JonNYC reports how Delta is noticing a serious issue when it comes to passenger satisfaction on its most important route, and it’s asking for pilots to help solve that…
In this post:
Delta flights between JFK & LAX see lousy net promoter scores
The market between New York (JFK) and Los Angeles (LAX) is among the most competitive and highest revenue in the United States, and it’s one where Delta has a first place position. Well, at least that’s true in terms of the number of people carried and revenue. How customers feel is a different story, though.
In a memo to pilots, Delta has revealed that the net promoter score (NPS) for this route runs 9.2-12.7 points below the national average for the airline, and points out that’s a serious issue, especially with the significant presence of “high-profile customers, business travelers, and social media influencers.”
The airline claims that the route is at a higher risk for delays compared to much of the domestic network, but says that many of those delays are not driven by pilot performance or decision making, but instead, are due to decisions outside of their control.
So Delta is asking pilots to do a better job of keeping passengers updated during delays, pointing out communication makes a big difference in terms of the NPS.
Here’s the content of the memo, for those who are curious:
Team, We’d like to take a moment to talk about JFK–LAX and LAX-JFK – two of the most important markets we serve and routes that consistently carry high expectations – from our customers, from Delta and from all of us who operate it. Together, JFK–LAX–JFK represents one of the top revenue markets in Delta’s system and stands as the largest domestic market in the U.S. by seat capacity.
In addition, this route carries a high level of visibility, with a significant presence of high-profile customers, business travelers, and social media influencers. Customer experiences on these flights are often shared widely and in real time, further amplifying the impact of every interaction.
Recent data show that this route operates at a higher risk for delays compared to much of the domestic network. Just as important to note: many of these delays are not driven by pilot performance or flight deck decision making – they’re largely due to factors outside your direct control.
Even so, the impact is real. Customer experience on JFK–LAX currently runs 9.2 points below the mainline domestic NPS (Net Promoter Score – the way we and other airlines gauge customer satisfaction) average, while LAX-JFK currently runs 12.7 points below. Because these are premium, high revenue markets, those gaps matter – to our customers and to Delta.
The best way our pilots can help is simple: Remain focused, as you always are, on Delta’s Impactful Behaviors – Greet Me, Recognize Me, Be Kind to Me and Inform Me – to ensure every customer interaction is kind, attentive, appreciative, and informative. In particular, it’s proven that our NPS scores improve significantly during a service disruption or delay when our pilots provide timely updates and engage positively with our customers.
What’s really driving customer dissatisfaction in this market?
A net promoter score that’s an average of over 10 points lower than the national domestic average is pretty meaningful, especially given the volume of customers who take this route. For that matter, you’d think that a premium transcontinental route would be more likely to have a high NPS, since airlines tend to deliver a bit more on these routes.
So is this really primarily about operational reliability? At least compared to the past (where Delta marketed itself as the “on-time machine”), Delta has struggled with reliability in recent years, especially when recovering from weather events, thanks in no small part to issues with its pilot software.
But the airline suggests this is largely due to delays that don’t involve staffing. So is the issue that Delta’s Boeing 767s are so old and unreliable that they just frequently have maintenance issues? Or what?
One wonders if passenger experience could also be factoring into this:
- The 767 is a mixed bag; in economy it’s actually quite nice, with the 2-3-2 layout, while in business class it really doesn’t impress
- I wonder if some people just don’t like the plane because the overhead bins aren’t big (so more people have to gate check bags), if this has to do with Wi-Fi performance, if they just sense the plane isn’t modern
- While Delta One passengers do get access to the excellent Delta One Lounge in both New York and Los Angeles, the onboard product oddly isn’t that great, with food and drinks that don’t follow the standard Delta One offerings, despite the branding
Anyway, I’m not sure what’s driving this, and to what extent it’s a combination of many factors. Either way, you really don’t want your NPS to be so far below average on the single most important domestic route.
Bottom line
Delta seems to really be struggling with its net promoter score between New York and Los Angeles, and it’s an average of 9.2-12.7 points below the national average for the carrier’s domestic flights. The airline thinks this largely comes down to operational reliability, which is why it’s asking pilots to (in particular) make frequent announcements on this route when issues arise, to keep passengers informed.
However, I have to imagine there’s more to this issue than just operational reliability. After all, if operational issues are causing that big of an NPS drop in a single market, then the airline has some serious issues with reliability.
What do you make of Delta’s “premium” NPS woes?
The biggest fallout is as you enter/exit the DL1 lounge and experience the low performance of the rest of the journey.
If to choose two major issues: old aircraft and “silent” pilots
They try to get too fancy with the food. Maybe I am too simple and not a conniseur of exotic food, but an occasional real meat and potatoes with veggies might be a nice change instead of all the 5 star chef meals that I have no idea of what I am eating and most of the time do not finish the meal.
When you're selling a product at such a high cost you need to be perfect, not close. Your aircraft is older, your meals don't change and you wine sucks. Telling me you're sorry doesn't cut the cake. Until you can do better, lower your price. Delta has a policy of over pricing things because as they say, they can.
I really appreciate the B6 Mint meal service. Innovative, and usually well-executed. Great wines as well to go with the meal.
Serving the entire meal on one tray on a 6-hour "premium" route is anything but "premium."
More like the same meal they grind out on DTW/MSP-LAX
Pre covid, Delta offered complimentary meals and alcoholic drinks to all passengers in Economy. Nowadays, the food offered on Domestic Delta One is similar to that which was served on Domestic First a couple of years ago.
Delta gas always been a shit show.
Nasty attitudes among the hired help in the cabin, acting like they are doing you a favor instead of doing their job!
Packed in the cabin like a cattle car, meals are shit.
Please .....
the mental delusion of Queen sTD shown below
wow. just wow. get some meds, slugger
you have to laugh at how badly some people fixate on someone on the internet.
Seriously, all of the people below should get help.
and neither or Ben can deal w/ the root problem which is that not a single one of the big 4 airlines in the NYC market put their best foot forward in the TCON market and THAT is why customers rate DL lower.
They ALSO rate AA, B6 and UA lower...
you have to laugh at how badly some people fixate on someone on the internet.
Seriously, all of the people below should get help.
and neither or Ben can deal w/ the root problem which is that not a single one of the big 4 airlines in the NYC market put their best foot forward in the TCON market and THAT is why customers rate DL lower.
