To finish off my review trip to Hong Kong, I flew Delta’s Boeing 767-400ER business class (marketed as Delta One) on the six hour flight from New York (JFK) to Los Angeles (LAX). In a previous installment, I shared my thoughts on the incredible Delta One Lounges at both airports, which exceeded my (high) expectations. Unfortunately the flight as such didn’t leave me with the same positive impression.
There were some things I really liked about the flight, like the friendly service, the solid entertainment (including free Wi-Fi), the Missoni amenity kits, and the good bedding. But then there are aspects of the experience that leave a lot to be desired, like narrow seats that aren’t very comfortable, a lackluster meal service, and an embarrassing drink selection.
But I think that also really sums up Delta, in a way. The airline is very good at selectively investing in aspects of the experience, while having a subpar product in other ways, all while trying to make customers believe that it’s premium across the board.
Anyway, in this post I want to share some initial thoughts, and then soon I’ll have a full trip report. Let me note that obviously I was only flying this jet on a premium transcontinental route, and not a long haul flight, so below I’ll note which things are specific to transcon flights, and which would apply to long haul flights as well.
In this post:
Delta’s 767 business class seats are subpar
Delta’s Boeing 767-400ERs are configured with 34 business class seats, taking up the entire space between the first and second set of doors. The seats are in a 1-2-1 configuration, spread across nine rows, in a staggered layout. Delta has actually updated these seats in recent years, so this is still a relatively new product for the airline.
I had a “true” window seat, which is the best seating option in this configuration, since it provides the most separation from the aisle.
Here’s the thing — for a transcon flight, these seats are perfectly nice, and competitive. But Delta primarily uses these planes for long haul routes, including on many of its most premium long haul routes, like from Atlanta (ATL) to London (LHR).
For long haul business class, this simply isn’t a competitive product, at least among US airlines. Why? Well, the seats are really narrow, as you’d expect. I mean, Delta has a 1-2-1 configuration in business class on both the A350 and the 767. The A350 has nine seats per row in economy, while the 767 has seven seats per row in economy.
When in bed mode, I had very little space to move, and struggled to get comfortable. The seat also felt quite hard to me — it was almost like sleeping on an ironing board.
I also found the lavatory situation on this plane to be less than ideal. There’s a single lavatory in front of the cabin, and a single lavatory behind the cabin. The forward lavatory is shared with the pilots, while the rear lavatory is shared with the 20 premium economy passengers. That’s not a great lavatory to passenger ratio, and it meant there was almost always a queue.
Purely in terms of hard product, this is worse than any of American’s wide body business class seats (on the 777 and 787), and it’s worse than United’s wide body, long haul business class seats (on the 767s, 777s, and 787s). I mean, just compare Delta’s 767 business class to United’s 767 business class, as the seats are in a different league.
What’s even worse, if you ask me, is that the configuration of the aircraft I was on is Delta’s nice 767 product. Delta has over 60 767s in its fleet, and two-thirds of them are the 767-300ER, which have a much worse hard product.
I’m by no means suggesting this is the worst hard product in the world, but among its US peers, I do think this is pretty uncompetitive, especially given the number of premium long haul routes that this plane operates.
Delta’s business class entertainment & Wi-Fi are great
I was very happy with the entertainment selection in Delta’s 767 business class. The Delta Studio system offers a huge selection of movies and TV shows — specifically, there were 473 movies, 74 TV series, 141 audio options, and more.
Furthermore, this flight had free Wi-Fi for SkyMiles members, with Viasat being the provider. I found the speeds to be excellent for the most part, so appreciated the ability to stay connected at no cost.
Delta’s business class amenities are impressive
Despite this “only” being a transcon flight, Delta offers its full set of Delta One amenities on this route. This included comfortable bedding, like a plush pillow and a duvet.
I also finally got my hands on one of Delta’s new Missoni amenity kits. What a nice, premium collaboration! I also kind of love the Delta branded socks.
There were even slippers!
