Delta Air Lines is launching a new route on its own metal (thanks to @IshrionA for flagging this), though only for a limited time…
In this post:
Delta will fly from Boston to Sao Paulo in early 2025
Between January 6 and March 27, 2025, Delta is operating a 3x weekly flight between Boston (BOS) and Sao Paulo (GRU). The 4,790-mile flight will operate with the following schedule:
DL165 Boston to Sao Paulo departing 9:00AM arriving 8:45PM
DL164 Sao Paulo to Boston departing 10:45PM arriving 6:40AM (+1 day)
The southbound flight is blocked at 9hr45min, and will operate on Mondays, Thursdays, and Fridays, while the northbound flight is blocked at 9hr55min, and will operate on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.
While the outbound flight timing is great in terms of aircraft utilization (since the plane can turn right around in Sao Paulo), the daytime flight isn’t necessarily preferred by many business travelers, and it’s also not great for connections.
Delta will use an Airbus A330-300 for the service, featuring 282 seats. This includes 34 Delta One (business class) seats, 21 Delta Premium Select (premium economy) seats, 24 Delta Comfort+ (extra legroom economy) seats, and 203 Main Cabin (economy) seats.
It would appear that Delta is simply replacing the service of its joint venture partner LATAM in the market for a period of roughly three months. LATAM has operated this route since 2018. Delta’s new service has identical timing to LATAM’s service, which is why it seems like it’s a replacement. Meanwhile LATAM will operate this service through early January, and again as of late March.
It’s interesting to see Delta replacing LATAM in the market
Delta owns a stake in LATAM, and on top of that, the two airlines have a joint venture between the United States and much of South America. With a joint venture, airlines can coordinate schedules and fares, and can also share revenue.
We often see joint venture partners replace Delta in some markets, which is logical enough, since Delta has a higher cost structure than most of its partners. For example, we’ve seen Delta axe service between Los Angeles (LAX) and London (LHR), and instead that route is exclusively operated by partner Virgin Atlantic.
So in this situation, why is Delta replacing its joint venture partner LATAM, which almost certainly has a lower cost structure? In this case it seems easy enough to figure out:
- US airlines can’t get their hands on enough wide body aircraft for their summer schedule, given the amount of transatlantic demand; however, the first three months of the year are the absolute slowest across the Atlantic
- As a result, Delta presumably has some spare aircraft, so the airline needs to fly them somewhere
- Meanwhile in South America, those same months are peak season (given that it’s summer in the Southern Hemisphere), so I suspect LATAM can better utilize its aircraft for other routes
All of this seems like a logical enough development. If Delta permanently replaced LATAM in this market, then I’d be a bit confused. But with Delta just taking over the service during its slowest period for long haul travel, this makes sense.
Bottom line
Delta will operate flights between Boston and Sao Paulo in early 2025, replacing the existing service by joint venture partner LATAM. It may seem confusing to see Delta get into this market for just a few months, especially given that Delta has a higher cost structure than LATAM. But it’s easier to make sense of when you look at the big picture, and consider the other places LATAM can fly planes that time of year.
What do you make of Delta launching Boston to Sao Paulo flights?
As part of their growth between the two airlines, here is my short list of routes that both airlines should add in the near future.
ATL - Medellin (Delta)
ATL - Brasilia (Delta)
Lima - Boston (LATAM)
Any routes that I missed, add them to list.
You may be right, but when LA and AA don't even fly MIA-BSB, it's hard to see Delta launching ATL-BSB.
Per MDE, Latam just isn't very strong in Colombia but especially in MDE. And flying to a destination with little demand, ATL, doesn't seem logical but perhaps so.
The reason why AA doesn't fly MIA-BSB is because Gol, an AA partner, flies it.
Delta has flown ATL-BSB and ATL-MAO and did both on a much less efficient aircraft than the A321NEO which could easily do the flight now.
LA and Gol both have large operations at BSB.
There is indeed potential for DL and LA to grow not just in S. America but in Central America esp. from Florida including MIA where DL...
The reason why AA doesn't fly MIA-BSB is because Gol, an AA partner, flies it.
Delta has flown ATL-BSB and ATL-MAO and did both on a much less efficient aircraft than the A321NEO which could easily do the flight now.
LA and Gol both have large operations at BSB.
There is indeed potential for DL and LA to grow not just in S. America but in Central America esp. from Florida including MIA where DL does not fly to Latin America and which is outside of the DL-LA JV.
DL moves logically and carefully in its expansion and does it for the long term. They will grow in Latin America alongside LA.
Gol and AA are codeshare partners but not JV partners. Gol would be a competitor on MIA-BSB if AA resumed it.
"LA and Gol both have large operations at BSB."
They do. And yet LATAM still doesn't fly MIA-BSB so an ATL-BSB route doesn't make a lot of sense to start and yes, Delta has flown to BSB under a much lower cost structure than they have now and it still didn't work for...
Gol and AA are codeshare partners but not JV partners. Gol would be a competitor on MIA-BSB if AA resumed it.
"LA and Gol both have large operations at BSB."
