Southwest Airlines can’t seem to stay out of the news lately when it comes to concerning safety incidents. A couple of days ago I first wrote about yet another near catastrophe, which might just be the scariest one we’ve seen so far. I wanted to provide an update, as I just saw an interesting analysis of what may have caused this, and it’s kind of shocking.
In this post:
Southwest 737 MAX has near disaster on approach to Tampa
This incident happened on Sunday, July 14, 2024, and involves Southwest Airlines flight WN425, scheduled to fly from Columbus (CMH) to Tampa (TPA). The flight was operated by a less than one-year-old Boeing 737 MAX 8 with the registration code N8841L.
The flight was scheduled to depart at 4PM and arrive at 6:10PM. The plane took off roughly on schedule, at 4:15PM, and most of the flight was routine, though it took a bit longer than usual due to weather enroute, as the plane made several detours.
On top of that, weather conditions in Tampa weren’t great that day, with rain and strong gusts, so it was a tricky approach.
Around 2hr50min after departure, the plane was on approach to runway 10 at Tampa Airport (it’s worth noting that this runway is rarely used by commercial aircraft, but in this case it was the best runway due to the weather conditions). As the plane was coming in over Tampa Bay, while around four miles from the runway, it descended as low as 150 feet, according to ADS-B data.
Let’s not mince words here — that’s terrifying, and seconds from disaster. For context, that altitude is just a bit more than the 737’s wingspan. That also doesn’t factor in that the plane was coming in right over the Courtney Campbell Causeway, which is elevated above the water.
Worst of all, the pilots didn’t even seem to realize what was going on. Instead, they only increased altitude again after an air traffic controller warned them about a low altitude alert. Here’s how that interaction went at first:
ATC: “Southwest 425, low altitude alert, check your altitude. Tampa’s altimeter is 30.14.”
Pilot: “30.14, thank you, Southwest 425.”
The pilots sure sound calm, for better or worse. The Southwest plane then started to slowly gain altitude again. Then the conversation continued as follows:
ATC: “Southwest 425, you plan to go around?”
Pilot: “Yeah, we are, we have to go, Southwest 425.”
ATC: “Southwest 425, roger, cancel approach clearance, go around runway 10. For now you can fly runway heading and climb and maintain 1,600.”
After this incident, the jet ended up diverting to Fort Lauderdale (FLL), where the weather was better. There were several other diversions that day. The plane landed safely in Fort Lauderdale at 7:45PM, after 3hr30min in the air.
Below you can see a depiction of what happened, plus you can hear the ATC audio. Thanks to “You can see ATC” for discovering this incident in the first place.
The plane on approach immediately ahead of this was also a Southwest 737. When that plane was four miles out, it was at an altitude of 1,300 feet, so that gives you a sense of just how far off 150 feet is. The crew of that flight was asked by air traffic control to report on weather conditions, and stated the following:
“Actually three miles in was moderate rain and just a light chop. The bad stuff is probably 5, 6, 7 miles out with that gust.”
How could this Southwest Tampa incident happen?
We’ve seen a slew of Southwest incidents recently, though I have to say, this one seems like it was the closest to being a disaster. The plane was 150 feet above the bay, and that doesn’t even account for the bridge that’s elevated above the water.
First and foremost, the air traffic controller here deserves massive kudos. This could have had a very different outcome, and he might have just saved a lot of lives that day. I know air traffic controllers have stressful jobs, but credit to this guy for his performance and timing. If he had waited a few more seconds, this could have had a different outcome.
At first, one theory had been that the pilots had the altimeter set incorrectly. For those not familiar with the altimeter, this is the instrument that measures the altitude a plane is at. The catch is that the altimeter always has to be set to local settings, based on the conditions in a place. However, unless the altimeter was on a completely wrong setting, that wouldn’t explain more than a couple hundred feet of altitude difference. So there must be more to this…
That brings us to what might just be the most likely explanation as of now. The excellent YouTube channel “blancolirio” (run by an airline pilot) has an analysis of the incident, and presents an interesting theory (around seven minutes into the video).
Based on analyzing the data and downloading it into Google Earth, it sure looks like the pilots may have mistaken the Courtney Campbell Causeway for the runway, so they were seconds from trying to land on a bridge, miles from the runway.
Of course this completely defies logic. One has to wonder how two airline pilots could make such a mistake, when it should be obvious that this wasn’t the runway. Then again, there’s not any other logical explanation for why pilots would be flying a plane down to 150 feet, while several miles from the runway. We’ll see what the investigation reveals, but based on the plane’s altitude and heading, it’s hard to imagine that this wasn’t the case…
Does Southwest have an issue with its safety culture?
