Well, I’ve gotta be honest, this wasn’t on my airline partnership bingo card…
In this post:
Delta & Riyadh Air unveil strategic cooperation plans
Delta and Riyadh Air have signed a strategic cooperation memorandum of understanding, with the goal of introducing a broad range of benefits for customers traveling between North America, Saudi Arabia, and beyond. As a reminder, Riyadh Air is Saudi Arabia’s ambitious new airline startup, which plans to launch flights in 2025.
Since Riyadh Air is potentially still a year or so from launching, exact details of the partnership still have to be ironed out. However, the companies state that the long term goal is for this partnership to include an interline and codeshare agreement, and for the companies to collaborate on loyalty, customer experience, digital transformation, and broader aviation services, like ground handling and training.
Furthermore, Delta plans to launch flights between the United States and Riyadh. However, there are no details yet beyond that, and I imagine that won’t happen in the next year (and I question if it will ever happen).
The airlines are even planning to explore the possibility of a joint venture in the future, which would allow the carriers to coordinate fares, schedules, and more. With this new partnership, Delta will be Riyadh Air’s exclusive partner in North America, while Riyadh Air will be Delta’s exclusive partner in Riyadh and beyond. Those seem like pretty uneven terms, as Riyadh Air can’t even have a partnership in Canada, while Delta can have a partnership… literally everywhere other than Riyadh.
Here’s how Delta CEO Ed Bastian describes this new partnership:
“This partnership with Riyadh Air will further Delta’s mission of connecting the world and open an array of new choices, benefits and destinations for our customers traveling to and from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Most importantly, Riyadh Air shares Delta’s commitment to providing an elevated customer experience, which is why we’re looking forward to building and expanding this partnership in the months and years ahead. We appreciate the opportunity to work with the Riyadh Air team and the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia as they transform the transportation economy in the Kingdom.”
“It’s fitting that Riyadh Air will begin its journey the same year that Delta launches our second century of flight. We’ll have many opportunities to learn from each other and become better airlines for our mutual customers, our employees, our investors and our communities as we fly forward together.”
Meanwhile here’s how Riyadh Air CEO Tony Douglas describes this partnership:
“We look forward to enjoying a very warm and productive relationship with Delta Air Lines, one of the largest and most successful airlines in the world. Riyadh Air and Delta Air Lines share common goals and pursue the highest standards in many areas including guest experience, loyalty, and sustainability, built upon great networks and strong connectivity.”
I’m surprised by the Delta & Riyadh Air partnership
I’ve gotta say, this is an announcement I wasn’t expecting to see. Now, I’ve long said that Delta needs another partner in the Middle East in order to provide connectivity to the Indian subcontinent (well, other than Saudia, which is an airline that many people avoid).
I recently wrote about how I thought a partnership between Delta and Etihad would make sense, given the competitive landscape. That’s especially true with American having a close partnership with Qatar Airways, and United having a close partnership with Emirates.
However, I can’t say that I was expecting to see such an announcement between Delta and Riyadh Air. For one, Riyadh Air is still a year or so from even launching its first flight, and that’s probably best case scenario. It will be years before Riyadh Air’s network is scaled to the point that it’s materially useful for connecting traffic.
Speaking of connecting traffic, executives at Riyadh Air have emphasized that unlike Gulf rivals, the airline won’t primarily be about providing connectivity between other points around the globe, but rather is about serving the Riyadh market.
So if Delta’s goal is to increase service to the region in general, I question how long it will be before there’s significant upside here.
I suppose that a Delta partnership with Riyadh Air doesn’t preclude a partnership with another Gulf carrier, like Etihad. After all, the announcement even states that Riyadh Air will be Delta’s exclusive partner in Riyadh.
What makes this all a bit surprising is that historically Delta has been an airline that’s very controlling with its partners. The airline hasn’t historically been into “casual” partnerships, but rather has been focused on airlines in which it can have joint ventures and equity investments.
While I absolutely believe the airlines will cooperate, my guess is that both Delta’s service to Riyadh, as well as the concept of a joint venture between the airlines, is highly theoretical:
- There’s currently not a joint venture between any US carrier and any Gulf carrier, and that’s for good reason, since Gulf carrier yields often aren’t that high
- If the intent of this partnership is connectivity, then the Riyadh Air partnership would partly overlap with the Air France-KLM and Virgin Atlantic partnership that Delta has
- I also don’t understand the upside for Delta in flying to Riyadh, rather than having Riyadh Air do that flying, unless there are significant subsidies; Delta’s cost structure is going to be way, way higher than Riyadh Air’s
One has to wonder how this will play out. Since Saudi Arabia and the Public Investment Fund are involved here, I’m curious if there could eventually be an investment in Delta from Saudi Arabia, rather than the other way around. Delta is certainly going all-in on Saudi Arabia, between this and the Saudia partnership.
