A few days ago, Delta officially announced plans to launch an exciting new long haul route, as had been predicted by JonNYC. I want to provide a quick update, as the schedule for the flight has now been published, and flights are expected to go on sale in the next few days, so let’s cover everything we know.
In this post:
Delta will return to Hong Kong after eight years
As of June 6, 2026, Delta will launch daily nonstop flights between Los Angeles (LAX) and Hong Kong (HKG). The flight will operate with the following schedule:
DL5 Los Angeles to Hong Kong departing 11:30PM arriving 5:00AM (+2 days)
DL6 Hong Kong to Los Angeles departing 9:25AM arriving 8:00AM
This is a pretty standard transpacific schedule, though I’ll note that the flight out of Hong Kong limits the amount of connectivity there. That’s not surprising, since clearly Delta’s focus is on serving the Hong Kong market, rather than those connecting beyond there (who will be routed through Incheon).
The 7,260-mile flight is blocked at 14hr30min westbound and 13hr35min eastbound. Delta will use an Airbus A350-900 for the 7,260-mile flight, featuring 275 seats. This includes 40 business class seats, 40 premium economy seats, 36 extra legroom economy seats, and 159 economy seats.
For context, the company last operated this exact route all the way back in 1995. Meanwhile, Delta pulled out of Hong Kong back in 2018, which the airline described as a “difficult business decision.” At the time, the airline served Hong Kong out of Seattle (SEA), where it has been building up a long haul hub in recent years.
However, Delta’s transpacific network has so heavily been focused on routing everything through Seoul Incheon (ICN), given that Delta has a transpacific joint venture with Korean Air. Delta also has a respectable presence at Tokyo Haneda (HND), but aside from that, service to Asia is very limited.
Los Angeles is a surprising gateway, no?
I can’t help but find it interesting that Delta plans to return to Hong Kong out of Los Angeles, rather than out of Seattle.
For one, the Los Angeles to Hong Kong route is already very well served, with United operating two times daily flights, and Cathay Pacific operating three times daily flights. So Delta’s service to Hong Kong won’t exactly be competitive.
Meanwhile Seattle to Hong Kong has no service from any airlines. Delta’s transpacific service to Asia out of Los Angeles is otherwise limited to Shanghai (PVG) and Tokyo Haneda. The airline operates flights to the South Pacific, but that’s a distinct market.
So I’m not sure what to make of Delta now wanting to resume flights to Hong Kong out of Los Angeles, rather than Seattle, where the carrier has a bigger transpacific network and less competition. Is Delta dabbling with the thought of shifting more transpacific capacity out of Seattle and to Los Angeles, or what’s the logic here, exactly? If anything, one would think that Delta would keep building up its Seattle presence at the moment, to beat Alaska to the punch on expansion.
Clearly this is an area where Delta is trying to catch up with United, and will operate with a significant disadvantage. United has four daily flights from the West Coast to Hong Kong, while Delta will have one. And that says nothing of United’s much greater connectivity at its two West Coast hubs.
Also as of June 2026, Delta will be launching a new route from Los Angeles to Chicago (ORD), with three daily flights. That service is obviously much less interesting than Hong Kong, but it’s still noteworthy how Delta is entering two markets where United is quite strong. Funny enough, United CEO Scott Kirby has stated he feels complimented that Delta is launching these routes, and predicts the airline will lose money in these markets.
Bottom line
Delta has announced plans to launch a new route between Los Angeles and Hong Kong. The daily service will start as of June 2026, with flights operated by the A350-900.
Delta pulled out of Hong Kong in 2018, with the route at the time being out of Seattle. Delta has been so heavily focused on its transpacific joint venture with Korean Air, and funneling passengers through Seoul Incheon. This is all super interesting, and I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
What do you make of Delta launching Los Angeles to Hong Kong flights?
As an Indonesian, both ways this Delta routing is actually gonna connect very well with our Garuda Indonesia GA860/861 to and from Jakarta Indonesia cos its literally:
23.50 Jakarta - 05.45 Hong Kong (all local times) and it's only recently being retimed from previously 10-ish AM departure out of Jakarta so you can calculate the return boarding time is gonna be 09.30 AM Hong Kong time (BRUH GARUDA'S OWN FLIGHT SCHEDULE IS LITERALLY JUST...
As an Indonesian, both ways this Delta routing is actually gonna connect very well with our Garuda Indonesia GA860/861 to and from Jakarta Indonesia cos its literally:
23.50 Jakarta - 05.45 Hong Kong (all local times) and it's only recently being retimed from previously 10-ish AM departure out of Jakarta so you can calculate the return boarding time is gonna be 09.30 AM Hong Kong time (BRUH GARUDA'S OWN FLIGHT SCHEDULE IS LITERALLY JUST 15 MINUTES DIFFERENT THAN THE NEARBY CATHAY PACIFIC FLIGHTS SERVING JAKARTA AND THE WAY BACK LIKE OMG NOW AT LEAST THERE'S CHEAPER OPTION OTHER THAN THE "MOSTLY OVERPRICED" CATHAY PACIFIC LMFAO)
The following tells you all you need to know.
"As analyzed by OMAAT, United already has a strong presence in the trans-Pacific market, with daily services from LAX and SFO direct to Hong Kong. This year, United has already increased capacity on services to Asia by 6%, resulting in a 9% overall increase in unit revenue. This is compared to Delta's 11% capacity increase, with a 1% reduction in unit revenue."
Yikes!
Come on American Airlines, what are you doing? Do they even still have international flights at LAX at this point?
DL has largely not done westbound redeyes so this flight is unusual in that it could be flown at commercially viable times either as a daytime or nighttime flight and yet DL chose the nighttime schedule. This schedule does maximize connectivity across DL's network but also means that the plane will have available time on the ground in LAX when it only works for flights to NE Asia including a potential future ICN flight.
All the South Pacific flights are westbound redeyes...
actually, they are predominantly southbound. it should be clear that I was speaking about US to E. Asia.
Many Asian airlines have overnight westbound TPAC flights but largely to cities in Taiwan and south.
DL's only consistent westbound flight is 1 of 2 flights on ATL-ICN which is about the longest TPAC flight from the US to Japan or S. Korea and still arrives before dawn most of the year.
In contrast,...
actually, they are predominantly southbound. it should be clear that I was speaking about US to E. Asia.
Many Asian airlines have overnight westbound TPAC flights but largely to cities in Taiwan and south.
DL's only consistent westbound flight is 1 of 2 flights on ATL-ICN which is about the longest TPAC flight from the US to Japan or S. Korea and still arrives before dawn most of the year.
In contrast, UA has a whole bank of westbound redeye flights from SFO to cities in E. Asia and they do it in part because of great connectivity to the rest of the US and because they do not need to get connections from those E. Asian cities although the morning arrival still allows connections beyond those cities.
The timing is pretty terrible for point to point going West. Clearly seems to be about getting US connections.
Who wants to arrive at 5am or fly out of HKG at 9am?
there are any number of arguments about why any carrier uses the times they do but CX and UA both use the same time channel that DL will use going westbound and UA mirrors DL's schedule coming back to the US. DL and UA have no better access to connections at HKG and DL does have a larger domestic operation at LAX.