Delta’s business class food & drinks are underwhelming
So this is where I get really confused about Delta’s transcon flight strategy. Delta markets these flights as Delta One, which is the name of Delta’s premium, international business class experience. Clearly the airline is largely trying to offer a good experience, with things like real bedding, Missoni amenity kits, and Delta One Lounge access (the best perk of all!).
But then the onboard food and beverage service makes no sense to me. For example, Delta has no menus in Delta One on transcon flights. Furthermore, it’s not a coursed out meal. Instead, the salad, appetizer, and main course, are all served on one tray.
The food tasted quite decent, but it was definitely more of a domestic meal selection, in terms of the options, which were vegetable lasagna, turkey meatballs, or beef short rib.
Dessert options were just a cheese plate or an upside down pineapple cake.
While the food was okay, the alcohol selection was absolutely pitiful. I mean, I guess can’t blame Delta for not having printed menus, since I think most airlines would be embarrassed to put what’s on offer into writing, if this is the quality.
For example, the sparkling wine (“champagne,” as it was described) was Gambino Sparkling Wine Brut, which retails for $9.99 per bottle (and significantly less when buying in bulk). For context, the average retail price of Korbel is higher.
So Delta takes a very odd high-low approach to its service. You get amazing food and cocktails in the lounges, but once onboard, you get domestic first class food, and sparkling wine that’s under $10 per bottle.
How does this compare to the competition on premium transcon routes?
- JetBlue Mint business class has printed menus, and food that’s actually delicious, along with proper barista coffee
- American Flagship Business offers printed menus and a multi-course meal, similar to what you’ll find on an international flight
- United doesn’t market its transcon premium product as “Polaris,” so it has more of a standard domestic service; however, it’s also typically priced more reasonably than Delta, and is operated out of Newark
I guess I’m not sure whether to be disappointed that this is marketed as Delta One when the actual onboard product is watered down, or whether to be grateful that it’s marketed as Delta One, since it at least offers great lounge access? I guess I lean toward the latter, though I wish the product investment weren’t just on the ground.
Delta’s business class service is friendly
On the plus side, the crew on this flight was excellent. Los Angeles-based Jaylen was working my aisle, and he was super friendly and engaging with everyone. Delta does have better flight attendants on average, and that was definitely the case on this flight. He constantly checked on passengers, and just generally had a great attitude.
Bottom line
My Delta One business class flight was a mixed bag. While the Delta One Lounges blew me away, the inflight experience wasn’t as impressive. On the plus side, there was extensive entertainment, free Wi-Fi, impressive amenities, and friendly service.
However, otherwise I find Delta’s 767 business class hard product to be quite underwhelming, with seats that are narrow and quite hard (and again, this is the nice version of the 767). It’s ultimately perfectly fine for a transcon flight, but Delta also flies these planes in some competitive long haul markets.
On top of that, Delta’s inflight service is surprisingly watered down on these flights, given that they’re marketed as Delta One. I was expecting a coursed out meal, menus, and decent alcohol, but there was none of that.
What do you make of Delta’s 767 business class?
I can only agree with the seating situation. I felt like a sardine in a tin can on 'Delta One'. On a Transatlantic red eye. It was the most uncomfortable seat I ever experienced in Business Class in 10 years. Never used them again.
Same exact route just a few weeks ago; really loved the flight and JFK lounge. Best domestic journey of my life (in the USA at least :))
Seats are great for JFK/LAX; don't remember the food but yeah probably it could be better...but still better than UA and more or less the same as AA.
I'm at the point where I'm happy to pay a decent bit more to fly D1 domestically.
The D1 experience has been going down the drain lately. 3 consecutive flights… here’s what happened on the last one:
Atlanta to CDG 330neo, food was served on one tray, cold soup, inedible chewy beef, no drinks and no refills. I asked if I can get any other meal even from Premium or Economy and was told none were available, instead was offered more soup!! I declined and the FA took the tray back....