Bottom line
Delta and Riyadh Air have announced plans for a strategic alliance. The airlines plan to partner across a variety of fields, including loyalty, passenger experience, and more. Furthermore, Delta intends to fly to Riyadh, and the airlines also plan to consider a joint venture in the future.
With Riyadh Air still being a ways off from launching, there won’t be many implications to this for the time being. However, I am curious to see how this evolves. Personally, I expect this may only be a part of Delta’s Middle East strategy, and that we maybe still see a partnership between Delta and Etihad.
What do you make of this Delta & Riyadh Air partnership?
What about the female Emirates flight attendant from Ireland who was arrested and detained for attempting suicide and consuming alcohol after being physically abused in the UAE?
While this site continues to dis US airlines while heaping praise on UAE airlines and hotels, it conveniently ignores the horrific abuses and unjust treatment of women and LGBT individuals by their religious extremist government. Choices.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/07/10/dubai-drops-attempted-suicide-charges-against-irish-woman-as-travel-ban-lifted/
What about the female Emirates flight attendant from Ireland who was arrested and detained for attempting suicide and consuming alcohol after being physically abused in the UAE?
While this site continues to dis US airlines while heaping praise on UAE airlines and hotels, it conveniently ignores the horrific abuses and unjust treatment of women and LGBT individuals by their religious extremist government. Choices.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/07/10/dubai-drops-attempted-suicide-charges-against-irish-woman-as-travel-ban-lifted/
Tim Dunn mostly only makes sense to himself, and not respected by any Wall Street analyst. How many real financial analysts spend their time all day/every day on OMAAT? He's a tiresome joke.
Okay, that's the sidenote.
Let me simplify:
RX = O/D market, by their own business plan statements, and it will takes years of development to even make that come to fruition, as they are also taking years with their tourism infrastructure to...
Tim Dunn mostly only makes sense to himself, and not respected by any Wall Street analyst. How many real financial analysts spend their time all day/every day on OMAAT? He's a tiresome joke.
Okay, that's the sidenote.
Let me simplify:
RX = O/D market, by their own business plan statements, and it will takes years of development to even make that come to fruition, as they are also taking years with their tourism infrastructure to develop (but making fast development gains, if not tourism gains quite yet).
QR = Huge connectivity base; perhaps some may find an argument or data that says it's also an O/D market, but that data would be skewed by the World Cup
EK = O/D and huge connectivity market. No question.
The above makes Tim's comments ignorant, in terms of him referencing DL being the "last in/best dressed" analysis.
Then he goes absurd by mentioning the Saudi Arabia/Israel potential peace agreement. He's all of a sudden a world diplomat? Both RX/LY are O/D, no beyond connectivity of meaning...which therefore fails to compete with the AA/QR and UA/EK partnership by any metric.
Saudi Arabia is a big market, as well as Israel...but both as ONLY as VFR and O/D markets without much connectivity (as RX admits with their strategy; and I have a good handful of friends working with them)
The DL/RX partnership is worthy of note, but is far behind AA/QR and UA/EK.
Tim Dunn...you are not a serious analyst.
I don't come here to be an analyst but I can read.
RX says it will grow to 100 destinations. They didn't say when.
If you are incapable of realizing that they will serve those 100 destinations in banks of flights, YOU are the one that should be staying off of internet forums.
And the point you continue to miss is that whatever EK and QR is matters next to nothing to AA or UA...
I don't come here to be an analyst but I can read.
RX says it will grow to 100 destinations. They didn't say when.
If you are incapable of realizing that they will serve those 100 destinations in banks of flights, YOU are the one that should be staying off of internet forums.
And the point you continue to miss is that whatever EK and QR is matters next to nothing to AA or UA because 1. both US carriers operate and will operate a fraction of the flights and capacity that QR and EK do and 2. EK and QR have no reason to share what they have with a two-bit US carrier.
You simply cannot stand to admit that DL has been chosen to be on the ground floor of a brand new high quality carrier not just for commercial reasons that will exceed what AA and UA have but also will help with setting up RX's business in ways that AA and UA will never be asked.
When I can read basic press releases and have to deal with people like you that clearly can't even read and comprehend, trying to discuss financials would go even further over your head than basic English.
You fundamentally can't stand to admit that, once again, Delta has outsmarted AA and UA in yet another region of the world. Latin America, Tokyo, NYC, LAX... the list just keeps growing.
lol
Oh tim
You write the stupidest things
Delta paid to partner with an airline that hasn’t even flown yet and delta has out smarted everyone lol
I hope your mom made you some really good snacks tonight for these verbal gems
Enjoy the basement
as usual, you post lies because you can't accept the truth.
Provide evidence that Delta paid anything.
