To finish off my review trip to Hong Kong, I flew Delta’s Boeing 767-400ER business class (marketed as Delta One) on the six hour flight from New York (JFK) to Los Angeles (LAX). In a previous installment, I shared my thoughts on the incredible Delta One Lounges at both airports, which exceeded my (high) expectations. Unfortunately the flight as such didn’t leave me with the same positive impression.
There were some things I really liked about the flight, like the friendly service, the solid entertainment (including free Wi-Fi), the Missoni amenity kits, and the good bedding. But then there are aspects of the experience that leave a lot to be desired, like narrow seats that aren’t very comfortable, a lackluster meal service, and an embarrassing drink selection.
But I think that also really sums up Delta, in a way. The airline is very good at selectively investing in aspects of the experience, while having a subpar product in other ways, all while trying to make customers believe that it’s premium across the board.
Anyway, in this post I want to share some initial thoughts, and then soon I’ll have a full trip report. Let me note that obviously I was only flying this jet on a premium transcontinental route, and not a long haul flight, so below I’ll note which things are specific to transcon flights, and which would apply to long haul flights as well.
In this post:
Delta’s 767 business class seats are subpar
Delta’s Boeing 767-400ERs are configured with 34 business class seats, taking up the entire space between the first and second set of doors. The seats are in a 1-2-1 configuration, spread across nine rows, in a staggered layout. Delta has actually updated these seats in recent years, so this is still a relatively new product for the airline.
I had a “true” window seat, which is the best seating option in this configuration, since it provides the most separation from the aisle.
Here’s the thing — for a transcon flight, these seats are perfectly nice, and competitive. But Delta primarily uses these planes for long haul routes, including on many of its most premium long haul routes, like from Atlanta (ATL) to London (LHR).
For long haul business class, this simply isn’t a competitive product, at least among US airlines. Why? Well, the seats are really narrow, as you’d expect. I mean, Delta has a 1-2-1 configuration in business class on both the A350 and the 767. The A350 has nine seats per row in economy, while the 767 has seven seats per row in economy.
When in bed mode, I had very little space to move, and struggled to get comfortable. The seat also felt quite hard to me — it was almost like sleeping on an ironing board.
I also found the lavatory situation on this plane to be less than ideal. There’s a single lavatory in front of the cabin, and a single lavatory behind the cabin. The forward lavatory is shared with the pilots, while the rear lavatory is shared with the 20 premium economy passengers. That’s not a great lavatory to passenger ratio, and it meant there was almost always a queue.
Purely in terms of hard product, this is worse than any of American’s wide body business class seats (on the 777 and 787), and it’s worse than United’s wide body, long haul business class seats (on the 767s, 777s, and 787s). I mean, just compare Delta’s 767 business class to United’s 767 business class, as the seats are in a different league.
What’s even worse, if you ask me, is that the configuration of the aircraft I was on is Delta’s nice 767 product. Delta has over 60 767s in its fleet, and two-thirds of them are the 767-300ER, which have a much worse hard product.
I’m by no means suggesting this is the worst hard product in the world, but among its US peers, I do think this is pretty uncompetitive, especially given the number of premium long haul routes that this plane operates.
Delta’s business class entertainment & Wi-Fi are great
I was very happy with the entertainment selection in Delta’s 767 business class. The Delta Studio system offers a huge selection of movies and TV shows — specifically, there were 473 movies, 74 TV series, 141 audio options, and more.
Furthermore, this flight had free Wi-Fi for SkyMiles members, with Viasat being the provider. I found the speeds to be excellent for the most part, so appreciated the ability to stay connected at no cost.
Delta’s business class amenities are impressive
Despite this “only” being a transcon flight, Delta offers its full set of Delta One amenities on this route. This included comfortable bedding, like a plush pillow and a duvet.
I also finally got my hands on one of Delta’s new Missoni amenity kits. What a nice, premium collaboration! I also kind of love the Delta branded socks.
There were even slippers!
Delta’s business class food & drinks are underwhelming
So this is where I get really confused about Delta’s transcon flight strategy. Delta markets these flights as Delta One, which is the name of Delta’s premium, international business class experience. Clearly the airline is largely trying to offer a good experience, with things like real bedding, Missoni amenity kits, and Delta One Lounge access (the best perk of all!).