The D1 experience has been going down the drain lately. 3 consecutive flights… here’s what happened on the last one:
Atlanta to CDG 330neo, food was served on one tray, cold soup, inedible chewy beef, no drinks and no refills. I asked if I can get any other meal even from Premium or Economy and was told none were available, instead was offered more soup!! I declined and the FA took the tray back. Dessert was ice cream brought in a bowel with everything on it, wasn’t asked what I wanted or didn’t want.
Paid D1 here, MM and Diamond.
Never again paying for D1. I’ll only fly D1 if they upgrade me or using GUCs. Ain’t worth it!
While the hard product on DL 767s is sub-par, it's perfectly fine for a transcon flight. I hope they really are improving food and drink in D1, but I have to say the meal looks better than UA and AA.
Regardless how much the avgeek universe complains, DL unquestionably has its finger on the pulse of what MOST passengers respond to, and they are commanding the highest premium fares in the JFK-LAX market. Whether its...
While the hard product on DL 767s is sub-par, it's perfectly fine for a transcon flight. I hope they really are improving food and drink in D1, but I have to say the meal looks better than UA and AA.
Regardless how much the avgeek universe complains, DL unquestionably has its finger on the pulse of what MOST passengers respond to, and they are commanding the highest premium fares in the JFK-LAX market. Whether its the comfort of widebodies, outstanding lounges, friendly staff, etc, who knows? Yes, UA has a better seat, but fewer widebodies, no JFK and no premium lounge on transcon. AA has "coursed" meals, but menus are stuck in ca. 1998 airline cuisine, and presentation is lacking (but...sundaes). Hard product trails DL significantly on most flights.
One thing is for certain, when DL believes it will earn a return on better food, wine or seating plans, the appropriate investments will occur. They seem to be doing a great job balancing all stakeholders' prirorities (i.e, shareholders, customers and employees).
thank you.
and to be clear, the vast majority of airline passengers don't read or are moved but what happens on aviation social media.
I believe United does offer an elevated meal service on its Premium transcontinental flights between Newark and LAX/SFO. I have flown that route in J a couple times in recent times on a widebody with the Polaris cabins and I've always had a multi-course meal with mixed nuts and a drink to start, then the tray with the appetizer. The main is brought out some time after, and then everything was cleared and I was...
I believe United does offer an elevated meal service on its Premium transcontinental flights between Newark and LAX/SFO. I have flown that route in J a couple times in recent times on a widebody with the Polaris cabins and I've always had a multi-course meal with mixed nuts and a drink to start, then the tray with the appetizer. The main is brought out some time after, and then everything was cleared and I was offered dessert. I haven't flown UA domestic First in over a decade, so I don't know if this is the standard domestic premium cabin meal service, but I highly doubt it.
and yet UA offers a hodge-podge of aircraft w/ the Polaris widebodies least likely to serve the transcon routes in the summer when they can be flying international routes.
again, DL committed years ago to an all widebody schedule on JFK-LAX and it has become the largest airline. It gets the highest revenue in the market.
UA doesn't even serve JFK - something it says it wants to fix - but JFK is the...
and yet UA offers a hodge-podge of aircraft w/ the Polaris widebodies least likely to serve the transcon routes in the summer when they can be flying international routes.
again, DL committed years ago to an all widebody schedule on JFK-LAX and it has become the largest airline. It gets the highest revenue in the market.
UA doesn't even serve JFK - something it says it wants to fix - but JFK is the largest NYC origin for LAX traffic
AA uses the 321Ts which will be replaced by XLRs when they are certified and received. B6 has Mint which is a good product but the service is slipping and they won't even staff enough FAs to be able to keep the Mint doors open.
DL offers a product in line with what the market will pay and also in line with what competitors offer.
You are correct. I take 4-8 EWR/LAX trips in UA J every year. I have been doing this for 5 years. Notwithstanding some other comments, UA actually does consistently fly 787s and 777s on this route year round including in the summer, so much so that I have not taken a 757 since before the pandemic. Having also flown D1 and Mint I actually have decided I prefer the UA service for the hard product...