They do. And yet LATAM still doesn't fly MIA-BSB so an ATL-BSB route doesn't make a lot of sense to start and yes, Delta has flown to BSB under a much lower cost structure than they have now and it still didn't work for them.
Perhaps a Delta 321NEO could fly ATL-BSB, but at 4,140 miles and with Delta's choice to do fewer fuel tanks than the equivalent AA NEO, I doubt it
"DL moves logically and carefully in its expansion and does it for the long term. They will grow in Latin America alongside LA." Delta expands when they want and contracts when they want. But Delta's recent moves at LAX only prove that they move quickly and not for the long term in many cases.
Thanks for replying by saying nothing, as usual.
There is likely not the market for two carriers on Atlanta to Brasilua but that says nothing about ATL. DL has the 2nd most ASMs from ATL to Latin America behind AA at MIA
Funny that omit United’s cuts at LAX and AA’s cuts to LHR
You don’t want to face facts so argue contrary to facts and by cherry picking them
“There is likely not the market for two carriers on Atlanta to Brasilua but that says nothing about ATL. DL has the 2nd most ASMs from ATL to Latin America behind AA at MIA”
Yeah. No joke there isn’t room For two carriers on ATL-bsb. Do you read? “Brasilua”? Are you drinking again?
“Funny that omit United’s cuts at LAX and AA’s cuts to LHR”
Funny that AA and ua both still Run lhr-lax...
“There is likely not the market for two carriers on Atlanta to Brasilua but that says nothing about ATL. DL has the 2nd most ASMs from ATL to Latin America behind AA at MIA”
Yeah. No joke there isn’t room For two carriers on ATL-bsb. Do you read? “Brasilua”? Are you drinking again?
“Funny that omit United’s cuts at LAX and AA’s cuts to LHR”
Funny that AA and ua both still Run lhr-lax but delta doesn’t. I omitted nothing. Delta is still the weakest carrier and alliance in Southern California despite how much you hate data.
You don’t know what facts are.
You cherry-pick the markets where you want to mock but omit markets where AA and UA have pulled back. Of course you don’t want to talk about how Delta has cleaned AA’s clock in NYC
I am actually typing on my phone vs dictating. If misspelling BSB is the best you can do with the reality of DL’s growth.
Btw Jacobin is clearly thinking of AA with his comment about 100 wide bodies
noted. You responded to nothing I said and have no data to back up any of your assertions, per usual.
And what BSB delta growth are you referencing? The fake ATL-BSB example? They don't fly it you moron. Nor can the Delta NEO make ATL-BSB despite your claims that you now don't try to back up because you actually know nothing. Do you even hear yourself?
If you want to be taken seriously,...
noted. You responded to nothing I said and have no data to back up any of your assertions, per usual.
And what BSB delta growth are you referencing? The fake ATL-BSB example? They don't fly it you moron. Nor can the Delta NEO make ATL-BSB despite your claims that you now don't try to back up because you actually know nothing. Do you even hear yourself?
If you want to be taken seriously, put your zocalo margaritas down and write. Otherwise, go back to your drinks and have a nice afternoon. You should use spell checker if you want to talk about "two markets on ATL-BSB" or can't spell Brasilia.
You must be deep into some other comment section with whatever the Jacobin reference is.
As usual, you manipulate reality in order to be able to childishly throw dirt because you can't handle reality.
I didn't say that DL would restart ATL-BSB. I said they flew it before and the idea that Ricardo suggested to restart the route is not so far fetched.
You can't stand to admit that DL operates the 2nd largest hub from the US to Latin America at ATL.
Bigger than AA at IAH.
...
As usual, you manipulate reality in order to be able to childishly throw dirt because you can't handle reality.
I didn't say that DL would restart ATL-BSB. I said they flew it before and the idea that Ricardo suggested to restart the route is not so far fetched.
You can't stand to admit that DL operates the 2nd largest hub from the US to Latin America at ATL.
Bigger than AA at IAH.
DL at JFK has displaced UA at EWR as the largest carrier from NYC to Latin America.
Your world is crumbling. So you resort to accusing other people of drinking because that is what you have to do to deal w/ reality.
DL is whooping butt and taking names.
AA and UA's heydays are coming to an end.
You’re so weird lol
My world is crumbling? Put the drinks down pal
“ Bigger than AA at IAH.”
Considering AA doesn’t fly Latin routes from iah, it’s hardly surprising delta at ATL would be bigger ;)
Get a life
How are you this stupid
And I mock what you actually write because it makes no sense when you’re drinking
Two carriers on atl-bsb? Not even one flies it lol
you are the one that is hanging on everything I write so you can post...
it is obvious that UA has the hub at IAH... you manage to figure other things out but can't figure that out.
AA is flying an overweight 787 to BNE because Boeing can't deliver the new aircraft.
UA adds a bunch of narrowbody seasonal less than daily routes and thinks they have done something remarkable.
DL is getting new...
you are the one that is hanging on everything I write so you can post...
it is obvious that UA has the hub at IAH... you manage to figure other things out but can't figure that out.
