While this is hardly breaking news, I think it’s worth addressing just how bad long haul Lufthansa business class award availability has become.
In this post:
The sad decline of Lufthansa business class awards
Historically, Lufthansa has been one of the best airlines when it comes to making long haul business class award seats available, including to members of partner airline frequent flyer programs. This was great for anyone who had miles with a Star Alliance program.
While Lufthansa business class isn’t much to get excited about (especially the old product), Lufthansa was great about releasing unsold business class seats as awards at the last minute. So if you wanted to cross the Atlantic on short notice, Lufthansa had you covered. For that matter, the airline also sometimes released space in advance.
I don’t think Lufthansa did this out of the kindness of its heart, but rather the airline has very big business class cabins on some jets, and there were often unsold seats.
Unfortunately this pattern seems to have reversed in recent times. For the past several weeks, there has been a huge decrease in the amount of Lufthansa business class awards that partner programs have access to.
This applies both far in advance and close to departure, but the change is most evident for last minute travel, where I’m now seeing wide open business class cabins with no award space.
Interestingly, Lufthansa is still releasing first class awards at the last minute. The airline isn’t releasing first class awards as often as in the past, but at this point you have better odds of scoring a Lufthansa first class seat close to departure, rather than a business class seat.
It’s anyone’s guess how this situation evolves over time, but the current state of availability isn’t good.
Partner award availability isn’t what it once was
While it remains to be seen if this change to Lufthansa business class award availability is permanent, it has to be acknowledged the extent to which airlines have started restricting partner award availability. Perhaps this is the single biggest indirect devaluation we’ve seen to many frequent flyer programs in recent years.
Lufthansa is hardly the first airline to go in this direction. For example, take a look at redeeming American AAdvantage miles. In theory, award redemption rates are great, and the airline has phenomenal partner airlines. The issue is how airlines are increasingly restricting award availability.
Cathay Pacific, Etihad Airways, and Qatar Airways, all largely restrict award space to members of their own frequent flyer programs, blocking them for members of partner frequent flyer programs. It definitely makes it harder to maximize mileage redemptions, and take advantage of sweet spots.
On the one hand, I can’t blame airlines for moving in this direction. So many airline loyalty programs have essentially become “consolidators” of premium cabin tickets on partner airlines, including by selling miles inexpensively. On the other hand, this increased trend undermines one of the main values of global alliances, which is reciprocity.
While the miles & points world is very different than in “the good old days,” it’s not necessarily all bad news. Premium cabin products are better than ever before, miles & points are easier to earn through credit cards and outright purchases, and transferable points currencies give you access to so many different airline programs.
Bottom line
Lufthansa seems to have cut a vast majority of business class award seats for those booking through partner airline frequent flyer programs. The airline used to be really consistent with award availability at the last minute, but that’s no longer the case. Quite to the contrary, I’m seeing wide open flights where the airline isn’t making any seats available.
At this point, first class is more readily available at the last minute than business class (and even that availability isn’t good). Unfortunately Lufthansa is hardly alone in moving in this direction, as more airlines continue to restrict partner award availability.
What’s your take on Lufthansa’s severely limited business class award availability?
Interesting. I have an upcoming biz class award trip for February that I booked originally in October and then reticketed in early December, using UA miles DEN-ZRH and MXP-DEN. When I originally booked it, LH was 88k, r/t, with a variety of routing options, while the cheapest options on UA metal were more than 300k. When I rebooked in December, UA flights were still stupid high, while LH had gone DOWN to 80k (which might...
Interesting. I have an upcoming biz class award trip for February that I booked originally in October and then reticketed in early December, using UA miles DEN-ZRH and MXP-DEN. When I originally booked it, LH was 88k, r/t, with a variety of routing options, while the cheapest options on UA metal were more than 300k. When I rebooked in December, UA flights were still stupid high, while LH had gone DOWN to 80k (which might be related to a status change for me).
I am, however, keeping an eye peeled for LH F availability just before departure (if LH don’t take the A340 off DEN-FRA).