As for AA above, THAT is the real travesty that AA can't make LAX-HKG work again given that CX is a oneworld partner, even if outside a JV
Why wouldnt Delta try JFK to HKG? Cathay and (i think) United are in that market as well, but I would assume plenty of premium traffic to economically power JFK-HKG service.
as of right now, JFK-HKG requires significant detours because of Russia airspace closures. It would likely be an 18 hour flight.
DEL-ATL might well run that long and DL's most capable A350-900s are able to do it but DL is starting with LAX-HKG.
I wouldn't be surprised if DL starts a number of JFK to Asia flights esp. to destinations which AA and UA can never do with any aircraft other than the A350
except UA does SFO-SIN with 787s and the new 787-9 coming from Boeing in late 2026 will have more range.
"except UA does SFO-SIN with 787s and the new 787-9 coming from Boeing in late 2026 will have more range."
The newest A350-900s still have a nearly 2hrs-flight time advantage over the improved 787-9, and the 322 tonne tanked A350-1000s can toss another 3 hours on top of that.
There's simply being built today that can match the range offered by the two A350 types. Boeing's 777-8 eventually will be competitive, with likely added payload,...
"except UA does SFO-SIN with 787s and the new 787-9 coming from Boeing in late 2026 will have more range."
The newest A350-900s still have a nearly 2hrs-flight time advantage over the improved 787-9, and the 322 tonne tanked A350-1000s can toss another 3 hours on top of that.
There's simply being built today that can match the range offered by the two A350 types. Boeing's 777-8 eventually will be competitive, with likely added payload, but they haven't even gotten the 777-9 approved yet, so it'll be a while before that.
Yes, but then you earn sky pesos, and have to fly delta, maybe on a LATAM jet. Lose lose, sticking with my cathay business and crediting to the world's #1 airline, AA.
Why none of the US airlines consider ONT instead of LAX to HKG? Currently only Starlux and China Airlines have routes going from ONT to TPE...
No feeder, no staff, low yield. ONT has a terrible remote international arrivals facility which is like a shed. They need to build a decent one between the existing terminals.
It is notable that with this route, DL will serve more longhaul international destinations from LAX than UA including some of the S. Pacific seasonal stuff.
We heard for quite some time about UA's leadership in the int'l market from LAX and, as I suspected, DL execs bristled at ceding anything to UA in a market where they are the largest domestic carrier.
it is also noteworthy how people find such confusion over DL's...
It is notable that with this route, DL will serve more longhaul international destinations from LAX than UA including some of the S. Pacific seasonal stuff.
We heard for quite some time about UA's leadership in the int'l market from LAX and, as I suspected, DL execs bristled at ceding anything to UA in a market where they are the largest domestic carrier.
it is also noteworthy how people find such confusion over DL's 2 hub west coast strategy with LAX and SEA while UA does the same at SFO and LAX.
HND and PVG are common to both DL's LAX and SEA hubs, ICN is a JV route from both hubs and operates on DL metal from SEA, TPE and HKG are each non-JV hub destinations and one each gets served from each hub.
let's see how DL's SEA and LAX TPAC hubs develop but the chances are high that there will be at least one new E. Asia route per year from DL's west coast hubs - and some routes will operate from eastern US hubs.
Loser.
Delta is a Europe international player, they cant and don't compete in Asia.
"Delta is a Europe international player, they cant and don't compete in Asia."
Rather dumb comment, when you realize that Delta is the only US carrier that flies to China from east of the Mississippi. It's also the only US carrier that flies to multiple Asian cities (Shanghai, Seoul, Tokyo) from the east as well, while United and American only serve Tokyo. Delta competes to Asia just fine.
When will Delta launch JFK to Asia? I miss those 747s a lot.
I miss Northwest's 747s; the only logical destination would be HND as you can funnel traffic through ICN with KE.
DL is very methodical and takes on strategies that they can develop.
No other carrier has grown even close to 4 hubs at airports where other currently existing carriers are still dominant.
DL has grown hubs over the past 20 years at BOS, LGA, JFK, LAX and SEA and is the largest carrier at all of those hubs except SEA where it is the largest international carrier - a title that some are happy...
DL is very methodical and takes on strategies that they can develop.
No other carrier has grown even close to 4 hubs at airports where other currently existing carriers are still dominant.
DL has grown hubs over the past 20 years at BOS, LGA, JFK, LAX and SEA and is the largest carrier at all of those hubs except SEA where it is the largest international carrier - a title that some are happy to have bestowed on UA at LAX but can't understand how DL can succeed w/ that title at SEA.
DL will add JFK to Asia but that is honestly one of the last pieces of becoming a truly global airline.
The hubs from which airlines serve the world do not make them any more or less global. The fact that DL has a strong balance of coastal and interior US hubs which it can use for international service IS the key difference between DL and either AA or UA.
I wasn't casting aspersions or questioning their "globalness." I love Delta, I'm all JFK and LGA departures, and I fondly remember flights to NRT upstairs on the 747 from JFK. The question was selfish. I wanna be able to fly my preferred brand and metal direct to HND and/or ICN. I tried Korean once on the 380. Between the joy of JFK T1 (joke) and the cabin temp set at 120 degrees, never doing that again. And so I wait for DL.
Would you still call the new T1 a joke?
I think you will get your chance.
DL doesn't fly the A350 to JFK and isn't going to drop an A350 flight or two into JFK at a time.
They will move decisively enough to add multiple flights in a short enough period of time.
I believe, ICN and BOM are probably on that list, they will go for JFK-HND when it comes up again - which it will based on history, and even...
I think you will get your chance.
DL doesn't fly the A350 to JFK and isn't going to drop an A350 flight or two into JFK at a time.
They will move decisively enough to add multiple flights in a short enough period of time.
I believe, ICN and BOM are probably on that list, they will go for JFK-HND when it comes up again - which it will based on history, and even HKG is within range of DL's high performance A350s even w/ Russian airspace restrictions. If DL is willing to take on UA at LAX, they won't hesitate in NYC where they now have a 2 to 1 advantage in domestic size.
DL is simply focusing on the western US to E. Asia because that is where they have been weaker relative to UA. DL has had a larger presence to E. Asia from the eastern US than UA since covid.
Who cares? Once cropdusters, always cropdusters.
the fact that DL was the 6th largest US passenger airline in 1978 when deregulation started and is now the largest in revenue in the world and most profitable US airline is what you really wish to be able to ignore.
because its a domestic airline, that makes money on Americans with "credit cards"
@Tim Dunn,
Why take the bait from an obvious troll account?
Let's not forget that Delta also flew the Detroit - Hong Kong route for a number of years. It was great!
Detroit-Nagoya as well as their small mini-hub!
I think that Delta's strategy is just different from some of the other US carriers focusing on partnerships. Having flights to HKG again is not as strange as it may seem because there are a lot of connections to partners and other airlines out of HKG. Furthermore, it does give another entry point to China with China Eastern flying to many Chinese destinations as well. That area of the world is dominated by OneWorld anyway...
Yes - connections to Vietnam Airlines and Garuda Indonesia, although many Vietnamese and Indonesians traditionally transit via ICN or HND/NRT to USA. They may switch if the price is right.