They ALSO rate AA, B6 and UA lower but nobody else is willing to say what DL MIGHT have identified.
And if ALL of this was really said, it speaks volumes to the fact that Jon can't get his hands on internal DL documents near as easily (similar for WN) - if at all - as he can AA and from UA
Sure sure sure Timmy - “all of us” have the issue and not one delulu poster, yup yup
your "issue" is that you cannot accept that DL is nowhere near falling off its pedestal.
and the superiority you think UA has just simply does not exist in any comprehensive set of operational or financial statistics.
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
Rough couple days for sTD
Perhaps just say “I was wrong”
And move on
You have been trying to prove me wrong for years and still fail.
Not only will neither AA and UA not surpass DL operationally in 2026 but they will far even further behind financially.
I get how much so many people want the king of the hill to fall off their pedestal but there is no serious threat to that happening and THAT is what you can’t stand - along with someone seeing the big picture that you cannot
Lil Timmy, care to comment on DL falling behind UA on NYC market share?
Don’t encourage the simpleton, UA-NYC. On second thoughts I retract that request as even Walter Mitty Dunn’s clicks aid Ben, in his quest for points.
"You have been trying to prove me wrong for years and still fail."
Well, on this thread alone you've been proven wrong about UA flying EWR-LAX with the 739
And a reference to your absolutely idiotic claim about the AA-DL interline dispute from 2015 where you were also proven wrong.
It's not wrong and there's certainly no failure.
Do you recall all your claims about Delta in NYC that I also proved wrong......
"You have been trying to prove me wrong for years and still fail."
Well, on this thread alone you've been proven wrong about UA flying EWR-LAX with the 739
And a reference to your absolutely idiotic claim about the AA-DL interline dispute from 2015 where you were also proven wrong.
It's not wrong and there's certainly no failure.
Do you recall all your claims about Delta in NYC that I also proved wrong... wait for it... with data? novel approach to use real information, I know, but you do make it very easy, sTD
"I get how much so many people want the king of the hill to fall off their pedestal "
The Wall Street Journal and New York Times just write the darnedest articles, huh?
LTD says, "You have been trying to prove me wrong for years and still fail."
LTD's top 10 false predictions/assertions.
1. DL can get Boeing delivery slots whenever they want them.
2. DL doesn't need aircraft in the near term.
3. DL is going to get Riyadh Air's close-in 787 delivery slots.
4. DL's A220 delivery delays are a swap for Air Asia's cancelled A339s slots.
5. UA permanently lost...
LTD says, "You have been trying to prove me wrong for years and still fail."
LTD's top 10 false predictions/assertions.
1. DL can get Boeing delivery slots whenever they want them.
2. DL doesn't need aircraft in the near term.
3. DL is going to get Riyadh Air's close-in 787 delivery slots.
4. DL's A220 delivery delays are a swap for Air Asia's cancelled A339s slots.
5. UA permanently lost NYC share leadership after spring 2025.
6. DL Tech Ops headed to $1B profit in next few years. Currently, $71m.
7. Amazon LEO will be better than Starlink. Sure it is and when?
8. DL leads BOS in market share.
9. UA uses 739s on EWR-LAX transcons.
10. DL is the leading US airline operationally and financially.
Timmy is melting down like Delta’s third world IT department.
Maybe Amazon will save them in 2030.
Admit it Timmy, you are losing sleep over UA taking over as the top dog and DL falling.
Now that the legacy CAL brains trust is gone, DL is falling back to its early 2000s train wreck.
no, I am on the other side of the world and enjoying absolutely stunning sunrises while you are still sloshing through your 55th shot
it seems like you're typing endlessly on comment sections -- certainly not enjoying sunrises ;)
The more posts produced by Mr Tim Dunn, the more evidence of the Walter Mitty in him comes to light. Bull excrement is the only way to accurately describe the rhetoric which he is trying to spread around on this topic.
Walter, you are making yourself look quite pathetic don’t you know? Your efforts to convince people about the virtues of Delta Airlines, over the shortcomings of the other failing U.S. carriers, is becoming...
The more posts produced by Mr Tim Dunn, the more evidence of the Walter Mitty in him comes to light. Bull excrement is the only way to accurately describe the rhetoric which he is trying to spread around on this topic.
Walter, you are making yourself look quite pathetic don’t you know? Your efforts to convince people about the virtues of Delta Airlines, over the shortcomings of the other failing U.S. carriers, is becoming increasingly pathetic old sock.
Actually Walter, your biggest contribution to any topic is your click. Clicks mean points for Ben and points mean review flights. Reading about the World Class Airlines is something which you ought to concentrate upon and not just your domestic dimension on commercial aviation. Your basement boy mentality makes Walter a very dull little bear.
yes. I support Ben.
but more than that, I support truth and facts.
DL continues to be the leading US airline in terms of multiple operational and financial metrics.
There are those like mini-brain that want to pretend to rewrite history to deny that DL chose to rewrite its arrangements w/ AA and UA because of AA and UA's poor baggage handling.
DL still leads the big 3 in baggage handling by a very...
yes. I support Ben.
but more than that, I support truth and facts.
DL continues to be the leading US airline in terms of multiple operational and financial metrics.
There are those like mini-brain that want to pretend to rewrite history to deny that DL chose to rewrite its arrangements w/ AA and UA because of AA and UA's poor baggage handling.
DL still leads the big 3 in baggage handling by a very wide margin.
and the article, as Ben notes, is not about operational reliability.
It is DL's admission that transcon routes are high value and DL is wise enough to admit that the experience is sub-par not because of on-time or plane types (which Ben wants to try to argue) but because of the people skills.
The bigger point is that DL is admitting what all of the big 4 NYC airlines see and experience.
The big 4 do not offer a high enough quality product or levels of service on their highest value domestic routes.
DL intends to fix it not with new planes - although those are coming - but with better people skills - what has differentiated DL from the rest of the industry for a century
Tim, can you give us the flight numbers for the UA 737-900s flying the LAX-EWR route? If you can’t, can you please stop commenting as you really can’t be trusted to use facts.
739 or not would you argue that United’s 757s are superior to Delta’s 763s?
Of course not
Quit arguing about specks while avoiding discussing the logs
“ There are those like mini-brain that want to pretend to rewrite history to deny that DL chose to rewrite its arrangements w/ AA and UA because of AA and UA's poor baggage handling.”