They were CHOSEN by RX just as DL CHOSE to partner with RX because it provides the greatest opportunity to grow and will overshadow akibg with the relationship with El Al whatever AA and UA can do in the Middle East.
You consistently lie and go on the attack the most when Delta is on the verge or...
as usual, you post lies because you can't accept the truth.
Provide evidence that Delta paid anything.
They were CHOSEN by RX just as DL CHOSE to partner with RX because it provides the greatest opportunity to grow and will overshadow akibg with the relationship with El Al whatever AA and UA can do in the Middle East.
You consistently lie and go on the attack the most when Delta is on the verge or has accomplished the most.
All anyone needs to see is how Delta became the largest airline in NYC, LAX, hasn't given up its lead across the Atlantic, and outstrategized AA and UA in Latin America and Tokyo to realize that they are doing the same thing in the Middle East - but you are incapable of admitting that so attack anyone that dare can see it.
I find the focus on the partnership being on the Riyadh side of the partnership odd. I suspect that delta sees much more upside of being the exclusive North American partner and all the connecting traffic from wealthy saudis. Yes Delta will probably serve RUH but certainly with large subsidies to help promote MBS’s vision of turning the economy to tourism and other services rather than being dependent on oil in the long term
some people don't realize that women only got the right to vote in the UAE and Qatar and other places in the Middle East within the past 25 years.
To somehow think that Saudi Arabia is some sort of backwards outpost while the UAE and Qatar are some forward-thinking countries is simply historic ignorance.
RX will be a high-quality carrier formed in the same image as QR and EK.
DL will be in on...
some people don't realize that women only got the right to vote in the UAE and Qatar and other places in the Middle East within the past 25 years.
To somehow think that Saudi Arabia is some sort of backwards outpost while the UAE and Qatar are some forward-thinking countries is simply historic ignorance.
RX will be a high-quality carrier formed in the same image as QR and EK.
DL will be in on the ground floor of shaping that carrier with how it operates including in engine overhaul contracts - which DL has won in spades.
"RX will be a high-quality carrier formed in the same image as QR and EK."
with the minor detail that they've clearly stated their goal isn't a large connecting hub but rather an airline focused on Riyadh O&D... very very different than the QR and EK models and not very helpful for Delta unless they see some massive new potential for Riyadh tourism that they've just ignored for their entire history and somehow can't...
"RX will be a high-quality carrier formed in the same image as QR and EK."
with the minor detail that they've clearly stated their goal isn't a large connecting hub but rather an airline focused on Riyadh O&D... very very different than the QR and EK models and not very helpful for Delta unless they see some massive new potential for Riyadh tourism that they've just ignored for their entire history and somehow can't serve Riyadh without the help of a new airline there competing with Delta...
except they also say they are going to serve 100 destinations. You can't serve that many destinations and not create the potential to connect.
RX will start out as a point to point carrier. They can't build a huge hub complex that fast.
And for the benefit to DL, alot of people continue to extrapolate what AA and UA have in the Middle East and S. Asia and expect DL to do the same -...
except they also say they are going to serve 100 destinations. You can't serve that many destinations and not create the potential to connect.
RX will start out as a point to point carrier. They can't build a huge hub complex that fast.
And for the benefit to DL, alot of people continue to extrapolate what AA and UA have in the Middle East and S. Asia and expect DL to do the same - if they do anything.
The A350 is simply a more capable aircraft and DL has scores of them coming from Airbus' factories in the next few years - on top of the remainder of the A330-900 order. Add in that DL knows what the value of the Middle East is or is not compared to its own service including by watching what AA and UA have done with India and their relationships with QR and EK and DL will come up w/ a solution for the ME and S. Asia that will very likely be better in a number of quantifiable metrics.
The relationship with RX is just part of DL's strategy to serve that part of the world.
Except the UAE has almost 2x the Indian immigrants as Saudi Arabia and far more entrenched financial relationships and Dubai is actually viewed as a tourist destination.
Non-Muslim Indians generally do not visit Saudi Arabia and have little interest in doing so - obviously ~15% of Indians are Muslim which amounts to ~200M people, but relying on primarily that traffic for transit (esp. given the negative connotations of Saudi Arabia in the country) when that...
Except the UAE has almost 2x the Indian immigrants as Saudi Arabia and far more entrenched financial relationships and Dubai is actually viewed as a tourist destination.
Non-Muslim Indians generally do not visit Saudi Arabia and have little interest in doing so - obviously ~15% of Indians are Muslim which amounts to ~200M people, but relying on primarily that traffic for transit (esp. given the negative connotations of Saudi Arabia in the country) when that is not at all similar to the Indian expat demographics is a losing strategy waiting to happen.
You’re funny but reinforce why delta fired you years ago, tim
Delta is run by some smart folks
Including the ones that fired you
and you prove that you make up your own reality because you can't accept the reality that everyone else knows exists.