They need to just open a JFK-ICN and/or JFK-HND flight on the a350. They are playing themselves put of easy money. People from Asia would LOVE to come to New York and vise versa, they need to stop focusing so heavily on the West Coast.
I agree. I’m sure there are also New Yorkers who would love to fly the a350. Asiana’s midnight flight from jfk to Seoul is not showing up in 2026 schedules considering the Korean air acquisition jfk-icn on delta could happen 2026 2027ish
I guarantee you that people from Asia and vice versa are going to New York.. they're flying on other airlines and not letting Delta's lack of a nonstop flight keep them from doing so.
It's because of Russian overflight restrictions.
Good. Should’ve never left HKG in the first place.
American, could we step it up before we become totally irrelevant in LAX?!
AA partners with Cathay. AA also NEVER transferred any miles to cathay frequent flyer number from cathay, as their agreement requires. Who cares about AA
I agree that the choice of LAX for this route seems strange, if only because of competition. Yes, LA is a huge market but it appears there are already 5 daily services, 2 on UA and 3 on Cathay. That'll a huge capacity. By contrast, there is no nonstop service to HKG from SEA at present. Yes, DL likely has more feed into LAX than SEA but the distance from the East Coast or most...
I agree that the choice of LAX for this route seems strange, if only because of competition. Yes, LA is a huge market but it appears there are already 5 daily services, 2 on UA and 3 on Cathay. That'll a huge capacity. By contrast, there is no nonstop service to HKG from SEA at present. Yes, DL likely has more feed into LAX than SEA but the distance from the East Coast or most of the Midwest to SEA is about the same as to LAX and the distance from SEA to HKG is shorter than from LAX.
Someone pointed out that there is no longer domestic D1 service into SEA but DL could fix that if there were sufficient demand. (I suspect there wasn't much demand for it in SEA at inflated prices--there is at LAX.). There is a shiny new D1 Lounge at SEA, however.
It was also pointed out that DL might want to get ahead of AS by restarting HKG service before AS can. It's probably fair to point out that AS would have feed at both ends if they started SEA-HKG service (HKG is Cathy's home airport and both AS and CX are in oneworld). DL will possibly have good feed from the USA but not from HKG, which makes HKG service risky for them irrespective of the US airport from which flights operate.
it's all about where DL's customers say they want service and are willing to pay for it.
DL carries more corporate traffic than any other US airline.
SEA has a geographic advantage but is very competitive and is a much smaller local market.
If DL is entering a market that already has as many flights as LAX-HKG does, they have a pretty good idea they can get the corporate business they need to make...
it's all about where DL's customers say they want service and are willing to pay for it.
DL carries more corporate traffic than any other US airline.
SEA has a geographic advantage but is very competitive and is a much smaller local market.
If DL is entering a market that already has as many flights as LAX-HKG does, they have a pretty good idea they can get the corporate business they need to make the route work.
Also, this could be a competitive play to limit UA's ambitions in LAX and ensure that DL's international presence is the largest just as it is domestically.
and if the single post below is correct that DL is restarting LAX-LHR again, they might be taking the approach of putting enough capacity into LAX to make it clear that they intend to keep the routes they launch. UA is a tough competitor but they can't engage in market share wars and reach their profitability goals, esp. as they have to increase pay for so many employees.
LAX is a competitive market and this could be the defining moment as to which of DL or UA will be the largest carrier in the international market. Remember that AA had to knock UA around in order to grow to the size AA was in - including serving both China and HKG, only to discontinue both and leaving an opening for UA.
@Tim Dunn--you make interesting points but I question how important business traffic is at the present time. It seems to have decreased in importance considerably since the pandemic.
Do you (or anyone else, for that matter) have any statistics about HKG travel? These days, I tend to think of it as a VFR and tourism market. It used to be a big transit hub, too, but it's unlikely any carrier other than CX can take...
@Tim Dunn--you make interesting points but I question how important business traffic is at the present time. It seems to have decreased in importance considerably since the pandemic.
Do you (or anyone else, for that matter) have any statistics about HKG travel? These days, I tend to think of it as a VFR and tourism market. It used to be a big transit hub, too, but it's unlikely any carrier other than CX can take advantage of that. Does anyone know what percentage of HKG traffic is O/D vs. connecting to/from elsewhere?
DL gonna get swamped here. Will look forward to them cutting and running.
It is actually UA with their excess capacity on the west coast to HKG that is at risk.
Throw in incentives that DL will get and a bigger aircraft w/ better cargo capacity out of one of the world's top cargo airports and DL could be the one with a significant advantage.
It is ironic that someone with a user name like yours thanks that DL will be at a disadvantage when DL played...
It is actually UA with their excess capacity on the west coast to HKG that is at risk.
Throw in incentives that DL will get and a bigger aircraft w/ better cargo capacity out of one of the world's top cargo airports and DL could be the one with a significant advantage.
It is ironic that someone with a user name like yours thanks that DL will be at a disadvantage when DL played its cards in NYC beautifully and has gained 7 NYC market share points while UA's operation at EWR spectacularly imploded and the FAA imposed deep capacity cuts that may not ever be lifted.
You've had fun cheering on since covid. It was a given that UA's steam would run out and DL would step up.
that time is now.
UA is in a tailspin. DL keeps climbing.
lol the way his username is "UA-NYC"....like yeah okay, keep it moving buddy
None of these airlines know y'all exist or would piss on y'all if y'all were on fire
Thank you. The constant bickering is actually ridiculous
I just want Delta to expand the Italian route network from Detroit.
Delta has a much larger feed at LAX than SEA.
it just occurred to me that Delta's the official airline partner of both team USA and LA2028. Maybe this is a reach but could they be significantly ramping up operations at LAX to step into LA2028 with a dominant footing at LAX? with worldwide exposure and marketing, perhaps they want to play their cards right and lean into their advantage here?
From a more recent post from JonNYC:
"On the heels of the DL LAX-HKG news, look for DL to be actively defending it’s turf/position at LAX, I’d look for more to come, more dots on map, actively defending/bolstering their #1 position there"
Excited to see what else Delta has up its sleeve.
I wonder if there’s a chance that they could beat United to the punch on BKK?
I've been saying for years that DL understands well the value of coastal hubs in winning corporate and credit card revenue - and it leads the industry in both categories.
Yes, DL spend the money for new terminals and the Olympics sponsorships as part of its plan to grow its presence at LAX.
Just remember that DL has a significant terminal space and domestic size advantage and they intend to take full advantage of it...
I've been saying for years that DL understands well the value of coastal hubs in winning corporate and credit card revenue - and it leads the industry in both categories.
Yes, DL spend the money for new terminals and the Olympics sponsorships as part of its plan to grow its presence at LAX.
Just remember that DL has a significant terminal space and domestic size advantage and they intend to take full advantage of it - just as they enjoy a slot and flight advantage in NYC.
Lots of people are convinced that DL gets its profits from its core interior US hubs but you can't be the #1 size DL is in NYC, BOS and LAX as well as SEA where it is #2 and not be getting significant revenue and sales advantages which will only grow as DL's size relative to its competitors in those markets grows.
