairo (Alexandria)” strikes me as taking quite some liberties — that’s like saying “Miami (Port Canaveral).” Anyway, there will also be a stop in the port town of Heraklion, Greece, on the island of Crete.
Rich Campbell, the CEO of Atlantis Events, stated that this is the first time in 36 years that the company has been “actively told we may not berth here because of who we are.”
My take on this unprecedented cruise ship “blocking”
To state the obvious, I’m not a fan of Erdogan, but ideologically, this is exactly what you’d expect from his administration.
Let me also say that while I’m gay, based on my understanding of these Atlantis Events cruises (and how they’re marketed), this just isn’t up my alley. I’m not saying that from some place of internalized homophobia, or anything, but instead, I’m just an introvert, and I don’t particularly enjoy “events” (whatever form they may come in — that includes sporting events, inaugural flights, etc.).
All that being said, this is indeed pretty unprecedented. Countries across the globe have different laws for all kinds of things, ranging from selling chewing gum, to same sex activity, to free speech. Virtually all countries don’t have laws against “being” gay, since you can’t arrest someone for what they’re thinking.
For more conservative countries, the laws are generally against same sex activity, the way one expresses themselves, etc. Even Saudi Arabia’s tourism webpage claims that LGBT visitors are welcome:
Are LGBT visitors welcome to visit Saudi Arabia?
Everyone is welcome to visit Saudi Arabia and visitors are not asked to disclose such personal details.
That brings me to my take here — obviously I strongly disagree with Turkey’s current administration and many of the country’s laws, but I’m kind of surprised this hasn’t come up before. Why? Well, if the cruise ship docks in Turkey and is no longer in international waters, is that essentially the equivalent of a “private venue” in that country?
For example, if the vibe on the ship’s decks were similar to what you’d find in the promotional video above, I can see how government officials (who also like to crack down on private gay venues) would argue that violates their standards.
To be clear, I strongly disagree with their “standards,” and the things they crack down on. However, if you’re going to have issues with this kind of activity on the ground, then it seems rather consistent to also have a similar approach when there’s a ship that you know will have a similar vibe.
Bottom line
An Atlantis Events cruise operated by Virgin Voyages is embarking on a journey shortly, which was supposed to stop in Turkey, Greece, and Croatia, before ending in Italy. However, authorities in Turkey have blocked the cruise, citing “moral standards” and “family values.”
Obviously I very much disagree with their standards, but if you’re a country cracking down on anything gay (including private venues, banning pride, etc.), then I am not surprised to see this happening, even though it’s the first time in 36 years that Atlantis Events has experienced something like this.
Are you surprised to see Turkey taking the unprecedented action of banning this Atlantis Events cruise?
Maybe if they dialed down the debauchery shown in the video it would help. Someone commented that "to not make it so obvious" is a quieter form of prejudice. With heterosexuality, typically you do not see that type of action shown in promotional video's for a cruise (maybe if it some kind of hormone crazed teen spring break event, which I am pretty sure would not fly in Turkey either), why is there such a...
Maybe if they dialed down the debauchery shown in the video it would help. Someone commented that "to not make it so obvious" is a quieter form of prejudice. With heterosexuality, typically you do not see that type of action shown in promotional video's for a cruise (maybe if it some kind of hormone crazed teen spring break event, which I am pretty sure would not fly in Turkey either), why is there such a need to show that much sexuality in public, is it to try and "prove" something? I don't know why it has to be so over the top.
Good for Turkiye!
lol I am sure lucky will write a post about his great turkish airlines experience next week
I always had VERY bad preconceptions of these cruises. But a few years ago, I was persuaded by a group of friends, to go on an Atlantis Cruise; from Barcelona to Istanbul. With stops that included Bodrum (Ephesus), in Turkey. Sure there were excesses onboard; but on a big ship, you can choose a more quieter and restful journey. I actually had a GREAT time! (Which I honestly thought I'd never say! LOL). I remembered...