But then the onboard food and beverage service makes no sense to me. For example, Delta has no menus in Delta One on transcon flights. Furthermore, it’s not a coursed out meal. Instead, the salad, appetizer, and main course, are all served on one tray.
The food tasted quite decent, but it was definitely more of a domestic meal selection, in terms of the options, which were vegetable lasagna, turkey meatballs, or beef short rib.
Dessert options were just a cheese plate or an upside down pineapple cake.
While the food was okay, the alcohol selection was absolutely pitiful. I mean, I guess can’t blame Delta for not having printed menus, since I think most airlines would be embarrassed to put what’s on offer into writing, if this is the quality.
For example, the sparkling wine (“champagne,” as it was described) was Gambino Sparkling Wine Brut, which retails for $9.99 per bottle (and significantly less when buying in bulk). For context, the average retail price of Korbel is higher.
So Delta takes a very odd high-low approach to its service. You get amazing food and cocktails in the lounges, but once onboard, you get domestic first class food, and sparkling wine that’s under $10 per bottle.
How does this compare to the competition on premium transcon routes?
- JetBlue Mint business class has printed menus, and food that’s actually delicious, along with proper barista coffee
- American Flagship Business offers printed menus and a multi-course meal, similar to what you’ll find on an international flight
- United doesn’t market its transcon premium product as “Polaris,” so it has more of a standard domestic service; however, it’s also typically priced more reasonably than Delta, and is operated out of Newark
I guess I’m not sure whether to be disappointed that this is marketed as Delta One when the actual onboard product is watered down, or whether to be grateful that it’s marketed as Delta One, since it at least offers great lounge access? I guess I lean toward the latter, though I wish the product investment weren’t just on the ground.
Delta’s business class service is friendly
On the plus side, the crew on this flight was excellent. Los Angeles-based Jaylen was working my aisle, and he was super friendly and engaging with everyone. Delta does have better flight attendants on average, and that was definitely the case on this flight. He constantly checked on passengers, and just generally had a great attitude.
Bottom line
My Delta One business class flight was a mixed bag. While the Delta One Lounges blew me away, the inflight experience wasn’t as impressive. On the plus side, there was extensive entertainment, free Wi-Fi, impressive amenities, and friendly service.
However, otherwise I find Delta’s 767 business class hard product to be quite underwhelming, with seats that are narrow and quite hard (and again, this is the nice version of the 767). It’s ultimately perfectly fine for a transcon flight, but Delta also flies these planes in some competitive long haul markets.
On top of that, Delta’s inflight service is surprisingly watered down on these flights, given that they’re marketed as Delta One. I was expecting a coursed out meal, menus, and decent alcohol, but there was none of that.
What do you make of Delta’s 767 business class?
On a recent SCL-ATL flight, the delta one was 2-2-2 for close to $10k and it was full . As good as their upkeep of the planes is, their hard product is so underwhelming
and you got one of what was just 9 ex-Latam aircraft. The soft covers have been replaced but DL knew it would take 3 years to reconfigure those aircraft - and that is now happening.
By the end of the summer, there are just a couple 35Ls left in service.
and, again, this was the way they were configured for Latam, and TAM before.
finding the 5% of the fleet that is the exception might have been significant to you but the 35Ls were and still are the exception.
Funny and interesting review, with some points you definitely can't argue with. I remember being on one of the first 767-400 remodeled flights, from ZHR, and I was disappointed at how hard the seats were and how narrow they were on the shoulder (I have broad shoulders, so this is a pain point for me). But this was in 2019, and back then Delta had stronger alcohol/food offerings on that route (though I think they...
Funny and interesting review, with some points you definitely can't argue with. I remember being on one of the first 767-400 remodeled flights, from ZHR, and I was disappointed at how hard the seats were and how narrow they were on the shoulder (I have broad shoulders, so this is a pain point for me). But this was in 2019, and back then Delta had stronger alcohol/food offerings on that route (though I think they have brought a lot of it back as the pandemic cuts have been phased out).
Here is the deal - Delta inconsistently offers things like menus and coursed service on transcontinental Delta One flights. And they do need to do stuff like improve the quality of the wines - which I think they have plans to do. But Delta's transcon success seems to indicate the market values a few things...