I don’t think it’s odd at all. US is StarAlliance, where DL is SkyTeam. DL already has a huge LA presence, and if I read correctly, has seriously upgraded their “LA space.” It makes perfect sense, especially if their passengers are asking for it. I fly DL exclusively and just may have to try this new route!
it's also worth noting that UA has little room for expansion at LAX until terminal 9 or whatever it is called is built which could be years down the road.
DL mirrored what AA did with gaining access to TBIT and using it for overflow and widebody flights which allows DL's terminals 2 and 3 to handle as many narrowbodies and domestic widebodies as DL can fit in there - plus a few international...
it's also worth noting that UA has little room for expansion at LAX until terminal 9 or whatever it is called is built which could be years down the road.
DL mirrored what AA did with gaining access to TBIT and using it for overflow and widebody flights which allows DL's terminals 2 and 3 to handle as many narrowbodies and domestic widebodies as DL can fit in there - plus a few international flights.
DL put its stake down with the LA Olympics sponsorship and it will be well into the 2030s before anyone is in a position to challenge DL; AA has been burned too badly at LAX to try to grow again even if they have the gates.
DL's leadership at LAX is driven by gates while in NYC it is slots and airport capacity. DL has played its hand very well in the two largest markets in the country.
And YET they cannot even make the largest and most important market from LAX. That is LHR. But given all the numerous TPAC routes that DL has tried to add and then remove again, and again, and again and again over the last years, it is no surprise that they are trying again. Alas, it is all just a joke for all of us to sit, watch and enjoy!
Is m hearing Lax-Lhr on delta is coming back
I’m hearing ICN-SLC is a disaster and will soon cancel
"I’m hearing ICN-SLC is a disaster and will soon cancel"
I'm hearing that you're full of crap, and just making things up.
Especially seeing as how the Delta execs in the Bill Wyatt interview, said they're very happy with not only the bookings, but the cargo that the route is doing.
be nice if they released award space
I don't know why DL chose to fly to HKG from LAX, not from SEA.
Not only UA but also CX flies LAX-HKG multiple times a day. I wonder if this route will be any better than SEA-TPE.
On the contrary, SEA-HKG is an unserved market since no one operates this route now. There used to be CX when DL pulled out of this route, but it's different now.
Again look at the demand. La and Hong Kong are HUGE and big origin destination airports. Seattle isn’t the largest city and no one in La or sf is going to want to make a stop there. It just isn’t happening…we would much rather a nonstop.
Meanwhile MNL sits unserved by DL and TPE is a loss-leader. UA is absolutely eating DL’s lunch in TPAC. It’s sad how much history, knowledge, and brand recognition in Asia DL has thrown away, first by ignoring the massive route structure built by NW, then by systematically pulling out of Asia and handing passengers off to KE. DL only seems to know how to add more routes to Italy.
first, DL makes more money per seat mile flying the Pacific than UA does so UA clearly has some of its loss leaders?
Tell us how well UA was doing with its 4 west coast to HKG flights so that they had space on those flights to extend 2 of them to points in SE Asia. You don't stick tags behind flights that are optimally operating financially.
and DL now has the most capable...
first, DL makes more money per seat mile flying the Pacific than UA does so UA clearly has some of its loss leaders?
Tell us how well UA was doing with its 4 west coast to HKG flights so that they had space on those flights to extend 2 of them to points in SE Asia. You don't stick tags behind flights that are optimally operating financially.
and DL now has the most capable and efficient TPAC fleet among US airlines which rivals - if not exceeds what foreign airlines offer. Fleet efficiency matters the most on the Pacific.
and DL just added SLC-ICN and this announcement is apparently for another non-JV route so DL clearly is expanding beyond its historic Tokyo and ICN strength.
The reality is that DL is doing exactly what I said they would do which was to reach a point of aggressive international growth that would be from a stronger baseline than UA which will have to deal w/ its older and less efficient widebody fleet.
and UA talked for years about growing into the domestic network - where DL is already very strong and gets more corporate revenue than any other airline.
Those same corporate accounts that support DL well have told DL what they want internationally.
As I said, it was a given that DL would grow its international network as significantly as UA would grow its international network. UA is still well behind AA and DL in the domestic market and yet DL is a steady and growing #2 in the international market.
By the time DL adds, Riyadh, more TLV, India and a few more dots in Asia/Pacific, UA will have very few structural advantages to its international network and be significantly smaller than DL domestically including now in NYC.
UA's dominance and international growth of its international system was fun to watch post covid but it was a given that it would end and DL would aggressively grow.
As I have repeatedly said and these announcements bear out, if UA can make money on its international system, DL can too and will do it from a stronger position.
Tim you do when the plane sits for enough hours to do a turn intra Asia, to make more money and see how the. High yield bookings look to those cities for the future, You always think you are the smartest guy in the room , you are not.
MNL is one of the world’s lowest-yielding destinations, not to mention one of the world’s worst cities.
Coming from a place of severe ignorance, Vishant. And don’t get me started on your xenophobia.
As a comparison point, yields are absolutely terrible to India as well, but everyone seems to want DL to resume service there.
DL (along with UA/AA) operate many routes with sub-optimal yields. Sometime you truly do need the dots to connect more than you need stellar yields on every route. UA has significantly improved its financial performance...
Coming from a place of severe ignorance, Vishant. And don’t get me started on your xenophobia.
As a comparison point, yields are absolutely terrible to India as well, but everyone seems to want DL to resume service there.
DL (along with UA/AA) operate many routes with sub-optimal yields. Sometime you truly do need the dots to connect more than you need stellar yields on every route. UA has significantly improved its financial performance in the past few quarters while DL is stagnant.
UA has SIX, count them, SIX amendable labor contracts, representing ALL of its large non-pilot workgroups.
It isn't hard to outperform your competitors financially when your employees make much less than your competitors' employees.
Get back w/ us on UA's financial performance when they settle all of those contracts and pay the retro.
and if UA's labor costs don't dramatically increase, let us know how UA's customer service and employee satisfaction is...
UA has SIX, count them, SIX amendable labor contracts, representing ALL of its large non-pilot workgroups.
It isn't hard to outperform your competitors financially when your employees make much less than your competitors' employees.
Get back w/ us on UA's financial performance when they settle all of those contracts and pay the retro.
and if UA's labor costs don't dramatically increase, let us know how UA's customer service and employee satisfaction is doing.
MNL is a high volume route but, just like India, there is corporate business. DL and UA both know how to find what they need but having the right airplane and JV partners helps.
MNL is a pure leisure and overseas Filipinos visiting family route.
There is not enough business demand to fill the expensive seats that actually make money for an airline.
UA disagrees as they upgauged the flight to a 777-300 and went double daily.
Finally DL begins to fight UA. Surrendering to UA out of LAX for international traffic was a past mistake. LAX remains the largest origin destination airport and is infinitely more valuable of a market than Seattle. I wish them luck, but they will need more flights. I suggest a second a220 frequency to CVG, frequencies to CMH, CLE, MDW, MKE, FLG, MRY ….etc. They need more domestic connectivity. I also suggest Shanghai, Beijing, Jakarta, Kuala...