I always had VERY bad preconceptions of these cruises. But a few years ago, I was persuaded by a group of friends, to go on an Atlantis Cruise; from Barcelona to Istanbul. With stops that included Bodrum (Ephesus), in Turkey. Sure there were excesses onboard; but on a big ship, you can choose a more quieter and restful journey. I actually had a GREAT time! (Which I honestly thought I'd never say! LOL). I remembered there was absolutely NO big deal docking, at both Bodrum and Istanbul. No fuss, no issues nor any "phobia" noticeable. (Had a great stay at the Four Seasons Istanbul afterwards). So; I am very surprised at this recent news.
To the idiot @Ricky..
The poster @GayAF is not suffering from 'self hate'. He has this thing called 'human dignity' and 'self respect'. You've probably not heard of these quaint concepts, I know.
The real problem is the timing. When they were planning the activity or the itinerary the Turkish authorities should have notified them about it unless the cruise line did not disclose the details. I think the article missed the fact that the cruise stopped there before. Also, I think people are quick to judge until their wallet is on the line. People say things like boycott this company and then when they are cheaper they will forget about it.
When first visiting Turkey 15 years ago, we were impressed that we were welcomed into Mosques, man and women. Women are not required to vail in society, it is their choice, unlike many middle eastern countries and Iran.
Turkey is up and coming, facing many challenges from east and west. For example recently they ordered a numerous amount of Boeing planes.
As some others have said which we agree, we need to respect...
When first visiting Turkey 15 years ago, we were impressed that we were welcomed into Mosques, man and women. Women are not required to vail in society, it is their choice, unlike many middle eastern countries and Iran.
Turkey is up and coming, facing many challenges from east and west. For example recently they ordered a numerous amount of Boeing planes.
As some others have said which we agree, we need to respect their country. They will evolve in their own time. We understand their turning away these crowds off ships.
Turkey is cool place.
I was on an RSVP (Holland America ship) cruise out of Barcelona years ago that was supposed to stop in Casablanca. Our ship was denied entry right before arrival.
I was on an Atlantis cruise in Europe (twice) and enjoyed it very much. It definitely did not have a sex party/drug fest that some of the Caribbean or Mexico trips have.
On one Atlantis cruise we were blocked from visiting Morocco. No surprise, but a big let down.
I think missing from this discussion is the fact that Atlantis has been going to Turkiye for years. They have been going without incident. I was on an Atlantis cruise in 2022 that stopped in Bodrum. Other than it being all men one wouldn’t have known anything was different than any other cruise (also the local gay bar suddenly became inundated during the middle of the day on a Wednesday). Last year I believe they...
I think missing from this discussion is the fact that Atlantis has been going to Turkiye for years. They have been going without incident. I was on an Atlantis cruise in 2022 that stopped in Bodrum. Other than it being all men one wouldn’t have known anything was different than any other cruise (also the local gay bar suddenly became inundated during the middle of the day on a Wednesday). Last year I believe they stopped in Ephesus and Istanbul.
This exclusion is based on Turkish politics not on anything passengers have done. The passengers are sophisticated and know that what might go on on the ship or in Europe is different in Turkiye or Egypt. And Ben the marketing is marketing. Their is a caribbean cruise that is very um circuit party forward. The Mediterranean cruises have parties but are an older more mature crowd of people that are actually interested in the ports
They probably shouldn't have made such a provocative video. This particular cruise just looks more "risque" than others. You're right that Virgin has been to Turkiye before. I've seen Virgin several times the past year in port from the balcony where I visit when in Kusadasi. They're hard to miss with that color scheme. But not all Virgin cruises are sold as gay oriented cruises. And this one is just screaming "sex, drugs, and rock...
They probably shouldn't have made such a provocative video. This particular cruise just looks more "risque" than others. You're right that Virgin has been to Turkiye before. I've seen Virgin several times the past year in port from the balcony where I visit when in Kusadasi. They're hard to miss with that color scheme. But not all Virgin cruises are sold as gay oriented cruises. And this one is just screaming "sex, drugs, and rock n' roll" from that video. Not every country has an Amsterdam. Maybe next time they might try a more low key approach and might also consider the sensitivities of the county they are hoping to visit.
Me and my husband visited Istanbul in 2011 to board a Holy Lands Cruise. I actually found a gay bar there
and they had male belly dancers doing shows.
Is this because of some freak religion thats making them do it?
Nah, just a bunch of very horny tourists.
Gays need to stop spending money in these shithole countries that hate us. Stop flying their airlines, staying at their hotels, and supporting the businesses owned by their petrochemical slush-funds.