- Lounge access
- A big schedule
- Good service
- Operational reliability
They deliver on all of that in the transcon market. Now let's compare to the competition
- United doesn't do "premium transcons" in any meaningful way
- JetBlue Mint is a good onboard product, but with perceived reliability issues and no ground service. JetBlue can't consistently get pricing on a lot of its mint routes, which is a problem. Also, I would remark that JetBlue's food, while sometimes better than Delta, isn't knock your socks off.
- American, with the A321T, coursed menus, first class, etc, actually had the best transcon product for a number of years. And they still have good service in terms of the coursed meals. But they have basically de-emphasized, cut and abandoned the product. The aircraft switch will likely lead to cuts, they are now outclassed in lounges by Delta, and don't seem to have plans to try to compete.
In terms of Delta One branding in general, you need to take longer flights on the A350, A330-900, etc - some of Delta's newer and better planes. The service standard, meal cadence, etc is different for these flights than Delta One transcon flights. And that makes sense - the flights are longer, the flights cost more, so you get more service. I think it is unrealistic to expect the same service standard on a sub 5 hour LAX to JFK flight as you would get on a 8 or 9 hour ATL to MXP flight or something. Domestically, most passengers seem to be very happy with D1 on the 767 flights. In terms of alcohol, stick with the beer and mixed drink selection (Woodford) if you really care
That wine is double the price of the Cook's and Andre that Delta has previously been caught serving. But yeah, that Italian sparkling wine is SO CHEAP that it can't even be called prosecco .
The entrees on D1 are not just "more of a domestic meal selection," they are often identical. For example, looking from SEA to CDG and SEA to LAX next Monday, two of the three options are the same (using the Delta menu website). Starters, desserts, and wine selection will be different.
How would you rank the four airlines for each use case:
1. Day time flight traveling for business
2. Red eye
3. Leisure trip
Just got off an itinerary LAX-SEA-TPE in F & Delta One. Really loved the upscale DL1 lounge in LAX. The a339neo is better than either 767 seat, but the seat was still really hard. Thankfully, for that length of flight, they give you a mattress topper.
It’s sad that delta only offers a single tray service in DL One on transcon… but that’s par for the course for them considering it’s all they offer...
Just got off an itinerary LAX-SEA-TPE in F & Delta One. Really loved the upscale DL1 lounge in LAX. The a339neo is better than either 767 seat, but the seat was still really hard. Thankfully, for that length of flight, they give you a mattress topper.
It’s sad that delta only offers a single tray service in DL One on transcon… but that’s par for the course for them considering it’s all they offer for a 13+ hour flight that leaves at prime dinner time! Those flights also offer standard domestic first class meals. I’ve been offered the same meatballs on countless domestic F flights for years as well as SEA-TPE and LAX-SYD. sure, they’re tasty, but at least elevate them a little! All this to say, Your transon experience is pretty much the exact same as their longest international routes, with exception of the mattress topper . As a DL diamond medallion who usually travels internationally on partner airlines, all I have to say is… Step it up, Delta.
valid comments but you are aware that DL is in the process of reworking its Delta One service and it is certain that it will include domestic D1 service - although the focus might be on longhaul international flights.
it's interesting that you had single tray service to TPE. I have had the usual multi-course service on DL flights from eastern US hubs to Asia so the disconnect is interesting.
The 330NEO is a very...
valid comments but you are aware that DL is in the process of reworking its Delta One service and it is certain that it will include domestic D1 service - although the focus might be on longhaul international flights.
it's interesting that you had single tray service to TPE. I have had the usual multi-course service on DL flights from eastern US hubs to Asia so the disconnect is interesting.
The 330NEO is a very fine plane but it is most notable that nearly all TPAC flights will be 350s by the end of the year. and for all the commentary about the width of cabins, the 350 is wider than the 787 and Ben has noted the DL 1 product on the 350 is solid. only the 777 is wider than the 350 but the 777s burn much more fuel.