Maybe I'm unlucky but good luck finding any redemptions with Virgin points on partner airlines. It seems to have been bad for years, especially Delta where I can neither find Transatlantic (used to be pretty thin on the ground anyway) or domestic. Equally trying to find any redemptions on ANA or KL/AF is nigh on impossible too. Surcharges on Virgin own metal were too high, though I guess have got better with the latest changes...
Maybe I'm unlucky but good luck finding any redemptions with Virgin points on partner airlines. It seems to have been bad for years, especially Delta where I can neither find Transatlantic (used to be pretty thin on the ground anyway) or domestic. Equally trying to find any redemptions on ANA or KL/AF is nigh on impossible too. Surcharges on Virgin own metal were too high, though I guess have got better with the latest changes but the dynamic pricing can now be through the roof instead.
Working in the award booking space, it has become very difficult to book clients into premium cabins at reasonable rates. Not only have award programs massively devalued (on average, the cost of awards we optimize has doubled since 2019) but availability is far less. This is largely across the board. I'm still able to arrange successful bookings to most locations, but it requires a great deal more flexibility from clients than in the past.
...Working in the award booking space, it has become very difficult to book clients into premium cabins at reasonable rates. Not only have award programs massively devalued (on average, the cost of awards we optimize has doubled since 2019) but availability is far less. This is largely across the board. I'm still able to arrange successful bookings to most locations, but it requires a great deal more flexibility from clients than in the past.
Some locations have become almost impossible to find reasonably priced availability. Japan, for example. Unless you're booking all the way out at the far end of the calendar, it's very difficult to find availability. However, these cabins are going out fully booked. Demand is high and people are actually shelling out the cash fares. I can do for at a high price on the US carriers, but you can expect to pay a minimum 175k each way, and the sky is the limit.
Other locations are constrained due to airlines preferring to fly a premium cabin out empty as opposed to giving any seats away to loyalty program members. Qantas flies half empty cabins to Brisbane regularly. Lufthansa is flying nearly empty business class cabins to multiple destinations. The US carriers are at least good at upgrading their own loyalty program members on their own metal, but many foreign carriers don't do that, and they also don't open award inventory.
The whole ecosystem has a crisis of credibility. I'm literally one of the best people in the world at booking awards and I struggle with this stuff. I have no idea how the average person gets any reasonable value out of their miles and points.
The cost of a regular cash paid ticket booked directly in business class or upgraded to business class using cash has dropped relative to the cost of using mileage tickets to fly in the same cabin on the same flights. For example, I can pretty routinely get $2500-4400 US-Europe-India-Europe-US business class tickets while the mileage ticket price for an inferior route/experience is so ridiculously expensive that it makes no sense to build up big airline...
The cost of a regular cash paid ticket booked directly in business class or upgraded to business class using cash has dropped relative to the cost of using mileage tickets to fly in the same cabin on the same flights. For example, I can pretty routinely get $2500-4400 US-Europe-India-Europe-US business class tickets while the mileage ticket price for an inferior route/experience is so ridiculously expensive that it makes no sense to build up big airline mile/point balances. And I can pretty routinely get sub-$2200 Europe-US-Europe business class tickets while the mileage ticket prices for a near comparable or much worse routing are crazy expensive.
And in economy class, the picture isn’t always that much better in regards to getting value out of airline miles/points. For example, BKK-Amsterdam in economy class using miles can sometimes be a much worse value than just buying a $260-450 cash ticket.
Become a LH SENator and you will get much better award availabilty at least on LH flights.
Not only it became hard to find an award bc ticket , but it became extremely expensive too. All members of Lufthansa group ( lufthansa,swiss, austrian. Brussels air etc..) on the past they were charging aprox 300 usd per ticket as airport fees !!! Now they charge over 1000 usd per seat. In other word as star alliance members they have to offer some seats but in reality they do not want it. This is the meaning of this
As a Senator for about a deacade, i can tell you that the Lufthansa poor policies on redeeming miles and vouchers, literally borders fraud by now.
And it's not just the partner airline program members that do not get availability. It is also deprived from their own Lufthansa senators and hons just as much. Been trying to secure award tickets from any of the LH group hubs in Europe to anywhere in Japan for more...