In Turkey, traditional Ottoman bath houses are hammams, known as Turkish bath. However, in the western world, Turkish bath are known as the bath houses were homosexuals get involved in free-for-all sodomy. So it's obvious that Turkish government does not want to have that defiling association with Western culture.
I think that to find out which countries are friendly to homosexuals, look up the countries that allow ginormous homosexual orgies. And while doing that, why not bring pork-derived products to Muslim controled countries. That suddenly goes well together.
I'm pretty sure there were lots of "Queer for Palestine" folks onboard. Why not make a stop in Gaza instead?!
That's a great suggestion! I'm sure their support is most appreciated, and none of them would be beaten to death in the street or thrown from a roof.
I spend a lot of time in Turkiye including a lot of time in Istanbul and Kusadasi, probably more than anyone who has posted here. Looking at that promo video for the cruise, that is definitely not the type of crowd you see come off a cruise liner in Kusadasi. The people I see coming off the cruises and roaming around the shops in Kusadasi are just typical families on vacation. Families with kids, lots...
I spend a lot of time in Turkiye including a lot of time in Istanbul and Kusadasi, probably more than anyone who has posted here. Looking at that promo video for the cruise, that is definitely not the type of crowd you see come off a cruise liner in Kusadasi. The people I see coming off the cruises and roaming around the shops in Kusadasi are just typical families on vacation. Families with kids, lots of old couples. To me, they are marketing that video like some kind of gay bar atmosphere. Everyone is totally buff, partying like hell, and then who knows what's going on behind closed doors after all that. Compare that to the normal crowd I see coming off the ships and it's not even close. So, whether you like Mr. E or not, and I sure as hell don't, I can also understand knowing the area, culture, and typical cruise clientele they get, where they are coming from.
Good on Turkey!
You're too ugly to be gay.
Tell that to my beautiful wife (Sharon) of over 50 years and whom we raised three children (all married with children).
You're ugly on the inside, ORD, and that goes all the way to the bone. No pun intended.
Yeah, I am, and I enjoy it, and I have no qualms about making anyone else know about it.
Ben, what do you mean by “conservative” countries? Could you give some examples in addition to Turkey that would likely take such a drastic measure?
@ William -- If you're wondering what countries would take drastic action, it probably makes sense to look at something like the LGTB Equality Index:
https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index
Interesting “equality” index. It includes things that have nothing to do with equal treatment and instead measures support for legality of special privileges, such as insurance coverage for cosmetic procedures.
Big miss of this post was that the boat is now stopping in Egypt instead of Turkey. Egypt is by far less safe towards gay men than Turkey. You bring a boat load of gay guys to Egypt? WTF
Ben you completely just let this giant fact slide and didn’t address it.
@ BjornFree -- I think I addressed that in the post, no?
"If you look at any sort of an equality index, Egypt ranks even lower than Turkey, so that’s not exactly ideal."
If I was on a gay cruise and was expecting to stop in Turkey and got rerouted to Egypt I think I would be scared, angry, and some other adjectives.
Traveling as a gay person carries risks most straight people don’t appreciate.
I just am more interested in hearing your perspective than saying Egypt has a lower equality index. How would you feel about it?
Your bottom line take is that you disagree...
If I was on a gay cruise and was expecting to stop in Turkey and got rerouted to Egypt I think I would be scared, angry, and some other adjectives.
Traveling as a gay person carries risks most straight people don’t appreciate.
I just am more interested in hearing your perspective than saying Egypt has a lower equality index. How would you feel about it?
Your bottom line take is that you disagree with Turkeys standards. Ok. But how would you handle this? How would you feel?
Btw calling tout that you wouldn’t ever take an Atlantis cruise sounds a bit like virtue signaling. You’re not like those gays. That line was unnecessary.
The tour of Cairo is a nice option. I'd have taken advantage of it to do a quick pilgrimage to the church of Saints Sergius and Bacchus, the unofficial patron saints of gay men.
Same cruise has been to Egypt many times before. Türkiye as well. I think one of the Atlantis cruises went to both last year (if not last it was year before)
Some of these comments—even from LGBTQ people—reek of a quieter form of prejudice: the idea that "it's okay to be who you are, but why do you have to make it so obvious?" History has repeatedly shown that this kind of thinking devolves into more overt discrimination if it goes unchallenged.