Finally DL begins to fight UA. Surrendering to UA out of LAX for international traffic was a past mistake. LAX remains the largest origin destination airport and is infinitely more valuable of a market than Seattle. I wish them luck, but they will need more flights. I suggest a second a220 frequency to CVG, frequencies to CMH, CLE, MDW, MKE, FLG, MRY ….etc. They need more domestic connectivity. I also suggest Shanghai, Beijing, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Osaka. If you wish to properly hub LAX and bring the fight. Bring the fight. At least if you win LA, you win something. Who cares about SeaTac. With LAX traffic down 20% since pre pandemic, it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity to hub the most valuable airport in the country. LAWA will give you the gates.
DL just restarted LAX-PVG
and I noticed that they took your advice and doubled SEA-BNA to 2 flights/day and are using the A220 to do it.
DL is the largest airline at LAX overall and domestically.
remember that DL is also solidifying its lead in NYC and BOS while growing its hubs, esp. SLC. DL has enormous route opportunities in front of it.
Are you sure DL is larger than WN at LAX? WN has a huge intra-California network that is larger than DL.
Delta was gitfted the NW network to Asia and failed to exploit it.
No way can DL compete against CX - UA for sure, not an Asian carrier (except for KE - which pretty much the bottom of the barrel for Asian carriers (exception Garuda).
Yes I'm sure some random town in ... Ohio ... is on the top of Delta's list. Lol.
Is someone per chance living in whatever that town is? :)
They can always use Korean Air and China Airlines for Jakarta and Kuala Lumpur. Also, Delta can involve Garuda Indonesia and Vietnam Airlines to connect to its new HKG route, especially if they look at the information of how many passengers connect to VN's SFO-SGN flight using DL's LAX-SFO flights! This would give VN passengers who need to get to LAX on a day other than when VN flies another option.
Honestly I did not see Delta resuming this nonstop flight between Hong Kong and LAX. I remember flying their L1011-500 from HKG to LAX via ANC (still have the economy class menu), and then later nonstop from HKG to LAX on their "new" MD-11s.
I wonder how it will affect the pricing on this market!
Cathay really prices its premium cabin high, given United is the only competition. But with Delta, it is...
Honestly I did not see Delta resuming this nonstop flight between Hong Kong and LAX. I remember flying their L1011-500 from HKG to LAX via ANC (still have the economy class menu), and then later nonstop from HKG to LAX on their "new" MD-11s.
I wonder how it will affect the pricing on this market!
Cathay really prices its premium cabin high, given United is the only competition. But with Delta, it is a bit different, as it is considered a more "premium" carrier.
Thanks for the news!
I think this has to do with the JV with LATAM. Reaching Asia from South America will always be an ordeal and LAX will provide a one stop alternative from HKG to SCL, LIM and GRU.
is there actually that much demand between South America and Asia? Specifically premium demand?
Given the current…everything…going on, will anyone from South America want to clear immigration and transit through the US when they could go through the Middle East instead?
LOL. God no.
Like the majority of DL's long haul intercontinental network out of LAX, this new addition will likely not succeed. The 2 x daily UA and the CX service is plenty for the market, one that has changed dramatically since 2019 and corporate demand is much smaller than it used to be. LAX is one of the few places that US carriers, unable to overfly Russia, can operate to HKG from. The Asia POS will skew CX. The LAX and via-LAX connections POS will skew UA.
we'll note your objections and see how it plays out.
you do realize that UA put tags behind 1 each of its LAX and SFO to HKG flights. You don't tag flights that are operating optimally.
It is very possible that UA's announcement to tag those flights that gave DL the incentive to jump into the market - on top of incentives that DL will receive from HKG which UA will not have. The...
we'll note your objections and see how it plays out.
you do realize that UA put tags behind 1 each of its LAX and SFO to HKG flights. You don't tag flights that are operating optimally.
It is very possible that UA's announcement to tag those flights that gave DL the incentive to jump into the market - on top of incentives that DL will receive from HKG which UA will not have. The same thing has played out on LAX-BNE and will play out to MEL.
There actually a pretty small part of the world that is convinced that UA is all they need.
If DL couldn’t make DTW and then SEA work pre-Covid, no chance they can make LAX work post-Covid. If this is based on incentives, it’ll start at less than 1x daily and fizzle out after one or two seasons.
What’s a tag?
My question too, what is a "tag"?
a flight beyond the original flight... an example is UA is extending one of their US mainland to HKG flights to SGN and another to BKK. the HKG-BKK and HKG-SGN flights are called tags
seems likely it's LAX because DL finally admitted that it can't keep upping the ante and bluff its way out of its SEA cost structure problem
you honestly think that costs at LAX are cheaper? DL just spent over $2 billion renovating its LAX terminals.
it comes down to the size of the local market and where DL wants to position itself competitively.
SEA has advantages for DL and DL appears ready to draw a big circle around the routes out of SEA that matter to DL.
It is possible that DL could start both LAX and SEA...
you honestly think that costs at LAX are cheaper? DL just spent over $2 billion renovating its LAX terminals.
it comes down to the size of the local market and where DL wants to position itself competitively.
SEA has advantages for DL and DL appears ready to draw a big circle around the routes out of SEA that matter to DL.
It is possible that DL could start both LAX and SEA to HKG - or SIN - but they might also be choosing one or two of those hubs for certain markets. Remember, UA serves just 3 cities from LAX compared to a much larger number from SFO.
DL could end up with more cities from both LAX and SEA than UA has from LAX.
as for aero's comment below, winning in the Asia-Pacific market comes down to service and cost.
DL has spent the time to acquire the most efficient and capable TPAC fleet among US airlines and will be as competitive as any airline on the planet from a fleet standpoint by the time the A350-1000s arrive.
DL's service is better than AA or UA's and that is confirmed by customer rankings and yet DL still has a long ways to go from a service standpoint to compete w/ a number of foreign carriers.
The US is still the largest source of corporate airline revenue and DL gets the most corporate travel among US airlines. DL's leading position in the corporate and business travel market gives it enormous ability to expand its network.
They spent $2B on that? It looks like a bus terminal.
i do agree that it's entirely possible DL is bleeding money at LAX too; but that's more speculative as it hasn't been reported as much as the SEA situation
as if "reporting" has anything to do with the truth.
DL is still the highest and most consistently profitable US airline and lest you wish to throw UA into the bunch, get back with us after UA settles all of its outstanding labor contracts and pays retro where its unions succeed at getting it.
The US airline industry was deregulated at the same time for AA, DL and UA. DL has moved up the...
as if "reporting" has anything to do with the truth.
DL is still the highest and most consistently profitable US airline and lest you wish to throw UA into the bunch, get back with us after UA settles all of its outstanding labor contracts and pays retro where its unions succeed at getting it.
The US airline industry was deregulated at the same time for AA, DL and UA. DL has moved up the ranking of airlines more than AA or UA have. DL has seized plenty of opportunity.
DL clearly sees that now is a really good time for an aggressive international expansion which was bound to happen. DL moves very deliberately - sometimes slowly - but has managed to keep growing.
It clearly intends to cut the strategic advantage that UA has with its larger international system and DL has a much larger domestic route system, like AA which is well behind both DL and UA in the international arena both in size and profits.
it was a given with the number of A350s - 900s and 1000s - that DL would be significantly expanding its very to ultra longhaul route system because that is precisely what the A350 was built to do.