As a Senator for about a deacade, i can tell you that the Lufthansa poor policies on redeeming miles and vouchers, literally borders fraud by now.
And it's not just the partner airline program members that do not get availability. It is also deprived from their own Lufthansa senators and hons just as much. Been trying to secure award tickets from any of the LH group hubs in Europe to anywhere in Japan for more than a year. Nothing is ever offered, rather than directing you to the regular LH site to buy regular tickets and accumulate further useless miles.
This is even worse when it comes to their upgrade vouchers, so called. This is not the first year that mine expire although I have tried to redeem them, alas was refused since "the ticket was not eligible". I am talking about tickets that were bought from the Lufthansa website directly. Yeah?
Another pathetic issue that I came across recently, as I miserably failed to find an award ticked to Japan from Germany proper. When I choose MUC as a departer airport, it forces me to stop over in FRA. So I search from FRA, and yeap, makes me stop over in MUC. Sometimes offering me the train in between....
And even then, of course, none in Business Calss.
Eventually I had to take an option with Ethiopian via Addis. Btw, much better product anyways than the crapy Lufthansa one. What a disgrace.
The trick with LH is to call in. They have GREAT availability for HON/SEN. They open up award space all the time, LX F is only bookable via the hotline etc.
I have status with BA, LH, AF and UA. Let me tell you - LH has by far the best award availability… You just have to understand how M&M works. Many people simply don't.
No matter if it is flying to Japan during the cherry blossom season, BKK over NYE or LAX. I had no issues getting J or F awards.
I think it is a very American mindset to think it's bad having premium cabins going out half full. Lufthansa is doing a very good job economically not releasing too many premium seats last minute. It keeps the product value high and encourage folks to buy their tickets rather in advance (and not speculate on last minute mileage deals). For passengers needing to travel spontaneously, that's where high ticket can be achieved - it makes...
I think it is a very American mindset to think it's bad having premium cabins going out half full. Lufthansa is doing a very good job economically not releasing too many premium seats last minute. It keeps the product value high and encourage folks to buy their tickets rather in advance (and not speculate on last minute mileage deals). For passengers needing to travel spontaneously, that's where high ticket can be achieved - it makes sense for the airline not giving them award seats. It's the same, why European airlines do not offer free upgrades for elite members.
Also to consider: The amount of business class seats per aircraft will decrease with the introduction of Allegris cabin.
Plus LH aren't even able to provide a decent level of service to a full cabin, having a few seats go empty is probably better both for those who have to travel with them and the ones who are pushed to other (likely better) options.
Are you sure they’re not just trying to sell upgrades like delta does or that they’re having more oversell situations in the back?
This is an excellent move. I’m finding J availability through M&M on many trans-Atlantic routes for pretty much everyday day in the next 3 months. Good on LH for restricting partner availability and making more available to M&M members.
I am right now finding Lufthansa business class awards for March using point.me. I tried booking one for 11 March and Aeroplan said I could have it for 60K points, which means 50K UR points right now. This is nonstop from the east coast to Frankfurt.
I've come to the point that there is either incompetence with their yield management team OR their team is manipulating availability with partners to allow for better employee passes having space in premium cabins. I mean, Austrian has not had last minute space for half a year. And the cabins are going out half full in J. Something is seriously wrong.
I have found these issues as well. I started noticing it about 4 months ago.
As someone who's able to leave on very short notice I'm seeing extremely sparce Aeroplan availability to anywhere from ATL, unless I want to fly only on Air Canada, and most of the flight will be Mixed Class, with the majority of it in economy.
Doesn't matter where I want to go (lately it's been to TYO, BKK, SIN,...
I have found these issues as well. I started noticing it about 4 months ago.
As someone who's able to leave on very short notice I'm seeing extremely sparce Aeroplan availability to anywhere from ATL, unless I want to fly only on Air Canada, and most of the flight will be Mixed Class, with the majority of it in economy.
Doesn't matter where I want to go (lately it's been to TYO, BKK, SIN, et al) a good amount of released space, with reasonable redemption rates, have me flying a first leg in first (about 8% of the total flight) and the rest in economy.
Finding a direct EU flight has been non-existent.
