An American Airlines pilot is suing the airline because… the company’s pension plan is too “woke?”
In this post:
American faces class action lawsuit over pension
Bryan Spence, a senior American Airlines pilot and US Air Force Lieutenant Colonel who is an F-16 instructor, has filed a class action lawsuit against the Fort Worth-based airline, arguing that the company has invested employees’ retirement savings in investments that “pursue leftist political agendas.” This lawsuit was filed on Friday in US District Court for the Northern District of Texas.
American’s pension plan has around 100,000 members, and around $26 billion in assets. Spence argues that he has suffered financial harm from the airline choosing to invest in and recommending funds that meet ESG goals. For those not familiar, “ESG” stands for environmental, social, and governance, and is a business framework for considering environmental and social issues in the context of corporate governance.
Spence argues that the funds that consider ESG matters underperform financially compared to non-ESG investments, as companies “engage in shareholder activism to achieve ESG policy agendas rather than maximize the risk-adjusted financial returns for plan participants.” Specifically, Spence doesn’t like that policies have been chosen that consider sustainability, race, gender, and LGBTQ+ rights.
Some of American’s funds are specifically labeled as ESG-compliant, but Spence argues that many other funds have ESG goals without being labeled as such. As Spence views it, “many American workers don’t realize that their hard-earned money is being used against them.”
Spence calls this “perhaps the most severe breach of the fiduciary standard in American history,” and states that “firms whose job is to deliver investment returns are instead weaponizing retirement funds, public pensions and other investments in pursuit of nakedly ideological goals.”
Lawsuit demands American top up pension plan
The lawsuit argues that the company’s approach is “flatly inconsistent” with the company’s fiduciary responsibility under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act.
The lawsuit argues that “the unlawful decision to pursue unrelated policy goals over the financial health of the plan is not only flatly inconsistent with Defendants’ fiduciary responsibilities, it jeopardizes the retirement security of hundreds of thousands of American Airlines employees.”
The lawsuit demands that the carrier top up the pension plan to make up for losses from ESG funds, and demands injunctive relief to prevent further violations and mismanagement of the plan.
Bottom line
An American Airlines pilot is suing the airline, arguing that the company’s pension plan picks investments that “pursue leftist political agendas.” He’s arguing that his pension has underperformed, and he wants American to top off the pension plan to make up for this.
If you ask me, it seems a bit extreme to argue that this is “perhaps the most severe breach of the fiduciary standard in American history.” Furthermore, the lawsuit is light on details as to how exactly ESG initiatives are at fault for an underperforming pension. The last statistic I saw suggests that nearly 90% of publicly traded companies have some ESG initiatives in place. So how exactly can Spence argue that these initiatives are what’s causing his underperforming pension?
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, and that’s especially true when we’re talking about something that a vast majority of companies engage in. But I suppose that “wokeness” is just a good scapegoat when something isn’t going as you hope.
What do you make of this lawsuit against American Airlines?
This is not about vaccines or politics. It’s about investments and retirement.
This guy is an Air Force veteran and an F-18 instructor. Factoring that in, he is probably one of the most capable pilots flying for American. Whether you agree with his point of view or not, saying you wouldn't want him to fly your plane is well beyond being ignorant. The division and lack of respect for people having different view points in this country is nauseating. Would you prefer a mediocre pilot that agrees with eveything you do? Morons.
ABOUT TIME SOMEONE SPOKE UP ABOUT THIS.
BlackRock and Vanguard are among the list of top perps. Do your homework and follow the $.
Of course so many argue about this pilots integrity without considering his position. If major corporations began investing in funds which only invested in companies promoted by the far right it would become an issue. When the democrats controlled the house and senate the left boasted that they could do anything they wanted without having to negotiate with the other side. Then when they lost the house and the debt ceiling was being used as...
Of course so many argue about this pilots integrity without considering his position. If major corporations began investing in funds which only invested in companies promoted by the far right it would become an issue. When the democrats controlled the house and senate the left boasted that they could do anything they wanted without having to negotiate with the other side. Then when they lost the house and the debt ceiling was being used as a tool against the spending made without their consent they were called "extremist" and "children". I am not a Republican but I can't stand people not being willing to honestly discuss issues without ad hominim attacks. The author is obviously biased in this opinion but yet again "fair and unbiased" is no longer a common news industry term anymore. We all lose when polarization controls both sides of the moron equation. Trump is a joke and probably a crook. Biden is a joke and probably a crook. Both are old and just like both sides they present their truth. An enormous amount of the population is in the middle. There are gay people who don't want sex education for their children in elementary school and black people who are on the right without brainwashing. If your world is narrow enough to only see right and left as either completely right or wrong then you are the problem. Does esg reduce returns or increase them in the long run? Maybe his child has a lifelong disability he wants to provide for or maybe he wants a bigger fishing boat but those are not the arguments at hand.
Another pilot’s who wants to apply his personal political views on others while claiming he was harmed. The only harm is his embarrassing display of nonsense. Maybe he should have more facts before going out on a thin limb.
It's not about politics...its about Money Making Strategies...and woke investment are losing big time! I have an idea..let those who don't want any part of the Woke Agenda cash out their pensions now and let us invest it the way WE want!
He's 100% correct. The pension fund is not a PAC. It has only one responsibility -- the maximum lawful return on money invested. That includes risk management to ensure the actual realization of that return. Huge bank failures are directly attributable to treating depositor money like it's a PAC. Massive stock value losses are directly attributable to corporate actions the sole motivation is ESG ratings. Fund managers pursuing social and/or political activism of their choices...
He's 100% correct. The pension fund is not a PAC. It has only one responsibility -- the maximum lawful return on money invested. That includes risk management to ensure the actual realization of that return. Huge bank failures are directly attributable to treating depositor money like it's a PAC. Massive stock value losses are directly attributable to corporate actions the sole motivation is ESG ratings. Fund managers pursuing social and/or political activism of their choices instead of the pension beneficiary choices are actually engaging in illegal conflicts of interest and dereliction of fiduciary responsibility by placing their personal social and political interests ahead of pension beneficiary financial interests. The fund managers doing this should head to jail for this. It's criminal.
He's 100% right. These companies are all blackmailed into this ESG nonsense by radical groups pushing agenda over fiduciary responsibility. That 90% of companies have cowed to this woke nonsense doesn't justify it.
Look deeper and you will find he has sold out out country to Russia or China for money. He did not serve our country he used it. People who sue always have massive dirt in their closet.
Another nut case fighting the extremist Culture Wars, Hope this wingnut is never a pilot on any plane I am flying on.
How does this guy not realize ESG type stuff is literally the reason American even has a pension plan? Maximizing short-term shareholder returns implies screwing over the employees.
Setting aside the fact I usually ignore any comment using the word "literally" as illiterate, the guy has a point. Simply search "do ESG funds underperform", and there is solid evidence from multiple reliable sources that funds placing emphasis on ESG considerably underperform the broader market.
Do I think the pilot has a broader political agenda? Yes, quite possibly. But the evidence is clear that there is validity to his claims.
And your statement that...
Setting aside the fact I usually ignore any comment using the word "literally" as illiterate, the guy has a point. Simply search "do ESG funds underperform", and there is solid evidence from multiple reliable sources that funds placing emphasis on ESG considerably underperform the broader market.
Do I think the pilot has a broader political agenda? Yes, quite possibly. But the evidence is clear that there is validity to his claims.
And your statement that ESG stuff is responsible for AA having a pension plan at all is just ludicrous.
Fire him
Yes, I do believe that it's pention is social security... As Burned, Spence... Is mearly an alias to whom we know ohh, so well... What is this plan ??? Anyhow??? You whatever, gonna raise the stakes??? F-that... Yes, where are you at this moment??? As well as that 40,000. In flights...
Another trumpian terrorist for the firing squad. You let WHAT pilot my flight? Ewww.
He has a point and the lawsuit definitely has merit. The legal documents don't include any terms such as "leftist" which Ben used for dramatization. The comments here speaks once again volumes about what kind of clientele reads OMAAT these days.
You are wrong Stefan. The legal document does indeed mention "leftist" twice (pages 2 and 19). Therefore, Ben wasn't dramatizaing as you alledge. Your comment speaks volumes on your inability to comprehend fact from fiction.