Oh you want to double down on being an idiot? lol
It’s still your move.
I provided about 6-7 links reminding you what the dispute was about.
I’m still waiting on a SINGLE LINK FROM YOU
Nice try, tim lol
And yet you continue to argue about the past so you can avoid admitting that American and United had far worse operations and STILL DO
a single link from you.... lol
just say you're wrong and move on.
Walter, you invited me to visit you and for me to bring my passport to prove my credentials. I have indicated that I am willing to go to great personal expense to exceed to your wishes, yet you appear to have chickened out on your invitation. Was the invitation simply more of the fantasy world gobbledygook?
"DL continues to be the leading US airline in terms of multiple operational and financial metrics."
"Leading" US airline? Really? That means Delta is "#1" in the measurable metrics - right? Okay then. Let's discuss. Here are the most recently available, 1st Q 2026, numbers.
Financial Metrics:
Delta Pre-tax profit, $530m. United Pre-tax profit, $900m.
Delta net profit margin: 6.87%. Skywest net profit margin: 10.4%
Operational Metrics:
– On-time Arrivals / entire branded network...
"DL continues to be the leading US airline in terms of multiple operational and financial metrics."
"Leading" US airline? Really? That means Delta is "#1" in the measurable metrics - right? Okay then. Let's discuss. Here are the most recently available, 1st Q 2026, numbers.
Financial Metrics:
Delta Pre-tax profit, $530m. United Pre-tax profit, $900m.
Delta net profit margin: 6.87%. Skywest net profit margin: 10.4%
Operational Metrics:
– On-time Arrivals / entire branded network (including express carriers)
1 - Alaska, 79.64%
2 - Southwest, 78.39%
3 - United, 77.91%
4 - Delta, 76.74%
- On-time Arrivals / major, mainline carriers only (removing "Express" data)
1 - United, 79.96%
2 - Southwest, 78.39%
3 - Delta, 78.27%
– Cancellation rate / entire branded network (including express carriers)
1 - Allegiant, 1.57% cancelled
2 - Southwest, 1.73% cancelled
3 - Alaska, 1.85% cancelled
4 - United, 2.57% cancelled
5 - Frontier, 2.78% cancelled
6 - Delta, 3.70% cancelled
– Cancellation rate / all airlines (i.e. all "Skywest" as one operation)
1 - Allegiant, 1.57% cancelled
2 - Alaska, 1.71% cancelled
3 - Southwest, 1.73% cancelled
4 - United, 1.82% cancelled
5 - Skywest, 2.75% cancelled
6 - Frontier, 2.78% cancelled
7 - Envoy, 2.95% cancelled
8 - Delta, 3.23% cancelled
– Long Tarmac Delays (over 3 hours, on the ground, waiting on the plane)
From January thru March of 2026, there were 173 incidents of planes waiting on the ground in excess of 3 hours before deplaning was offered. From fewest flights reported to most flights (all branded flights):
1st: Breeze / Spirit (tied for 1st), 1 flight each
3rd: Allegiant / 2 flights
4th: Southwest / 5 flights
5th: JetBlue / 8 flights
6th: Alaska / 9 flights
7th: American / 16 flights
8th: United / 42 flights
9th: Delta / 89 flights
Even taking out the “express” flights, and only looking at mainline operations, Delta still lags the other three large US carriers:
1st: Southwest, 5 flights
2nd: American, 9 flights
3rd: United, 31 flights
4th: Delta, 59 flights
– Consumer Complaints, “Big 4” US airlines:
1st: Southwest, 592 complaints
2nd: United, 2309 complaints
3rd: Delta, 2320 complaints
4th: American, 4958 complaints
I'm having a really hard time finding where Delta is the "leading US airline in operational and financial metrics". But then again, you are known for making wild assertions with no actual facts to back them up.
Just had an interesting experience with Delta. Tried to book a flight with SkyMiles, and was told there is a 15% discount for holders of their AmEx branded card. And that it would be applied to the current booking if I applied first. So I did, got the card, online image with actual number and temp CVC and $1,000 limit until physical card is issued. But no discount applied. Chatted with Delta, they said I...
Just had an interesting experience with Delta. Tried to book a flight with SkyMiles, and was told there is a 15% discount for holders of their AmEx branded card. And that it would be applied to the current booking if I applied first. So I did, got the card, online image with actual number and temp CVC and $1,000 limit until physical card is issued. But no discount applied. Chatted with Delta, they said I had to contact AmEx to add it to account. Chatted with AmEx, they told me I had to contact Delta SkyMiles customer service. They have an AI bot that insisted I had to contact AmEx. Turns out I probably have to wait until physical card is delivered in a couple weeks -- by then, of course, the cost will probably have changed.
Well, they could have placed those swanky new 321s on the JFK-LAX transcons, but no, they had to waste them on inconsequential ATL-west coast routes.
How pathetic is it that DL now flies the A318 JFK-SFO. SAD!
Nice try pulling a Tim Dunn, but Braniff doesn't fly A318.
You're actually thinking of 727.
posting and drinking is apparently a real thing.
Fell off your rocker with Matthew's article about double UA 777A aircraft failures?
Just retire the pathetic rust buckets
lol.
oh sTD... you are going to be referencing a single article about two cancelled flights for weeks lol
it seems to be all you have left along with MBR ;)
@ Tim Dunn -- We're waiting to learn which EWR-LAX frequencies UA operates with 737-900ERs, please!! These are the important details!
Not sure who’s diminished more mentally the past few years, Tiny Handed Tim or Agent Orange
That lunatic just fluff things up and never fact check every fact he claims, stats he brought up is just made up bias that hates UA.
All we can do for now is just ask him this same question everytime he replies.
surely you are familiar with flightaware, Ben?
It shows what is actually operated, not what is scheduled.
and UA does schedule 757s on transcon routes that directly compete with DL's 763s and yet you harp incessantly about how inferior the DL 763s are.
on what planet do you think a DL 763 is an inferior product to UA's 757s? not just domestically but internationally.
how about you do an apples to apples comparison about...
surely you are familiar with flightaware, Ben?