It's been horrible. I got the LH card nine months ago to supplement a planned from SFO to CAI and return from CPT to SFO. More than enough miles to to to and from. But no availability. I have to use life miles on TK SFO-CAI (horrible seating). Using AA Miles on QR CAi-CPT (should be nice) Then using LH miles CPT-FRA and Lifemiles back to SFO on LH all in business. No availability in...
It's been horrible. I got the LH card nine months ago to supplement a planned from SFO to CAI and return from CPT to SFO. More than enough miles to to to and from. But no availability. I have to use life miles on TK SFO-CAI (horrible seating). Using AA Miles on QR CAi-CPT (should be nice) Then using LH miles CPT-FRA and Lifemiles back to SFO on LH all in business. No availability in F on LH using LH nor Lifemiles. Card cancelled. When this trip is over...No more LH for me but I'm still looking forward to my trip in March. 2-2 seating is simply horrible and any airline that uses it is poor planning. LH is #1 at this
Another good example of how much the Europeans dislike us.
Who is "us"?
And isn't it much more likely a business decision than one involving emotions? Different airlines have different approaches to revenue management, and while a UA flight hardly ever will take off with empty seats in a premium cabin, LH has handled this very different for a long time (which is why it's been so easy to book award seats).
I am seeing some concern from non US residents, I’m assuming European residents, about the points/miles situation here in the US. I definitely understand the frustration with the fact that miles are doled out here at an insane rate and that it is leading to devaluations and availability issues.
That being said, the cash cost of J fares exiting the US are significantly higher on a regular basis than cash prices exiting overseas countries,...
I am seeing some concern from non US residents, I’m assuming European residents, about the points/miles situation here in the US. I definitely understand the frustration with the fact that miles are doled out here at an insane rate and that it is leading to devaluations and availability issues.
That being said, the cash cost of J fares exiting the US are significantly higher on a regular basis than cash prices exiting overseas countries, Europe in particular. I’ve often wondered why this is the case and the only reasonable assumption I can come to is the market distortion caused on this side by all the points and miles redemptions.
I spend a lot of time in the EU and get there on both miles and cash. I do what I can to set up itineraries in reverse if it’s a cash fare. At times the same route is $1,000+ less on some routes if you exit the EU.
Is this just partner availability or are seats hard to find via M&M also ?
I noticed this as well. I was flying last minute from Germany to the US and both directions I had way better options in LH F class than in Business! It was weird, but hey, first class!
I am SO glad someone is finally calling this out, but Ben this is not a change from the last few weeks. They've greatly reduced partner availability since covid restrictions were lifted, I started noticing this as early as late 2022. Gone are the days of easily booking LH J, esp. from the West Coast.
Note it's not as bad for other LH group airlines. I just recently booked an LX ZRH-SFO J flight a...
I am SO glad someone is finally calling this out, but Ben this is not a change from the last few weeks. They've greatly reduced partner availability since covid restrictions were lifted, I started noticing this as early as late 2022. Gone are the days of easily booking LH J, esp. from the West Coast.
Note it's not as bad for other LH group airlines. I just recently booked an LX ZRH-SFO J flight a week in advance. OS and SN are also releasing last minute space. But this easily could spread to them.
Recently I tried to redeem miles on business and first class tickets: zero availability for first class ( any destination basically ) and very poor business class availability. I checked 12-11 months in advance.
Is it fair to say that Lufthansa is now letting the cabins go out empty? Or, are they just releasing award space at the very last minute?
I thought it was the latter because I'm still seeing pretty good last minute availability via Denver and SFO, but I also don't fly Lufthansa very often.
@GUWonder Oh you cannot. Long haul business class is minimum $4,000 RT and usually a lot more than that. Maybe a 1 leg east coast to european hub is that littie, but nothing with connections.
Occasionally via Amex you can get business roundtrip West Coast to Europe for 2k. But that's still a leap and jump from the 150k quoted by @GUWonder.
The bit about $4k is not true. Just saw some all-in sub-€2k business fares from the EU to BOG and back.
BOG is a different market than the US though.
Sue's comment is about LH long haul flights, which basically means everywhere other than Europe and Oceania.