I’m very curious what pension this person is referring to. All of American’s defined pension plans were frozen after American’s bankruptcy. Only those vested at the time of the bankruptcy receive money from the plan after they retire. It’s a defined plan, you receive a specific amount each month based on vested years in the plan. Rate of return has nothing to do with how much you receive. American’s required to fund to a certain...
I’m very curious what pension this person is referring to. All of American’s defined pension plans were frozen after American’s bankruptcy. Only those vested at the time of the bankruptcy receive money from the plan after they retire. It’s a defined plan, you receive a specific amount each month based on vested years in the plan. Rate of return has nothing to do with how much you receive. American’s required to fund to a certain level of their pension obligations, how they fund it and what they invest in is their business. No matter what their ROI is they are still obligated to fund their pension liabilities and pay a defined benefit to each eligible employee. So what pension is this guy talking about?
Fine, opt out of the pension of you want to. Idiot.
So many silly Americans.
If you think there aren't idiots in your country that probably means that you're one of them.
The norm is how people publish for publish quoted on the internet the go through the issue of before you were born catch 22s about forbidden as welll as they terms off of the internet slang that is a forbidden word called disgusting talk on the internet.
Why doesn’t the company offer an ESG fund and a non-ESG fund?
I bet he is right. Sounds. Like what AAA would do.Remember years ago when they bellied up all the big dogs took the money and ran. My friend loss almost a million dollars in stocks and retirement. Don’t surprise me at all.what reason would he have to lie?
And the Right wing nuts call liberals snowflakes? SMDH
So the fund should not invest in Apple, Microsoft, Google or Meta just to name a few.
The Energy Select ETF(XLF)was $98.57 on 6/23/2014 it drop to a low of $20.88 on 3/18/2020. Today the price is $79.37. The Solar ETF(TAN) was $10.16 on 12/16/ 2016 peaked at $125 on 1/25/21 and to day is $72. Investing in non ESG funds or ESG funds don't guarantee positive or negative returns. But investing in fossil fuels over last 10 to 15 years would have been a loser. Only in 2022 did they outperform and they are again negative this year.
Make money for my retirement. Use your own money for your politics.
You'd be outraged if I used your money for my politics
His intentions are barely veiled but if he gets his way , the pension fund goes belly up then he will still say it's the leftist fail for not letting the airline to invest in the leftist investing pools !!!
GREAT RESPECT FOR THIS PILOT. It takes courage to take on the woke agenda these days. Very interesting that the featured comments attack him. I hope that his lawsuit is successful and that many other employees with retirement plans at the companies follow suit. Good luck go you, Sir
How do the returns compare to VTI, or the S&P 500?
This is totally ridiculous bs. More baseless right wing grievance. They can't even really define "woke".
"Woke" is a right term used by the right for things on the far left, the other side uses the term "maga extremism" for things on the far right. Neither term addresses things specifically because morons like yourself want to push your views you do not wish to discuss things in a rational way. Just look at all the idiots pointing to the left and right in here instead of discussing the facts. Liberals, I...
"Woke" is a right term used by the right for things on the far left, the other side uses the term "maga extremism" for things on the far right. Neither term addresses things specifically because morons like yourself want to push your views you do not wish to discuss things in a rational way. Just look at all the idiots pointing to the left and right in here instead of discussing the facts. Liberals, I always count more of you doing this which does not make you seem intellegent, just loud and often biligerant. If you just wanted to two a party line then maybe licking envelopes is more suited to your intellectual disposition.
I agree with the pilot. Does ESG enhance earnings for the investor or just fund screwed up idealogies without regards for investor enhancement. Sue the crap out of these woke SOBs.
Good. Any company that chooses retirement portfolios based on a social credit score, left or right leaning, and not their returns is not doing their employees and justice.
wow so many comments
Look folks there will be an election next year
So buckle up and get ready Nov 2024
What pension? AAL froze and terminated it's two plans in its 2011 bankruptcy. Is the pilot talking about pre-termination? With the defined benefit plan frozen, retirement benefit amounts are also frozen. There's nothing to top up. AAL now has a self-directed 401K that it contributes a set % of pilot's pay to.
Give me a break. The pilot lives in one of the most right wing states in one of the most right wing nations on earth. Cry me a river. Poor man!!
He says…
“I am an experienced Air Force officer and fighter pilot with over 11 years of experience in the aerospace industry who exhibits expertise in problem solving, project management, and conflict resolution. My strengths are interpersonal skills, critical thinking, empowering employees, and developing future leaders to step up to any challenge. I am recognized for my unique perspectives, innovative thinking, and simplifying complex problems. I am amiable, culturally astute, encourage others to draw from their...
He says…
“I am an experienced Air Force officer and fighter pilot with over 11 years of experience in the aerospace industry who exhibits expertise in problem solving, project management, and conflict resolution. My strengths are interpersonal skills, critical thinking, empowering employees, and developing future leaders to step up to any challenge. I am recognized for my unique perspectives, innovative thinking, and simplifying complex problems. I am amiable, culturally astute, encourage others to draw from their diverse backgrounds, and am focused on dutifully executing the task at hand until the job is complete. I am interested in expanding my horizons by tackling tomorrow's challenges with real world experience. Senior Pilot, 2290 Total Hrs, 1965 PIC, 1780 fighter, 300 Instructor. F-16 Instructor Pilot with 1,500+ hours in all USAF F-16 Blocks including Foreign Military Sales (FMS). Current TS/SCI security clearance and back ground check.
Says “he’s recognized for simplifying complex problems.” As a master of understatement!!
Just don’t say Woke!
Says he’s “culturally astute, encourage others to draw from their diverse backgrounds.” Hm-m…
Just Don’t Say Woke!!
Really sounds like an open minded kinda guy that passengers can feel really comfortable with. Plus, he also defends the skies so we can all sleep more soundly. Just Don’t Say The “W” Word!
And…ifyou’re initials are BS, well, you kinda understand the guy might have a credibility problem, yes?
And as real F-16 fighter pilots are quite fond saying…
YGBSM!! (look it up!!)
As long as American doesn't dump the pension on the PBGC which may happen in the future. So there is no guarantee that they will pay what was promised int the plan.
Hes a complete anti vaxer and anti LGBTQ so go get a job with chick filet or hobby lobby
What a misguided man. The carefully packaged verbiage about some program that supposedly treats all workers equally is not the reason for his misfortunes. Capitalism has failed him because it is focused on the bottom line of the company, not the benefit of the workers. The lawsuit should be directed at the company's top 1% earners.
Radical right wing always has to blame everything on politics. The global view of the world & environmental impact means nothing when pitted against personal gain.
god forbid we think of anything other than profits. Eff our home, my bank account is overflowing!
yea, let's think of activists' profits instead...
I’ll bet he was fun to fly with on a 4-day trip.
Suck it up, snowflake.
ERISA requires the trustee of a pension or 401(k) to act ad the fiduciary and must invest in the most prudent manner. Three have been innumerable lawsuits won by plaintifs against trustees who did intentionally did not invest in funds that maximized returns (i.e., did not act as a fiduciary). Most of these suits involved companies buying their own stock for the 401(k) instead of more lucrative options.
Politics aside, investing because of ESG...
ERISA requires the trustee of a pension or 401(k) to act ad the fiduciary and must invest in the most prudent manner. Three have been innumerable lawsuits won by plaintifs against trustees who did intentionally did not invest in funds that maximized returns (i.e., did not act as a fiduciary). Most of these suits involved companies buying their own stock for the 401(k) instead of more lucrative options.
Politics aside, investing because of ESG status is at odds with ERISA law. Here's an example: company pulls 401(k) investments in oil companies because it's 'bad'. Oil stocks then skyrocket and produce great returns for investors. If the trustee is expected to maximize returns then they have failed as a fiduciary.
Actually, winning under the fiduciary responsibility is incredibly hard because best efforts are generally accepted as reasonable. Those cases you cite where the companies paid in their own stock were easy because there was little or no diversification. If the investment manager can show they had any reason to invest in ESG funds, even just to diversify from the underlying business of AA, they will win. It's a reasonable man standard not something like strict...