AA is flying an overweight 787 to BNE because Boeing can't deliver the new aircraft.
UA adds a bunch of narrowbody seasonal less than daily routes and thinks they have done something remarkable.
DL is getting new widebodies delivered by the dozens each year and is starting new routes and taking routes over for their JV partners.
You can't stand reality.
It's no wonder you talk so much about alcohol because that is the only way you can live the crumbling life you have around you
lol
Oh tim
First you can’t spell brasilia
Then you seem to think a delta neo can fly more than 4100 miles
Then you talk about two carriers on ATL-bsb
Then you want to chat about American’s hub at iah lol
Come back when you’re serious and done some research
You’re not a challenge
But I do note you go back to your delta widebody delivery timetable when you’re out of things to say lol
How are you such a loser?
let me guess.
you can't stand the thought that Delta really could challenge AA's dominance to Latin America w/ service from MIA to secondary destinations in S. America.
Delta's decision on NEOs isn't a life long decision and LA also has NEOs.
and you clearly can't stand that DL will receive dozens of new widebodies per year when AA and UA struggle to receive a handful COMBINED.
no, the loser is anyone that continues to...
let me guess.
you can't stand the thought that Delta really could challenge AA's dominance to Latin America w/ service from MIA to secondary destinations in S. America.
Delta's decision on NEOs isn't a life long decision and LA also has NEOs.
and you clearly can't stand that DL will receive dozens of new widebodies per year when AA and UA struggle to receive a handful COMBINED.
no, the loser is anyone that continues to trash people that tell you realities you don't like
Right
So you were wrong on everything I mentioned? Thanks for confirming.
Stop being such a complete loser and just move on when you’re embarrassingly proven 100% wrong
Stop assuming everyone else is as neurotic as you. I could care less about the thought of delta doing anything
Get a life
Boston (and environs) hosts the largest brazillian community in the US and the largest concentration of brazilans outside of Brazil. Jan-March are the Summer months in Brazil, with awesome weather, carnaval, beaches and everybody having a good time. I think this route will work for Delta.
‘Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines’
How can Tim even try to put Delta in the same league as global airlines? Just focusing on U.S. airlines Delta flies to 89 international destinations, American flies to 92 international destinations and United flies to over 120 international destinations. As Ben recently pointed out in an article about United, he says that United is truly the leader...
‘Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines’
How can Tim even try to put Delta in the same league as global airlines? Just focusing on U.S. airlines Delta flies to 89 international destinations, American flies to 92 international destinations and United flies to over 120 international destinations. As Ben recently pointed out in an article about United, he says that United is truly the leader among the U.S. airlines when it comes to being a global airline as it flies to more international destinations than any other U.S. airlines. At least, United tries new routes and makes it worthwhile for the customers while Delta only looks after its bottom line.
‘ Delta is the only US airline that is buying widebody aircraft from Airbus. Everybody else is dependent on Boeing and their problems.’
Yes, which shows Delta’s hypocrisy when it joined other U.S. airlines to talk smack about the ME3 when back then Delta only bought foreign made aircraft and back in 2017 it had the audacity to talk about protecting American jobs when it bought a lot of airplanes from Airbus.
Yes, now it is a different story as Boeing is going through its own troubles but I just wanted to point out Delta’s hypocrisy and no matter what Delta did or does there will always be Tim with his own Delta poms poms cheering them to the end.
You and a whole lot of other people simply confuse what is sexy for what matters.
All US airlines and most global airlines are for profit companies.
Delta has long earned the most profit among US airlines and even among airlines from other countries on its international network.
As for United, the whole point of my commentary is that United is the only US airline that flies a dedicated fleet of widebodies for...
You and a whole lot of other people simply confuse what is sexy for what matters.
All US airlines and most global airlines are for profit companies.
Delta has long earned the most profit among US airlines and even among airlines from other countries on its international network.
As for United, the whole point of my commentary is that United is the only US airline that flies a dedicated fleet of widebodies for domestic purposes, those are the oldest widebodies in its fleet with far less space per passenger than any other US carrier widebody, UA has the oldest and least efficient fleet among all global airlines, and UA can't get new widebodies.
Tell us how many airlines have more than 165 widebodies and fly more ASMs than DL. The list is not long.
AA has a considerably smaller international network and revenue.
the whole reason I write what I write is because of the arrogance of UA management which is parroted by people like you that think that flying to every hamlet on the planet is laudable when UA is much, much smaller than AA and DL in the domestic network and also makes less money than DL on the bottom line - even after the CrowdStrike incident in this past quarter.
UA touted the size of its network while ordering even more MAXs and 787s during the pandemic and had a pretty small window in time to grow before it had to dedicate huge portions of its new aircraft acquisitions for fleet replacement.
Boeing isn't delivering either the number of MAXs or 787s that UA ordered - and yet another UA strategic plan is being shot full of holes -as many of us said would be the case.
WN was excessively dependent on Boeing and is now in the position of having a shrinking fleet because airplanes run out of time before overhauls become very, very costly and not worth doing. With the oldest fleet among major airlines in the world, UA is not far from that point unless Boeing delivers at rates much higher than they are doing now, esp. for widebodies.