Everyone expected Delta to do something in the Middle East but thought, me included, that it would be with Etihad.
Ben has covered Riyadh for months.
The minute news comes out that RX and DL are partnering and the implications of how that will allow DL to leapfrog AA and UA in the Middle...
and you prove that you make up your own reality because you can't accept the reality that everyone else knows exists.
Everyone expected Delta to do something in the Middle East but thought, me included, that it would be with Etihad.
Ben has covered Riyadh for months.
The minute news comes out that RX and DL are partnering and the implications of how that will allow DL to leapfrog AA and UA in the Middle East, you characteristically come unglued.
You are at least predictable.
lol
The guy responding to every comment here says im unglued
Your lack of self respect for yourself is amazing
When they legalized female drivers in 2018 did that also apply to airplanes?
Do you guys think the Saudia operation in Riyadh will just fold into Riyadh Air? It would give RX an instant network to build on. I read somewhere that the PIF wants Saudia to just focus on Jeddah.
We went from people fighting over flying to Riyadh to people fighting over which airline will fly there first, I call that progress :D
There are and will be a handful of people that can't accept reality so invent their own.
Of course, UA will fly somewhere first just so that they can.... and in the process, they will manage to make half of the money that DL does flying the Atlantic even though UA flies more capacity.
But all of the UA simpletons want to continue to brag about how great UA is.
All the while failing...
There are and will be a handful of people that can't accept reality so invent their own.
Of course, UA will fly somewhere first just so that they can.... and in the process, they will manage to make half of the money that DL does flying the Atlantic even though UA flies more capacity.
But all of the UA simpletons want to continue to brag about how great UA is.
All the while failing to realize that DL has a long history of sitting back and waiting for its competitors to move and then makes its own moves which results in far strong results than AA or UA.
DL did in NYC, LAX, and BOS, is doing it in Latin America with Latam, is on the verge of doing it across the Pacific with Korean and will have larger joint ventures in all of those regions than its competitors.
And DL will do it in the Middle East - not just with El Al but also with Riyadh. It could have been with Etihad but DL has a clean slate of paper to write on with RX and RX has said it is wanting to learn from DL including for maintenance and finance. DL doesn't just codeshare but builds whole-of-company partnerships.
When you factor in that Israel and Saudi Arabia were on the verge of signing a peace accord at the time of the Hamas attacks, DL is on the verge of being on the front row of a reshaping of the Middle East - and AA and UA's minority partnership with QR and EK simply don't compare.
and then you get into the fact that Airbus has waited for Boeing to release a model and then bested that model and it isn't a surprise that the A350 is a more capable and more efficient aircraft than the 787 - but some people can't accept that AA and UA jumped on the next shiny thing only to find out that Airbus designed the better product.
And DL held out for a better deal - including engine overhaul rights which it has on every aircraft it has on order.
Delta simply runs a better business and airline some people just can't accept that.
Ok
Here's what I think you need to just accept about the people commenting on this site:
1.) Probably most will agree that Delta is a better-run business (certainly it is inarguable it is a more profitable one)
2.) Nearly all of those people DON'T CARE!
This is a travel/liesure/miles/trip reviews/musings on commercial aviation industry site so most of us come here for that. Not faux-wall street assessments of every move every one of the big three make
Daniel,
I appreciate your sentiment but there are 2 ways to answer your statement.
1. You can define travel however you want but this story and many others doesn't have anything to do with trip reports, miles, or credit cards - it is an aviation business story. Ben and other airline blog operators have had no choice but to write general aviation stories because they generate page clicks at a far better rate...
Daniel,
I appreciate your sentiment but there are 2 ways to answer your statement.
1. You can define travel however you want but this story and many others doesn't have anything to do with trip reports, miles, or credit cards - it is an aviation business story. Ben and other airline blog operators have had no choice but to write general aviation stories because they generate page clicks at a far better rate than miles or credit card or even trip reports, esp. of carriers on the other side of the world. Ben himself has chosen to expand the focus of this blog beyond what you want it to be.
2. You and everyone else simply want the focus of any article to be about what matters to you - and yet
a. every one of the US airlines and nearly all global airlines are for-profit companies for whom making a profit matters above all else. When you commit to being a business, all of your decisions ultimately have to support that goal or the business fails.
b. There is an enormous amount of pride in the airline industry and most of the people that participate want to think they speak for executives but they know little about business - and their posts show.
c. I have participated in aviation social media for 25 plus years. AA had a group of people that were convinced AA could do no wrong and now it is UA people - and that is heavily led by the mindset of UA's executives including Scott Kirby that touts size and other aviation metrics even while failing to acknowledge that many of his strategies have resulted in poor financial performance; in no other industry could an exec repeatedly get by with doing things that harm the company and help its competitors and be lauded as the best executive in the best which is exactly the way Scott Kirby wants to paint himself.
d. Delta is a better run business and airline and has been for over a decade but some people can't admit that. Delta is also a far better strategist and it moves deliberately and slowly and it has very few strategic failures -and those that want to argue otherwise refuse to consider what DL's strategies are and measure them in short-term moments.