It shows what is actually operated, not what is scheduled.
and UA does schedule 757s on transcon routes that directly compete with DL's 763s and yet you harp incessantly about how inferior the DL 763s are.
on what planet do you think a DL 763 is an inferior product to UA's 757s? not just domestically but internationally.
how about you do an apples to apples comparison about what are aircraft are used competitive by route (or TATL city)?
These are important details that you can't ever seem to figure out!
and, yes, Ben, how is that you and Gary and sometimes Matthew all manage to cover the same stories but you never say a peep about UA's operational failures because they won't retire older aircraft that are no longer supported such as the 777-200As.
737, Timbot. Not 757. Details chum.
again, look what UA has actually flown, not what is scheduled.
Given that they have such poor maintenance dispatch reliability, it isn't a surprise that they sub in 737s at times.
and the bigger point is that the DL 763 is used most directly competitive with UA 757s; on no planet is the DL 763 an inferior product to UA's 757s.
If DL is still heavily using 763s after UA flies even its current...
again, look what UA has actually flown, not what is scheduled.
Given that they have such poor maintenance dispatch reliability, it isn't a surprise that they sub in 737s at times.
and the bigger point is that the DL 763 is used most directly competitive with UA 757s; on no planet is the DL 763 an inferior product to UA's 757s.
If DL is still heavily using 763s after UA flies even its current generation 787s along with the Coastliners and XLRs, then DL will be uncompetitive. They simply are not now.
and the issue which you cannot argue w/ is that every one of the big 4 NYC airlines have serious product and service delivery discrepancies on the transcons. B6 has the best onboard product but cannot operate it reliably while AA, DL and UA all use various levels of older aircraft.
for premium routes, not one of the big 4 puts their best foot forward
DOnt make up random scenarios where they sub B739s. Just admit you got it wrong, and repeated the untruth a good dozen times with your normal bravado bullshit. UA doesnt fly B739s from EWR-LAX. They just dont.
Also, we are one year after you proclaimed DL would rule NYC forever after the EWR meltdown last April/May, and the PANYNJ Dashboard that you love so much has UA as the leading carrier the last 12 months....
Also United operates 6 757 frequencies and 4 787 frequencies, so a sizeable chunk of UA's flights on the market are still their flagship 787s with Polaris pods... It's not just one or two flights. Yes, United's 757 product is not good but neither is DL's 767-300 product. They are both repadded versions of their older seats.
Walter Mitty Dunn, posts: “UA's operational failures because they won't retire older aircraft that are no longer supported such as the 777-200As”. All of 19 aircraft is my understanding of the straw to which you claw. Pathetic Walter, quite literally pathetic!
Even looking at FlightAware and all of Flightradar24 today, there is not a single -900ER. The -900ER is not normal on EWR LAX. You still have yet to provide a flight number for this supposed -900ER from EWR LAX. Regardless it's a one off and is not normal. You cannot treat it as such.
"and, yes, UA has the worst baggage handling ratio in the industry which means there is nothing premium about United service."
It's honestly getting really tragic that this is all Queen sTD has left to say on EVERY comment since multiple news sources are now discussing Delta's operational decline (WSJ) and overall "sitting on its laurels without innovation" (NYT)
Now all sTD has to say is "well United's MBR". MBR does matter but to a...
"and, yes, UA has the worst baggage handling ratio in the industry which means there is nothing premium about United service."
It's honestly getting really tragic that this is all Queen sTD has left to say on EVERY comment since multiple news sources are now discussing Delta's operational decline (WSJ) and overall "sitting on its laurels without innovation" (NYT)
Now all sTD has to say is "well United's MBR". MBR does matter but to a corporate or high yield traveler? not really. Find me the last high yield or corporate traveler that checks bags unless they're flying with their families somewhere.
He's now this completely out of comebacks. If you want to see how bad his brain and memory are, look at Tim's comments over on live and let's fly (delta is declining article from yesterday or the day before) claiming the entire Delta-AA interline dispute from 2015>2018 was about MBR. It's honestly weird and sad how separated from reality he is.
I think everyone knows it, but Tim's reality is different than everyone else -- you can provide 8 links to document a historical event -- it doesn't matter. His current obsession is Mishandled bags so now all of history is related to that.
Get some meds, Slugger.
Breaking news.
Based on the information revealed today.
Maybe it wasn't UA having the worst baggage handling ratio. Maybe he got confused with AS.
It was AS with the bag issues all along not UA.
All those UA bags misshandled, you thought were lost on EWR-LAX. It ended up on a 737 from AS.
The NPS scores would be higher if only the passengers knew about the RASM/CASM!
Problem 1 - The 767 is a tired bird. They should replace it with a newer and bigger jet.
Problem 2 - Constant staffing issues and much of it caused by Delta itself.
Problem 3 - coach service is abysmal. Coach should also serve a meal. And if not for free let people purchase something edible. Those chicken salad sandwiches are despicable.
Problem 4 - premium economy is the new business class...
Problem 1 - The 767 is a tired bird. They should replace it with a newer and bigger jet.
Problem 2 - Constant staffing issues and much of it caused by Delta itself.
Problem 3 - coach service is abysmal. Coach should also serve a meal. And if not for free let people purchase something edible. Those chicken salad sandwiches are despicable.
Problem 4 - premium economy is the new business class and should be doubled if not tripled in size on this route.
Problem 5 - Delta One lounges are great. The food is excellent. But on the plane everything is mediocre.
you truly should read Matthew over LALF's account of his experience on not just one but TWO bad UA 777s.
DL's fleet might be old - but not as old as UA - but it is reliable thanks to DL's worldclass maintenance operation.
again, half of UA's EWR-LAX flights are on 757s which have 2X2 business class and no premium economy as well as 737-900s in domestic configuration.
let us know how much different meal...
you truly should read Matthew over LALF's account of his experience on not just one but TWO bad UA 777s.
DL's fleet might be old - but not as old as UA - but it is reliable thanks to DL's worldclass maintenance operation.
again, half of UA's EWR-LAX flights are on 757s which have 2X2 business class and no premium economy as well as 737-900s in domestic configuration.
let us know how much different meal service in coach is on AA, UA or B6.
and don't forget that B6' on-time is much worse.
All DL is admitting is that NONE of the big 4 NYC carriers have a decent TCON product and passengers are complaining; DL just happens to be the only one honest enough to admit what is the case at AA, B6 and UA
The planes are old garbage, the service is abysmal, the lounges are overcrowded and not worth it, and the executives are evil. Be honest for once, Timbits.