All of the big 3 have orders with Airbus and Boeing - Delta just made Airbus its PRIMARY supplier which is why DL is getting new airplane delivered at a much faster rate compared to scheduled deliveries than AA or UA or WN or AS.
DL already committed to significant growth in the international market by replacing its 777s with A350s - and DL now has the most fuel efficient widebody fleet among US carriers, much closer to foreign carriers than AA or UA. Fuel efficiency matters on long haul flights. UA's dependence on a fleet of 100 777s costs it hundreds of millions of dollars in extra fuel burn per quarter compared to DL on the same routes.
And Airbus and Boeing are treated the same for tariff purposes by EU and US airlines. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about when talking about why DL led the charge against the ME3.
DL's new generation widebody fleet will match the size of UA's 787 fleet by the end of the year.
DL and UA both operate the 767 but DL is retiring parts of its 767 fleet while UA holds onto every aircraft it can.
The A330CEO burns 12-13% less fuel than the 777-200ER and DL's 330CEO fleet is younger than AA or UA's 777-200/ER fleet.
it is precisely for people like you that I write what I write.
You neither understand about what you write or you intentionally write incorrect information out of arrogance. The end result is the same.
DL has the international aircraft to grow while AA and UA do not appear to have received a single new 787 from Boeing this year.
DL can and will keep growing. UA's own execs said on their last earnings call that the heady international growth from UA would no longer be coming.
DL will continue to grow its international network and its executives have said Asia will be a major part of DL's growth.
DL and UA already are nearly identically sized to Europe and Africa even with UA's use of narrowbody aircraft; UA's larger transatlantic size is due to UA's service to India and the Arab Middle East which DL does not serve.
DL will overtake UA in size to Brazil and Argentina this winter - even without considering the Latam JV.
Meanwhile UA no longer is concerned about trying to aggressively grow its domestic network which is why it is happy to use 737s to fly international routes even though it is receiving less than half of the new MAXs it was supposed to receive. UA doesn't have the widebodies to use for new routes so has no choice but to take domestic aircraft that could be expanding domestic markets in order to fly to these "sexy" new international destinations.
DL will simply erode the size advantage UA has in international markets while UA will not grow anywhere close to AA or DL's size in domestic markets.
As long as you and others fail to understand what is really happening in the airline industry and deride other companies with arrogance, I will have plenty of reason to remain involved in aviation social media.
Wow an 880 word screed about profitability... we aren't stock analysts, we're interested in flying to Nuuk. And Delta won't get you there.
@quorumcall was it only 880 words? Is he actually writing less in his incessant rant? I so agree with you about being able to fly to Nuuk from the U.S. and yeah DL will not get you there. Tim missed my point but you got it.
I don’t care at all about DL’s stocks but as a traveler I care about the destinations for example among other things that travelers care more about. Yes,...
@quorumcall was it only 880 words? Is he actually writing less in his incessant rant? I so agree with you about being able to fly to Nuuk from the U.S. and yeah DL will not get you there. Tim missed my point but you got it.
I don’t care at all about DL’s stocks but as a traveler I care about the destinations for example among other things that travelers care more about. Yes, Tim is proving my point. Companies look at profits but at least with United they care about how they can provide more destinations to its customers instead of just profits.
As Scott Kirby said:
‘ And so we look across the globe, we look for new destinations, we look for hot destinations and destinations, most importantly, we can make money in.’
exactly this! Delta can earn as much as it wants but if that profit doesn’t go toward what customers like us want (new destinations!), how much they’re making is beside the point
The relatively few words I write pale in comparison to the years of drivel we have heard from UA's C Suite and has been echoed by its fan kids ever since the beginning of the pandemic.
You and others prove including UA's C Suite that you are aviation nuts and not serious about the holistic reality of aviation by being impressed by dots and lines on a map - which is why you echo the...
The relatively few words I write pale in comparison to the years of drivel we have heard from UA's C Suite and has been echoed by its fan kids ever since the beginning of the pandemic.
You and others prove including UA's C Suite that you are aviation nuts and not serious about the holistic reality of aviation by being impressed by dots and lines on a map - which is why you echo the non-sense that finances don't matter.
UA has done a great job in improving its finances but they do incredibly dumb stuff like its Asia/S. Pacific expansion last winter with large portions of that expansion backfiring and having to be withdrawn.
All the routes and dots in the world don't matter if they aren't profitable and UA execs themselves drew the line on flinging planes across the Pacific even though many of us knew those routes would lose money.
What you fundamentally can't stand to admit is that, if UA can make money flying internationally, other airlines can - and Delta is simply far better positioned to expand its international network than UA is right now - and that will be the case for years to come.
DL was the largest carrier across the Pacific after the NW merger but quickly starting eliminating what didn't make money and then had to deal w/ the Japanese government decision to open Haneda - but not to DL's hub. DL and KE are the two best positioned airlines to connect the US to Asia via ICN than AA or UA could ever do via Japan.