There will be several more years of significant international growth to East and S. Asia as well as Africa and the Middle East.
There will be a whole lot of people that will have no choice in a couple years but to admit that DL really did close the gap with UA and still lead in the domestic marketplace including being #1 in NYC and LAX.
Undoubtedly some U.S. Airlines aspire to becoming a World Class Airline, however, all have a very long way to go before they even improve upon their own lowly standards. As DL is top of the U.S. bunch in the world rankings, one might assume that they will be the first to emerge as a contender.
I wonder if it could have something to do with D1 connectivity JFK-LAX instead of just first JFK-SEA
Lol business travelers are taking the nonstop from JFK not taking a 6+ hour detour for no reason
The only US airline with a proper Pacific strategy is United.
United indeed took advantage of DL's pulling back of the NRT hub ten years ago and then grew aggressively post covid when many foreign airlines - and AA and DL were not ready to internationally grow.
But UA has the oldest and least efficient widebody fleet among major global airlines and it won't get significantly more efficient and younger until UA starts retiring its 767s -which DL is doing - and its 777-200/ERs which...
United indeed took advantage of DL's pulling back of the NRT hub ten years ago and then grew aggressively post covid when many foreign airlines - and AA and DL were not ready to internationally grow.
But UA has the oldest and least efficient widebody fleet among major global airlines and it won't get significantly more efficient and younger until UA starts retiring its 767s -which DL is doing - and its 777-200/ERs which DL already did and AA is in the planning stage to do.
UA simply cannot be cost competitive using 777s against DL and foreign carrier new generation aircraft and Polaris is simply not competitive with Delta One Suites.
and Gary is reporting that DL will announce ATL-RUH and TLV later this year, likely from the same employee gathering this news originated.
DL knows full well that it has had the new widebody advantage and has had it for two years. UA simply will not be able to keep up with all of DL's global expansion without getting well behind the 8 ball on fleet replacement which has to happen at some point.
and some routes like ATL-DEL are simply routes that DL's A350s can do which UA cannot do on any aircraft in its fleet.
DL knows it has an advantage and is taking advantage of it just as UA did when it had an advantage.
No advantage lasts forever for anyone.
I'm sorry, but this comment is simply not based on facts. United has a similar amount of modern wide body aircraft as Delta (78 Boeing 787 vs. 76 A350/A330neo) and has way more on order (188 787/A350 vs. 29 A350/A330neo). Thus, United has already taken care of its fleet renewal, Delta has not. Additionally, the 787-9 has a similar range and capabilities as the A350-900.
United does not have to keep up with Delta's...
I'm sorry, but this comment is simply not based on facts. United has a similar amount of modern wide body aircraft as Delta (78 Boeing 787 vs. 76 A350/A330neo) and has way more on order (188 787/A350 vs. 29 A350/A330neo). Thus, United has already taken care of its fleet renewal, Delta has not. Additionally, the 787-9 has a similar range and capabilities as the A350-900.
United does not have to keep up with Delta's global expansion because United is already well ahead concerning international capacity and amount of destinations.
Current Polaris seats might not be on the same level as Delta One suites, but at least they are available on all widebody aircraft (and with a much higher seat count). This is a huge advantage on transatlantic flights where Delta operates its outdated 767/A330classic. In addition, United's new Polaris seats will address this issue.
I don't know why you are talking about United not being able to operate flights to Delhi when United already operates non-stop flights to Delhi and Delta does not.
Delta has some advantages compared to United. However, its international network is not one of them.
responding to the comments with some amendments - i would say DL are operating disadvantaged
with UA - they now operate 2xDaily, set to reopen their HKG lounge within a few months from now, starting their 5th freedom route to SGN & BKK.
with CX - they operate 19xWeekly, offers a much better product across the board compared with any US carriers, and typically a favourite amongst business travellers in HK.
there is not even...
responding to the comments with some amendments - i would say DL are operating disadvantaged
with UA - they now operate 2xDaily, set to reopen their HKG lounge within a few months from now, starting their 5th freedom route to SGN & BKK.
with CX - they operate 19xWeekly, offers a much better product across the board compared with any US carriers, and typically a favourite amongst business travellers in HK.
there is not even a SkyTeam lounge at HKG, let alone any significant carriers that do not already served by KE via ICN
not to mention that it makes more sense to restart HKG-SEA as CX have yet to resume HKG-SEA, and they can compete at a much better advantage
United offers a nighttime flight in both directions. Cathay Pacific offers 3 of them.
Unless Delta Airlines parks the plane in HKG, they will be at a competitive disadvantage flying the route as daytime.
If CX does decide to return, I can see a late morning-midday departure from HKG to better facilitate connections with AS.
Seattle is clearly not premium enough.
@Mary--I agree. Although there is a lot of money here, the truly wealthy tend to fly private. The rest of us are too frugal to pay $10k or more for airfare and business travel just isn't what it used to be. OTOH, Emirates, Turkish and Qatar all do OK here so maybe DL isn't premium enough?
Let’s remember that DL (and others) are constantly in conversation with their most important customers. SEA may have made more sense as a gateway building exercise, but the local market is driving this add, with a not insignificant set of connecting opportunities in a support role.
DL cannot even make LAX-LHR work (and it is one of (if not the) the largest markets from LAX. They literally got chased out within a year of launch. Now they think they can make LAX-HKG work. LOL…
and UA dropped LAX also in favor its JV partner. Your point?
correction
and UA dropped LAX-AKL also in favor its JV partner. Your point?
AKL is hardly Hong Kong. Or London. Your Point?
Uh UA still flies LAX LHR
I have to agree @KS.
This is outright delusion by stubborn Delta Airlines network planners.
If passengers aren't willing to pay the premium for DL metal to London, they certainly won't to Hong Kong.
only if you cherrypick markets to rank them to favor "your company" can you ignore the fact that UA has dropped markets in favor of its JV partners.
DL consistently is more profitable and turning LAX-LHR over to VS allowed DL to redeploy that aircraft somewhere else.
And you do realize that UA dropped one of its 2 LAX-LHR flights soon after DL pulled its own metal out?
DL and UA stand their...
only if you cherrypick markets to rank them to favor "your company" can you ignore the fact that UA has dropped markets in favor of its JV partners.
DL consistently is more profitable and turning LAX-LHR over to VS allowed DL to redeploy that aircraft somewhere else.
And you do realize that UA dropped one of its 2 LAX-LHR flights soon after DL pulled its own metal out?
DL and UA stand their ground but are also smart enough to not get into costly pis879ing contests.
One of the better "territory marking" contests was DL's attempt years ago to start JFK-EZE, AA doubled its flights in that market, DL pulled out but is now back in.
The same thing may happen w/ LAX-HKG or it may not.
DL has a number of advantages right now including its larger position in NYC and far more stable labor costs than UA.
Delta's inability to make LAX-LHR and JFK-Tokyo work possibly shows signs of a poorly run airline.
kinda like a complete absence of UA from JFK?
It’s a joint venture with Virgin Air France and klm to Europe, so London is simply operated by Virgin metal 3 x a day.
Traffic to the USA has dropped for obvious reasons by over 21%.