Sorry if confronting you with business facts is annoying but even schedule changes and miles and cards discussions are about business. Delta is the most profitable US airline and the most valuable company in the world with the most valuable loyalty and credit card programs because it understands how to make the most money - and for many customers, those goals are in conflict with what they want - and yet other carriers keep copying Delta's strategies.
You are free to skip articles and responses but you cannot ignore the economic realities and decisions that drive the for-profit airline industry.
Ben have you heard anything yet about NEOM airlines?
Meh. I think it’d be more excited if they could actually figure out how to fly JFK to Tokyo nonstop.
You do realize that AA, the only other current US airline that has flown to JFK hasn't made money flying the Pacific in over a decade?
And adding JFK-HND now is not going to change that.
DL does have twice as many flights to HND from the US as AA.
None of which changes that AA and UA will have a token flight or two to their Middle East partner hubs while DL will...
You do realize that AA, the only other current US airline that has flown to JFK hasn't made money flying the Pacific in over a decade?
And adding JFK-HND now is not going to change that.
DL does have twice as many flights to HND from the US as AA.
None of which changes that AA and UA will have a token flight or two to their Middle East partner hubs while DL will be in a position to shape US carrier service from the US to RUH as no other carrier has done to any Middle East country.
And DL is still in a position to add its own flights to other places in the Middle East and E. and S. Asia on the A350 from places that AA and UA cannot fly with the 777-300ER or any version of the 787
I have been saying for years that DL would move into an aggressive international growth mode and we are beginning to see that play out.
There will be more international route announcements in the next few months
I predict UA will be in RUH before DL. Riyadh Air will face aircraft order delays like everyone else and they build will be stalled. By the time they have a network to be of any feed use to DL, UA will already have received a glut of long haul aircraft for missions like this. This could even include the UA A359 order that has yet to be developed. I expect DL metal in RUH no sooner that 2026/7. Anything earlier and Riyadh will still be in infancy.
You do realize that Delta is going to receive 14 new widebody aircraft while United will receive, wait, wait, FIVE.
The huge influx of new aircraft for United is going to come about the same time that Southwest gets the MAX 7.
United has made its decision about the A350. Even if they signed on the dotted line today, Delta will receive dozens of A350s before UA - and very likely more than UA receives...
You do realize that Delta is going to receive 14 new widebody aircraft while United will receive, wait, wait, FIVE.
The huge influx of new aircraft for United is going to come about the same time that Southwest gets the MAX 7.
United has made its decision about the A350. Even if they signed on the dotted line today, Delta will receive dozens of A350s before UA - and very likely more than UA receives in 787s.
and people wonder why there is such chest-thumping between DL and UA need only see stuff like this that is divorced from reality.
and let's not forget that UA operates one flight to the UAE right now, is adding another, and does not have a joint venture... why would EK want to have a JV with UA who will fly a small fraction of the capacity that EK flies to the US?
DL, OTOH, is getting in on the ground floor of RX and will not have to add its own flights AFTER its partner has taken all of the best and most valuable routes and flight times.
Tim
Stop lying
The widebody for United is vastly superior to delta
150 787 alone
Your lying is cute except when it’s so obvious and indefensible
as usual, you are fixated on numbers rather than quality.
The A350 flies flights that are in the air far longer than any 787.
DL's A350-1000 is vastly more efficient and economical than any 787-9 and far more capable than the 787-10.
AA and UA made their choice with the 787. DL sat back and waited for the A350 and will reap the benefits of a much more capable and efficient aircraft.
but we...
as usual, you are fixated on numbers rather than quality.
The A350 flies flights that are in the air far longer than any 787.
DL's A350-1000 is vastly more efficient and economical than any 787-9 and far more capable than the 787-10.
AA and UA made their choice with the 787. DL sat back and waited for the A350 and will reap the benefits of a much more capable and efficient aircraft.
but we know MAX is hellbent on convincing himself that I am wrong and UA made the best choices - even though UA is no longer the largest airline in NYC and makes $2 billion less per year than DL even though UA flies more seat miles.
Believe the delusion, Max. The truth is so much harder to accept.
Youre such an idiot. But I’ll go back to the topic. United has far more wide bodies on order than delta (to include more by the time this Riyadh partnership kicks off if it ever does) and already has FAR more than delta so quit your normal lying. And your a350 vs 787 nonsense is so stupid. A short year ago you were telling everyone the a350 outsold the 787 because you don’t know what...