UA has 777s that incessantly have engine failures while DL's 767-300ERs compete against UA's 757s.
only a homeless person at ORD could come to the conclusions you do.
Timbits:
1) I prefer the 757 to the 767? Widebodies are not always better. I prefer all Boeing narrowbodies to all Airpus widebodies.
2) I rarely fly United anymore. I'm an Executive Platinum and prouGordon's. So two instances of engine issues at SFO don't affect me.
3) Ed Bastian is a homophobe. That's the secret reason why Hauenstein resigned.
4) Delta FAs and ground agents are trained by women prison guards and have the personalities...
Timbits:
1) I prefer the 757 to the 767? Widebodies are not always better. I prefer all Boeing narrowbodies to all Airpus widebodies.
2) I rarely fly United anymore. I'm an Executive Platinum and prouGordon's. So two instances of engine issues at SFO don't affect me.
3) Ed Bastian is a homophobe. That's the secret reason why Hauenstein resigned.
4) Delta FAs and ground agents are trained by women prison guards and have the personalities of Gordon's.
I will expect you to cite facts when countering there facts, Timbers, not what the pixies in your head whisper to you.
Please point to the 737-900 on EWR-LAX today. I'll wait...
And yet Delta cancels 44% more flight in 2026 than UA.
Queen sTD
"you truly should read Matthew over LALF's account of his experience on not just one but TWO bad UA 777s."
omg. Are you now a fan of anecdotal experiences vs Delta's above industry average cancellation rate? We will all remember your love of anecdotal examples the next time you use them to portray percentages that don't exist.
But as the WSJ said this week -- Delta is a cancellation disaster in 2026...
Queen sTD
"you truly should read Matthew over LALF's account of his experience on not just one but TWO bad UA 777s."
omg. Are you now a fan of anecdotal experiences vs Delta's above industry average cancellation rate? We will all remember your love of anecdotal examples the next time you use them to portray percentages that don't exist.
But as the WSJ said this week -- Delta is a cancellation disaster in 2026 and well above the industry average cancellation rate and please point us to the weather that is causing these?
"DL just happens to be the only one honest enough to admit what is the case at AA, B6 and UA"
Weren't you below saying that we can't know this is real? So now we are crediting Delta for something that you suspect to be fake?
Also - UA does not fly B739s on EWR-LAX. They just categorically do not do this. I'm sure you will just keep repeating that line over and over again, but it isn't true.
… but United loses more suitcases ;)
yep, they sure do.
They also use 757s and 737-900ERs on their EWR-LAX flights.
Ben loves to harp on DL's 763s but he never can grasp - or at least admit - that DL's 763s are heavily competititve with UA's 757s or worse on domestic AND TATL routes.
the 767 has 2 aisles and also carries cargo.
and, yes, UA has the worst baggage handling ratio in the industry which means there is nothing premium about United service.
Glad the message is getting through.
From what I have been reading Walter, the Delta Airlines Boeing aircraft are old and well past their sell by date.
The Boeing 767-300 gets the most “Dated cabin” complaints.
The Boeing 757s which have not been refurbished are noted for being disliked too.
Other common complaints across the Boeing aircraft fleet include:
Aging interiors.
Small old bins and badly worn plastics.
Numerous worn out seats and tables.
...
From what I have been reading Walter, the Delta Airlines Boeing aircraft are old and well past their sell by date.
The Boeing 767-300 gets the most “Dated cabin” complaints.
The Boeing 757s which have not been refurbished are noted for being disliked too.
Other common complaints across the Boeing aircraft fleet include:
Aging interiors.
Small old bins and badly worn plastics.
Numerous worn out seats and tables.
Very old ‘third world’ IFE systems on certain aircraft.
Of course the Airbus aircraft are praised by customers …. no surprise there then!
Your written English has gone to ‘rats’ again Walter …. you naughty, naughty boy.
Delta cancels 44% more flights than United in 2026 and has trailed every month in on-time performance. No lie-flat in new A321 transcon aircraft, poor transcon NPS, no hard product consistency and no real high-speed for at least three years with LEO rocket launchpad explosion. Yikes!
Timmy
if you're going to mention 739s on LAX-EWR, at least look at who is flying them ;)
It's Alaska, not United. United is flying lie flat 752s but mostly wide bodies on LAX-EWR.
As usual, you don't bother knowing anything or even fact checking the slightest thing that pops into your head.
Don't be such a loser and, at least, try to not look so incredibly stupid.
UA flies lie-flats on the route. the 739 doesn't do the route.
No, Tim - American has the worst baggage handling ratio in the industry, not United (most recent statistics, 1st Q 2026... according to the government).
But why worry about details being correct, when you are looking for another opportunity to rant against your perceived "Enemy #1" in an attempt to either prop up or, more likely, obfuscate Delta's faltering operational statistics?
The aircraft are usually mediocre, but to be fair, as someone that lives in one of these markets and has lived in both. These are markets filled with entitled, complaining people. What might be a more interesting metric is how do the reviews on LA-NY on Delta compare to reviews on LA-NY on American and United. Also, Delta fares have gotten insane as of late. On the whole I prefer them, but at the end...
The aircraft are usually mediocre, but to be fair, as someone that lives in one of these markets and has lived in both. These are markets filled with entitled, complaining people. What might be a more interesting metric is how do the reviews on LA-NY on Delta compare to reviews on LA-NY on American and United. Also, Delta fares have gotten insane as of late. On the whole I prefer them, but at the end of the day, I'm completely fine to spend a few hundred less and take American or United. Its a 6 hour trans-con. It's not 3 months at sea.
I wonder if it has to do with that price differential. If you're paying a premium for Delta, you expect more. Their transcon fares have indeed become crazy on this route!
Big problem with Delta One of late is the cash price for tickets is a little less than 2x what American is charging on the route, with no reasoning behind the increase. They jacked the prices up almost a year ago where the RT cash fare is now 6K when it used to be 3-4K with no change in the metal other than an occasional A330 flying the route but predominantly the 767 in either format. Can't say I'm surprised by the lower NPS score at all.
HM, one understands that the “NPS” to which you are referring is also known as the Customer Net Promoter Score. Am I correct?