It needs to be confronted at the point where organizations or governments hide behind vague appeals to "moral values" that are applied only to...
Some of these comments—even from LGBTQ people—reek of a quieter form of prejudice: the idea that "it's okay to be who you are, but why do you have to make it so obvious?" History has repeatedly shown that this kind of thinking devolves into more overt discrimination if it goes unchallenged.
It needs to be confronted at the point where organizations or governments hide behind vague appeals to "moral values" that are applied only to a minority group to justify unequal treatment.
Virgin Voyages markets itself as a party cruise line. I strongly suspect that if one of its regular cruises made the same port call, the government would have said nothing. The message—subtle, but unmistakable—is that a heterosexual party cruise is acceptable, but a gay-themed one somehow crosses the line.
That is unacceptable.
In this case, the only meaningful way I can register my objection is with my wallet. I will be avoiding the country.
If making it obvious means public display of promiscuity and debauchery then I'm against it.
Today's society is so quick to try and boycott something lol. It's okay for someone to have a different opinion or belief. You don't have to agree with it. That's part of what makes culture so unique. Accept it and move on. Y'all get so wrapped up in stories that it's no wonder most people are heavily medicated, caffeninated or walking around with an emotional support animal.
It’s the America syndrome. They want the world to be as uneducated, fat and uncultured, just like them.
Some of my American friends were bewildered to find out that I - a German - speak German at home.
The great irony here of course is that you’ve demonstrated your own extreme ignorance by referring to an entire society as “uneducated, fat and uncultured.” Perhaps this level of thinking has been underpinning the recent economic crises in Germany (which show no signs of abating).
72.4% of Americans are fat
71.3% of Americans do not have bachelor's degree
(google)
I think it was a pretty fair assessment
AfD support is at 28% in Germany.
Is it ironic? Does not seem like it based on education, health or quality of life rankings in OECD nations.
Also how is our economy anything to boast about with GDP growth under inflation rate and the cold job creation for this quarter? Most of the global problems have been created by our idiot order and his personal war.
*idiot leader
Emily, I think you need new American friends. Perhaps you attract the fat and uncultured section of America for some reason? What you describe is not at all my experience with Americans in Berlin.
just like all germans are naz*s, am I right? you sound insufferable
doubt you'd feel that way if a country didn't let you in for being brown, but you do you
Let's boycott Turkish Airlines, we don't like their morale values either!
2AM departure from Mykonos is too early. The gays would just be getting started.
Thank you, Ben, for correctly referring to it as “Turkey,” which is the actual name for that country in English (you know, in our language, not Turkish); please, everyone, do be sure to reject Erdogan’s authoritarianism. Wanna-be dictators like him attempt totalitarian control over people, including through language.
Rich. I thought the English were confined to their little island following the fall of their empire.
So is it Zimbabwe or Rhodesia?
Do you call it the Czech Republic or Czechia?
Siam or Thailand?
The point is that I’ll call other people’s countries by the names they use. It’s really that simple, Jennifer.
"I’ll call other people’s countries by the names they use"
Bet you don't. Do you make your Star Alliance connections in Deutschland or Germany? Do you summer in Italia or Italy? Sauna in Suomi or Finland?
In each of those cases, if you used the native name for the country in conversation with other English speakers you'd sound affected.
I think you're making the commenter's point. Thailand is not "Thailand" in Thai, it's (loosely) "Pratheṣhthịy". Thailand is the *English* for that country, as Turkey is the English for Turkiye.
Didn't know about these cruises but from the ad video it seems like a typical western gay culture, which sometimes can be very toxic and sex oriented. It is almost like sending a message to young people that if you are gay, you must be nearly naked with amazing body and constantly drinking alcohol and partying.... And sadly I do see this trend among the gays in the US and many divas. I am sure...
Didn't know about these cruises but from the ad video it seems like a typical western gay culture, which sometimes can be very toxic and sex oriented. It is almost like sending a message to young people that if you are gay, you must be nearly naked with amazing body and constantly drinking alcohol and partying.... And sadly I do see this trend among the gays in the US and many divas. I am sure there are a lot of gays who are not like the ones on this video but the Western media almost never feature them at all....