Youre such an idiot. But I’ll go back to the topic. United has far more wide bodies on order than delta (to include more by the time this Riyadh partnership kicks off if it ever does) and already has FAR more than delta so quit your normal lying. And your a350 vs 787 nonsense is so stupid. A short year ago you were telling everyone the a350 outsold the 787 because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
The a350 is a great plane and does some things better than the 787 while the 787 does some better than the a350
But your constant lying on the topic is absurd
and you still can't grasp that all the orders in the world don't matter if Boeing can't deliver them as fast as Airbus delivers to Delta
Any half intelligent person (which does not include you) knows that the A350 is larger in every version than the 787-8 or 9 and far more capable than any 787 and more efficient as well.
And yet Boeing’s current issue is with the max10 where delta has a bigger % issue than United
Sadly, for tim, United has massively larger widebody orders vs delta and narrowbody even ex-max10
Easily verified Via sec filings that he hates that delta publishes
Tim was fired by delta for good reason (decades ago) because he has no idea what he’s talking about
A350 is a good plane
But it’s just a...
And yet Boeing’s current issue is with the max10 where delta has a bigger % issue than United
Sadly, for tim, United has massively larger widebody orders vs delta and narrowbody even ex-max10
Easily verified Via sec filings that he hates that delta publishes
Tim was fired by delta for good reason (decades ago) because he has no idea what he’s talking about
A350 is a good plane
But it’s just a stupid person’s errand to try to say it’s better or worse vs the 787
Anyone who knows the industry knows the a350 does things better vs the 777 but worse than the 787
The only idiot is the guy fired from delta that doesn’t know the gap between the 787 and 777 that airbus went after with the a350
But tim is too stupid to realize that nuance
People often criticizes AA but Delta looks desperate lately.
Delta could lose money flying the Pacific like AA has done for a decade but they choose not to.
Stop lying when you don’t understand geographic revenue accounting, tim
the $2 billion less in total revenue is not a lie, Max.
You can't accept that DL is simply a far better run company and airline and will do in the Middle East with El Al and Riyadh what it has done in NYC and LAX and is on the verge of doing in Latin America with Latam and across the Pacific with Korean.
AA and UA jumped on their strategies. DL, as usual, sits...
the $2 billion less in total revenue is not a lie, Max.
You can't accept that DL is simply a far better run company and airline and will do in the Middle East with El Al and Riyadh what it has done in NYC and LAX and is on the verge of doing in Latin America with Latam and across the Pacific with Korean.
AA and UA jumped on their strategies. DL, as usual, sits back and waits and best them.
and makes more money - no matter how much you want to argue the numbers that AA and UA report to the DOT are wrong.
Delta is more profitable overall as I’ve said many times and is very obvious , that’s about all you understand
LOL sloppy seconds for Delta. A vapor ware partner is ideal for Delta.
Saudi Arabia as a country not ready to be a connecting hub the West, basic human rights reforms not yet done to even get on the level of the UAE
Let alone the practical consideration of being a dry airline. From the CEO...
“At the moment, alcohol is prohibited within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and therefore we will work...
LOL sloppy seconds for Delta. A vapor ware partner is ideal for Delta.
Saudi Arabia as a country not ready to be a connecting hub the West, basic human rights reforms not yet done to even get on the level of the UAE
Let alone the practical consideration of being a dry airline. From the CEO...
“At the moment, alcohol is prohibited within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and therefore we will work with that as being the current legislation. If over time things change, we’ll adapt and adjust accordingly.”
LOL!!! so it was all a lie, I remember lots of people saying Riyadh Air would be the new Etihad or Emirates, a premium carrier with alcohol on board and lots of lounges serving the best brands worldwide. This is so funny to witness.
Have they announced theres alcohol on the flights yet?
Not yet. They probably won't announce that until much closer to the airline entering service. It's a sensitive topic for the local population, so no point in upsetting them ahead of time. Most likely the Red Sea resorts will see alcohol before Riyadh Air announces ...
I wonder what all the woke flight attendants with gay pride pins will do? Or the small number of trans flight attendants? Or a Jewish passenger? It isn’t even legal to have a Bible in your checked luggage or to wear a crucifix. I suspect this is more a case of this airline basically buying Delta’s expertise so they can launch a competent airline. Unless and until we see the KSA ease restrictions, I don’t believe this will ever happen.
Saudia already in SkyTeam and with this partnership Saudia and Riyadh Air will be indirectly "partners" through the DL association. Seems redundant (I see perhaps well down the line the two KSA based airlines merging to one again in future)
Wonder what partnerships will be formed for the upcoming Neom air if it ever happens.
Broader adoption of Flying Blue point currency, please. A la Avios.