Actually, winning under the fiduciary responsibility is incredibly hard because best efforts are generally accepted as reasonable. Those cases you cite where the companies paid in their own stock were easy because there was little or no diversification. If the investment manager can show they had any reason to invest in ESG funds, even just to diversify from the underlying business of AA, they will win. It's a reasonable man standard not something like strict scrutiny.
I agree with the lawsuit. These investment firms forget who they are working for. Their loyalty is owed to their clients ( that's us). I don't want them to get chummy with companies that are in love with ESG ratings for investment purposes. I want them picking winners and if it's a fossil fuel company then that's what I want.
Wow...eff the planet that were leaving for our children and grandchildren of it means I get more money while I'm alive. Great take and I'm sure your grandchildren and great grandchildren will thank you for it. Grow and and think about others, not just about yourself. Jeez people suck.
Forced morality must be the key right? Outlaw smoking, drinking and road trips...unless you have a high enough social score eh comrade?
First, it INST a pension plan people! Its a 401K retirement fund that they are FULLY VESTED in. As such that money should be permitted to be moved into a different 401 that the OWNER has control over. These 401s dont allow movement which forces it to be managed by whomever with very little control by the OWNER.
American's 401k actually gives the owner to invest in a wide variety of investment options including a brokerage account where you can invest in whatever stocks and/or bonds you would like. This article refers to American's pension fund which has been frozen
I guarantee you this pilot is just the frontman for some extremist right wing group that is paying the cost of this bogus lawsuit. Dark money is attacking the very foundations of our country and using right wing media to sow division and enmity.
Yes, I'm certain he secretly doesn't want to see any return on his investment and never retire.
Yeah...I see soooo much right wing media...there's fox news and am radio...did I miss any? It would be nice if some news organizations were still fair and impartial. I cant even watch pbs news because although its public television its openly biased...so maybe find another high horse to climb on because that's ones as dead as the am dial.
Fire the snowflake
Every single pension plan that invests based on anything but the performance of the investments without letting the individual investors know is breaking the law. He is correct. If you would rather call him names and act childish then go ahead. This is know different than you investing in a gold fund and find out you money is being invested in water rights. Completely illegal to not inform your funds investors of the investment strategy....
Every single pension plan that invests based on anything but the performance of the investments without letting the individual investors know is breaking the law. He is correct. If you would rather call him names and act childish then go ahead. This is know different than you investing in a gold fund and find out you money is being invested in water rights. Completely illegal to not inform your funds investors of the investment strategy. Most of the responses here are emotional based from people who have no idea of the legalities involved.
Agreed!
Only a fool would keep their retirement savings long term in the company 401K, most people with a high school diploma or higher will transfer it out to a personal IRA account.
Maybe you don't have that option while still employed
This is a pension plan you can't move it. Old AA pilots have frozen pensions that are still funded.
good for him. it's about time someone stands up against the woke agenda that's destroying us from within
That's right. Equality is not for all.
One is born equal. After that it is up to your parents and ultimately your own efforts.
FFS, this new extremist invective of "woke" is as tired as when they used to call out anyone whose policies they disagreed with as "socialist."
Get over it. If he doesn't like the company's policies he can find a new job.
I saw a RAINBOW in the SKY the other day!
The SKY has gone woke!
BOYCOTT THE SKY!
BOYCOTT AIR!
Well Neff, guess you're right. Its obviously already destroyed your brain and ability to think.
AA should drain his savings by dragging out the lawsuit.. if his case is thrown out, AA should counte sue him.
Bravo Captain: it is time to make a stand against this nonsense. Especially when it has a negative impact on family’s, such as this blatant redistribution of savings.
Social & environmental consciousness is "nonsense"?
Sad for you.
It's their pension and they should have the ability to direct it as they seem pleased.
Bravo Captain, it is time to make a stand against all of this nonsense. Good for you.
What nonsense is that?
Using this gentlemans logic, I'll have to have a long discussion with our personal wealth management firm. When looking over our investment portfolio I can clearly see that some investment opportunities out performed those in our portfolio. I believe that had our wealth management firm engaged a proper conservative psychic they could have significantly improved the returns on our investments. This is definitely a violation of the fiduciary / psychic duty.
Anyone that supports ESG or big government should k I'll themselves.
Tell your parents that.
Maybe advise your parents?
Black Rock, State Street, and Vanguard are financial firms that have trillions of dollars of assets under management. As such, all three wield incredible power over publicly traded corporations, worldwide. Corporations are rated based on ESG compliance. Those who do not meet prescribed standards are pressured by the big investment firms to comply or lose capital investment. There are two sides to this story and if you favor fair investment policies, my suggestion is that...
Black Rock, State Street, and Vanguard are financial firms that have trillions of dollars of assets under management. As such, all three wield incredible power over publicly traded corporations, worldwide. Corporations are rated based on ESG compliance. Those who do not meet prescribed standards are pressured by the big investment firms to comply or lose capital investment. There are two sides to this story and if you favor fair investment policies, my suggestion is that you take the time to get to the truth. A good place to start is with Allan S Roth of https://daretobedull.com/. Roth has a long standing reputation of high integrity.
100% WHAT HE SAID . Also the MAJORITY of airline pilots believe like he does and I support his lawsuit- dissenters are the minority.
The strength of our economy and our democracy is the right to be a dik is shared by all
The suit is absolutely spot on. Woke-ism is a plague that has inserted controversial politics into areas it harms and has no place. Hope to see justice in the pilot's favor and a lesson to others to stop ESG, DEI and whatever other alphabet soup nonsense is similar
Can you define what woke is?
Total non sense suit
Dog whistle – A surreptitious inclusion of code words or phrases that will be heard by some of those listening, while not disturbing the other listeners, who may not appreciate the hidden message(s). – from Urban Dictionary
We all know what MAGAts mean when they say "woke", its the new "N" word dog whistle.
wish the world was as simple as it is in your head, Bob
The concept of a pension plan in 2023 is about as "woke" as it gets. Maybe this guy should just give it up?
He is a moron and useful idiot for culturally backward right wing extremists. He will be unable to prove the plan cost any money due to investments.
Putting all the nonsense comments aside, pretty easy to decide this...
compared to other pension funds, does this one "massively" underperform?
No - dismiss with prejudice.
Yes - maybe he has a case.
Finally someone with a sound mind. While sheep is not aware it's being lead for slaughter.
"led," sweetie... granted, you've clearly been drinking the latter.
There is force behind these plans and how many bud lights & targets do we have to see before we understand, get woke go broke!
Nobody is forcing this twat to put any of his money into the pension plan. Period. Pensions provide a guaranteed amount, so it doesn't matter what the pension manager invests in. It's up to THE AIRLINE to fully fund the pension plan... And when this douche loses (and he will), both he and his lawyers should be sanctioned.
A fudiciary, legally, is required to invest only in stocks that that are in the best financial interest of the client. Nothing else is supposed the matter.
I guarantee you he is a closeted homosexual!
Based on what? Your asinine views?
Bravo Captain: it is time to make a stand against this nonsense. Especially when it has a negative impact on family’s, such as this blatant redistribution of savings.
Ridiculous. If he does not like the investment plan for his company pension he is free to quit and work elsewhere. I’ll bet if you asked him he has no particulars on the investments being made on behalf of the employees.
Ya I am sure he has no idea where his money is being invested but yet filed a lawsuit claiming that. Are you for real?
What has your union done for you lately?
1. Fights for fair pay
2. Fights for worker rights
3. Mediates disputes between management and workers
4. Collectively bargains contracts
5. Makes sure management adheres to contract
Would you like to know more?
Sorry but Im in a right to work state and if I ask about unions I will be fired without a reason given but they at least as an independent contractor I get no benefits, paid days off , vacation etc. My pension is the change jar buddy.
Good for him. I hope he wins his lawsuit. Enough is enough with this woke BS!
What is the meaning of woke?
Oh, Luke, you know that "woke" is clearly defined in the official Antifa mission statement.
The first step in companies disengaging from any type of pension at all. Companies will all stop offering a 401k if it becomes a liability. Some may give you a percentage to invest at the end of the year, but other companies probably will just axe any pension options all together. Just another blow to what is left of the middle class and a decent retirement for most.