You are correct. I take 4-8 EWR/LAX trips in UA J every year. I have been doing this for 5 years. Notwithstanding some other comments, UA actually does consistently fly 787s and 777s on this route year round including in the summer, so much so that I have not taken a 757 since before the pandemic. Having also flown D1 and Mint I actually have decided I prefer the UA service for the hard product and schedule. The food, while still not good, is at least (finally) improving, I don’t think it is a differentiator between UA and DL on this route. Jet Blue has great food but a lousy network and outside of the mint cabin it’s a cattle call. Plus the narrow body seats, while nice, are also pretty tight.
@Ben I’d be very curious to get your take on the UA premium transcon product these days.
You are correct. I take 4-8 EWR/LAX trips in UA J every year. I have been doing this for 5 years. Notwithstanding some other comments, UA actually does consistently fly 787s and 777s on this route year round including in the summer, so much so that I have not taken a 757 since before the pandemic. Having also flown D1 and Mint I actually have decided I prefer the UA service for the hard product...
You are correct. I take 4-8 EWR/LAX trips in UA J every year. I have been doing this for 5 years. Notwithstanding some other comments, UA actually does consistently fly 787s and 777s on this route year round including in the summer, so much so that I have not taken a 757 since before the pandemic. Having also flown D1 and Mint I actually have decided I prefer the UA service for the hard product and schedule. The food, while still not good, is at least (finally) improving, I don’t think it is a differentiator between UA and DL on this route. Jet Blue has great food but a lousy network and outside of the mint cabin it’s a cattle call. Plus the narrow body seats, while nice, are also pretty tight.
@Ben I’d be very curious to get your take on the UA premium transcon product these days.
A friendly piece of advice: you don't get into a pissing contest with a skunk, especially with a chatbot-powered one (as per Eisenhower's...)
Isn’t it illegal to market as champagne and then not serve champagne? Even if it was a similar quality sparkling wine, it’s still not champagne.
"it’s not a coursed out meal" - This is not an intelligible English language sentence.
Weird. The rest of us understood it
I hope you can find some intelligence in your brain.
Most English speakers understand a lot of variants of the language. It isn’t tough.
What did you not understand aside from your delta analyst self mad about it?
My business class meal arrived all at once on a single tray, rather than being served in separate courses.
Better ?
Actually the sentence makes sense to me and most everyone else.
@FedUP -- Your rite.
I was served similar swill sparkling wine last year in Delta One on JFK-BOG. I expressed my surprise to a flight attendant who said “This isn’t a flight to Paris.”
An interesting thread in a couple of ways, even leaving aside the two-way sniping match between advocates for Delta and their critics, plus ça change.
The first is the comparisons between this flight and what might be on offer on international routes, with an almost unspoken idea that as it's a domestic flight, why would you expect more. It seems to me that one of the target audiences of passengers here is those that see...
An interesting thread in a couple of ways, even leaving aside the two-way sniping match between advocates for Delta and their critics, plus ça change.
The first is the comparisons between this flight and what might be on offer on international routes, with an almost unspoken idea that as it's a domestic flight, why would you expect more. It seems to me that one of the target audiences of passengers here is those that see what they get on a domestic D1 flight as an indication of the quality of international D1. Telling them they'll probably have a better experience on an international flight isn't exactly a selling point. Reports of 'bait and switch', even from known critics here, hardly adds to their confidence.
The second, and to me it was a statement of the obvious, was when [I think] Ben said that these threads are about customer experience, not the profitability of an airline, nor about whether the customer experience was sustainable given commercial factors or aircraft delivery schedules.
In all of this, hard product is predictable, will often differ between aircraft in an airline's fleet, so you can try to book on your preferred aircraft type. An airline that regularly replaces a known 'good' hard product with a known 'inferior' one is only raising red flags on itself. Once a misfortune, twice a coincidence, more often reflects disdain for customers. Of course, soft product matters too.
and, once again, AA operates the A321T from JFK-LAX and that aircraft is known to have multiple cabin maintenance issues.