WEIRD: Delta & Riyadh Air Plan Partnership, Delta Will Fly To Riyadh.
Fixed it.
So we have:
* DL partnering with LY and RX
* AFKL partnering with EY
* EY expanding service to BOS
* DL signalling further expansion in BOS by promoting it to a long-haul pilot base (and giving it a D1 lounge)
The pieces do seem to be moving in a way that's not inconsistent with EY/LY/RX joining SkyTeam as a group...
Let's hope.
AFKL also partner with LY. It’s more about joint ventures, revenue sharing and frequent flier benefits without joining the alliance.
I'd bet DL potentially having some equity investment or maybe a share swap with Riyadh.
RX have been on a shopping spree at LHR over the last few months securing 16 slot pairs so far and with VS recently announced partnership looks like they are cozying upto to SkyTeam.
Ignore this comment, reading and writing when Jet lagged don’t mix.
timmy d furiously working on his pro-SA propaganda as we speak
So if Riyadh air has an alliance...it's probably SkyTeam?
@ dn10 -- For what it's worth, Riyadh Air's CEO has said that the airline doesn't have plans to join an alliance, but rather wants to focus on partnerships with specific airlines. Of course that could evolve over time, but that seems to be the current plan.
I would imagine that gay flight attendants would feel uneasy about going to SA. How are they going to protect gay FAs... or even women employees?
I know tons of gay people who work in Saudi arabia. No big issue. I also know women who have worked there for years.
Gay people live and exist everywhere in the world. It's about being able to live freely with your civil rights being protected without any threat of reprecussions.
Interesting gamble Delta is taking, on an airline that hasn't launched yet even though that same country already has an airline in the same alliance...
Queue up the boycott Delta music.
Subsized Middle Eastern airlines my ass
can you explain the definition of "subsized" or are you simply incapable of spelling the word you intended?
Oh shut up atl100million. I don't spend my free time defending my Delta stock investment vehemently
While hijabs and veiling are no longer required for women, will they still be allowed delta uniforms with skirts and short sleeves?
I doubt an investment from PIF would happen. It would entail a long foreign investment review by the govt. Also, this agreement was signed/announced in Atlanta. If there was a potential PIF investment, Ed B would have traveled to Riyadh to kiss the ring.
We don't need american carriers having saudi investments or shareholders, it would be a disaster, we are not the UK, where any oil rich goverment or company can buy whatever they want out of ego.
Saudi already in SkyTeam. I’m sure Riyadh will start cooperating with AFKL Odd DL doesn’t cooperate much with SV
@ Icarus -- The truth is that I think that most Delta passengers just don't want to fly Saudia. While there's appeal to flying Gulf carriers, that doesn't extend to Saudia in terms of perception in the west. Only time will tell if it's different for Riyadh Air.
Also keep in mind that while Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, the airline actually doesn't care much about the alliance.
I'm not sure where "doesn't care much about the alliance" comes from. The longest running partnership was with VS which eventually joined ST. For the others:
* WS is no more a fit for any alliance than Gol (primarily an LCC)
* LA is still partially owned by QR
* AFKL's longstanding close partnership with QF plausibly meant that AFKL was going to veto VA joining SkyTeam
QF being one of AFKL's closest...
I'm not sure where "doesn't care much about the alliance" comes from. The longest running partnership was with VS which eventually joined ST. For the others:
* WS is no more a fit for any alliance than Gol (primarily an LCC)
* LA is still partially owned by QR
* AFKL's longstanding close partnership with QF plausibly meant that AFKL was going to veto VA joining SkyTeam
QF being one of AFKL's closest partners (one of the few with full reciprocal elite recognition) has always been kind of curious (it doesn't even have the residue of past M&A dalliances, like AFKL's looser partnership with JL). What with the bad blood between QR (now the linchpin of Oneworld) and QF, could the rough idea be that a post-Project Sunrise QF doesn't need BA collaboration on the Kangaroo Route or AA feed via LAX/DFW, but could use AFKL feed for continental Europe (and DL feed in the US)?
"The longest running partnership was with VS"
"QR (now the linchpin of Oneworld)"
What in the world are you talking about, with either of these?
This is huge and not entirely unexpected. Delta was in a position to pick off any of the free agents in the Middle East and Riyadh will be a great partner. Delta will have the ability to shape that partnership far more than American can with Qatar or united can with Emirates.
@ Tim Dunn -- Practically speaking, Delta will have the ability to shape Riyadh Air in what way, though, which American couldn't do with Qatar Airways? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I'm just curious what you're hinting at. Frequent flyer program? Inflight product? Destinations?
Routes. Riyadh hasn’t announced schedules. Delta can fly what it wants alongside Riyadh. AA and UA are trying to find places to fly outside of the extensive schedules their partners already fly.