Interesting that people would freak out if you took 10k out of a 100k pension( as investing in Target would do. . Fiduciary responsibility means any co exposing losses like this means dump that stock, and that beer.
Why is everyone or so it seems concerned about LGBTQ persons, they only make up less than 4% of the population and yet they are forever complaining that most persons are anti - LGBTQ. Suggest you get over it , last time I looked we still had Freedom of Speech.. Reverting back to the American Airline pilot, he has every right to express his dissatisfaction and disagreement with the way his American Airlines superannuation fund...
Why is everyone or so it seems concerned about LGBTQ persons, they only make up less than 4% of the population and yet they are forever complaining that most persons are anti - LGBTQ. Suggest you get over it , last time I looked we still had Freedom of Speech.. Reverting back to the American Airline pilot, he has every right to express his dissatisfaction and disagreement with the way his American Airlines superannuation fund is wasting his hard earned dollars in companies that are more interested in having a “woke “ agenda than earning profits for their shareholders and investors.
I see you don't understand the numbers. Well over half the country supports equality for the 4% you seek to marginalize.
If he doesn't like it then quit or shut up and fly!
Not everyone is a bootlicker like you. Some people have backbones.
Thought…
Millennia ago we invented money to enable trade, to grow economic activity.
Move on millennia and money now controls us.
Many seem addicted to it. But we do need it.
While it may be hard to prove the esg funds investment has caused financial losses. I fully support the suit if the esg focus has not been fully disclosed. Some people would be disturbed to find their money invested in oil companies or coal companies.
With my 401K, I was able to broadly pick out where I wanted my money to be invested. Nothing about Disney, Target, or Bud Light. I kept my money in real estate. It paid good, and I didn't care who was renting or buying the properties, just so long as I made my money. True capitalism does not discriminate. Show me the money.
Well, well, well....looks like the snowflakes on this website can't handle the truth!
Why are so many woke OMAAT commentators clearly anti-science, anti-reality, and anti-math????
None other than the Harvard Business Review has published the "inconvenient truth" that ESG investing is a woke scam that HARMS investors. It's all about left-wing fanatic virtue signaling.
Here's the article from Harvard Business Review:
https://hbr.org/2022/03/an-inconvenient-truth-about-esg-investing
The airline pilot is 100% accurate. American Airlines is putting...
Well, well, well....looks like the snowflakes on this website can't handle the truth!
Why are so many woke OMAAT commentators clearly anti-science, anti-reality, and anti-math????
None other than the Harvard Business Review has published the "inconvenient truth" that ESG investing is a woke scam that HARMS investors. It's all about left-wing fanatic virtue signaling.
Here's the article from Harvard Business Review:
https://hbr.org/2022/03/an-inconvenient-truth-about-esg-investing
The airline pilot is 100% accurate. American Airlines is putting his hard-earned pension at systemic risk by aligning with scam artists who value feelings (and a dangerous & ignorant socialist ideology) over financial reality and Common Sense Investing 101.
Please define "Socialist".
Did you actually read that (very short) HBR article beyond the clickbaity headline? In summary it says that companies that do ESG properly by incorporating it into their core values do well and those that do it just to chase analyst ratings do badly.
Essentially - good companies are good, bad companies are bad.
Oh puleeeez don't make me fly with that guy. Oof.
Well, again the MSM doesn't surprise or disappoint. You completely misrepresent the facts and deliberately misinform the readers over this subject. Just like a good lapdog leftist media activist should!
Everything the pilot alleges is factually correct.
Prove it
And if the pension plan had invested in strictly non-ESG funds that had under-performed.... he'd be okay with that? And how do you hold ANY investment advisor responsible for under-performance when even the best of them can't predict tomorrow's DJIA closing number, let alone 5, 10 or 20 years from now?
As a securities lawyer, I can say that almost all major public corporations consider ESG factors at this point. To demand that a major pension fund avoid investing in companies that take ESG into account is both absurd and likely impossible.
Also, I wish I could see specifically where this case was filed. While the Northern District of Texas obviously makes sense since American and the plaintiff are based in Fort Worth, I wouldn't...
As a securities lawyer, I can say that almost all major public corporations consider ESG factors at this point. To demand that a major pension fund avoid investing in companies that take ESG into account is both absurd and likely impossible.
Also, I wish I could see specifically where this case was filed. While the Northern District of Texas obviously makes sense since American and the plaintiff are based in Fort Worth, I wouldn't be surprised if they filed the case in Amarillo so they could be in front the hack judge Matthew Kacsmaryk. He loves nothing more but to ignore the law in order to arrive at whatever conservative political outcome he wants and is an embarrassment to the legal and judicial profession.
I work for the state of Indiana. Legislature passed a law this year to ban the state from being able to invest any ESGs for state pensions. Investors said employees as a whole would lose nearly $7 Billion in the next 10 years because of the law. So now I'm going to lose money because our state's "leadership" has decided their new favorite word is "woke".
What an idiot! You don't present all evidence in the court filing. It's obvious that you aren't loosing pension money or you would agree with the lawsuit. It's similar to how Social Security money has been robbed for Social programs to those that didn't pay into it causing the current crisis in it.
Social security funds only go to those who PAID into it and in some cases their dependents.
You just displayed your politics. The pilot is right that ESG forces investments for morality at the expense of gains that keeps the plan solvent. PERS is doing the same.
When big pension plans start failing because of politically motivated investment failures, it will finally obliterate the last reason to trust, talk to or even abide such governance or governors.
Your bottom line is bogus due to you assuming that just because the filing doesn't open the case up to the public that the plaintiff doesn't have the evidence. Many law suits of this complexity take a large amount of investigative time during and throughout the trial process before all the evidence on both sides is laid bare for people to judge. This pilot may be right on with his assumptions. But you are taking...
Your bottom line is bogus due to you assuming that just because the filing doesn't open the case up to the public that the plaintiff doesn't have the evidence. Many law suits of this complexity take a large amount of investigative time during and throughout the trial process before all the evidence on both sides is laid bare for people to judge. This pilot may be right on with his assumptions. But you are taking this and insinuating your own ideology into your assumption by stating that because you can't see it now that the suit has no merit. Report on it, let it play out, report on the proceedings and then present your conclusions,
would be the way an honest unbiased reporter would have presented this story. Not to try to sway folks by bottom lining it in your own bias. JMHO.
About time a suit was filed.
It's pretty simple. Which group of funds has performed better over the period. If the esg funds then fine but if not then aa is liable whether you like it or not. I believe the non ideologically based perform quite a bit better
NOT disappointed in this comment section (◕‿◕)
I fly AA twice a week. If this moron is my pilot, I’m off the flight.
I doubt it
Wow gotta love the “woke” word. Whenever someone who is racist, homophobic, anti climate change speaks out he justifies it because anyone who disagrees is “woke”. Can’t wait for the court hearing when he is asked to define “woke.”
Change Tort Laws... if the suit is frivolous, Lawyers won't pursue as the probability for reward is diminished... then if suit goes to trial, let the courts decide!
HEY EVERYBODY, THESE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET ATTENTION! HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME AS I TELL YOU ABOUT HOW "WOKE" AND THIRSTY THE COMPANY THAT'S EMPLOYED ME IS! I'M AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEWS! THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME AT ALL!
Maximizing shareholder monetary value through all legal means is the sole purpose of a publicly traded company, as a matter of law. If he can prove that any of the ESG activities favored less profit, he will win.
Please do not put me on a plane this nut is piloting!
Let's start calling these people what they really are: religious fundamentalists throwing sand in the gears of the American experiment in the fervent and violently held belief that it was founded as a Christian nation despite the 1st Amendment, and funded by tax free entities that do not have to give up their names.
Spence sounds like a 24 carat tone deaf sphincter with the IQ of a syphillitic-afterbirth of a bastard rat. He pukes his political bent and vents pure nonsense. And he is a PIC for A/A? Precious!!! I’ll fly Spirit before risking a flight onboard with throttled Capt. Peepee pants. Me thinks he suffered far too many bird brain strikes. Suck a wrench Spence. Too many political Clark Bar chomping cock house cowboys at A/A.