B6 uses the A321 with Mint but Ben just did an article about the service he received - which is just as anecdotal as his experience about DL.
As Ben noted, UA doesn't even market its NYC transcon service as Polaris which is a good thing because they do sell their 757 = 2X2 business...
and, once again, AA operates the A321T from JFK-LAX and that aircraft is known to have multiple cabin maintenance issues.
B6 uses the A321 with Mint but Ben just did an article about the service he received - which is just as anecdotal as his experience about DL.
As Ben noted, UA doesn't even market its NYC transcon service as Polaris which is a good thing because they do sell their 757 = 2X2 business class on international routes as Polaris.
SO, despite what you want to believe, DL's service is not out of line for the market. None of the 3 competitors knock it out of the park. DL is the leader in the NYC-LAX market so they clearly find plenty of people that are willing to pay their fares - which are higher than UA's - because they can get people to pay them.
I get that you don't care about profits. And Ben might not either.
But when people repeatedly fail to recognize that airlines are businesses and they respond to business forces and not just blogger's desires to have a product which no one else offers in the same market.
Get a life, loser
You spent your day defending the delta 767 product
Aren’t you tired of defending filth and poverty?
I guess not because it’s all you fly so you know little better.
Your life could be better, tim
seriously, what is REALLY your goal in life but to show up and attack people on forums?
YOU and ONLY YOU are the loser.
Really, troll?
Grow up and get some self awareness.
You defend delta incessantly now are mad that you’re associated with delta’s subpar wide body product?
Apparently, all caps really emphasizes.
Ok. Tim
You’re A LOSER and everyone thinks you’re an idiot.
Should I use more caps to reply in style to you?
Tim. You don’t get to lie at whim without being called out. You’re fired from The industry due to your incompetence. By delta.
Most on here are not.
Is your goal in life to convince rational people that living in your delirious sick parallel reality is good ? You were banned from the community AND the industry for a reason. You are the only person in the world who’s interested in all the bullshit you vomit in here every day. So yeah, do you have any idea of how much of a loser that makes you ?
I didn't say whether I care about profits or not. I didn't even express an opinion about the quality of an airline's service. You imagined that. I did say that profits and passenger experience are two separate things. You can have opinions about both. I am capable of expressing an opinion about each without reference to the other. I also did say that if an airline does something that detracts from customers' experience, they are...
I didn't say whether I care about profits or not. I didn't even express an opinion about the quality of an airline's service. You imagined that. I did say that profits and passenger experience are two separate things. You can have opinions about both. I am capable of expressing an opinion about each without reference to the other. I also did say that if an airline does something that detracts from customers' experience, they are likely to project that onto that airline more broadly.
yes. you are capable of opinions and you at least can debate a point which is far more than some of the other people on the thread can do , specifically the ones directly above you.
It doesn't matter how opinionated you or others are or how right you THINK the carryover effect is, ALL US airlines are for-profit companies and they make decisions with profits in mind. It is beyond naive and simplistic to...
yes. you are capable of opinions and you at least can debate a point which is far more than some of the other people on the thread can do , specifically the ones directly above you.
It doesn't matter how opinionated you or others are or how right you THINK the carryover effect is, ALL US airlines are for-profit companies and they make decisions with profits in mind. It is beyond naive and simplistic to think they are going to offer a product for which the market does not pay enough to fully cover costs and earn a profit.
Sure, we would all love private jet, personalized service comparable to the Ritz but we don't pay fares anywhere comparable to that amount.
DL is the largest carrier not just at JFK and LAX but also in the NYC to LAX market. and they get the highest fares other than AA with its A321T strategy which doesn't make money because the costs are too high relative to the number of passengers they serve.
The 767s have served Delta well, DL has said they do not have a cabin wide enough to offer the premium levels of service that they want to offer, but they aren't sending 50 airplanes to the desert because a bunch of whiny people on social media make comparisons to other airlines' aircraft which don't even serve the JFK-LAX market.