Looks pretty premium to me!
as objective and accurate as Ben was in his assessment of the Delta One lounges, this article is why Ben is completely incapable of understanding the concept that ALL US airlines are businesses. They have to meet all kinds of objectives but they understand how best to meet all objectives.
first, the 767 was the first high production small twin. It wasn't until Airbus got serious about the A330 that it displaced the 767. The...
as objective and accurate as Ben was in his assessment of the Delta One lounges, this article is why Ben is completely incapable of understanding the concept that ALL US airlines are businesses. They have to meet all kinds of objectives but they understand how best to meet all objectives.
first, the 767 was the first high production small twin. It wasn't until Airbus got serious about the A330 that it displaced the 767. The 767 is a small widebody and with it a narrow cabin compared to new generation aircraft.
Delta years ago decided the 767s would leave the fleet in the latter half of this decade.
All the talk about how much better other aircraft are has to be taken in the context of Boeing's massive delivery delays including with the 787. Airlines have no choice but to keep aircraft in service they would rather not use.
DL also has said that it will minimize its use of the 767s to routes where larger widebodies don't work including based on economics.
and the biggest factor is that, despite what Ben thinks about product, there is ample evidence that DL's 767s get market average or better average fares which precisely shows that DL is using its fleet where it is economically justifiable to do so and not just to produce a product that is not economically or marketing competitive.
and let's also REALLY look at the competitive situation.
UA does not serve JFK despite knocking itself silly trying to reverse the decision of previous execs to leave JFK.
Even from EWR, they do use 757s on many flights - as well as across the Atlantic. Those planes don't have direct aisle access from every seat in business class and also have narrower seats than the 767 throughout the cabin.
AA uses aged 321s that are falling apart and will be removed from service and never were economically viable
B6 has low flight attendant staffing, locks its Mint cabin doors open, and does not get the average fares that AA or DL gets.... the premium cabin market does not choose B6.
so, yes, DL has to improve its product but it is in line or better than the competition.
Yeah, agree. Delta doesn't seem to be having issues filling these planes at often very high fares. Would $75 champs be nice? Sure. But what's the business case for that?
They could $17 Chandon or Mumm sparkling wine.
11 paragraphs and counting despite saying Ben was objective and calls a spade a spade yesterday.
Tim, this is why ALWAYS speaking in absolute terms rarely works for anyone, especially you since you generally misuse data you don't understand.
No doubt, a long day ahead for you. Delta does some things well, some things poorly. the 767 just shouldn't be worth defending a company that fired you in exchange for your dignity.
I think it's worth noting, however, that UA, recognizing the narrow fuselage of the 767, installed Polaris in 1-1-1, which DL certainly could have done but chose not to.
I know everyone says this, but I really don't understand why JFK is seen as more desirable than EWR - I find them to be comparably convenient (at least from Midtown or Downtown).
As a passenger, I don't care about the history of the 767, I don't care that Delta plans to retire them in an undisclosed amount of years, I don't care about Boeing delivery issues - and 99.99% of passengers do not care about any of this. I care about what I'm going to fly on my immediate travel plans, and those planes are not comfortable in D1/First class, so I will fly something else more...
As a passenger, I don't care about the history of the 767, I don't care that Delta plans to retire them in an undisclosed amount of years, I don't care about Boeing delivery issues - and 99.99% of passengers do not care about any of this. I care about what I'm going to fly on my immediate travel plans, and those planes are not comfortable in D1/First class, so I will fly something else more comfortable whenever possible. For TATL, the options are endless.
And your point about JFK/EWR is not really relevant for a lot of NYC based people like me, since both airports are just as annoying to get to from most of the city it's rarely a deal breaker.
Also funny how you conveniently completely ignore the food/beverage situation.
Hahahahahahahaha! Crybaby Dunn strikes again!
And in a stunning display of mental acrobatics, Tim Dunn stuck the landing as he dramatically dismounts the pommel (beating a dead) horse. A true master of twisting logic and tumbling through arguments, folks. Give that man a medal!!!
Posters like you are WORSE than the original.
NSS gets it and others can't stand to admit that I am right. Anthony above gets it.
The market doesn't support the level of support on transcons that exists on DL's widebody longhaul flights.
DL's competitive positioning on flights where the 767 operates is strong and that is provable.
JFK IS where the largest volume of NYC industry transon passengers fly. It doesn't matter where someone else is....and UA is trying to get back to...
NSS gets it and others can't stand to admit that I am right. Anthony above gets it.