As a professional investor, unless directed to do so, I would not invest my or my client's funds into ESG-focused securities unless they were superior performers which on the aggregate, they fall woefully short.
I would suggest a menu-option so that employees can choose. ESG supporters can choose ESG-focused funds and so on. Everyone deserves the right of choice without having to defend themself.
It appears the plaintiff may prevail as no matter how well-intentioned,...
As a professional investor, unless directed to do so, I would not invest my or my client's funds into ESG-focused securities unless they were superior performers which on the aggregate, they fall woefully short.
I would suggest a menu-option so that employees can choose. ESG supporters can choose ESG-focused funds and so on. Everyone deserves the right of choice without having to defend themself.
It appears the plaintiff may prevail as no matter how well-intentioned, the investment objectives are silent to social activism or any other non-performance objective.
Ummm ok. But this is a pension. It must meet ERISA standards.
Wow, I read Josh's comment thinking "okay, this guy wants to argue short-term gain vs. long-term."
But then I continued and they said "...racist initiatives like ESG." For real?
Where does it say that? Do you know how quotes work?
Yes, for real.
How does he demonstrate harm? It's a fixed benefit pension plan. Regardless of the returns, the company has already agreed to pay him X in retirement based on whatever their benefit formula is.
If there's a shortfall in the pension trust fund, the company will have to increase its contributions to shore it up either by changing the discount rate or making a lump sum payment. Considering companies generally don't like to do this, I...
How does he demonstrate harm? It's a fixed benefit pension plan. Regardless of the returns, the company has already agreed to pay him X in retirement based on whatever their benefit formula is.
If there's a shortfall in the pension trust fund, the company will have to increase its contributions to shore it up either by changing the discount rate or making a lump sum payment. Considering companies generally don't like to do this, I suspect the plan is already meeting its goals at the current discount rate or they'd have already ditched the ESG.
Given the fixed nature of a DB pension plans benefits, I fail to see how he can demonstrate any real harm here and therefore have any standing.
This smells much more like a test case/trial balloon financed by some wealthy RWNJs (Theil is known to do things like this), and if successful, they'll then try it elsewhere, such as with government pension trust funds.
Yeah that was my thought too. AA only harms itself if its pension fund investments aren't performing at the level they need to be.
While I agree with you that this case should be immediately thrown out for lack of standing, I'd be curious to see exactly where in the Northern District of Texas this case was filed (can't find the complaint online without paying a fee). While the obvious choice would be Fort...
Yeah that was my thought too. AA only harms itself if its pension fund investments aren't performing at the level they need to be.
While I agree with you that this case should be immediately thrown out for lack of standing, I'd be curious to see exactly where in the Northern District of Texas this case was filed (can't find the complaint online without paying a fee). While the obvious choice would be Fort Worth (where both AA and the plaintiff are based) or Dallas, given that this probably is part of some bigger conservative scheme, it wouldn't surprise me if they filed in Amarillo to get Matthew Kacsmaryk, who hasn't met a conservative cause he won't ignore the law to support. In Kacsmaryk's warped jurisprudence, plaintiffs have standing no matter what if they are pursuing a conservative political outcome.
I tend to agree with you and wouldn’t be surprised if it is Amarillo. The lengths some people will go to has become quite concerning given judges know little about how finance works or FDA studies are conducted but insert their ideology anyway.
AA does not have a fixed benefit plan anymore. It's only 401k. The author of this is confusing the two and has no idea what he's talking about. The pilot may have a frozen pension still from when they did away with them decades ago
Wtong. It has to be over the old pension, because a 401k or deferred comp account would allow for at least some self direction of assets, making this suit moot.
They absolutely have DB pension plans. They have been frozen so AA no longer has to fund them.
Vivek Ramaswamy a GOP candidate who comes from the investment management business has said there are significant examples of ESG underperforming conventional investing strategies. Just do a little digging before you try to paint this pilot as some anti-woke activist.
Heavily biased candidate with no actual scientific data makes unsupportable claim that will make her constituants happy. News at eleven.
If you believe anything that Vivek says, you’re an idiot.
And I can find you a bunch of research that says that ESG funds outperform those that don’t consider those factors. The thing is, just being good at environmental, social and governance doesn’t make for good or bad financial performance on their own, the company has to have a good strategy, good execution and do good business.
Especially when it comes to returns in the long run you want a company that can demonstrate...
And I can find you a bunch of research that says that ESG funds outperform those that don’t consider those factors. The thing is, just being good at environmental, social and governance doesn’t make for good or bad financial performance on their own, the company has to have a good strategy, good execution and do good business.
Especially when it comes to returns in the long run you want a company that can demonstrate it is set up for the long haul - takes care of the world in which it does business, serves and employs from the widest possible community and manages its human capital well, and is a well run company with high standards of probity - this is what ESG means - a company demonstrating it is set up for the long haul.
Ok post them here…
No, you can't. Those of us who work in the business are well aware that ESG funds underperform regularly, and significantly more frequently than they outperform their non-ESG peers. This is why intelligent advisors recommend them only as an offering for the choice of participants in defined contribution plans, where the plan participants may opt in or opt out by selecting where their investment funds will go.
Placing ESG-oriented funds in a pension plan is...
No, you can't. Those of us who work in the business are well aware that ESG funds underperform regularly, and significantly more frequently than they outperform their non-ESG peers. This is why intelligent advisors recommend them only as an offering for the choice of participants in defined contribution plans, where the plan participants may opt in or opt out by selecting where their investment funds will go.
Placing ESG-oriented funds in a pension plan is a litigation risk the industry is well aware of. In 2021-2022, most ESG-oriented funds underperformed their non-ESG peers: part of the reason this occurs is that ESG-oriented funds do not invest in defense, extraction (oil, mining, LNG), or vice (alcohol, gambling, etc) industries. The end result is that ESG funds often overweight tech businesses which arguably shouldn't qualify as ESG (Apple/Foxcon's China human rights issues? EV environmental impact from rare earth metal strip-mining in Asia and Africa?). Those tech stocks are volatile and while they perform well in an aggressive growth market, when the bear market strikes they suffer badly. The tech sector was down over 30% in 2022, and ESG funds suffered.
Any comment here that doesn't understand how bad ESG is for investors is coming from either ignorance or partisanship. I would be pissed too if my fiduciaries were not investing my funds properly, but instead putting them into racist initiatives like ESG.
1283 of the 1350 biggest companies in the world by market cap have ESG goals. 99% of all American companies reported some ESG information to the IFAC. You really only want your money invested in the 67 that dont? It's not my money, so do what you want with it, but that's a very stupid investment.
Stop hiding behind it being about sound investing. Everyone knows that's a lie. It's not even because the companies...
1283 of the 1350 biggest companies in the world by market cap have ESG goals. 99% of all American companies reported some ESG information to the IFAC. You really only want your money invested in the 67 that dont? It's not my money, so do what you want with it, but that's a very stupid investment.
Stop hiding behind it being about sound investing. Everyone knows that's a lie. It's not even because the companies are taking a political stance. It's because it's a stance you don't like personally. If they we're investing in companies that tout far right conservative ideas, you would be on the ground licking the dirt from their boots.
@Daniel - I don't think that's an accurate representation of the issue at hand here.
Indeed most large enterprise, surely the component companies have a stated ESG goal / listed it in their "Mission", ESG investing do incorporate specific goal/value judgement of the fund/money manager.
ExxonMobil have a ESG Goal. Yet surely no environmental-minded person/fund will champion them for their performance in the "E" of ESG. e.g., Neither Fidelity® Climate Action Fund nor Fidelity®...
@Daniel - I don't think that's an accurate representation of the issue at hand here.
Indeed most large enterprise, surely the component companies have a stated ESG goal / listed it in their "Mission", ESG investing do incorporate specific goal/value judgement of the fund/money manager.
ExxonMobil have a ESG Goal. Yet surely no environmental-minded person/fund will champion them for their performance in the "E" of ESG. e.g., Neither Fidelity® Climate Action Fund nor Fidelity® Healthy Future Fund include XOM. Both funds are underperforming the S&P500. XOM is up 7% (1Y period).