DL will and does respond to what the market says - the people that buy its products. They will upgrade where it makes sense financially to do so.
As long as people on this or any other blog fail to understand these principles, regardless of the airline, there will be people like me to bring the conversation back to reality.
In the Fall of 2023, I flew Delta One from Detroit to London Heathrow. As you indicate, the seat was the most narrow and uncomfortable seat I have ever had on a long haul flight. Worse yet, the food, both dinner and breakfast, were completely inedible. The return flight was on Virgin Atlantic . What a difference! And don't get me started on the crowded lounge in Detroit. From now on, I fly United Polaris class.
If you think this is subpar try flying a 763 internationally- for me it was "one and done" - it was beyond awful
I gladly pay more for better service
Air France has its issues but I much prefer flying them to Europe than Delta.
“ When in bed mode, I had very little space to move, and struggled to get comfortable. The seat also felt quite hard to me — it was almost like sleeping on an ironing board”.
Exaggeration doesn’t add credibility to your review.
I think anyone who is interested in the review itself, rather than the thread as a place to practise their snark proficiency, can understand the use of mild hyperbole to make a point humorously.
It seems like your issue is with the aircraft and not Delta specifically to be honest.
Are there any 767 hard products that you would actually consider cutting edge? The only one I can think of that is "better" would be United's 1-1-1 Polaris seat.
For a 767, this feels like a solid product.
Agreed, UA’s Polaris is superior.
There are ALWAYS ways to put a high quality product on any aircraft.
The hypocrisy with the incessant harping on DL's 767s is
1. United clearly values consistency in its hard product - but NOT A SINGLE OTHER major global airline has tried to do the same - for very good reason. Polaris is not industry-leading and was obsolete when Delta introduced its Delta One suites on its A350s - the two came out about...
There are ALWAYS ways to put a high quality product on any aircraft.
The hypocrisy with the incessant harping on DL's 767s is
1. United clearly values consistency in its hard product - but NOT A SINGLE OTHER major global airline has tried to do the same - for very good reason. Polaris is not industry-leading and was obsolete when Delta introduced its Delta One suites on its A350s - the two came out about the same time. Delta has scores of A350s and A330NEOs that have business class suites while UA has precisely ZERO.
and UA will have to deal with its product inferiority to a number of global airlines including DL, and UA will not have a consistent product at that point.
and
2. UA doesn't have consistency in its international fleet. It operates 2X2 configured 757s across the Atlantic. and even if they replace them as fast or faster than DL pulls its 767-300ERs off of international flights, but it is now sending 737s across the Atlantic and as feeder aircraft for its NRT hub.
So, yes, DL doesn't have a class-leading product on its 767s but they are more in line with the way other airlines manage their fleets and DL is retiring its older aircraft, something AA and UA cannot do.
and there are things that DL can do even considering the current hard product that I suspect will be the norm - including mattress pads on all international flights and better food and beverage.
Let's not forget that Delta still consistently gets higher customer service ratings than AA or UA.
@Tim Dunn
"So, yes, DL doesn't have a class-leading product on its 767s but they are more in line with the way other airlines manage their fleets and DL is retiring its older aircraft, something AA and UA cannot do."
You are correct. Delta has less than class-leading products on ancient aircraft.
I think you answered your own question. Yes. There are better hard products on the 767. That also compete directly with Delta in NYC.
and no one is forcing Delta to keep an outdated hard product on an ancient aircraft. Delta and United are about the only major airlines in the world hanging on to a 767 for regular service aside. Delta is the only major airline in the world with this god-awful product. Even LATAM made their 767 ever so slightly better.
and Delta manages to make more money flying the Atlantic and generates more revenue flying NYC to LAX than UA.
So, clearly, you are clueless about what really matters in the real world and create false equivalencies that anyone with half a brain can spot from a mile away.
Why are you so afraid to talk about UA's inferior 757 product or the lack of even plans for a suite product - as DL approaches...
and Delta manages to make more money flying the Atlantic and generates more revenue flying NYC to LAX than UA.