You were fortunate to only see the advert. I can't unsee the alcohol and drug-fuelled 'sox party'. On the deck, by the pool, on the cabin balconies etc. All in broad daylight with an active audience of hundreds of drunk and dancing party-goers. Literally hundreds(!) The clips came courtesy of OF 'content producers', which is the polite term for what used to be 'prawn stars'. No good ever came out of these 'themed' cruises. The...
You were fortunate to only see the advert. I can't unsee the alcohol and drug-fuelled 'sox party'. On the deck, by the pool, on the cabin balconies etc. All in broad daylight with an active audience of hundreds of drunk and dancing party-goers. Literally hundreds(!) The clips came courtesy of OF 'content producers', which is the polite term for what used to be 'prawn stars'. No good ever came out of these 'themed' cruises. The Romans had nothing on these guys. Enough said. I have to wash my eyes again.
Oh your poor eyes you went online looking for p orn and found it.
@Ken, self-hate is not good. And "Western media" and everywhere media has featured mostly beautiful people since its beginnings. You're focusing on the wrong things.
Didn't mean beautiful people. I meant the stereotyping gay lifestyles by the Western media, actually mostly the American media, and its effect on young kids growing up thinking about their identify and how to express it
It’s not “unprecedented”. The Caymans and Nevis have each blocked a gay cruise from docking before. Although the last instance was about 20 years ago.
Look, as a gay guy, let’s be real about these cruises: they are heavily centered around drugs and non-stop hookups. You can’t blame conservative societies for not wanting to embrace that as a moral standard—heck, a conservative American wouldn't want it in their town either.
We need to stop forcing our cultural norms on the rest of the world. Turkey has the right to decide what is morally acceptable on its own soil. If we...
Look, as a gay guy, let’s be real about these cruises: they are heavily centered around drugs and non-stop hookups. You can’t blame conservative societies for not wanting to embrace that as a moral standard—heck, a conservative American wouldn't want it in their town either.
We need to stop forcing our cultural norms on the rest of the world. Turkey has the right to decide what is morally acceptable on its own soil. If we don’t want people forcing their beliefs down our throats, we need to stop doing it to them.
@GayAF, self-hate is not good. Straight people can be as raunchy as gay people, no? Also consider that consensual same-sex relations are legal in Turkey so banning the cruise was just blatant discrimination.
This is not self hate, I also am against the public display of debauchery. I find this name calling very common amongst minority liberals. As a black guy man who doesn't agree with many things in the black and gay community I have been called all kinds of labels including self hate, internalized homophobia and anti black
It's not "self-hate" to comment that a lot of the depraved and debauched things that are seen and done by other gay men in public these days are revolting, and threaten the acceptance/tolerance that LGB activists spent decades of their lives working to build. If you want to parade around on a leash wearing a dog mask and a butt-plug tail, do it at home or at the club. Nobody wants to see that at...
It's not "self-hate" to comment that a lot of the depraved and debauched things that are seen and done by other gay men in public these days are revolting, and threaten the acceptance/tolerance that LGB activists spent decades of their lives working to build. If you want to parade around on a leash wearing a dog mask and a butt-plug tail, do it at home or at the club. Nobody wants to see that at a public Pride march. Lots of these guys have totally lost their dignity - it's not "liberated" to post an OF video of yourself taking 25 anonymous loads on a Sunday. If anything, it's that behaviour which betrays a deep sense of self-loathing and worthlessness. No human with a healthy, diflgnified identity behaves like that.
I’ve had several friends go on an Atlantis cruise. Based on their reports, there is certainly an element of what you describe, but it is not the majority. The Caribbean cruises are more likely to be the party boats, but much less so the other destinations. For the most part, it’s a bunch of balding middle aged men with bellies who just want to have a nice time, meet people and see the world.
is there a term for a gay uncle tom?
I have to applaud Ben for his objective reporting, I didn't expect such neutrality (though maybe I should have).
I agree that it is unthincable to deny people based on their sexual prefferrences in the first world, however I can understand that the "cruise factor" combined with a less than tollerant country would lead to this. This is a country where Pride Parades are factually forbidden, and a ship full of LGBTQ+ would come darn close to that.