Another example - Tesla. Does Tesla belong in an ESG fund? It certainly is leader in the "E"nvironmental part, but many will argue its CEO now is going backwards on the "S"ocial part and the "G"overnance part also isn't looking good. If a pension fund skip TSLA on "S" and "G" grounds, is it right? TSLA is at +97% YTD.
I do think there is a short-term vs long-term argument that can be made here, climate change is a huge long term risk. But it's dishonest to label concerns with ESG investing purely a political / conservative stance.
Keep in mind TSLA is severely off its all time high just 18 months ago. I admit I get a little tired of people saying sticks are up YTD when they’re still half their value from 2 years ago.
Daniel, nice googling.
A company having ESG goals is Apples.
Oranges is a pension fund or any investment fund with a contractual mandate to protect and maximize that investment's return (as the pilot's union has), or a Fiduciary at any investment fund prioritizing ESG rated companies to invest in, violates the definition of a Fiduciary and the contract this pilot's union has made with him.
I believe that he is correct! Social issues do not qualify as financially sound investments. The fiduciary responsibility is to make the most money possible in an honest, safe manner.
If fiduciaries' only role is to maximize returns to the extent legally possible, why should they do so "honestly"? If they could find a legal loophole to fund the Sinaloa cartel, must they? If they knew about OxyContin addiction in the '90s but determined they could safely invest in Purdue without ever being held accountable, would they have a duty to do so? Assume, for the sake of the thought experiment, that both investments would...
If fiduciaries' only role is to maximize returns to the extent legally possible, why should they do so "honestly"? If they could find a legal loophole to fund the Sinaloa cartel, must they? If they knew about OxyContin addiction in the '90s but determined they could safely invest in Purdue without ever being held accountable, would they have a duty to do so? Assume, for the sake of the thought experiment, that both investments would prove windfalls.
ESG is not just about "social" investments, which is an amorphous term. ESG is a concept that mean as little as, "This investment isn't contemptible." And saying that fiduciaries should invest "honestly" sounds a lot like supporting ESG (in this case, the "social" and/or "governance" elements) without using the term.
This is ridiculous. I agree with one of the comments suggesting this is a stalking horse for some other agenda. What if the pension administrators decided to avoid investments in Russia or countries that e slaves people. It is perfectly legal for these funds to have broad investment goals.
Good for this pilot!! Unfortunately to many people that are politically towards the right are afraid of publicly stating their opinions due to wokeness and the PC mob that will try and destroy them thru either getting them fired or using violence thru their so called peaceful protests,double standards have existed for a long time and get worse daily ,I truly fear for my children and grandchildren's future!!!!
@Michael C
Political views should be kept outside of the office. That is the ideal efficient corporate culture .
Is anyone forcing his hand to stay employed by at a private company?
Sir, dumping a grab bag of Foxish buzzwords together while claiming to be silenced is telling.
Seems you are the pot calling the kettle black. GOP legislatures pushing agendas to silence citizens who disagree with them, infringe on marginalized communities’ rights, ban books, deter self expression and overtake school districts (state of Texas taking over Houston ISD) are extreme overreach. If anyone is under attack it’s everyone but the GOP.
Limitations on investing only in funds cited in article are wrong. Employees have a right to the best return. The comment from a previous post about the pilot and anti vaxxing should do some research.
He sounds like a very over entitled person who's had everything handed to him I bet he didn't pay for his flying lessons to fly the F-16 and he used that information to fly the other airplanes for the American airlines so he's double dipping maybe he should pay that back to the tax payers
What a silly response. You should pay back for work experience? I take it that you don't care how your hard earned money is invested?
Key to the comment is your tax dollars paying the $$$$$$$$ millions to train Spence in the military to which he double dips from while making a healthy income flying with A/A. Yet he wines about a well managed pension fund because he thinks its a left-wing (sic) political slush fund, apparently. Note: Spence also is paid generously as a Air Force Reserve F-16 trainer and again he is paid with your tax dollars. Get the irony within his spew?
I am quite sure that this pilot did pay for his flying lessons - minimum six years of service at very low pay not to mention his hard and hazardous work learning how to do the job.
Only someone that never served in the military could call a retired military person who served our country and has a career after his retirement an “an entitled person who’s had everything handed to him, “ and a “double dipper.”
This man served our country and earned your/our respect along with his military pension and his pension for WORKING for the airlines. Two jobs gets two pensions if you meet the criteria and no...
Only someone that never served in the military could call a retired military person who served our country and has a career after his retirement an “an entitled person who’s had everything handed to him, “ and a “double dipper.”
This man served our country and earned your/our respect along with his military pension and his pension for WORKING for the airlines. Two jobs gets two pensions if you meet the criteria and no one in the military ever has anything handed to them, ever, that is why it is called serving. The military ensures your freedom of speech. Your freedom for blatant disrespect towards those that make it possible for you to say something so stupid.
How did you come to your conclusion that he is "entitled" ? Pretty silly ASSumption on your part.
He's definitely not wrong. ESG investments have underperformed the overall market since forever. That's why there are so many lawsuits by State AGs and Treasurers against asset managers who are deploying pensions into poorly-returning ESG funds. Companies seeking high CEI scores (ABInBev, Target, etc.) are also seeing their stock price get hammered.
And look at all the bots showing up here. 7 or 8 likes for all of posts that insult the pilot who...
He's definitely not wrong. ESG investments have underperformed the overall market since forever. That's why there are so many lawsuits by State AGs and Treasurers against asset managers who are deploying pensions into poorly-returning ESG funds. Companies seeking high CEI scores (ABInBev, Target, etc.) are also seeing their stock price get hammered.
And look at all the bots showing up here. 7 or 8 likes for all of posts that insult the pilot who is standing up for himself and his pension.
Do Marxist psychopaths play our points game? Or were they pointed here from Twitter? I'm guessing the latter.
Truth is, Pilots and Crews paid a large price for the events of the last several years. Next time your flight is delayed, next time your bags take 45 mins to hit the belt, next time you see someone get drunk and fight on a plane, thank one of these unhinged social(ist) justice (keyboard) warriors. Thank them too for lowered hiring standards across the entire hospitality sector.
We've all already lost so much. Don't make the innocent and justifiably aggrieved pilots pay another price after they've safely gotten you to your destination for 30 years.
ESG IS THE MARKET. 99% of all US companies report some ESG data to the IFAC for their yearly report. Companies with ESG goals can't underperform the market, because THEY ARE THE MARKET. Statistically, only 5 companies in the S&P 500 DONT have any ESG data to report. If you really think 5 companies are holding up the entire S&P 500, then you have serious brain damage.
Money is money
An investment should be chosen because of its performance prospectus
DIG DEEPER as someone elsa says above and you’ll find that those who call the shots at the funds have indeed political agendas and
connections (and respective returns from those) that justify their decisions over the interest of the stakeholding prospective pensioners
But maybe that happens at every pension fund
We all pray for sound investments of all pension plans and financial planners uphold their fiduciary responsibilities. Our federal government has padded a few pension funds with our tax monies that is unacceptable and we can no longer afford to bail out poor management and social justice issues. We sell ourselves out and our fellow americans when we stay silent and allow these issues to become common practice.
@Lewis Carroll Tell me you know nothing about investing and public companies without telling me you know nothing about investing and public companies. At this point almost every publicly traded company in the US does some form of ESG reporting and I doubt the random few that don't are outperforming 99% of the market (and if they are its likely for other reasons besides ESG). Just like with CRT, they have brainwashed you to hate...
@Lewis Carroll Tell me you know nothing about investing and public companies without telling me you know nothing about investing and public companies. At this point almost every publicly traded company in the US does some form of ESG reporting and I doubt the random few that don't are outperforming 99% of the market (and if they are its likely for other reasons besides ESG). Just like with CRT, they have brainwashed you to hate an acronym just to make you angry. The "ESG" that anti-woke charlatans like DeSantis rail against has nothing to do with how ESG considerations work in real life.
What FINRA licenses do YOU hold? He's more correct than you are. Doing ESG reporting does not mean a company is included in ESG investment funds. You really need to work on your depth of knowledge here. Reporting ESG factors =/= ESG investing. ESG investing selects for a relatively small (arbitrary, manager-determined) select pool of stocks that are from companies seen as "good" in their ESG performance. Companies like Exxon of BP will not be...