It’s kind of unbelievable how many close calls Southwest planes have had lately. Just in recent months, we’ve seen a scary go around in Hawaii, a dangerously low approach in Oklahoma City, an inflight Dutch roll, and taking off from a closed runway. And those are just several of the incidents that have been reported.
This incident in Tampa sure seems eerily similar to the Oklahoma City incident, where the plane descended to a dangerously low altitude several miles from the runway.
Is this just bad luck, or does Southwest have a problem? Admittedly Southwest is a huge airline, and operates a lot of flights each day. However, a disproportionate number of the recent incidents involving pilot error are at Southwest.
Just about all US airlines have more junior cockpits than they did before the pandemic, given how many new pilots have been hired. However, what’s specifically going on at Southwest that’s causing this? It’s beyond my pay grade, but at this point I think it’s hard to fully chalk this up to a coincidence.
For all the increased oversight that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has over United Airlines for safety issues, maybe it’s time for the government to look at Southwest’s situation with pilots…
Bottom line
A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 MAX had a pretty wild approach to Tampa Airport. Weather conditions weren’t great, and for whatever reason, the plane descended down to 150 feet around four miles from the runway. Fortunately the air traffic controller received a low altitude alert and warned the crew, at which point they initiated a go around.
An investigation has now been opened into what happened. It would appear that the most likely explanation is that the pilots had mistaken the bridge for the runway. It’s shocking that this is an error they could make, but it makes more sense than any other theory.
What do you make of this latest Southwest incident?
I am a retired airline captain with many thousand hours in the B737.
Most Legacy air carriers tune in the ILS (Instrument Landing System) frequency for the landing runway. That gives us guidance and vertical clearance for that particular runway. If we make major deviations from the approach, we receive both verbal and visual warnings. In every FAR Part 121 airplane there is a GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System). That too gives us verbal...
I am a retired airline captain with many thousand hours in the B737.
Most Legacy air carriers tune in the ILS (Instrument Landing System) frequency for the landing runway. That gives us guidance and vertical clearance for that particular runway. If we make major deviations from the approach, we receive both verbal and visual warnings. In every FAR Part 121 airplane there is a GPWS (Ground Proximity Warning System). That too gives us verbal and visual warnings if we are too low, etc. We also set our altitude that we want to hold or go to on our Flight Management System which can be connected to our auto pilot system. That too gives us audio and visual warnings.
For this crew to be so screwed up that they were off course and all over the sky up and down, something was very wrong. I suspect they were disoriented not knowing where they were. They obviously lacked situational awareness of where they were up, down or course wise.
The warning signals from the Altitude Hold FMS, ILS, or GPWS are loud and LOUDER. The ONLY way that they can be ignored or not heard is by disabling those systems. For normal operations, disabling the GPWS is a flight violation. The GPWS control panel is safety wired. If that wire is broken, there is a mandatory maintenance write up explaining why. Regardless of what in the hell was going on in the cockpit of this airplane, it is clear that this crew ignored / disabled ALL of these warning devices. For that reason alone, they should be terminated.
As a former union representative with 22,000 hours of accident free flying time, I do not make this statement lightly. This near disaster took place with INTENT. Both pilots are responsible for the safety of the passengers and crew. If they were lost, then say so. If they had a problem with the airplane then say so. To my knowledge none of this took place. I am familiar with this airline and it appears that they foster a cowboy mentality by cutting corners to save time and money which almost always compromises safety. Ref. this airline had a similar near mishap while making an approach into Honolulu. Folks, two near misses with disaster is not a coincidence.
Good analysis Dan. SWA says their working with the FAA to determine what went wrong. Huh? Herb Kelleher would have fired them right after they landed in Fort Lauderdale.
It's a company and work ethic issues that are the problem. Pilots have about the best working conditions in the universe; they make a more than comfortable income even with their working hours capped at ~1000 hr/yr.\
They ARE BEING PAID TO BE PAID 110% alert when they are in the cockpit and to have continuous self re-education when on the ground.... and they have have tons of time to do this in hotel...
It's a company and work ethic issues that are the problem. Pilots have about the best working conditions in the universe; they make a more than comfortable income even with their working hours capped at ~1000 hr/yr.\
They ARE BEING PAID TO BE PAID 110% alert when they are in the cockpit and to have continuous self re-education when on the ground.... and they have have tons of time to do this in hotel rooms on layovers etc.