Sue is unaware of the diversity of reality.
My November 2024 EU-US-EU business class trip on a legacy major airline was less than $1800, and I even got over $624 of that back due to a misconnect. ;) My October US-EU-India-EU-US business class trip was not even $4400 and I got back over $630 on that. My September US-GCC-India-GCC-US business class trip was less than $2400.
My November flown business class ticket originating in Sweden and taking me to the US and terminating in Sweden cost $1521.80 on Chase Travel. Flat bed seats on the TATL flights, and it earned me over 20k status miles plus. And I even got over $600 back due to a misconnect on it.
It would be nice to see a post talking about which airlines still release seats to their partners
Word.
This is a very good valuation of my M&M miles. We, the people across the pond never have such thing as million Chase Mileage Plus sign-up bonus. Whenever I needed transatlantic award in the past, it would have been consumed by MP already, leaving the scarcity even scarcer. Also, UA biz is almost non-availability (if, any) to many M&M members...
UA releases the same saver J availability to partners as its own members. The only differing availability is saver domestic economy awards, that has been greatly reduced for partners since last year.
UA almost always makes IN available first, which is UA Plat+ only.
Ultimately the whole miles/points industry if fed from the US for reasons already discussed (higher credit card transaction fees).
Ben talks about reciprocity but there is very little. US companies make a lot of cash with their loyalty programs but the value comes mostly from oversee carriers that have to ferry those low yield premium passengers.
In counter part no one on Miles and Mores or Avios is looking to redeem on premium...
Ultimately the whole miles/points industry if fed from the US for reasons already discussed (higher credit card transaction fees).
Ben talks about reciprocity but there is very little. US companies make a lot of cash with their loyalty programs but the value comes mostly from oversee carriers that have to ferry those low yield premium passengers.
In counter part no one on Miles and Mores or Avios is looking to redeem on premium cabins on United or Delta.
As the Miles and Point industry becomes "easier" due to the reasons Ben explained and premium cabins become more expensive, there is a stretching value gap for non-US carriers, that can't extract as much from this market as the US ones.
I think from the non-US carrier's perspective it's a no-brainer to squeeze award availability. For US card users, there are so many corporations trying to extract value from the credit card spends that it is unclear how the average actuaé value can be higher with miles than a direct cash back.
Just because something is happening in the air or in some unattractive overpriced suburbs (airports) we tend to assign enormous value to mundane things such as a 0.3 USD pod extracted in a 100 USD machine or a all you can eat buffet with seemingly free flow low par alcohol.
This is game theory guys. The value was good when "cheating the game" was a game played by a couple of happy few. Now that everyone think they can cheat the game everyone loses. And let's be honest a full business class cabin is not attractive to those who have paid market price for it.
The Luxury goods industry has also gone there and back with Gucci selling affordable luxury as card holders and belts. The only brands that continue to do well are those that never diluted their luxury, like Hermes and the others scrambling to try to be exclusive again.
I think luxury flying will see the same kind of clamp down if they want to keep their dollar spending customers. For the other customers, those who "pay" for business class at 80-90% discount using miles, well that's probably what premium economy was created for?
This is one of the best comments I've seen for a while, do +you+ have a blog?
It sums up a lot of my feelings about the miles and points game over the last few years. Watching the fawning over the 'espresso' being offered might have been what tipped me over the edge.
Being an Asia-based traveler, diligently saving up miles which are harder to get and increasingly harder to redeem (plus huge fees)...
This is one of the best comments I've seen for a while, do +you+ have a blog?
It sums up a lot of my feelings about the miles and points game over the last few years. Watching the fawning over the 'espresso' being offered might have been what tipped me over the edge.
Being an Asia-based traveler, diligently saving up miles which are harder to get and increasingly harder to redeem (plus huge fees) while watching US travelers pay five bucks to fly in premium cabins on 'my' airline (with points they got just from opening a card) suggests that these programs aren't really working in the interest of non-US airlines anymore.
I was with you until "it is unclear how the average actuaé value can be higher with miles than a direct cash back" then your comment went quickly downhill with the typical anti-point hyperbolic rhetoric.