So? DL’s was the fourth daily. If DL could even manage to not burn money on it, it would have survived. As the carrier with the lowest LF on the route, it did not even survive a year. It was a huge flop. That speaks volumes to how much DL has been able to penetrate the LAX market. And somehow they think they are going to make LAX-HKG work. Lol.
Northwest used to be a leader. Then Delta took over and destroyed the routes across the Pacific.
NW also lost money flying the Pacific. It didn't take long after the merger that DL tried to rework the Narita hub to replace 747s with smaller aircraft and then the Japanese government decided to open Haneda to continental US flights, first at night and then at all times.
DL realized it made no sense to fly from NRT to HND and became the largest US carrier to HND on its own metal. UA has...
NW also lost money flying the Pacific. It didn't take long after the merger that DL tried to rework the Narita hub to replace 747s with smaller aircraft and then the Japanese government decided to open Haneda to continental US flights, first at night and then at all times.
DL realized it made no sense to fly from NRT to HND and became the largest US carrier to HND on its own metal. UA has increased gauge to try to compensate but AA and UA's yields to NRT have fallen dramatically.
and Japan is part of the DL-KE JV - it is just flown on DL metal to HND.
DL was ready to expand its Pacific network before covid but held off while it retired the 777s and received A350s that have range as good or better than the 777-200LRs - and much lower costs.
UA is making good money flying the Pacific. DL will add more and more routes over the next few years to serve the destinations that were strong with the NRT hub and where US carriers - regardless of brand - can attract a decent following.
Despite what many believe, DL still has a loyal core number of passengers in Asia that have remained on DL even using KE to "finish the journey"
A leader at what? By the 2010s, Northwest was stuck with oversized aircraft for its market flows, routing everything in Asia through Tokyo, and nearly everything in Europe through Amsterdam. While both the Asian and other US carriers began to bypass Tokyo through other gateways with smaller gauge of aircraft. Northwest placed an order for 787s (which it never received) in an attempt to catch up, but by that point, the writing was on the...
A leader at what? By the 2010s, Northwest was stuck with oversized aircraft for its market flows, routing everything in Asia through Tokyo, and nearly everything in Europe through Amsterdam. While both the Asian and other US carriers began to bypass Tokyo through other gateways with smaller gauge of aircraft. Northwest placed an order for 787s (which it never received) in an attempt to catch up, but by that point, the writing was on the wall for them as an independent operation. Delta just hastened what was going to inevitably happen to Northwest's Tokyo hub.
"Delta’s transpacific service to Asia out of Los Angeles is otherwise limited to Shanghai (PVG) and Tokyo Haneda. The airline operates flights to the South Pacific, but that’s a distinct market."
THAT IS A RACIST STATEMENT.
The point to point China market is distinct from the Japan market. Delta does not have a hub in Tokyo anymore.
Oh shut it...racist my arse. Its true!
take a deep breath.
Ben's statement is accurate and has nothing to do with race.
The S. Pacific and Australia specifically is distinct from E. Asia in many respects including seasonality.
what is accurate is that Ben crowed endlessly about UA's int'l size from LAX but DL will serve the same number of cities in E. Asia as UA if this announcement becomes reality - even before the inevitable LAX-ICN - and more...
take a deep breath.
Ben's statement is accurate and has nothing to do with race.
The S. Pacific and Australia specifically is distinct from E. Asia in many respects including seasonality.
what is accurate is that Ben crowed endlessly about UA's int'l size from LAX but DL will serve the same number of cities in E. Asia as UA if this announcement becomes reality - even before the inevitable LAX-ICN - and more cities in the S. Pacific on each carrier's own metal
DL is clearly putting as big of a circle around the LAX international market for UA to see as it did around the domestic market for AA.
Wait, what?
Interesting. A couple of points
1) Hong Kong had to be added back at some point. I could see Singapore being added as well
2) Seattle vs LA is an interesting decision. Delta considers LA a hub, with a lot of investment in the airport over the years. LA may have more O/D traffic for Hong Kong. Maybe the experience of SEA-HKG made them want to try something new.
3) I do wonder...
Interesting. A couple of points
1) Hong Kong had to be added back at some point. I could see Singapore being added as well
2) Seattle vs LA is an interesting decision. Delta considers LA a hub, with a lot of investment in the airport over the years. LA may have more O/D traffic for Hong Kong. Maybe the experience of SEA-HKG made them want to try something new.
3) I do wonder if the removal of transcon D1 service from SEA plays a role here. LAX has domestic D1 service from both JFK, BOS and DCA, offering a better experience across the country for those that connect. Domestic D1 service out of Seattle (except maybe some Hawaii flights) was a casualty of the pandemic.
4) I wouldn't be surprised of SEA-HKG was eventually tried as well. I see this more of a statement of Delta's view of LA and other competitive markets. Delta clearly wants to have a robust network out of LA, JFK, etc. So I don't think you can ever really be "surprised" by Delta trying high profile routes out of either market.
HKG is indeed an essential market just as there will be others but the real competitive dynamic is what DL chooses to serve from LAX and what it serves from SEA.
AS and DL are both run by smart groups of people. DL might well be leaving enough crumbs on the table for AS; HKG is the hub for a oneworld carrier. DL could start operating flights other than to HND, ICN and PVG from...
HKG is indeed an essential market just as there will be others but the real competitive dynamic is what DL chooses to serve from LAX and what it serves from SEA.
AS and DL are both run by smart groups of people. DL might well be leaving enough crumbs on the table for AS; HKG is the hub for a oneworld carrier. DL could start operating flights other than to HND, ICN and PVG from both LAX and SEA - and would have perhaps an even more competitive position relative to UA than LAX and SFO.
DL did serve LAX-HKG but not w/ reliable aircraft but rather the MD-11. The A350 can not only easily operate the flight with DL's full 275 passengers but also carry a healthy cargo load.
as for the comment about MNL, below, hopefully a source will surface
DL might be adding E. Asia flights during the winter as UA has done. MNL and SE Asia work well to do that.
and DL will add D1 domestic flights from SEA if AS does. Service is competitive; both AS and DL know that they do well in SEA and B6' Mint service didn't help them. Premium configured aircraft are higher CASM and both carriers will use them if necessary to remain competitive w/ the other.
and DL is still going to develop NYC to E. Asia but might be making it clear to UA that intends to compete for western US to Asia traffic. With DL's much stronger position in NYC as a result of EWR capacity reductions by the FAA and UA's higher labor costs as it settles with its six labor groups, DL is much better positioned to assert its market desires relative to UA. The fact that DL is now getting a decent sized fleet of very capable A350s only helps DL's push across the Pacific
Anthony has a point with #3. I would consider a Delta JFK/ LAX/ HKG routing, because the first (domestic) leg offers the D1 product. I would be far less inclined to take the option via SEA, if JFK/SEA offers the domestic F product only.
I think Delta needs to bring back domestic D1 to SEA if they want to make it a serious TPAC hub.
This is a big reason why UA has made SFO quite successful since they have domestic premium transcon.