DL will grow its presence down the Pacific rim and will do it using much more economical aircraft.
DL and UA are very close to the same size in revenue across the Atlantic if you take out UA's service to India and the Arab Middle East. DL will serve both of those regions.
DL scored a huge coup by getting the JV w/ LA and it will in time position DL to not just overtake UA in Latin America but to give AA a serious run for its money.
UA execs and their fans never bother to talk about the risks of their strategies or admit when their strategies don't work.
- UA made a huge amount of noise about their massive Boeing fleet purchases and the growth that would allow and yet Boeing has struggled for decades to deliver quality products on time.
- DL is simply larger in the eastern US with larger hubs than UA which gives DL a better position than AA or UA to serve Europe, Africa, the Middle East and India
- The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the 787 in terms of range and efficiency, even with just the -900 compared to the -9 and yet DL has at least 20 A350-1000s coming and those planes are unmatched by anything else in the world.
UA cannot even fly ORD-India or ORD or EWR to E. Asia other than Tokyo while DL has been flying DTW-PVG with early model A350s even before the seat reconfigurations have taken place.
and the major point is that DL is even getting new aircraft delivered while UA is not getting anywhere what it should be getting from Boeing. Half of UA's total fleet growth in 2024 will come from Airbus and yet Airbus cannot produce any more A321NEOs and UA has repeatedly pushed back their A350 order.
DL is in a position to grow; no matter how great UA's network is, it quickly loses its advantage if DL can grow much faster and that is already happening
Add in that UA will have to start retiring narrowbody and widebody aircraft - just as DL is doing - or their fleet will get more and more costly to overhaul and still will miss out on the cost savings from new aircraft.
You and UA's C Suite would do well to be honest about the real risks that many of us saw years ago developing and are now becoming reality.
UA's vaunted leadership position is increasingly fragile in the international marketplace while it significantly trails AA, DL and WN in the domestic marketplace where US airlines have long made the majority of their profits - and UA not only can't get the narrowbodies to grow its hubs like it said it would but it is taking valuable narrowbody aircraft to operate seasonal international routes on a less than daily basis all for the sake of having a "sexy" network which woo some of you.
Real people can see through the smoke. UA had its moment of international growth; the rest of the decade very likely will be DL's and it will be based on sustainable routes even to cities that are already served. But it will be based on a sustainable, year round presence rather than flash in the pants additions in the name of a prestigious route network that neither UA execs nor you can even quantify the value of.
830 words from Tim to basically say "I don't know what I'm saying but Delta rocks"
Your weird thing with United is just that... weird
Did Scott Kirby hurt you? Have you actually realized that Delta is less profitable than United absent refineries and labor issues? Because. The average person would have that takeaway. Delta has a huge financial advantage from mostly non-union labor yet is still about to be overtaken by United in margin...
Let’s not forget latam is down an aircraft because of the incident in Milan.
yes, Latam is down an aircraft.
As much as the mental midgets below don't want to hear it, Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines - to use its fleet not just to grow but to cover fleet needs for its JV partners.
By fleet tracking sites, AA has received ZERO of the SIX 787s it was due to receive in 2024. UA has received...
yes, Latam is down an aircraft.
As much as the mental midgets below don't want to hear it, Delta is by far in the best position among US airlines - and among many global airlines - to use its fleet not just to grow but to cover fleet needs for its JV partners.
By fleet tracking sites, AA has received ZERO of the SIX 787s it was due to receive in 2024. UA has received ZERO of the EIGHT 787s it was due to receive in 2024. HA has received TWO 787s in 2024.
Delta is on track to receive 14 new A330NEOs and A350s in 2024.
Even with retirement of some of its 767-300ER fleet, the refurbishment of its ex-Latam A350-900 fleet which is underway and might be completed by next summer (while AA postpones its 777W cabin refurbishment project), DL is still adding new widebody flights, expanding its network in the S. Pacific, and covering for its JV partners.
This addition is all about DL having the widebody aircraft which other airlines do not have the aircraft to grow.
For years, we have had to endure the endless drone of UA management about their growth plans which has been repeated endlessly by UA's fans.
UA really has not received many new aircraft since it made that pronouncement but has shuffled aircraft around its network and continues to do so.
AA chose to retire its 767 and A330 fleets during the pandemic and has largely not chosen to replace them.
DL not only simply pushed back new aircraft deliveries that were scheduled to arrive during the pandemic to 2024 and be yond but added to its order book with at least 20 new A350-1000s to give it the most capable and efficient widebody that will exist in the US carrier fleet. The first of those 35Ks might arrive months ahead of schedule in 2025 as Delta appears to be taking over some of VS' A350 orders.
DL will be growing its international network and doing it far more than other airlines, including those that try to woo the world by keeping a bunch of 737s out of domestic service where those planes could be used because Airbus will supply half of even the narrowbodies that United will receive in 2024.
Delta was the only airline that bucked the US industry in choosing Airbus widebodies. DL's strategy will pay off handsomely in the next few years as AA and UA and even AS try to keep a stiff upper lip but will watch DL grow its international and domestic network while those that sought Boeing as their primary supplier will suffer endless delays and strategic losses.