What FINRA licenses do YOU hold? He's more correct than you are. Doing ESG reporting does not mean a company is included in ESG investment funds. You really need to work on your depth of knowledge here. Reporting ESG factors =/= ESG investing. ESG investing selects for a relatively small (arbitrary, manager-determined) select pool of stocks that are from companies seen as "good" in their ESG performance. Companies like Exxon of BP will not be included regardless of how hard they try to report ESG and DEI initiatives. Companies like Apple will be included in spite of their issues with human rights and dependency on rare-earth metals (which are strip-mined in other countries, terrible for the environment) in their supply chain.
Oh puleeeez don't make me fly with that guy. Oof.
I'll bet he accuses the flight attendants of spitting on his meal too. TIME For HIM TO RETIRE.
Marxist psychopaths? Unhinged socialist keyboard warriors?
What the hell meds are you on, Gomer?
Where's the woke police when you need them. Someone call kid rock.
Better be careful. They might just do away with the pension plan all together and give you your portion now. Then you may invest it as you see fit.
He's not wrong...
Basically anything you don't like is woke you don't like gay people that's fine but they're going to be here they're not going away nothing's going to change if you don't like it go somewhere else that's your choice you live in America you have freedom of choice so use it
Lol, all the guy said is he's not wrong and you come back with this multi sentence accusatory statement basically saying the poster is pushing for genocide. You need serious help my friend.
Krystalcane,
You misunderstand the pushback on wokeness. Hell I’m gay and I’m sick of all this wokery, it’s exhausting!
Perhaps what exhausts you is the "right's" perpetual labelling as woke everything that doesn't seem to benefit the entitled GOP directly.
Message to light bird Spence: If you just quit your boycotting of everything you don't understand or fear, life would be better for all of us.
Lol, it he was up 10% or more on those investments, suddenly his outrage would disappear.
This guy needs to get a life,
The issue is that ESG investments can't be up "10%" or more when compared to alternatives. That's because they are designed to focus not on performance, but instead to focus on racial quotas and things like that. The logic used by these funds is fallacious, and they are racist by their very nature. Anyone who supports them is therefore racist by proxy.
I can understand why people would be angry being forced to support racism...
The issue is that ESG investments can't be up "10%" or more when compared to alternatives. That's because they are designed to focus not on performance, but instead to focus on racial quotas and things like that. The logic used by these funds is fallacious, and they are racist by their very nature. Anyone who supports them is therefore racist by proxy.
I can understand why people would be angry being forced to support racism with their dollars, especially when that support is also costing them money long term. There's no upside and all downside, so ESG should be eliminated.
Of course it would disappear, his entire argument is that the investments are underperforming due to woke-ness. If the investments are not underperforming, well…
$26 billion in assets is not a large amount for an investment fund. Everyone has taken a hit from the stock market over the past 6-18 months. There is legal grounds if any securities violations have occurred. However , the fundamentals of any re investments are erroneous.
Happy gay pride month OMAAT community.
It took a little digging. The suit really wasn't filed by Pilot Spence but by the law firm of Hacker/Stephens located, naturally, in Texas. Unfortunately the firm's website doesn't list other clients but with a little digging it would be possible to find out who else this boutique has represented.
https://www.hackerstephens.com/#services
Another right wing cry baby.
Go invest in companies only Jesus would. Maybe there's a fascist friendly EFT.
Commercial pilots can be such lunatics.
My guess is that this gets dismissed for lack of standing.
It is perfectly o.k. for right wing contributing big business can to do the very same thing but to a much greater extent. What a bunch of fear mongering cry babies. Really.
T-, you are missing the point of the suit. The plaintiff is not arguing that companies should not allowed to pursue political goals. He argues that his employer should not be investing his pension money into companies that pursue political aims at the expense of financial returns. Which is the whole point of investing pension funds.
Granted, the plaintiff weakens his own case by specifying that there is only one political slant that he objects to.
If it wasn’t for the “leftist” he wouldn’t have a pension.
Right on!
He's an anti-vaxxer too - shocker. The only thing scarier is that this litigious fool is piloting planes that we are on as passengers.
The military has been forcing people to take shots since forever. Only now are right wing snowflakes claiming religious BS.
Hmmm, sounds like you're the extremist actually using the anti vax rhetoric. I didn't realize shaming people for not taking the BS vaccination was still a thing. Sad for you people
It's simple really... if you don't like the things your employer stands for you probably need to find a new employer. Nobody can force you to stay.
@Daniel, the only "idiots" I see here are those offering advice that do not know how pension plans work, and in particular those at most airlines. Pilots entire carriers are based on on seniority/hire date. To expect a pilot with many years of seniority to leave then start at the bottom for another airline is insane.
Couldn't he should just shoot at an airplane like the anti-Bud Light gang
Big case. Important case, this is not some fly by night case.
AA and the plaintiff will be well funded by special interest groups here and there are billions of dollars at stake.
Fire him for harming the brand. His lawsuit and subsequent cost is lowering the stock price. Cam I sue him for my losses? Simple solutions to simple problems created by simpletons.
You are a special kind of, well.....
Being an AA investor shows just how poor your investment acumen is. Plus, you get a choice, you dillweed
I suggest the company not only fire him. They need to counter sue. The cost in PR should be recouped. As a AA advantage card member and frequent flyer, I now have a deeply held belief that I cannot fly American Airlines. Just as there are employees of companies that have employees that intentionally damage company property. I now believe this employee will intentionally damage an aircraft. I must refrain from flying AA until the...
I suggest the company not only fire him. They need to counter sue. The cost in PR should be recouped. As a AA advantage card member and frequent flyer, I now have a deeply held belief that I cannot fly American Airlines. Just as there are employees of companies that have employees that intentionally damage company property. I now believe this employee will intentionally damage an aircraft. I must refrain from flying AA until the company renders the rick of a potentially unsafe pilot back to an acceptable level.
This information should be enough for the company to get rid of the crazy.
Cordially,
The Public
@AA investor
Brand image is important nowadays. This matter should be brought up at the next shareholder meeting.
After target and bud light I would be concerned too. The pendulum may be beginning to sway in the other direction. That being said, this is super funny as he works for a union while being otherwise conservative.
Also, woke is woke not “woke”. It’s a real word used and doesn’t require quotations, but of course you’re trying to make this guy seem crazy.
In this context, it's "woke."
It was just woke when Black and African American folks used the term to describe individuals and behaviors that stayed vigilant to racism and discrimination - actions and systems that threaten their well being in America. Telling someone to stay woke wasn't anything other than encouraging them to be alert to survive, and then it got co-opted by white folks on the Right in order to further their culture...
In this context, it's "woke."
It was just woke when Black and African American folks used the term to describe individuals and behaviors that stayed vigilant to racism and discrimination - actions and systems that threaten their well being in America. Telling someone to stay woke wasn't anything other than encouraging them to be alert to survive, and then it got co-opted by white folks on the Right in order to further their culture war against anything that doesn't champion a white, straight Christian nationalist perspective. In fact, the Right's co-opting of the term is a perfect example of white supremacy in action :).
But don't let this history get in your way of continuing to spew your drivel here - we know you don't like history to begin with over there on the Right.
Thanks for putting me in a box but I’m an independent and very left on many issues. I like to analyze both sides and make up my own decisions, unlike most people that have a religious-like faith to their party.
I’m not sure what you mean exactly by “survival”, but people are most at risk of violent crimes to include murder from their own race. To think another race is the biggest danger to yourself...
Thanks for putting me in a box but I’m an independent and very left on many issues. I like to analyze both sides and make up my own decisions, unlike most people that have a religious-like faith to their party.
I’m not sure what you mean exactly by “survival”, but people are most at risk of violent crimes to include murder from their own race. To think another race is the biggest danger to yourself is categorically false, and racist. I would highly suggest researching intraracial and interracial crime stats.
@Sel I'm pretty that's not what he meant by "survival." Anyway I guess because you didn't address his main point it means you agree that your original comment was misguided, which is good because it very much was.
I have a family member that’s an AA pilot, also right wing, though not this much, and he loves his union.