Assuming that I am correct then you may or may not be aware, that on the right side of the pond, the Harvard Business NPS mumbo jumbo, is being challenged here.
Basing one’s business plan, future or measure of success upon shingle question surveys has its critics, don’t you know?
It is most notable that even Jon does not claim this memo is real - but it didn't stop Gary or Ben from posting it as if it is gospel.
Let's be clear that Ben and Gary are much more focused on generating page clicks than in telling the truth regardless of what it is.
I give Jon credit for stating that he can't verify if it is true.
Let's be clear, though. Today,...
It is most notable that even Jon does not claim this memo is real - but it didn't stop Gary or Ben from posting it as if it is gospel.
Let's be clear that Ben and Gary are much more focused on generating page clicks than in telling the truth regardless of what it is.
I give Jon credit for stating that he can't verify if it is true.
Let's be clear, though. Today, 5 of DL's 11 flights from JFK to LAX are operating on aircraft other than 763s - a combination of 333s, 339s and 764s. JFK-LAX hasn't been exclusively and consistently 763 for quite some time
And right now, 2 of B6's flights are delayed while AA's flights are operating entirely on 321CEOs (Ts) and a couple of 777-200ERs.
Over at EWR, only 5 of UA's flights are on 787s and the rest of the flights are on 752 and, if you can believe it, 737-900ERs. UA doesn't even offer its own current generation product on half of its flights.
Just because DL admits - even if the memo is real - that NPS scores on the JFK transcons are below average, nobody in their right mind believes that AA is beating them with worn out 321Ts, or B6 - which might have the best onboard product but can't run a reliable operation - or over at EWR, UA which doesn't even use international configured aircraft on all its flights.
The transcons are high value routes and yet not a single airline is using their best aircraft and running them consistently well.
DL tells the truth that is almost certainly true at all of the 4 big NYC airlines.
Walter, you have quite obviously spent a considerable length time upon putting together your post above. Furthermore, your English language presentation has much improved too. Excellent progress, you will earn a gold star for effort if you keep working hard.
However, Walter, prattling on about AA, UA and B6, is all irrelevant gobbledygook …. Yes? Instead of spending hours refining your rhetoric, you might have been better advised to answer a few previous asked questions....
Walter, you have quite obviously spent a considerable length time upon putting together your post above. Furthermore, your English language presentation has much improved too. Excellent progress, you will earn a gold star for effort if you keep working hard.
However, Walter, prattling on about AA, UA and B6, is all irrelevant gobbledygook …. Yes? Instead of spending hours refining your rhetoric, you might have been better advised to answer a few previous asked questions. For example: Are you claiming to be a pilot in your post …. “That's why you fly simulators and I fly real aircraft”. It really sounds like it to me Walter, don’t you know?
Tim, what flight # is this UA 737-900ER? I have never heard of UA operating a 739 from EWR - LAX. I'd like to see it. Genuinely curious.
Delta got greedy with lots of small cuts to their onboard product, including the offerings, aircraft and aircraft cleanliness and IFE.
While many are small (no more specialty cocktails, meals served all as one course, slower cycles of IFE content refresh and poorly cleaned seats) they add up and customers notice a lot more than DL thought they would while trying to squeeze a few more dollars of profit.
Delta's scores will only get worse. Delta will be waiting forever on the Amazon internet. Internet is imperative on a cross-country flight. No fast internet on Delta for many years.
I'm really glad United is getting those Coastliner planes for their return to JFK. They have terrible 8-abreast J on a lot of their premium transcon flights from Newark.
I cannot wait until United flies out of JFK again and see how quick Delta changes. The clock is ticking.
We fly Delta and find the ATL to TPA aircraft old and worn out similar to the cabin crew who ignore passengers reclining seat before take off.
I think DL past reputation can no longer cover for reality. UA and AA have both improved their products. AA XLR (love or hate them) do have a much more modern and premium experience plus AA food is better than both UA and DL hands down. DL now isn't the DL of the past and people are starting to see this. With UA a stronger international competitor and AA focusing on premium, DL can no...
I think DL past reputation can no longer cover for reality. UA and AA have both improved their products. AA XLR (love or hate them) do have a much more modern and premium experience plus AA food is better than both UA and DL hands down. DL now isn't the DL of the past and people are starting to see this. With UA a stronger international competitor and AA focusing on premium, DL can no longer rest on it's past reputation, but seems like they continue to do that. Just adding more premium seats isn't enough, that old fleet has caught up with them and the loss of $ in SEA and BOS and failed South American partnership (let's fact is AA owns that region from the US) they continue to be cheap and will need to spend some of those profits soon or fall back further.
B6 manifests a much stronger hard and soft product. Ground experience is so-so but I would much prefer a superior in-flight experience. I’ve switched all my transcon travel to B6 mint. (The economy experience is also better imo)
Agree, both business and economy are better products, and the price point is one of the least expensive in either cabin.
Does Delta have plans to replace the ancient 767s on JFK-LAX route in the near term? What equipment will DL use to eventually replace them?
Just spitballing here. Put the 339s on JFK-LAX, put the 76s on the current 339 routes, and do the international D1 service on the transcons. Problem solved. If it's important, fix it.
Now cue all the people explaining why this is impossible.
Yes, the planes are the issue. It's especially jarring to now go from such a lovely lounge experience to such a terrible hard product.
There is speculation in the posts below about what Walter Mitty Dunn, might post on this Delta Airlines article. As he has failed to raise to the various challenges facing his credibility, one can only wonder what is occurring inside that tiny brain cell of his …. I know …. “Not a lot”, is likely to be the resounding response …. :-)
Delta social media should pay him not to post.
I assume Queen sTD is just on a Delta flight ATL> Asia -- aka. has no wifi and won't for 12-14 hours.
Max, if he is who he claims to be, then he could be living his dream. I quote from one of his recent posts: “That's why you fly simulators and I fly real aircraft”. Is he pretending to be a pilot as the post implies. Is he cabin crew or simply a poor coach passenger?
I assume he's traveling on a delta employee's guess passes since his posts on any aviation website betray profound ignorance and social ineptitude in every aspect of life.
Imagine being this social personality in real life? I don't think work is going well for him -- evidenced by nonstop commenting.
this post has been up for four hours and he's not here yet. weird...