Regardless of whether some people want to attack anyone that tells them that reality, that is the reality that DL's ability to take over flying for LA means.
and it means that DL will be doing international growing in the next few years.
Is it me, or would the timing be so much better if reverses? 21:00 BOS departure gets you in around 8:45 and 10:45 departure from GRU gets you in around 18:40. I doubt there are good connections on the BOS side seeing how far in the northeast corner it’s in. Connections to Europe don’t make sense either. For VFR travelers, the timing isn’t that big of an issue, however, as a tourist, 20:45 is a...
Is it me, or would the timing be so much better if reverses? 21:00 BOS departure gets you in around 8:45 and 10:45 departure from GRU gets you in around 18:40. I doubt there are good connections on the BOS side seeing how far in the northeast corner it’s in. Connections to Europe don’t make sense either. For VFR travelers, the timing isn’t that big of an issue, however, as a tourist, 20:45 is a bit late to arrive, especially if immigration queues are long. That time seems a bit late to connect o wards to Argentina or Chile also. On the other hand, if you reverse the timing, an 18:40 arrival into Boston isn’t bad, though the queue can get long as the later Euro flights arrive that time.
again, LA is flying the route currently w/ the same timings. While you are probably right that a different timing could create more connections, the route works for LA. DL clearly sees no reason to change the route during the months it operates esp. since it coincides with a peak travel period
I think you have a good point here. I don't know if this is about available slots or ATC restrictions, but it would make perfect sense to me!
It would make perfect sense to offer people connections on partner LATAM to get further into South America, as LATAM has a hub at GRU.
For connecting in the US, I guess only places in the North East would be relevant, and most -if not...
I think you have a good point here. I don't know if this is about available slots or ATC restrictions, but it would make perfect sense to me!
It would make perfect sense to offer people connections on partner LATAM to get further into South America, as LATAM has a hub at GRU.
For connecting in the US, I guess only places in the North East would be relevant, and most -if not all- connections Delta offers from BOS are either further to the south or to the west or both, so people'd be flying back and forth. You're right about international connections being nonsensical, as the USA doesn't offer a possibility for smooth international to international connections. Standing in line for 3 hours at immigration would certainly make you miss any connection to Europe (which actually depart quite often late at night, though). So the US is a place to avoid when getting from South America to Europe. Apart from that, there are lots of direct flights already, the ties with Spain and Portugal are still strong. And besides that, who'd voluntarily fly an extra 9 hours on a mediocre dump like Delta if any other option is available?
The Boston area is home to one of the largest Brazilian diasporas in the U.S. The flights are scheduled to align with connections at LATAM’s GRU hub, rather than Delta’s Boston hub, as the majority of passengers have Boston as their primary origin or destination.
Recently, I flew on an AA late morning flight from Miami to Boston and was surprised by the number of Brazilians taking the flight (who I assumed were connecting...
The Boston area is home to one of the largest Brazilian diasporas in the U.S. The flights are scheduled to align with connections at LATAM’s GRU hub, rather than Delta’s Boston hub, as the majority of passengers have Boston as their primary origin or destination.
Recently, I flew on an AA late morning flight from Miami to Boston and was surprised by the number of Brazilians taking the flight (who I assumed were connecting in MIA from the flights that had arrived from Brazil that morning).
have a feeling this is due to the new A330 pilot crew base in BOS this year. Only winter routes on the A330 are CDG, AMS, LHR, HNL (although it switches to a 763 in Spring)
they haven't even announced an opening date for the BOS 330 pilot base so far as I know but even if they have, it won't make a difference in staffing for the base in the first couple months of operation.
Boston has the largest Brazilian community in US I think that has something to do with that
If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end.
As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter.
In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from...
If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end.
As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter.
In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from Boeing.
Most of DL's new widebodies are coming or came after the summer so were of no use during the most peak summer period.
DL is beginning conversion of the ex-Latam 359s to the new DL standard 35H configuration.
They are also retiring several 767s between now and the spring but they still have more widebodies during the winter that they need for their international schedule and still have some for 2025 growth - in addition to the 11 confirmed Airbus widebodies they will receive in 2025 although some could also be received in the 2nd half of the year and not usable for the peak summer period.
Competitively, I believe with this addition, DL will overtake UA as the 2nd largest US airline at GRU even on its own metal.
DL appears to have a good plan to use its extra widebodies during the winter in markets other than to Europe is also operating double daily ATL-EZE and ATL-SCL for a couple months during the winter as well in addition to their increased service to the S. Pacific.
There are other routes to S. America which DL could take over from LA even on a seasonal basis if this works.
You need help
in other words, you don't like the answer, esp. the reminder that Delta is getting new widebody aircraft while AAL and UAL are both decrying the fact that Boeing is not delivering aircraft for them.
Delta is fat with aircraft this winter awaiting new route launches next year.. They have the aircraft to launch new routes and take over other routes from their JV partners.