Even the neighboring YVR sees similar concept with YYZ and YUL widebody service.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I believe Delta also offers D1 from NYC-SFO as well. Personally surprised they don’t also with NYC-SEA given that United doesn’t and Alaska is not super competitive in J cross country.
first, DL had more flights at HND than ICN until SLC-ICN started.
second, DL said when it discontinued HKG before covid that it would only return to HKG from JFK. Obviously the Russia-Ukraine war blocks a huge amount of airspace; while the latest A350s could fly JFK-HKG in DL's 275 seat configuration even w/ Russia airspace restrictions, it is far easier to serve HKG from the west coast
and third, HKG is apparently offering incentives...
first, DL had more flights at HND than ICN until SLC-ICN started.
second, DL said when it discontinued HKG before covid that it would only return to HKG from JFK. Obviously the Russia-Ukraine war blocks a huge amount of airspace; while the latest A350s could fly JFK-HKG in DL's 275 seat configuration even w/ Russia airspace restrictions, it is far easier to serve HKG from the west coast
and third, HKG is apparently offering incentives for new service as well as even for additional service on existing routes. LAX is clearly a bigger market than SEA and DL might be offering an olive branch to let AS start SEA-HKG.
fourth, when the route is publicly confirmed, we will know but apparently DL execs made a comment at the employee rally post 2nd quarter earnings - in which DL set the high mark for earnings which other carriers are highly unlikely to surpass - that LAX-HKG would return.
and fifth, SIN is still a likely more lucrative market and one where NW and DL had a pretty strong history. I have multiple friends in SE Asia that flew NW/DL from SIN and are still Diamonds and anxiously are waiting for SIN to the US nonstop on DL.
and finally, even Dim recognizes that DL takes a backseat to precisely no one.
and DL just might have decided that it is not going to cede anything at LAX to UA. This would give DL and UA the same number of TPAC destinations even before DL inevitably starts ICN and possibly SIN (which might be waiting for a showdown with AS). DL is considerably larger in the domestic market from LAX than AA or UA where UA is the 3rd largest.
I have said for years that DL will continue to expand its international route network on its own time and if UA can make money doing so. DL is actually about the same size on widebodies across the Atlantic and DL makes more money per ASM across the Pacific than UA. DL has the most efficient and capable TPAC fleet and that is even before the 350-1000s arrive.
Even w/ their "less attractive" 767s, DL is starting SLC-LIM which is a perfect route connecting a DL and JV partner hub on a flight that is less than 8 hours.
Appreciate your effort to write such long passage under nearly every single post. I have the following two questions:
A. Why people would choose DL/ST over UA/*A or CX/OW on HK-USA route? Is that because SFO/DFW/LAX have bad connections network on AA/AS/UA? Or is it because Delta One Lounge is way greater than Qantas @ LAX / Pier / Bridge @ HKG? Oh, I remember that ST already closed their lounge at HKG.
B. Aside...
Appreciate your effort to write such long passage under nearly every single post. I have the following two questions:
A. Why people would choose DL/ST over UA/*A or CX/OW on HK-USA route? Is that because SFO/DFW/LAX have bad connections network on AA/AS/UA? Or is it because Delta One Lounge is way greater than Qantas @ LAX / Pier / Bridge @ HKG? Oh, I remember that ST already closed their lounge at HKG.
B. Aside from O/D pax, what connection does HKG have for DL? Maybe Garuda? Or CI?
Oh, and my third question is similar as the first two, but on SIN. I flew KE and GA from SIN earlier this year, and both were disastrous. KE departs from the faraway SIN T4 without air train access, and all we were doing is waiting with sweat drenching my shirt in tropical S'pore weather outside Jewel. And guess what? CX also departs from T4 and it has a lounge while KE does not! The...
Oh, and my third question is similar as the first two, but on SIN. I flew KE and GA from SIN earlier this year, and both were disastrous. KE departs from the faraway SIN T4 without air train access, and all we were doing is waiting with sweat drenching my shirt in tropical S'pore weather outside Jewel. And guess what? CX also departs from T4 and it has a lounge while KE does not! The other side is GA. I was given access to Marhaba Lounge, which is a PP lounge. And there was no boarding groups, just some Indonesian girl shouting "business class!"
So, why on earth any company based in SIN would ever choose ST? Just curious.
Delta Airlines did not say a single word about flying to Hong Kong from New York JFK.
The only reason why DL would fly LAX-HKG is because they felt threatened by UA. That's called being irrational.
they most certainly did when they pulled SEA-HKG pre-covid. Check earnings call transcripts.
and, no, DL isn't adding LAX-HKG because they are threatened by anything or anybody.
They are adding whatever they add because they believe they can make money - which is no different than what any profit-motivated company does.
The question is who will blink first or whether there will be coexistance.
And remember how much we have heard about how poorly...
they most certainly did when they pulled SEA-HKG pre-covid. Check earnings call transcripts.
and, no, DL isn't adding LAX-HKG because they are threatened by anything or anybody.
They are adding whatever they add because they believe they can make money - which is no different than what any profit-motivated company does.
The question is who will blink first or whether there will be coexistance.
And remember how much we have heard about how poorly SEA-TPE is doing. That route has now lapped a year. It is entirely possible that DL is willing to take on another developmental route that is strategically necessary. UA did the same thing for years pre-covid when it just broke even flying the Pacific while DL was much more profitable with its much smaller TPAC network
This is just like SYD.
DL has to fly to HKG. They will also fly to SIN. They are likely getting slaughtered in the corporate contracts and need to offer same metal service to there major holes in their market.
I have no idea if they can make money in these markets, but DL is at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage with Asia POS vs UA/CX/SQ and I don’t see a path to improve that without...
This is just like SYD.
DL has to fly to HKG. They will also fly to SIN. They are likely getting slaughtered in the corporate contracts and need to offer same metal service to there major holes in their market.
I have no idea if they can make money in these markets, but DL is at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage with Asia POS vs UA/CX/SQ and I don’t see a path to improve that without significant discounts.
Delta is not operating anything special or unique, but they have to be there.
Let’s not over dramatize this announcement
you THINK that DL is at a disadvantage.
Eventually average fare data becomes available.
For years, DL has managed to get average revenue as good as UA does across the Pacific.
UA's lower profitability per ASM is because UA flies alot of volume that DL will never touch because it is lower yielding and strategically not necessary.
Nobody is overdramatizing anything. It is the combination of a number of international route announcements...
you THINK that DL is at a disadvantage.
Eventually average fare data becomes available.
For years, DL has managed to get average revenue as good as UA does across the Pacific.
UA's lower profitability per ASM is because UA flies alot of volume that DL will never touch because it is lower yielding and strategically not necessary.
Nobody is overdramatizing anything. It is the combination of a number of international route announcements that is significant and it is so because some of us knew that DL would reach the point of aggressive international growth which will have a bigger strategic impact than UA's growth in the domestic market.
Um no complete lie @Tim. Delta never said that in any earnings call.
“Multiple friends” lololol
They also plan to return to MNL from LAX next year.
Delta also launched a SLC-LIM flight yesterday too
SLC-LIM is an interesting idea. However, it's extremely seasonal (only lasting about 2 months in the US winter). It's a toe in the water and I hope it works as it would be a decent connection from SEA.
delta operates at a significant disadvantage to NO ONE. i am CALM and have a FIRM HANDLE on reality
I don’t see that lasting they will probably just end up moving it to Seattle when Alaska tries to add Hong Kong out of Seattle