A lot of Gen Z'ers are a selfish bunch who have poor work ethics and unrealistic expectations on "entitlements". If the captain is flying the plane, it's up to the first officer to be totally alert on the rest of the logistics and questioning (situational awareness) what is going on, particularly during bad weather landing .... instead of sitting back being scared and "going for the ride". Many, many an aircraft accident caused by pilot error was because of poor cockpit communications between the pilots, particularly on decision making prrocess and having clear consensus on actions in the cockpit.
Haven't we learned from the past?
It’s so funny how blame always refocuses on the younger generation. I remember when people were shaking their fist at the clouds talking about how millennials like me were entitled participation trophy kids with bad work ethic and unrealistic plans. Looks like now it rolled off of us onto the kids of today.
I’m deeply confused by how all these incidents are happening with no reports from the passengers afterward. Is everyone that zombied out and unaware of their surroundings nowadays? Not even looking out the window when something feels weird? It just seems hard to imagine you don’t notice suddenly flying very near the ground then climbing again and landing somewhere else. Thanks for the write up.
How did the airline get the passengers from Fort Lauderdale to Tampa? and what compensation did they get?
That’s why you couldn’t pay me to fly Southwest Airlines.
Were they configured for landing or still in the clean configuration?
My god SWA has MAJOR ISSUES it seems! Maybe time to fly ANOTHER AIRLINE!! Plus they can KEEP THEIR MAX!!
WHY are YOU YELLING?!!
I would agree with your explanation. It was as though the causeway was calling to the pilots..."land here". The "RA" (radio altitude), which provides actual height above terrain, water or land, would have also been telling them (audibly and visually), regardless of the altimeter setting, how low they were. I'm afraid the crew thought they were right where they were supposed to be. I've never landed on 10, so I don't recall the approach plates...
I would agree with your explanation. It was as though the causeway was calling to the pilots..."land here". The "RA" (radio altitude), which provides actual height above terrain, water or land, would have also been telling them (audibly and visually), regardless of the altimeter setting, how low they were. I'm afraid the crew thought they were right where they were supposed to be. I've never landed on 10, so I don't recall the approach plates available for further guidance. The controller probably saved the day. "For the grace of Good, there go I"
avherald
ADS-B data suggest the aircraft descended to about 370 feet AGL/MSL, about 150 feet measured to standard pressure (which puts the aircraft 220 feet higher than the transponder suggests due to ambient pressure at 30.14 in/Hg), about 4.2nm before the runway threshold before going around.
@ Ben... Olive and DEI are either Trolls, idiots or racist. Or probably all three.
I’m not sure why you posted that. Sad.
Can you clarify that it wasn’t 150 feet? With 30.14, it would need to be adjusted to 370 feet.
Sure is funny that southwest is the only airline having issues with flying. Guess this happens when you hire second and third rate pilots.
Were the pilots distracted?
Don’t expect the NTSB to help the managing director’s husband is a SWA captain!
737 MAX again - you're still on my banned list - will never fly one. If I ever encounter an equipment swap to a 737 MAX, I'm walking back up the jet bridge !
This sounds more like a pilot error than anything having to do with the equipment.
What an idiotic comment about "737 Max" again. It still takes skilled pilot to get a plane off the ground and then land them. Even with all the automation in the world, the procedures during takeoff and landing are done with autopilot disengaged.
This is clearly pilot error and lackadaisicle or incompetent pilots. Didn't they do any pre-flight briefing knowning very well they were flying to bad weather and shouldn't they have triple scoured approaches...
What an idiotic comment about "737 Max" again. It still takes skilled pilot to get a plane off the ground and then land them. Even with all the automation in the world, the procedures during takeoff and landing are done with autopilot disengaged.
This is clearly pilot error and lackadaisicle or incompetent pilots. Didn't they do any pre-flight briefing knowning very well they were flying to bad weather and shouldn't they have triple scoured approaches to aiport etc.....
The facts are we have had the safest years in aviation history prior to covid. We are now forcing highly trained and qualified pilots to retire while replacing the with less qualified pilots and in a lot if cases very minimal qualifications. The unions padded the politicians pockets not to raise the retirement age the companies love it because they can charge the same whole paying less. In the end the public will pay the price
Those older pilots still would've had to go in short order, whether the age was raised by 5 years or not.
If that was the sole (or even just primary) reason for the current issues we're seeing, then it only means we'd have to face them in 2029 instead of 2024. Hardly a solution.
It's way deeper than that.
Hate to say it, but the "Warrior Spirit" is gone as long as the old guard is at the helm. Overpaid and complacent employees and culture, also related to their recent financial woes.