Are you really this lame in real life? Do you have any friends, at all?
You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends. I find absolutely nothing social about talking to a bunch of anonymous, dirt slinging individuals.
You and others clearly cannot stand the fact that I speak what I want to say, don’t care what anyone thinks, and tell you the truth that you don’t want to hear.
if you or others had half of a brain, you would realize...
You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends. I find absolutely nothing social about talking to a bunch of anonymous, dirt slinging individuals.
You and others clearly cannot stand the fact that I speak what I want to say, don’t care what anyone thinks, and tell you the truth that you don’t want to hear.
if you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say
in this case, Delta has aircraft available for expansion because it developed a viable aircraft sourcing plan years ago. Boeing has had problems for nearly 2 decades delivering the planes that it said it would deliver. Airbus is delivering widebody aircraft to Delta on time.
Delta built its post recovery plan around aggressive international growth in the 2024 period And forward.
American had an A350 order but canceled it. United still has A350s on order but keeps pushing it back. Hawaiian also had A350s on order.
The fact that Delta can grow now and other airlines cannot to anywhere near the same extent is a result of the choices that each airline made years ago.
Delta’s ability to add flights to Brazil South Korea and other places is a result of it having airplanes that other airlines do not have.
The more you come to grips with that reality and quit trying to shoot the messenger, the happier we all will be
"Do you have any friends, at all?"
Verdict: Nope
How come you added other US carriers in the conversation when those aforementioned carriers had literally nothing to do with the topic?
Seriously, what does HA have anything to do with the topic?
You seriously are not capable of reading that this has to do with available aircraft?
Delta is the only US airline that is buying widebody aircraft from Airbus. Everybody else is dependent on Boeing and their problems.
Are you really trying to say United and AA don't have available widebodies January to March? AA barely has any but even they do...
How do you come up with this stupidity?
Again, what does HA not getting planes have ANYTHING to do with the topic??? What part of my comment don't you understand?
As another example, it's like saying DL will start flying ATL-DOH however HA won't be able to because they aren't getting planes from Boeing.
Your extremely biased views on DL has gone from pathological to severely pathological over the years.
Is this all you think and dream of 24/7???
"You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends."
I don't think anyone assumes you participate for any reason other than loneliness and jealousy of those that succeeded in the industry, unlike you in the comment section.
"If you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say"
Please. Say what you want. You...
"You are seriously mistaken if you think I participate in aviation social media for the friends."
I don't think anyone assumes you participate for any reason other than loneliness and jealousy of those that succeeded in the industry, unlike you in the comment section.
"If you or others had half of a brain, you would realize that the more you try to denigrate me, the more I say"
Please. Say what you want. You do an amazing job making yourself look like an idiot.
"The fact that Delta can grow now and other airlines cannot to anywhere near the same extent is a result of the choices that each airline made years ago."
Right... in January to March... when no one is using their widebodies fully.
please list the widebody routes that American is adding in 2025, do the same for United and then do it for Delta.
Delta is retiring 767s, refurbishing its ex-Latam A350s, will take 14 new Airbus widebodies in 2024 and close to that amount in 2025.
Tell us how many new 787s AA and UA have received in 2024.
Delta has plenty of widebodies and is adding widebody routes while AA is adding some new widebody...
please list the widebody routes that American is adding in 2025, do the same for United and then do it for Delta.
Delta is retiring 767s, refurbishing its ex-Latam A350s, will take 14 new Airbus widebodies in 2024 and close to that amount in 2025.
Tell us how many new 787s AA and UA have received in 2024.
Delta has plenty of widebodies and is adding widebody routes while AA is adding some new widebody routes at the expense of flights it is suspending - and United announced a bunch of narrowbody, heavily seasonal routes.
DL can add new flights and cover for its JV partners.
You can't stand that reality so resort to denigrating me.
If what I said about the subject was wrong, you would focus on that... but you can't so you focus on me.
"If what I said about the subject was wrong,"
-It WAS wrong because 1/2 your comment had nothing to do with the subject matter.
Let's break this down for once.
"If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end."
Great reaction, to the point and on topic. You could have stopped here.
"As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter."
Ok, nice addition, nice to mention, but a...
Let's break this down for once.
"If the flight works for LA with the current timings, it works for DL. They have a JV. There are connections at BOS and certainly on the GRU end."
Great reaction, to the point and on topic. You could have stopped here.
"As for aircraft availability, all US airlines use more widebodies in the summer than in the winter."
Ok, nice addition, nice to mention, but a bit like kicking in an open door, to be honest. It's not exactly new information.
"In addition, DL will receive 14 new Airbus widebodies this year - more than twice the number of 787s that AA, UA and HA will receive from Boeing."
Here we go again. A completely off-topic rant and somehow UA and AA need to be involved. Even worse, they need to be shat on and made look bad - even about things beyond their control and which have literally nothing to do with the topic. It's as if Timmy only gains self worth and self confidence by kicking others down instead of climbing up by himself. Very sad.
"Most of DL's new widebodies are coming or came after the summer so were of no use during the most peak summer period."