So, clearly, you are clueless about what really matters in the real world and create false equivalencies that anyone with half a brain can spot from a mile away.
Why are you so afraid to talk about UA's inferior 757 product or the lack of even plans for a suite product - as DL approaches 60 widebodies with suites with doors and AA will get its first - sometime this year?
You don’t seem to know much about what generates revenue. But you also have no idea about delta profitability despite what delta tells you. Look at what delta says generates profits for them. It’s their monopoly hubs, it certainly isn’t their product. Reading isn’t tough. Delta says it.
You seem to want people to want to lower themselves to your pitiful level of idiotic responses
All the best. Tim, you’re the village idiot. That’s...
You don’t seem to know much about what generates revenue. But you also have no idea about delta profitability despite what delta tells you. Look at what delta says generates profits for them. It’s their monopoly hubs, it certainly isn’t their product. Reading isn’t tough. Delta says it.
You seem to want people to want to lower themselves to your pitiful level of idiotic responses
All the best. Tim, you’re the village idiot. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. Find your friends on comments. Have some kind of intelligent responses vs your pure idiocy. You post hoping everyone is an idiot like yourself.
Delta fired you. Delta does not respect you. I sure don’t.
Go back to your 6th margarita. Delta fired you for your drinking problem, among the other lacking intelligent synapses. I’ll let you bury yourself with your ignorance, as usual. It always gets better after 10p with you
While I really don't like shills for any airline, I find the cruel comments by some on this site deplorable. Have some common decency, folks, and get a life yourselves. As an aside, I have detested the 767 internationally, and 757 domestically, since they were launched. My nightmarish memories of flights from JFK to GRU and EZE aboard 767's can cause night sweats. Now my flights are to Europe, where there are better choices of better planes, and better carriers.
Saying that Delta is bad in these areas pretty much describes every airline in the US and Canada. You never know what’s going to disappoint. There is no one area that any of these airlines does well on a consistent basis. From what aircraft type to the FA’s nothing is consistent. Having said that, most generally I feel that Delta’s entire overall experience is often a little better than the others. It reflects in the numbers and opinion polls.
What frustrates me most about this isn't so much the subpar (aircraft) product because if it were simply that, then caveat emptor, but the bait and switch. I've booked 5 transatlantic flights in the last 3 years and 4 out of 5 of them (with one still future travel) have had 350s or 330neos swapped for 767s. From there, Delta's reaction typically is "both are Delta One." I honestly think this is a strategy of...
What frustrates me most about this isn't so much the subpar (aircraft) product because if it were simply that, then caveat emptor, but the bait and switch. I've booked 5 transatlantic flights in the last 3 years and 4 out of 5 of them (with one still future travel) have had 350s or 330neos swapped for 767s. From there, Delta's reaction typically is "both are Delta One." I honestly think this is a strategy of theirs - market a suite and swap it for lesser equipment. The rest of the inconsistent experience (cheap "champagne," lazy food) just reinforces the idea that once they have the money you paid for the fare they marketed you, they don't care about following through with providing it.
I had the largely same experience when flying on DL's 767-400 from CDG to JFK two days ago. The seat was hard and cramped even for my 5' 8" frame (granted I have broad shoulders). I was surprised when lunch was served all on one tray despite the 8.5 hour flight - and that Delta was serving "corn soup" and one piece of pinkish-grey shrimp as a starter on such a premium route (I wouldn't...
I had the largely same experience when flying on DL's 767-400 from CDG to JFK two days ago. The seat was hard and cramped even for my 5' 8" frame (granted I have broad shoulders). I was surprised when lunch was served all on one tray despite the 8.5 hour flight - and that Delta was serving "corn soup" and one piece of pinkish-grey shrimp as a starter on such a premium route (I wouldn't even expect something so basic in Polaris).