Local businesses, guides, restaurants, port workers, and communities in Turkey will lose the tourism revenue Atlantis' guests would have brought, but responsibility for that loss lies with the officials who chose exclusion over tourism. Atlantis should not return to Turkish ports while LGBTQ+ guests can be denied entry because of who they are. This is not a boycott of the Turkish people, but is a refusal to reward official discrimination. Atlantis' passengers should travel where...
Local businesses, guides, restaurants, port workers, and communities in Turkey will lose the tourism revenue Atlantis' guests would have brought, but responsibility for that loss lies with the officials who chose exclusion over tourism. Atlantis should not return to Turkish ports while LGBTQ+ guests can be denied entry because of who they are. This is not a boycott of the Turkish people, but is a refusal to reward official discrimination. Atlantis' passengers should travel where they are welcomed with dignity, safety, and equal respect, the same treatment any Turkish traveler would rightly expect abroad.
CJ, please be advised against judging other cultures and values as you do your own. It displays a lack of understanding of the reality of the mindset of some.
Rather than condemning the Turkish authorities, try to understand that perhaps they are preventing a potentially serious incident from occurring. Sometimes what looks to be the wrong decision might well prove to have been the wisest choice.
Your argument mistakes appeasement for prudence. If the concern was a possible “serious incident”, the proper response is protection and lawful management.
I contend that it could be your lack of prudence in a situation such as this which could lead to a profound but preventable “serious incident”. Furthermore, believing in a “Proper response” for “Protection” from a suspect “Lawful management”, is a serious mistake CJ.
If dissenters of Turkiye's right to exclude only knew what goes on in FULL PUBLIC VIEW during some of these 'cruises', they'd quickly rethink their stance. I'm no prude, but it ain't pretty. So spare a thought for the underpaid and overworked Filipino cleaners and onboard medical staff. Come to think of it, spare a thought for the entire crew who have to witness......everything. Pattaya is like an Amish Sunday School compared to this. I'd...
If dissenters of Turkiye's right to exclude only knew what goes on in FULL PUBLIC VIEW during some of these 'cruises', they'd quickly rethink their stance. I'm no prude, but it ain't pretty. So spare a thought for the underpaid and overworked Filipino cleaners and onboard medical staff. Come to think of it, spare a thought for the entire crew who have to witness......everything. Pattaya is like an Amish Sunday School compared to this. I'd post to a link to some uncensored clips of previous cruises...but I'm pretty sure there's a rule in this blog against posting 'prawn'......But hey, 'Google' exists on your browser for a reason.
On the other hand…..
https://x.com/drhossamsamy65/status/2058288821536465301?s=46
The very same people with such mindset move en mass to the west, so please don’t be surprised if they ban in a few years everything incompatible with the fabric of their society and their moral values.
On this website, knowing many of the contributors are not heterosexual, this subject is difficult to address, sensitively. Suffice it to say that I am not surprised by the attitude taken by the Turkish authorities. The potential for something to go disastrously wrong cannot be overstated.
I am however a little surprised that the cruise organisers attempted to visit Turkey, a country which is apparently moving more towards Islamic than Western traditions of late. The...
On this website, knowing many of the contributors are not heterosexual, this subject is difficult to address, sensitively. Suffice it to say that I am not surprised by the attitude taken by the Turkish authorities. The potential for something to go disastrously wrong cannot be overstated.
I am however a little surprised that the cruise organisers attempted to visit Turkey, a country which is apparently moving more towards Islamic than Western traditions of late. The same might well be said about Egypt too of course.
Having such large numbers of U.S. citizens disembarking and openly displaying their preferences at this time, might not be best advised. No, the Turkish authorities might well be blessed with foresight rather than prejudice.
Honestly, Istanbul has a thriving gay community that the Sultan Erdogan is trying to stamp out. The city majority hasn’t ever supported him. Don’t paint the country as if it was Texas or Florida, it’s remarkably liberal in the big cities. Countryside is another issue, much like the US.
But Turkish Airlines is rated 5 stars here!
@ Julie -- I don't give airlines star ratings, just specific flight experiences. And my ratings are based on the quality of the experience, rather than the extent to which the airlines align with my own political beliefs. Those are conclusions people can draw for themselves. Otherwise I'd rate Air New Zealand and Norwegian economy five stars, and that doesn't seem very useful.