Irrelevant.
"DL is beginning conversion of the ex-Latam 359s to the new DL standard 35H configuration."
Irrelevant.
"They are also retiring several 767s between now and the spring but they still have more widebodies during the winter that they need for their international schedule and still have some for 2025 growth - in addition to the 11 confirmed Airbus widebodies they will receive in 2025 although some could also be received in the 2nd half of the year and not usable for the peak summer period."
Since this is about a swap of metal for about 10 weeks, since this involves an A330 and since this topic has absolutely nothing to do with anything that might happen later on in 2025, nor on completely different routes, I'd call it off topic.
"Competitively, I believe with this addition, DL will overtake UA as the 2nd largest US airline at GRU even on its own metal."
Irrelevant and speculation. Being the carrier with the second most 'US metal' at some airport doesn't say anything, really. It's about a temporary 10 week aircraft swap, it's not a long term strategic investment that's being discussed. Besides, given that the 3 US legacy carriers fly to and from different hubs, have different strategies and appeal to different audiences, making literally every route or aircraft a competition is truly apples and oranges, or rather complete bollocks.
"DL appears to have a good plan to use its extra widebodies during the winter in markets other than to Europe is also operating double daily ATL-EZE and ATL-SCL for a couple months during the winter as well in addition to their increased service to the S. Pacific."
Again, off topic and irrelevant here. This is about a short term aircraft swap on a route to Brazil.
"There are other routes to S. America which DL could take over from LA even on a seasonal basis if this works."
They could also ask Air Belgium for some nice wet lease agreements if they're shorthanded, for example. Again, off topic and speculation, there's no incentive to assume this may be considered.
I side with Julie and many others here: please seek help.
the only "breakdown" necessary is that DL is receiving new Airbus widebodies on schedule at a far greater rate than AA, UA and HA - and that makes all the difference in what DL can do both for its JV partners and in growing its network.
The only people that need help are those that can't stand to accept that reality
Just how many widebody plane does DL have? A little bit over 100..and how much does United have? That's right TWICE as much as DL. How many widebody planes does DL have on order? 40 and how many does United have??? ONE-HUNDRED & NINTY-FIVE. Let that sink in.
DL needs widebody planes because barely has any in the first place.
I'm sure you'll put some lame spin on this as well - such as...
Just how many widebody plane does DL have? A little bit over 100..and how much does United have? That's right TWICE as much as DL. How many widebody planes does DL have on order? 40 and how many does United have??? ONE-HUNDRED & NINTY-FIVE. Let that sink in.
DL needs widebody planes because barely has any in the first place.
I'm sure you'll put some lame spin on this as well - such as DL's CAPEX is well maintained meanwhile UA will have to sell its soul to the devil to get the widebodies it has on order. Or some nonsense such as that.
do you seriously think DL has only a little over 100 widebodies?
I used to respect you but when you make statements like you have, I truly am not surprised the conclusions you come to.
DL's widebody fleet including 767s is over 165 and should hit 170 by the end of the year with DL's final A330NEO and A350 deliveries for 2024.
UA simply does not have 340 widebody aircraft. In fact, they have...
do you seriously think DL has only a little over 100 widebodies?
I used to respect you but when you make statements like you have, I truly am not surprised the conclusions you come to.
DL's widebody fleet including 767s is over 165 and should hit 170 by the end of the year with DL's final A330NEO and A350 deliveries for 2024.
UA simply does not have 340 widebody aircraft. In fact, they have about 220 including their 767s and also including about 20 777As that are used exclusively for domestic flights. DL uses some widebodies for domestic flights such as to Hawaii but the actual difference in the size of DL and UA's international widebody fleet is less than 20 aircraft.
And DL will receive at least 11 new widebodies in 2025 and maybe the first A35Ks ahead of the original estimate, likely increasing the number of 35Ks DL will receive.
When you factor in that the 35Ks will seat somewhere around 50-75 more people than UA's 787s, DL's growth will come faster solely because of aircraft size.
I don't need to put spin on your horrid post. All I have to do is correct the blatantly correct information. Given how much you otherwise know, it is clear you either simply choose not to seek out facts that you don't want to admit exist or you intentionally manipulate and lie in order to cover the reality which you don't want to admit exists.
When will this be available for sale?
I was planning on purchasing the latam flights for January and they were available earlier this week. Now these flights are nonexistent on all platforms, including both delta and latam websites
The reason is most likely LATAM's refurbishment of 787 cabins (installation of new business class). They probably have a gap in capacity, and delta has excess during winter months...
This new route is a game changer. My son will be here to comment after he finishes his chores.
p-e-n-i-s
Yes Paul - you are an insufferable prick
Anyone venture to guess how much money Delta loses in BOS?
DOT/FTC needs to ban airline joint ventures.
The connections are all on the Brazil side. Not on the Boston side. Delta and latam do cost sharing on their joint venture routes, so there really is no huge difference in terms of cost. This is just an instance where latam has some aircraft availability issues for a certain period of time, so therefore delta is filling in. Don't read anything more into it than that.