Yes, the points/miles game is not as fun/lucrative as it used to be. But we are a long way from miles-cash back equivalency (unless you only use portals and never transfer points, I guess?). Just go for more boring yet...
I was with you until "it is unclear how the average actuaé value can be higher with miles than a direct cash back" then your comment went quickly downhill with the typical anti-point hyperbolic rhetoric.
Yes, the points/miles game is not as fun/lucrative as it used to be. But we are a long way from miles-cash back equivalency (unless you only use portals and never transfer points, I guess?). Just go for more boring yet consistent decent-yet-not-AMAZING redemption opportunities. There are many good examples of this, including Virgin redemptions, Air France saver, Japan Airlines via Finnair, short haul domestic US travel, etc etc etc.
Totally agree.
The game gets harder, but I'm still playing and winning the game.
@Redacted, my point is that outside the US point transfers basically don't exist. And don't get me started on airline credit cards.
This we non-US people basically get by miles through flying and "pay" the devaluations created by the massive inflation of the points market.
So for non-US airlines their loyalty systems don't really reward anymore the people that bring them business. So I understand that companies become more "protectionnist" and would rather...
@Redacted, my point is that outside the US point transfers basically don't exist. And don't get me started on airline credit cards.
This we non-US people basically get by miles through flying and "pay" the devaluations created by the massive inflation of the points market.
So for non-US airlines their loyalty systems don't really reward anymore the people that bring them business. So I understand that companies become more "protectionnist" and would rather release awards under their control so they can see how much of it is from flying and how much is from other sources and react accordingly.
My comment is just not-US centered.
Why would there be reciprocity if the market is skewed ?
What we are seeing on our side is that a while back, reasonable flying (say 2 -3 TATL return J itineraries) would get you enough miles to redeem a nice thing and get status. Now forget it. And that is not because there is less flying...
So yeah, it's become a game that everyone plays, most actually lose and a couple of winners express themselves here.
Free agency looking more attractive, huh?
"The sad decline of Lufthansa business class awards" goes along with the sad decline of Lufthansa business class quality.
That airline has, in so many ways, turned into a crapshow.
Which is sad. Because it didn't have to.
Is there a way to search LH award availability if your mileage balance is 0? I have a bunch of Chase UR points which I transfer if I know there’s availability for a flight I want such as AF but with LH and partners, I can’t check. Thanks.
You Need to have a balance of at least 7000 Miles to search for awards.
Seats(dot)aero can be helpful for *A partner searches.
I sprung for point.me and it will also provide you this information. It never shows any business class availability on LH, though first class does pop up on very short notice.
I think you're confused because your question doesn't make sense.
1) you cant transfer Chase to LH
2) if you're referring to a partner like AC, you don't need miles to search
Ehhh... it's inconsistency rather than absolute lack of rewards that's the issue.
There are threads devoted to this very discussion on Flyertalk... in short, awards will literally show up on Lifemiles for a few days, then disappear, then reappear. It's extremely frustrating, I know, but I wouldn't go as far as to say the absolute number of partner awards is decreasing unless I can get evidence to support that claim.
With 150k Amex, Chase or Citi points I can buy a regular paid round trip long-haul business class ticket. And it will even earn me at least half of a useful elite status level. In this context, airline mileage tickets are too often a big ripoff nowadays with sky high mileage prices and/or cash surcharges on mileage tickets.
Well you said it right there, 150k points. That's not an insignificant amount of credit card spend, even if maximizing earnings with 3/4x multipliers and 2x baseline.
For many folk, that would likely only be possible with the help of SUB so that's not a sustainable strategy for yearly travel.
Utilizing 30-50k points for business redemptions, on the other hand, is more within reach for many.
You rarely find J to Europe for under 50,000 points each way. I just booked 2 on VS to LHR for 35,000 miles each (25,000 w Amex 40% bonus) but that is the exception. I typically pay up to 85,000 each way (and consider that a bargain compared to US airlines). Just spent 107,5000 each way in J on Singapore SIN-JFK and we’ll worth it)
If 150,000 r/t (75,000 each way) bothers you then you...