I was ticked off that Turkish censored the word "gay" in a movie on their IFE.
Turkey is gone, next Afghanistan.
Patti Lupone is on that ship !! They are just hypocrites and for that last 40 years have wanted to join the EU. Not even in Europe. Instead of just blocking it, the government has made homophobic and anti lgbtq comments.
Seems like a nonissue. Turkey exercised rights on who to admit within its border. May not be in agreement with one’s personal views, but the majority Turkish who support Erdogan and the Turkish government care little what outsiders think, and rightfully so. The only thing that seems unusual is how late into the planned voyage the Turkish constrain revoke the approval to dock.
Furthermore, I’m pretty sure the Turkish economy can sustain missing out on...
Seems like a nonissue. Turkey exercised rights on who to admit within its border. May not be in agreement with one’s personal views, but the majority Turkish who support Erdogan and the Turkish government care little what outsiders think, and rightfully so. The only thing that seems unusual is how late into the planned voyage the Turkish constrain revoke the approval to dock.
Furthermore, I’m pretty sure the Turkish economy can sustain missing out on one booze cruise.
The issue is referring to LGBTQ as immoral etc. MAGA would also support this, as do you. The sooner mango Mussolini has a myocardial infarction the better.
I’m gay, but thanks for playing.
If Türkiye does not allow us to visit, then we won’t.
Governments set their own rules. The citizens of the country may question, but visitors must either respect or not visit. Similarly, visitors who come to the US must respect our laws and rules.
Not sure where I mention support for MAGA. Seems like you are one of those far left liberals who give us a bad rap.
Not sure what I find more comical, your rad left liberal prejudice or the fact then I’m gay.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the whole world doesn’t have to see eye to eye. The sooner we Americans realise that, the sooner we can start focusing on our problems. It’s up to the people of Türkiye to decide how they want to react to such positions. If I have a problem with that, then...
Not sure what I find more comical, your rad left liberal prejudice or the fact then I’m gay.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the whole world doesn’t have to see eye to eye. The sooner we Americans realise that, the sooner we can start focusing on our problems. It’s up to the people of Türkiye to decide how they want to react to such positions. If I have a problem with that, then I should exercise my right to abstain from travelling there.
Thanks for your response Vladimir Lenin.
I’m gay but thanks for playing, Vladimir.
@DCharlie
Just create an account dude instead of writing the same thing three times.
You do realize that line of thinking could have also been applied in the 1930’s to fascist regimes in Europe, in the 1970’s to Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime, in the early 1980’s to the dictatorship in Argentina or to North Korea today. Basic human rights, especially for marginalized groups, should be universal. And, turning a blind eye or throwing out hackneyed epithets just serves to embolden factions worldwide to push discriminatory boundaries further...
You do realize that line of thinking could have also been applied in the 1930’s to fascist regimes in Europe, in the 1970’s to Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime, in the early 1980’s to the dictatorship in Argentina or to North Korea today. Basic human rights, especially for marginalized groups, should be universal. And, turning a blind eye or throwing out hackneyed epithets just serves to embolden factions worldwide to push discriminatory boundaries further and further. It is not okay what Turkey did.
Picking Alexandria over Ashdod is just bonkers, considering that Turkey is a gay paradise compared to Egypt.
My social battery wouldn’t last half a day on an Atlantis cruise, but I’ve heard very good things from people who have gone.
Egypt is certainly an odd choice for a replacement port from a perspective of guest safety and comfort. In addition, as roughly the midway point in the voyage, the ship was likely due to receive supplies and/or fuel at Istanbul. If so, Türkiye is missing out on hundreds of thousands in additional revenue on top of not having visitors ashore.
Very unlikely that they would select Istanbul as place for receiving supplies or fuel. Everything is so much easier in EU. Athens, Barcelona etc have very well working infrastructure for those.
Also having Cairo/Alexandria is quite normal, as is Berlin/Rostock etc. There are often excursions to interesting places, that might require several hours of sitting in the bus.
Fair enough on the fuel and supplies, but my point re Egypt is they aren’t exactly champions of gay rights either.