If the route was so important to Delta maybe make actual investments, such as not flying aircraft with far-too-old cabins and maintenance issues and bring back the pre-covid economy light meals that AA has kept. If this is real it’s ambitious for DL to think pilot communications will help
As noted by you and many of the commentators. The problem is the Equipment !!! The 767 seats are too narrow in D1. The product is really inconsistent as well, ranging from close to 20 year old seats to brand new.
One point against this being real, "Recent data show..." is British grammar, not American.
No it’s not. Brits would use “shows”
Ronnie is correct actually.
Data are plural, the singular form would be datum.
Every online source I can see says that British grammar typically treats data as a plural collective noun (e.g. Delta say that...) vs American grammar treating data as a singular noun, similar to Delta says that...
Reading between the lines that the message was written to Pilots (who can manage reliability partially, safety, and communication around delays), the message talks about delays at JFK not always being in their control, and no mention of in-cabin soft/hard product service, what's 'driving this' - according to management - IS reliability.
If it were a soft/hard product or service issue, then wouldn't that message go to FAs?
Regardless, DL has always stood...
Reading between the lines that the message was written to Pilots (who can manage reliability partially, safety, and communication around delays), the message talks about delays at JFK not always being in their control, and no mention of in-cabin soft/hard product service, what's 'driving this' - according to management - IS reliability.
If it were a soft/hard product or service issue, then wouldn't that message go to FAs?
Regardless, DL has always stood for 'Down Low' to me, so nothing's really changed. When any company is focused on "high-profile customers, business travelers, and social media influencers", you've instantly alienated a huge segment of your customer base telling them "we don't care about you." This hyper-focused mentality on monetization as the driving force of success of any company is a corollary to the reason an orange incontinent is crafting a cage on the south lawn.
You're not wrong. This is a byproduct of a company that decided it wanted to be a lifestyle brand more than anything else.
To be fair, we dont yet know that a similar message was not sent to FAs.
Just that this is the one that was leaked.
But yeah - I do actually wish pilots were generally more forthcoming on delays (and this is far from a DL-only problem, imo). Seems to be totally personal choice, and I always appreciate the more vocal ones or the ones that give more frequent updates. Makes a huge difference.
Just another example of "we broke it, you fix it" from what was once a great airline.
What does Tim Dunn say ?
does anyone actually care?
When the troll decides to stay in his cave, let him stay.
Timmy is in meltdown mode at the ER
Pay the high fares and then get substandard performance .
JonNYC strikes again!
I've never experienced a delay on this route in the last 18 months (I've been on five or so segments in D1 in this time), however the service itself is lackluster. It's like night and day between the lounge, which I never want to leave, and the plane itself, where the FAs always seem to be angry. They have never taken my coat. Drinks are placed on the side of the seat...
JonNYC strikes again!
I've never experienced a delay on this route in the last 18 months (I've been on five or so segments in D1 in this time), however the service itself is lackluster. It's like night and day between the lounge, which I never want to leave, and the plane itself, where the FAs always seem to be angry. They have never taken my coat. Drinks are placed on the side of the seat with no words spoken. Layer the crap hard product onto this, and the experience is extremely underwhelming, especially for the premium they charge for the D1 "service" on this route.
"the FAs always seem to be angry" . So , give them a smile .
Why do they put their oldest plane on their most important route
I expect their timeline for fast satellite-based internet just took a hit last night with Blue Origin’s unexpected rapid oxidation event.
>>>Blue Origin’s unexpected rapid oxidation event.<<<
That's gold.
Standards have slipped since COVID on most carriers. Airlines can be complacent with the huge increase in premium flyers suffering FOMO and endless vloggers, bloggers and “influencers” filling planes and people willing to pay insane sums for pale, dull product and service. From personal experience, it also matters from which base the crew hails. Don’t wish to paint everyone with the same brush, but generally ATL, MSP, SEA, LAX folks are first class, DTW and...
Standards have slipped since COVID on most carriers. Airlines can be complacent with the huge increase in premium flyers suffering FOMO and endless vloggers, bloggers and “influencers” filling planes and people willing to pay insane sums for pale, dull product and service. From personal experience, it also matters from which base the crew hails. Don’t wish to paint everyone with the same brush, but generally ATL, MSP, SEA, LAX folks are first class, DTW and JFK not so much.
Delta’s product is not that great for what they charge. They are often late, with old planes, crappy service while charging a premium fare.
You used to be able to fly Alaska on this route in first class for about 1/2 or 1/3 of the cost of Delta. The plane might not have been as wide but you got a lot more for the price.
I completely agree, but what was a better experience over the past 12 months? AA also gave Flagship lounge access (but obviously those lounges are significantly worse than D1) and has just as old planes with pathetic F&B, only having just rolled out newer planes with seats that are apparently bad coffins. UA has just as old 757s, with the occasional 787 which is a truly good product but only gave regular club lounge access....
I completely agree, but what was a better experience over the past 12 months? AA also gave Flagship lounge access (but obviously those lounges are significantly worse than D1) and has just as old planes with pathetic F&B, only having just rolled out newer planes with seats that are apparently bad coffins. UA has just as old 757s, with the occasional 787 which is a truly good product but only gave regular club lounge access. JetBlue Mint is fantastic but no lounges, unreliable, and less frequencies. And that's the last of the lie-flats on the route.
So I guess it just depends on whether you preferred a stellar airport & poor in-flight experience, or an okay airport & better in-flight experience. UA will soon be the best all-in experience with Polaris access and a 787 transcon.
AS F product on transcon routes is basically equivalent to PE on the widebodies. From that standpoint, the prices are roughly the same.
Unfortunately, the sad truth on Delta is that they have allowed their flight attendants to become complacent, uncaring, and downright lazy. Their lack of professionalism, friendliness, and genuine attention to detail has made this a second class airline. I say this as someone who typically flies first class domestically in the U.S. and business class internationally. I have over 2.5 million lifetime flight miles with Delta and was previously one of their biggest champions. The...
Unfortunately, the sad truth on Delta is that they have allowed their flight attendants to become complacent, uncaring, and downright lazy. Their lack of professionalism, friendliness, and genuine attention to detail has made this a second class airline. I say this as someone who typically flies first class domestically in the U.S. and business class internationally. I have over 2.5 million lifetime flight miles with Delta and was previously one of their biggest champions. The constant slide in customer service began before COVID, but was never corrected after that. Delta seems to have focused on becoming a bank or financial institution and not on maintaining their strong relationships with their loyal customers.
