Update: It’s now confirmed that this Lion Air plane with 188 people on board has crashed, and all passengers are presumed dead. Awful…
This is an awful start to the week. It’s being reported that Lion Air Indonesia flight 610 has gone missing. The flight was scheduled to operate from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang on Monday morning. It departed at 6:21AM local time, and was due to land at 7:30AM, though never made it.
We're following reports that contact has been lost with Lion Air flight #JT610 shortly after takeoff from Jakarta.
ADS-B data from the flight is available at https://t.co/zNM33cM0na pic.twitter.com/NIU7iuCcFu
— Flightradar24 (@flightradar24) October 29, 2018
This flight was operated by a new Boeing 737 MAX 8, which was just delivered to the airline in August of this year (the plane had the registration code PK-LQP). This is Boeing’s latest generation 737, and it also represents the first major accident involving a 737 MAX.
Lion Air is a low cost carrier that operates a fleet of over 100 Boeing 737 aircraft, though as of now fewer than a dozen of them are the MAX variety. Malindo Air, which is a subsidiary of Lion Air, was actually the launch customer for the aircraft.
While the plane had the capacity to seat 189 people, we don’t yet know how many people were on the flight, though I’m sure we’ll find out soon.
Lion Air has had a fair number of safety incidents over the years. Some may remember the Lion Air 737 that crashed on approach to Bali in April 2013. Amazingly enough all passengers were able to evacuate during that incident.
My thoughts are with those onboard, as well as their family and friends.
@Will get that shit out of here, it has nothing to do with the article, and specially not politics.
@Will First of all, what you say about Brazil's new president-elect is completely false and absurd. Second, what does that have to do with this article? Are you just trying to stir up drama?
Brazil is FINALLY heading the right direction. With this election we have taken the power away from the PT party, the worst, most corrupt and disgusting political power to govern Brazil for such a long time, which has led to our...
@Will First of all, what you say about Brazil's new president-elect is completely false and absurd. Second, what does that have to do with this article? Are you just trying to stir up drama?
Brazil is FINALLY heading the right direction. With this election we have taken the power away from the PT party, the worst, most corrupt and disgusting political power to govern Brazil for such a long time, which has led to our recession & bad economy, but now the people have spoken. We are tired of all the crime and corruption, and now we finally have some hope. So don't talk about stuff you dont understand.
@Octavio— re Brazil, let’s all pray you’re right
What a tragedy! Indonesia people has been suffering a lot lately with accidents. Sad.
@ will: as a brazilian I must say our country is very proud because we have removed from Brasilia ( our capital) the most corrupt government this country ever had. You have ZERO idea what you are saying here. Now Brazil got back on track.
But let´s go back to the topic.
@Nikki
Read follow up comment on #SeattleRocks post.
Where is the statistics? what crashes are we talking about? what increase? from what years???
Guys, please educate your self and get the facts validated before making such claims. SC only manufactures 787 models and no 787 ever crashed anywhere. And all recent Boeing crashes... as far as I can tell... not a single one was attributed to any manufacturing defect... even ones made up here......
@Nikki
Read follow up comment on #SeattleRocks post.
Where is the statistics? what crashes are we talking about? what increase? from what years???
Guys, please educate your self and get the facts validated before making such claims. SC only manufactures 787 models and no 787 ever crashed anywhere. And all recent Boeing crashes... as far as I can tell... not a single one was attributed to any manufacturing defect... even ones made up here... Everett (747, 767, 777, 787) or Renton (737)
@SeattleRocks, I have noticed that as well. Shameful that Boeing cares more about a few dollars than human lives.
There are a lot of routes that are only flown by Lion Air and since Lion Air group holds over half the market share in Indonesia it would be extremely difficult to eliminate them. I've had to fly withthem a few times mostly because they're the only one available or they're the only onethat provides the flightat the time I want.
Please keep the people om board in your prayers. This is personal as I have a friend on board.
@Donna i doubt it... but im 100% sure Boeing will assist. if it happens to be a manufacturer defect, they need to know asap.
Took a flight with them a few weeks ago, although a very short one from Bali to Lombok. And the reason why I only booked that one with them out of 12 flights was my lack of confidence in the company. Sad.
I hope the NTSB assists with the Indonesian authorities in the investigation of this tragic crash and that the truth emerges.
@Seattlerock you’re an idiot with baseless claims they only manufacture the 787 in South Carolina.
Have you noticed the number of Boeing planes crashing have gone up since they moved manufacturing from Seattle to South Carolina in the Bible belt. God will not save you if you take a shortcut in welding a bolt or doing a QA check because you had a fundraiser to attend.
This was a new plane. So most probably a manufacturing defects. Manufacturing defects either show up in the first 10% of life or after 80% of life of a product. This is going to be bad for 737 Max sales.
I personally would not take a flight on a 737 Max till this investigation is over.
The BBC is reporting that there were 189 on board, not 188 as given above
178 adult passengers
1 child
2 babies
6 flight crew
2 pilots
Lion Air again. I'm sorry, but I have lost any trust, I had in that airline, years ago. This is the second time I'm aware of, that a brand-new plane of Lionair crashes. The first incident involving a new plane was at DPS in 2013 (That plane had been delivered 2 months prior to crashing).
This is why i tell my family not to fly Lion Air, they offer the cheapest fare but for a reason. It's not a matter of if, but when. Also it's not about how new the aircraft is, it's about how competent the crew manage emergencies, follow protocols, checklist, CRM, ORM, etc.
Here's an inside look of how fucked up Lion air is. 4-5 years ago, P2F (Pay-to-fly) schemes were rampant in Indonesia. Guess who's...