Maybe pilots need alcohol/drug tested before each flight…just a thought.
its being reported they missed a condo building before the bridge. SWA pilot friends are telling me they have a software problem for RNAV approaches which this was to runway 10.
its time for the FAA to step in. You can thank ATC for not crashing a perfectly good plane. Remember Lion Air did this into Bali.
In house education and flight simulator time for all pilots. The more adept they are. And prepared to avoid preventable negative outcomes.
They do this and have been for years.
That’s very concerning. I read about the Hawaii incident last month, too. Thank goodness for the air traffic controller.
2nd Southwest pilot in 2 months who thinks flying under bad weather is a good plan.
Wouldn’t they have had a GPWS/RA alert at that altitude?
RA is not for terrain. Most likely they had the gear down and flaps near the final setting. If so, as long as the descent rate wasn't excessive there would be no warning. My guess is the autopilot was off since VNAV would have flown a nice descent. Even disconnected there would have been flight director commands to bring the nose up.
Racists incoming in 3....2....
No racist comments but you just couldn’t resist trying to make it go there.
"Racists incoming in 3....2...."
They started long before you posted this, sadly. The RWNJ's leader has given them permission to wear their racism on their sleeves. Sad.
Notice how 99% of "near misses" being reported are here in the U.S and not overseas, yet the last dozen+ hull losses on commercial aircraft all happened overseas.
Supports my theory that this is normal everywhere, and always has been... the difference being the publicity and public interest in the last few years within the U.S. (particularly since everyone loves to politicize it all).
Heck, I wouldn't have even tagged the other days LAX incident...
Notice how 99% of "near misses" being reported are here in the U.S and not overseas, yet the last dozen+ hull losses on commercial aircraft all happened overseas.
Supports my theory that this is normal everywhere, and always has been... the difference being the publicity and public interest in the last few years within the U.S. (particularly since everyone loves to politicize it all).
Heck, I wouldn't have even tagged the other days LAX incident as a "significant event"... albeit since it made the news, it suddenly was.
FR24 already discloses its displayed altitudes are standard atmosphere setting (29.92). So when the actual setting is 30.14, we're talking about 250 feet should be added, so the plane's lowest point is actually 400 feet.
Insane that it was that low, considering runway 10 is right after the Bean Parkway which is probably 50 feet in height which traffic uses to get to the terminals. No excuse to be that low. Seems they weren't even set up properly with runway 10, seems to be to the side almost where the terminals are.
I’m confused - the Courtney Campbell is a road that goes from TPA due west to Clearwater - there is no reason for a plane landing in Tampa to fly over Courtney Campbell - correction needed in OP
Due to winds there is Rwy 10 thatlines up with the CC which may have looked like a runway coming through bad weather.
https://youtu.be/sZsQOvOL9zY?si=C0XV-KoTHhlNS6mu
I thought the same thing as I have lived in Tampa for 17 years and fly all the time. I've never landed on runway 10 and didn't even know that was an option. Most of the time we approach from the south and land facing north but occasionally we land facing south. Never landed coming in from the west heading east. It sounds like they were higher than 150 feet but ATC saved the day...
I thought the same thing as I have lived in Tampa for 17 years and fly all the time. I've never landed on runway 10 and didn't even know that was an option. Most of the time we approach from the south and land facing north but occasionally we land facing south. Never landed coming in from the west heading east. It sounds like they were higher than 150 feet but ATC saved the day as there are some fairly tall buildings that they would have flown over at the end of the Courtney Campbell causeway before they got to the airport.
Seems like the altimeter setting should be automated, with gps accuracy the plane should be able to tell its altitude
GPS altitude is notoriously unreliable. No licensed pilot (and I am one) would ever use it. I have never flown a plane equipped with a radar altimeter so I don’t know if that would have been a potential save here, but GPS is never used as the primary source of altitude data.
Yeah.. Great question; Why aren’t local altimeter settings auto-entered by computers in 2024 ?
Did we ever find out what caused the dutch roll one? Was it pilot error or a plane issue?
This one is awful. For any pilots here, does the "Low altitude, pull up!" warning only work if the altimeter is set correctly? Or is there some sort of backup there if the pilots forgot to adjust it? I wonder if there would be a way to link data communication text messages to a cockpit...
Did we ever find out what caused the dutch roll one? Was it pilot error or a plane issue?