Well said, @TerryATL. I'm nearing 1M miles with Delta but switching to United for the reasons you mentioned. I also fly premium cabin exclusively, and while my United experience has been average and similar to post-Covid Delta so far, their fares are generally lower than Delta's.
Agreed @TerryATL. I am also a 2MM who has become disillusioned with DL.
Their operational performance has tanked. Standard SkyClubs resemble the Port Authority bus terminal. Junior FAs who want to do nothing and then run to the rally and cry every time someone hurts their feelings. Lousy (albeit) free wifi. Inconsistent hard product that is way long in the tooth.
This is not the DL of the 2000's and 2010's. I no longer...
Agreed @TerryATL. I am also a 2MM who has become disillusioned with DL.
Their operational performance has tanked. Standard SkyClubs resemble the Port Authority bus terminal. Junior FAs who want to do nothing and then run to the rally and cry every time someone hurts their feelings. Lousy (albeit) free wifi. Inconsistent hard product that is way long in the tooth.
This is not the DL of the 2000's and 2010's. I no longer go out of my way to fly them and, at times like this summer with their horrible operational issues, actively avoid flying them.
Come on over, the United water is warm!
Absolutely agree. The decline started during COVID, when nearly 4,000 experienced, old-school Flight Attendants took buyouts and left the airline. These were career professionals who understood hospitality, work ethic, and customer service at the highest level. Shortly after, Ed Bastian publicly stated that hiring standards would shift in the name of “inclusivity,” and the results have been impossible to ignore.
Today, many crews seem disengaged, indifferent, and at times outright hostile toward passengers. I fly...
Absolutely agree. The decline started during COVID, when nearly 4,000 experienced, old-school Flight Attendants took buyouts and left the airline. These were career professionals who understood hospitality, work ethic, and customer service at the highest level. Shortly after, Ed Bastian publicly stated that hiring standards would shift in the name of “inclusivity,” and the results have been impossible to ignore.
Today, many crews seem disengaged, indifferent, and at times outright hostile toward passengers. I fly Delta an average of six times a month, so this isn’t based on one bad experience — it’s a consistent pattern I’ve personally witnessed over the last several years. I’ve seen Flight Attendants treat passengers in ways that would have been unthinkable on Delta a decade ago.
Ironically, on a recent D1 flight to Europe, my Flight Attendant was outstanding — warm, polished, attentive, and professional. She told me she had been with Delta for 32 years, which immediately made sense. But even she couldn’t overcome what Delta has allowed the product itself to become. The entrée served in Delta One was essentially the same mediocre meal I recently received in domestic First Class. Delta One used to rival — and sometimes surpass — some of the best international business-class products in the world. Now it feels like a watered-down version of what it once was.
It’s honestly a shame. Ed Bastian spent years helping build Delta into the premier U.S. carrier, only to undermine much of that progress in a remarkably short period of time. In the pursuit of corporate optics and political correctness, the airline lost much of the culture, professionalism, and pride that once made it exceptional. Unfortunately, that may end up being his legacy.
lets guess his reponse i'll go first:
"nice to see Im mentioned before I even arrive" "yOu dO rEaLiZe" "mention of UA baggage handling" "mention of AA profitability" "ad hominem attack" "strawman argument" "logical fallacy" "CASM/RASM"
It’s like a game of Bingo..,
Don’t forget SUITES with DOORS!
I know some folks get bent out of shape if they don't get their welcome bellini within eight seconds of arrival at their throne, but I think the number one issue is reliability - will the flight arrive on time. DL, having once been the champion of timeliness, has absolutely lost that edge (as this notes), and no plushness of seat or unlimited drinks will make up for unexplained delays. Despite the "dated product," DL...
I know some folks get bent out of shape if they don't get their welcome bellini within eight seconds of arrival at their throne, but I think the number one issue is reliability - will the flight arrive on time. DL, having once been the champion of timeliness, has absolutely lost that edge (as this notes), and no plushness of seat or unlimited drinks will make up for unexplained delays. Despite the "dated product," DL is the only carrier that ops exclusively widebodies on the route.
Makes sense. Delta flies terrible outdated aircraft on these routes. Old, tired 767s with the old Delta One cabin just repadded. The only nice plane they have on the route is the 767-400's they actually bothered to retrofit with real Delta One suites, minus the doors. And the single A330neo frequency they run.
United is no exception to this either as they run the old, repadded 757 cabin in "Polaris" (the old Diamond seats) which...
Makes sense. Delta flies terrible outdated aircraft on these routes. Old, tired 767s with the old Delta One cabin just repadded. The only nice plane they have on the route is the 767-400's they actually bothered to retrofit with real Delta One suites, minus the doors. And the single A330neo frequency they run.
United is no exception to this either as they run the old, repadded 757 cabin in "Polaris" (the old Diamond seats) which is not great either. But at least United runs multiple flagship 787-9's and 787-10's a day between EWR - LAX with full Polaris pods.
Economy class on both is great and especially with some United aircraft having Bluetooth equipped throughout the entire cabin.
Delta should just tell people as they board that United has the worst baggage handling rates in the industry.
JFK-LAX is in the top 3 busiest and most lucrative US domestic routes. Delta flies mostly the 767-300ER on this route, with the occasional A330 thrown in, and some 767-400ERs. The premium cabin experience (Delta One) on the 763/764 are subpar, particularly on the 763, which is a very dated product, narrow seats, and definitely not premium or worth the hype or upsell. The 764 Delta One seat is narrow and while a bit more...
JFK-LAX is in the top 3 busiest and most lucrative US domestic routes. Delta flies mostly the 767-300ER on this route, with the occasional A330 thrown in, and some 767-400ERs. The premium cabin experience (Delta One) on the 763/764 are subpar, particularly on the 763, which is a very dated product, narrow seats, and definitely not premium or worth the hype or upsell. The 764 Delta One seat is narrow and while a bit more modern, a work around to account for the fuselage. The 763/764 fleets are older too and prone to maintenance issues. You will also find a dated product on the occasional A330 flying JFK-LAX but for the A339. Premium Economy (Delta Comfort+) is actually a better experience than Delta One on these planes. Delta Economy is the winner. There's the problem.
Old mate TD is typing furiously away as I type this.