You rarely find J to Europe for under 50,000 points each way. I just booked 2 on VS to LHR for 35,000 miles each (25,000 w Amex 40% bonus) but that is the exception. I typically pay up to 85,000 each way (and consider that a bargain compared to US airlines). Just spent 107,5000 each way in J on Singapore SIN-JFK and we’ll worth it)
If 150,000 r/t (75,000 each way) bothers you then you aren’t living in reality. Airlines aren’t giving away J for much less than that in a routine basis and how many points you may earn (or difficulty getting to that level of points) is the least of their concerns
"If 150,000 r/t (75,000 each way) bothers you then you aren’t living in reality"
On the contrary, I'd say if dropping 150k *doesn't* bother you, you must either be nestled in a fairly nice tax bracket or you're taking advantage of business spend.
In either case, as @Timothy_Dunningham notes above, that translates to a significantly high amount of credit card spend.
HOW do you use 150k points to buy a PAID long haul business class ticket? US to Europe is aroun 4-8k so "pay with points" would chanrge a lot more than 150k
Do they allow partial payment with points and accept cash for the balance?
He's likely referring to the 1.5x with CSR, but even in that case the 150k figure is low.
Yes.
150k * 1.54cpp = $2200-2300 with the Business Platinum or CSR. Seems low.
If transferred with bonus to AC and "paid" with AC? Let's say 200k AC points? Hard to say.
Schengen-US-Schenge for less than $1900 in business class.
$1,521.80 was the cash equivalent cost on Chase Travel for my Sweden-US-Sweden business class ticket flown in November.
It’s been pretty easy to get 75k-100k Chase points from new Ink business cards. And I have the Chase Sapphire Reserve card account as well.
It's getting really tough from ORD
This wouldn't be too much of an issue if Lufthansa's own program wasn't such a dumpster fire. It's bad enough that the redemption rates aren't great to begin with, but the insultingly high fees they charge are ridiculous along with the draconian expiration policy makes their program next to worthless for most people. Then again, those extortionate fees go directly into the airline's pocket, and what better way to guarantee a cash cow than to...
This wouldn't be too much of an issue if Lufthansa's own program wasn't such a dumpster fire. It's bad enough that the redemption rates aren't great to begin with, but the insultingly high fees they charge are ridiculous along with the draconian expiration policy makes their program next to worthless for most people. Then again, those extortionate fees go directly into the airline's pocket, and what better way to guarantee a cash cow than to make your award seats available only to your own members who have to 1) pay cash or 2) pay ridiculous award fees.
All in all, it's enough to make simple cash-back programs look more and more appealing.
First: no expiration if you have the right Credit Card. ;)
Second: No high fees, if you choose the plus award.
And I see plenty of award space, but I use Miles and More and have Senator Status.
First: the credit card is out of reach for an overwhelming majority of the flying public, especially outside of Lufthansa's home countries or the USA.
Second: The plus award significantly dilutes the value of the points, since those rates are significantly higher than the points+fees rate (and the points rate here is often significantly higher than "partner" airline currencies).
Third: I'm happy for you and hope you're getting the most out of your...
First: the credit card is out of reach for an overwhelming majority of the flying public, especially outside of Lufthansa's home countries or the USA.
Second: The plus award significantly dilutes the value of the points, since those rates are significantly higher than the points+fees rate (and the points rate here is often significantly higher than "partner" airline currencies).
Third: I'm happy for you and hope you're getting the most out of your Senator status. As I mentioned in my original post, Lufthansa turned Miles & More into a cash cow for Lufthansa (not unlike United or Delta in the USA) by limiting award space and making it available primarily to their own members, versus partner airlines. And by doing so, they force customers to either burn through their miles as quickly as possible via exorbitant "plus" rates, or they rake in huge amounts of money through their exorbitant fees. Either way, they win, those in the hobby lose.
I appreciate you helping to prove my point, though ;)
This is interesting, I'll be in Europe in 2 weeks and booked LH via aeroplan r/t for 2 at the end of October. When I searched at the time, LH had loads of availability both in and out of JFK and EWR, while really the only other options in J were via TAP with awful connection times, and Egyptair. They must've made the change very recently.