This one is awful. For any pilots here, does the "Low altitude, pull up!" warning only work if the altimeter is set correctly? Or is there some sort of backup there if the pilots forgot to adjust it? I wonder if there would be a way to link data communication text messages to a cockpit warning, e.g. a METAR ATIS not lining up with the plane ATIS leads to a warning on the flight displays. Just spitballing as someone with 0 flights hours!
Yes. The plane was damaged on the ground at MSY overnight the week before the incident due to high winds. Had nothing to do with the pilots. The plane is back in service now.
https://apnews.com/article/southwest-airlines-dutch-roll-ntsb-fc0883c8a42270fcee9699b0fe231668
Great article Ben. Some of your compatriots wrote fluff articles that had no depth or details, and their lacked any reasonable ability for a reader to follow the chain of events. Thanks for nailing this one!
Fun fact, ValuJet merged into AirTran, which then merged into Southwest. ValuJet had a terrible safety record and the FAA was considering grounding the airline before it was merged into AirTran.
ValuJet and AirTran merged in 1997, and then Airtran and Southwest merged in 2011. It's pretty unlikely this (or any of Southwest's other recent problems) are related to an airline that ceased to exist 27 years ago, and is two mergers removed.
And Boeing merged with Macdonnell Douglas in 1997 and incorporated all their shortcomings and safety hazards, which only came to light a few years ago with the 737 Max.
There are some super yachts that have mast heights way above 150 feet. Yikes.
Can we trust the ADS-B data on this one?
Not a pilot, but wouldn’t a wrongly set altimeter also distort the planes ADS-B?
So only true radar data from ATC (which is also not perfect) could give out the real altitude?
All ADS-B data is pressure altitude, so moving the cockpit altimeter setting will not affect ADS-B data.
DEI will cause deaths.
100% - it’s going to lead to people losing their lives in an avoidable accident some point . Scary stuff
@ Oliver @ DEI -- I'm curious, do you have any reason to believe that this had anything to do with DEI? Any reason at all? Or are you just racist?
They are racist
It is not ok for racists to straight out say racist thing theae days. They need to be politically correct.
They are weak wimpy racist hidding in their parents basement or in Russia.
Unfortunate comment. DEI is something that should be scrutinized, along with everything else in an attempt to fix what is becoming a pattern of serious safety issues. Nothing should be off the table.
Actually the concept of DEI is fundamentally racist, if you think about it for a second.
@Ben maybe you could just have some auto-scan on your site for "DEI" and just autodelete/ban. Would make OMAAT a much nicer place.
DEI also includes women. It’s not just about race. When your hiring processes are based on checking boxes and not based on merit, you deserve to criticized. Lives are at risk. This isn’t McDonalds folks.
Very true! DEI is fine so long as the requirements for any given positions don’t lessen purely to meet a metric!
Yes, no male pilot has ever made
a mistake. Hahahaha
@Oliver: were you dropped on your head as an infant?
Troll alert.
Did you mean to say “DUI will cause deaths”? Because then I totally agree with you.
I think we all know that it's not flying Delta that causes deaths.
@Oliver Keep your racist thoughts to yourself. We are talking about travel on this site, not paranoid beliefs.
Most Olivers are NTB (not to bright).
Neither are you. Can’t even spell correctly…
IMO DEI itself is racist, as it uses race/color of one's skin as a determination in hiring instead of demonstrated ability. As MLK said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." DEI does the opposite.
This DEI stuff is out of control, I’m retired 40 year airline pilot and I have flown with pilots of all races and all them performed splendidly with no discernible difference in performance based on race. Have you never heard of the Tuskegee Airmen? One of the reasons your writting in English and not German is because of those excellent and brave pilots! Really, you need to become more educated.
Haha too bad... both pilots are white. Maybe the industry should open up to more qualified DEIs instead of gatekeeping it to be so white?
This isn’t the same Southwest Max 8 that flew at 400ft in Hawaii back in April is it?
No, that was N8788L. Very good question and it prompted me to look it up. That would have been quite the shock if it was the same aircraft.
That was the thing when I listen to the ATC broadcast. The pilot seem to be clueless to the fact that he was so low. Luckily the controller kept his cool and got the pilot to go round.
Definite kudos to that air traffic controller, one of the most stressful jobs out there.
Please correct barometric altitude for pressure before jumping to scary conclusions as to its height.
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/understanding-altitude-on-flightradar24/#:~:text=This%20is%20essentially%20a%20localised,ground%20can%20sometimes%20appear%20unrealistic.
Even corrected, it's scary.
amen.
What's worse is that Southwest has a reputation for being safe because there's a lot of ex-military flying for them. It's clear that this is not an indicator of safety.