This is why i tell my family not to fly Lion Air, they offer the cheapest fare but for a reason. It's not a matter of if, but when. Also it's not about how new the aircraft is, it's about how competent the crew manage emergencies, follow protocols, checklist, CRM, ORM, etc.
Here's an inside look of how fucked up Lion air is. 4-5 years ago, P2F (Pay-to-fly) schemes were rampant in Indonesia. Guess who's the pioneer over there? that's right... Lion air. So back then they had hordes of Indian pilots with wet CPL paying $20-$25K just to be an FO, and these guys suck... like bad.
2013 Bali crash, guess who was the PF? Yep...one of these indian P2F guys. Read the NTSB report and you'll find that as soon as the autopilot disengaged at FAP, he couldn't hand fly the aircraft for shit. Sinkrate hovering around 1000 fpm, tracking well below the glideslope, busted through MDA with no runway in sight, pretty much classic unstable approach... instead of going around, they kept on trucking...and splashed short of the runway. Turns out, this Indian pilot have never experienced flying in IMC...WTFFFFFFFF !!!!
Fast forward to 2018, these guys who haven't crashed (yet) are now at about 5-6000 hrs flying. And guess who's the Captain of JT 610 that crashed? You guessed it... came from the same group of motherfuckers who payed their way in to be an FO through pay-to-fly schemes.
So what about the local Indonesian pilots you ask? Lion air pilots the lowest paid among all other carriers. Can't afford flight school on your own? no problem, they have their own flight school and will pay for it... in exchange for 15 years of servitude. That's right, 15 friggin years.
You like flying 4-5 legs, 6 days a week? tired and overstressed? no problem...they have meth for that. Yes, Many Lion air pilots got busted for using meth and other narcotics.
They keep saying safety first blah blah blah...but it's all a facade. That shit cost money.
So back to the crash. kind of similar with miracle on the Hudson incident US Airways 1549, different endings though. Emergency situations at low altitude. Capt Sully and FO managed a survivable water landing, yet the Lion air guys slammed a 2-month old jet at high speed into the ocean (based on the condition of debris and ADSB tracking).
How's that CRM working out during emergencies? Indian Capt speaking English to Indonesian FO and vice versa? English is the language of aviation. Have you heard on the radio how horrible these guys speak English? let alone in the cockpit managing emergencies...ppfffttt.
So you have an inexperienced Indian Captain who paid his way into the cockpit, flying with an Indonesian FO who is also inexperienced and overstressed, trying to manage emergencies at low altitude, WHILE speaking English as a second language? what do you expect? miracle on the Hudson?... HA!
With all the redundancies and backup systems on Airbus and Boeing jets, let me assure you, this is not mechanical or flight control issues.
90% of crashes are caused by pilot errors through a chain of events that culminates into a fatal event. Lion air is a fucked up outfit, that's why I don't fly them, so should you.
So yeah, long rant. I need to get it off my system.
P.S. local pilot rumors and hearsay indicate the cause of crash is unreliable airspeed and UA (unusual Attitude), and if a "pilot" can't recover from UA...then yeah, they deserve to die.
@ david hartono, I am with you and whole Indonesia in this painful moment. As an expat living in Jakarta for more than 5 years, I have too much respect for your country and its people.
And I agree with you that aviation safety has amazingly improved here.
And in this particular case, with a brand new Max 8.
It is clear that the pilot had asked to return to CGK and as I...
@ david hartono, I am with you and whole Indonesia in this painful moment. As an expat living in Jakarta for more than 5 years, I have too much respect for your country and its people.
And I agree with you that aviation safety has amazingly improved here.
And in this particular case, with a brand new Max 8.
It is clear that the pilot had asked to return to CGK and as I was watching in the news, it seems that the plane had already had some issues on the previous flight it had done, from DPS to CGK.
@ Lucky, I hope people do not write bullshit on this and simply respect the families of the victims.
My thoughts with the families and with you, Indonesia!
This is just terrible news.
But from what I heard on some sources, the 737 MAX actually had a flaw that may contribute to the crash, but I can't really say the least.
Its sad for a fact PK-LQP was just delivered August ago. What a way to go...
Condolences goes out to those affected.
Wx good or bad at time. Did captain fly into mature storm?
Im indonesian, im shocked because our aviation safety has improve in recent years.. especially with a brand new jet like a 737 Max... I've heard from an indonesian news source that the pilot reported flight controls problem.. i hope this issue will not affect all 737 max..
Catastrophic hull failure. Only three months old
Lucky maybe update the title now, this is not another MH370..
https://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724&opt=0
Could this be one of those forgot flaps incidents?
@No Name
Totally Agree
This might sound harsh.
But from what I have read over on PPRUNE in past, Lion Air was a disaster waiting to happen.
Also @Lucky, did you see what Brazil just voted for? Basically a total dictatorship and Anti-gay stuff.
Crashed in the ocean, it is estimated all 188 people died. Horrific, I was just in Asia for Philippine Airlines inaugural flight from MNL-JFK and it scares me that this just happened on such a new aircraft.
Apologies to the families.
Yup, not missing, they know it crashed into the ocean, not far from Jakarta...
I was not on the flight. In case anyone was worried.......
It has been confirmed that it crashed and there were 188 on board. So sad.
So sorry.... this could happen to any of us. Looking at the flight data, it seems plane struggled to gain speed and altitude right after the take off... it fact it actually lost some altitude briefly about a minute since the take off, gained a little but for whole 10 min or so it never gained more than 5300 ft when in fact it should be in 20000 ft range at that time. ah so sad...
According to the BBC the flight was almost full will 178 adults, 1 infant, 2 babies, 2 pilots & 5 cabin crew. A total of 188 on board.
This is so sad.
That Wikipedia page says the plane crashed thirteen minutes out of Jakarta.
My condolences to the families.