The market doesn't support the level of support on transcons that exists on DL's widebody longhaul flights.
DL's competitive positioning on flights where the 767 operates is strong and that is provable.
JFK IS where the largest volume of NYC industry transon passengers fly. It doesn't matter where someone else is....and UA is trying to get back to JFK precisely because they are in the smaller part of the transcon market.
UA did put a better business class product on the 767 but, because of consistency, has a markedly inferior product on their 787s and 777s. The Delta 767s will be off of international routes in a few years. United has precisely ZERO widebody aircraft that have suites with doors and it is ironic that the airline that operates one of the largest widebody fleets in the world will likely debut suites with doors on a narrowbody aircraft.
Business class might be narrow, but economy on a 767 is probably the best (not counting JAL). 2-3-2 is hard to beat in the back of the bus.
Even better is the 2-2-2 in Premium, esp. aisle access in the middle seats. But overall the 767 sucks and I wish DL retires it early.
$9.99 champagne... No wonder Delta is the most profitable airline in the world.
I fly transcon multiple times each year. While Delta has the superior ground experience, for me, AA's Flagship First is the superior in-flight experience. As dated as the T-Birds are, for me, the seats are better. As much as some complain about AA, I've always had excellent service and the food (other than the beef) has been quite good. Given what I've seen about the XLRs, I don't think my opinion will change. Others might differ.
To be fair, if Delta were to move to a Super Diamond type seat and commit to better catering, I'd give them a go. But, given what Ben noted about the recent cabin refresh with the existing seats, I don't see it happening.
UNITED upped its game on transcon wine and food, as well as international. Delta falling behind on that front in Delta ONE - especially the poor wines.
Strange. I just flew this exact route 5 days ago and had printed menus and also a different brand of actual champagne.
ok time to guess his comment. my guess:
"Well Ben it's actually ridiculous that you would compare the 767 to the other domestic airlines 777 when DL has invested so heavily in replacing their fleet with A350's that will offer superior fuel economics and range and PROFITABILITY to DL so maybe include that in your article hmmm??? Also that lasagna looks PREMIUM as hell so be grateful"
“Ben once again goes out of his way just to fly a plane he knows it’s an embarrassment. Even though I have been banned from pretty much every aviation related website out there, somewhere in my sick head I still think that writing 10 paragraphs of my DL fetish counts as arguing.”
He lives in your head rent free
@Wootles. He's just a joke and a laughing stock. It's not a surprise someone would try to predict the world's biggest delta propaganda joker before he starts his normal rant against Ben for daring to question Delta.
Frankly, this website would be a better place with Tim's 100 paragraphs of nonsense replaced by 4 jokes about the nonsense.
In the words of the resident King Edward Bastian court jester:
“"Ben is pretty objective and calls spades as spades."”
Couldn’t agree more.
I'm 6'2" with a broad build and have never had an issue on the 767-400, the 767-300 on the other hand...
You're giving our Delta fanboy some real emotional whiplash between the lounge review and this one :D . I really wish I could fly Delta more often but the almost impossible to avoid 767 - at least on the routes I fly the most - is a hard pass, especially when I have a good amount of other options usually. Annoying when I'm trying to be loyal to Skyteam. They really really need to stop flying these.
While I would argue that DL has some of the best transcon & international service (from my experience of the big 3), I personally would rather take United Polaris or American Flagship as their hard products are much more comfortable. Especially for someone over 6 feet and with larger legs/feet.
Average skyteam experience
Not that it makes a tremendous difference, but the armrest closer to the window can be lowered, which makes the seat a couple inches wider.
I would be more interested in the taste of a drink the in the price. The champagne in QR first was not my cup of tea, but probably retails for over USD100 a bottle.
"...and two-thirds of them are the 767-300ER, which have a much worse hard product."
I flew the 767-300 D1 SFO-JFK in December, and one thing that just stood out to me is that everyone had their coats on their laps or on the table the entire flight. Does DL not have closets on the -300? Were there just too many coats on my flight?
And yeah, DL has great lounges, however the 767s are an embarrassment.
Delta does have closets on the 767-300. With coat collection, I have found
1) Flight attendants inconsistently gather them
2) When flight attendants offer to gather them, passengers inconsistently give them to the attendants