Regardless of what you think about ESG investing... The #1 rule of investing is that PAST PERFORMANCE DOESN'T GUARANTEE FUTURE PERFORMANCE.
This pilot is an idiot. If he want's different options, he can work for a different airline. Do I get to sue my employer because they don't have the investment vehicles that I want? No.
"Do I get to sue my employer because they don't have the investment vehicles that I want? No.
You certainly can sue if they're not behaving in a manner that upholds their fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder returns. If they're not considering companies on that basis, violation of that duty.
Daniel, you either don't know the legal meaning of "fiduciary responsibility", or choose to be obtuse.
ESG is an attempt to dilute and ultimately delete the term "fiduciary" and what that entails.
The pilot is not an IDIOT as you say, he's trying to ensure that the contractual language of his company's retirement fund follows the contract.
My father was a CPA, former VP of IL CPA Society, and spent over a decade...
Daniel, you either don't know the legal meaning of "fiduciary responsibility", or choose to be obtuse.
ESG is an attempt to dilute and ultimately delete the term "fiduciary" and what that entails.
The pilot is not an IDIOT as you say, he's trying to ensure that the contractual language of his company's retirement fund follows the contract.
My father was a CPA, former VP of IL CPA Society, and spent over a decade investing the private health fund of a Chicago Electrician's union, so that they had the funds to pay out ther self-funded health insurance. His number one rule of investing is never invest with anyone other than a Fiduciary.
ESG is a red herring for diluting and eventually deleting Fiduciary responsibility, so liberal leaning unions and governments can pick and choose who gets invested in solely based on their whims, and not to the benefit of the persons paying into their own, or receiving union negotiated retirement benefits.
The fund is a trust with a duty to only pecuniary factors in investment decisions. If you want to invest outside of a pension fund that’s fine and you have a lot more choices to drive whatever goals you want. Inside the fund the rules are different. These regulations came out of failed pension funds in the past that led the federal government’s involvement. The industry is heavily regulated and the administration is looking the other way.
Dig deeper and I’m sure you’ll find that this guy is nothing but a stalking horse for a secretive, well-funded organization advancing an anti-LGBTQ agenda.
a quick google of his name brings up some articles that tell you all you need to know about this guy.
Ad hominem. By all means attack the argument, but not the person.
for the past 20 years activist groups have been lobbying for a one sided view of what it means to be "inclusive". theyve implimented their agenda with the claim theyre pro-lgb. no one countered their claims becuase no one wanted to be seen as homophobic. the problem is gender ideology is actually the most homophobic thing of all time. its beliefs include denial that biological sex is real. instead they believe that whats important is...
for the past 20 years activist groups have been lobbying for a one sided view of what it means to be "inclusive". theyve implimented their agenda with the claim theyre pro-lgb. no one countered their claims becuase no one wanted to be seen as homophobic. the problem is gender ideology is actually the most homophobic thing of all time. its beliefs include denial that biological sex is real. instead they believe that whats important is imaginary "gender". this idea basically erases LGB people as a class because, per gender ideology, same sex attraction doesnt exist. also, people pushing gender ideology harm gay/gnc ppl by promoting gender affirming care (harmful meds) to address normal pysch issues most grow out of. these meds cause permanent loss of sexual function and many other life long medical problems. UK and Euro gov reviews found this "care" harms kids and doesnt help anything. claims to the contrary are nothing more than a false ad campaign. claims that gender care helps dysphoric ppl are homophobic and exclude gay/gnc ppl from experiencing normal puberty. this is just one group excluded by the gender ideology polcies. womem, kids, gays. parents and dysphoric ppl are all groups whose rights are trampled on by the mens rights group promoting gender ideology.
Activists promoting gender ideology hate it when people point out what a fraud it is. they prefer they be allowed to carry on their homophobic and misogynist policies without people noticing. probably everything ive writen is new to you. but, if you check, you will see that every gender biz stat and claim is a lie.
I agree with him 100%. I want my company plan to make as much money for me as possible, not be invested in some half-assed wind farm to make a lefty feel good about themselves. If the concept were profitable then we wouldn't need a law to sustain it which the current inhabitant of 1600 supports.
You could always put your own money where your mouth and ideology are, rather than relying on others to fund your ignorant, Fox News-fed beliefs. Just sayin…
The irony of you people that always have some retort about "fox news". Get a hint, mathillterate, fox viewership makes up less than 1% of the population.
My dear lefty friend, the only ideology I have is money. I do not support causes.
If you think your employer is not doing as well as they could be, then take a lump distribution and manage your own investments. I understand crypto can produce great results.
Why does Texas have more windfarms than the rest of the country. Must be because they like the free winds provided by God, or maybe the money they get paid.
You could just go work somewhere else too if you don't like what the private company you're working for is doing.
The big picture here is pretty incredible. The complainant is receiving TWO ‘legacy’ pensions (military & AA). These are not defined contribution plans like a 401k where he’d be responsible for contributing his own money into his retirement. Rather, he’s getting the benefit of two retirements where the financial burden is either all or mostly on the employer. He’s the worst of the “I got mine - everyone else can piss off” crowd, because he...
The big picture here is pretty incredible. The complainant is receiving TWO ‘legacy’ pensions (military & AA). These are not defined contribution plans like a 401k where he’d be responsible for contributing his own money into his retirement. Rather, he’s getting the benefit of two retirements where the financial burden is either all or mostly on the employer. He’s the worst of the “I got mine - everyone else can piss off” crowd, because he gets all this money given to him, yet it’s not enough. The irony is so thick, because it’s really this guy’s sense of entitlement that’s leftist.
Tell us you don't know who Gordon Gekko is without telling us, now.
So your point is that he doesn't deserve his pension? That the pension fund manager doesn't have a fiduciary duty? The pensions were part of an agreement between the airline, the union, and its members. He probably had to give something up to get what he got. And what he got was deserved and bargained for. He is now rightfully arguing and...
Tell us you don't know who Gordon Gekko is without telling us, now.
So your point is that he doesn't deserve his pension? That the pension fund manager doesn't have a fiduciary duty? The pensions were part of an agreement between the airline, the union, and its members. He probably had to give something up to get what he got. And what he got was deserved and bargained for. He is now rightfully arguing and litigating for his and many others' futures.
And people wonder why it's so hard to get more pilots qualified and flying big jets.
My point was that he’s already lucky enough to be getting payments from not just one but two defined benefit plans, yet he’s crying about how the funds are invested. If the funds don’t perform as needed, the company would need to kick in the difference to make him whole. But he’s so entitled that he doesn’t see that (and clearly neither do you).
Josh, bootlickers like you are why the middle class is in the sad state it's in.
ESG is a scam. There are no hard requirements for what ESG means.
Apple is in most ESG funds even through they have suppliers who install suicide nets in their China plants.
Energy companies are excluded from ESG funds even though they may be pumping billions of dollars in renewable energy technologies.
ESG funds have lower performance, higher fees, and a greater standard deviation than normal index funds.
The great irony is that if you...
ESG is a scam. There are no hard requirements for what ESG means.
Apple is in most ESG funds even through they have suppliers who install suicide nets in their China plants.
Energy companies are excluded from ESG funds even though they may be pumping billions of dollars in renewable energy technologies.
ESG funds have lower performance, higher fees, and a greater standard deviation than normal index funds.
The great irony is that if you want to "change the world", the best way is to invest in a "bad" company-then lobby the board to change its policies.
ESG is a rating that isn't standardised. An ESG fund means it's a fund that has a rating, not necessarily a good one. BP, Total, Shell all have ESG ratings and for that matter, it can a good one due to the amount of investments they do in sustainable energies.
82.8% of sustainable funds contain at least some exposure to companies producing fossil fuels.
ERISA is a big problem for ESG in pension funds and is not an "extreme" position, as you said, to argue these funds also violate section 13F. That doesn't mean he can win this but it's a tenable case.
Yawn, Must be slow news day ,
This is all for mainly generating comments
It worked congratulations on 200 comments
I mainly read this blog post for actual personal reviews of Flights & Hotels but I guess those trip reports don’t pay the bills
So that’s why there are these type blog posts
Or some people call it click baits
Never trust anyone who says the other side is pursuing "nakedly ideological goals" while trying to frame their own ideology as a neutral baseline.