And if DL invests or goes to a JV the stakes are raised
All those new A359s have some new routes to fly
Good luck to delta filling a359s to Riyadh
@ Tim Dunn -- Sure, but what are actually the practical implications of that? We know Riyadh Air wants to operate all kinds of point-to-point routes where it thinks demand is there for travel to Riyadh. It's a given that the airline will fly to places like Boston, New York, and Washington. Maybe Delta will fly from Atlanta to Riyadh.
But what shockers or surprises could there be here, which wouldn't be possible with a...
@ Tim Dunn -- Sure, but what are actually the practical implications of that? We know Riyadh Air wants to operate all kinds of point-to-point routes where it thinks demand is there for travel to Riyadh. It's a given that the airline will fly to places like Boston, New York, and Washington. Maybe Delta will fly from Atlanta to Riyadh.
But what shockers or surprises could there be here, which wouldn't be possible with a similar partnership between American and Qatar Airways?
Also, do you think the demand/yields are there for Delta to fly to Riyadh right now, or only once Riyadh Air builds a larger network that allows for connectivity?
Ben,
it simply means that DL won't have to settle for working around AA and UA's ME partner schedules. If DL wants to fly JFK-RUH, they will fly a flight alongside Riyadh.
And the point of a joint venture, if it comes and very well may, is that DL can fly JFK and Riyadh can fly to ATL and it all comes out in the wash.
EK and QR already had much more developed...
Ben,
it simply means that DL won't have to settle for working around AA and UA's ME partner schedules. If DL wants to fly JFK-RUH, they will fly a flight alongside Riyadh.
And the point of a joint venture, if it comes and very well may, is that DL can fly JFK and Riyadh can fly to ATL and it all comes out in the wash.
EK and QR already had much more developed route systems and schedules so AA and UA couldn't get first choice of what they want to fly.
The notion that DL can't fill an A350, let alone several, is as laughable as the people that don't see the huge coup this is.
It is obvious that DL is moving forward in the Middle East; the fact that it is with Riyadh and not Etihad should put EY on notice.
This might be one of tim's most ridiculous Delta spin jobs ever.
Delta could fly to Riyadh now under this idea that there's a lot of O&D to Riyadh and Delta will fly there and fill countless A359s... but they don't because the yield isn't there and that isn't going to change next year or the year after with a new airline dedicated to local Riyadh traffic.
This is just a marketing gimmick for...
This might be one of tim's most ridiculous Delta spin jobs ever.
Delta could fly to Riyadh now under this idea that there's a lot of O&D to Riyadh and Delta will fly there and fill countless A359s... but they don't because the yield isn't there and that isn't going to change next year or the year after with a new airline dedicated to local Riyadh traffic.
This is just a marketing gimmick for Riyadh Air to pay to get some legitimacy from the only airline left without a Middle East partner, Delta.
Detroit to Riyadh would be a no-brainer. More than Atlanta.
Hey FNT
I don’t think DTW’s local populace is from the Riyadh region of the Arab world but rather a few hundred miles north of there primarily. I’m not sure a new airline focused on Riyadh O&D is much of a slam dunk. It’s rather telling that none of the ME3 fly to dtw but TK and Royal Jordanian do since they’re both easy transit points for where DTW’s Arabic Population is from
sore loser... to no one's surprise
Sore losers? Hahaha, how delusional are you? This is insane! They haven’t even flown a flight yet and you’re saying it’s already a better partnership! How nuts are you? I can’t wait until they scale down the airline like they did with THE LINE. Then you’ll peep out “It was a smart move by Delta to get out.” You’re the LOSER.
“You clearly want to to see a DL-EY partnership, Ben, and I think you will one day be pleased.” 6-9-24
See Ben! My son knows what he’s talking about! But wait, they can reshape the world because with a new airline that hasn’t even flown a single revenue flight, DL can tell them what to do! Geniues! The partnership is already way more successful than AA/QR & UA/EK!
Grandma,
This is the smartest move the universe's #1 PREMIUM airline could possibly do...show a young whippersnapper airline how to try to be 1/10th the airline that Delta is! Because NO airline will EVER reach Delta standards...EVER!
seems about right, you get to the party late, you take the leftovers
How can there be a "leftover" for an airline that realistically hasn't even formed yet, and seems to have unlimited funding behind its ambitions?
I predict UA will be in RUH before DL. Riyadh Air will face aircraft order delays like everyone else and they build will be stalled. By the time they have a network to be of any feed use to DL, UA will already have received a glut of long haul aircraft for missions like this. This could even include the UA A359 order that has yet to be developed. I expect DL metal in RUH no sooner that 2026/7. Anything earlier and Riyadh will still be in infancy
You just contradicted yourself, seeing as United's A350s are pushed back until 2027. And why would they receive new equipment with any less risk of delay?