Possibly most shocking was the state of the Air France lounge in CDG's Terminal 2E, Hall K - where DL's flights primarily depart from - which is a total embarrassment. Outdated, dirty, cramped, crowded and hot. It was so disgusting that I spent my time in the terminal instead. The inability to access the far superior AF lounges in Halls L or M is such a shame.
The average fare price for this route is 1000 usd per segment. Frequent flyers qualify for complimentary upgrades and they have a significant amount of miles redemption. You certainly weren’t expecting Krug or Dom in o be poured, were you?
Also the radio of FA working business (Delta One) isn’t great . They have three fas working the cabin, one for the galley and one for each aisle.
@ Eric -- Of course I wasn't expecting Dom Perignon or Krug. But something a little more premium than Korbel isn't a totally unreasonable ask, no? Delta sells a vast majority of these seats, and few go to upgrades.
Regarding mileage redemptions, with SkyMiles being a revenue based program, isn't that supposed to be no different than paying cash? It's not like you can book these awards for 20K miles one-way. I mean, Delta...
@ Eric -- Of course I wasn't expecting Dom Perignon or Krug. But something a little more premium than Korbel isn't a totally unreasonable ask, no? Delta sells a vast majority of these seats, and few go to upgrades.
Regarding mileage redemptions, with SkyMiles being a revenue based program, isn't that supposed to be no different than paying cash? It's not like you can book these awards for 20K miles one-way. I mean, Delta generates billions per year from issuing miles. So I don't think a high percentage of mileage redemptions should be a reason to offer a watered down experience.
Ben, you are correct. But Airlines do see mile redemptions in premium cabins far from being their preferred method for selling premium seats. Specially when booked far in advance.
Transcon routes between the New York area and LAX, and certainly to SFO, are not as profitable as they were in the past.
On the United comparison here, just to note that United's new premium transcontinental product rolled out on January 6th, and it is excellent - very high quality wine selection comparable to what you would receive in International Polaris, and expanded dining options. It is also not cheaper fare-wise than AA or DL, and in fact I have found UA both at a higher price point and more frequently sold out than DL or AA. With...
On the United comparison here, just to note that United's new premium transcontinental product rolled out on January 6th, and it is excellent - very high quality wine selection comparable to what you would receive in International Polaris, and expanded dining options. It is also not cheaper fare-wise than AA or DL, and in fact I have found UA both at a higher price point and more frequently sold out than DL or AA. With UA it is very hard to get a last minute seat SFO/LAXEWR in the 10 days prior to departure.
@ pablo-sfo -- I'm happy to hear United has rolled out an improved soft product! When it comes to pricing, United's entry level business class pricing on EWR-LAX is $768 one-way, while Delta's is $1,300 one-way. So while pricing may be similar closer to departure, it's possible to get a much lower price on United.
Also, forgot to add, why is the curtained area (presumably crew rest for the cockpit crew) right in the middle of the cabin. Looks distracting. Why wouldn't they have it in either the first or then last row?
The pilots pick the location of the rest seat. It is located in the middle of the cabin because of the lower noise level.
Interesting and I agree that there are some hit and miss elements to the premium experience including the inexplicably HARD seat.
But the only true apples to apples comparison within the US big 3 (hard product wise at least) is the United 767s, which are vastly superior.
The 767 isn't ideal for the big fancy new premium cabin layouts- but it retains its role as the only true "mid-size" aircraft.
and yet UA doesn't use its 767s predominantly on domestic flights.
and on international flights where DL uses the 767s, UA uses 757s which have an inferior product to DL.
and I believe part of DL's product upgrade across its fleet is to add mattress pads to all aircraft types. It will help on the 767s.
And even some other US airlines that offer mattress pads, they are on request and not always one for...
and yet UA doesn't use its 767s predominantly on domestic flights.
and on international flights where DL uses the 767s, UA uses 757s which have an inferior product to DL.
and I believe part of DL's product upgrade across its fleet is to add mattress pads to all aircraft types. It will help on the 767s.
And even some other US airlines that offer mattress pads, they are on request and not always one for every passenger.
and let's keep in mind that AA got rid of its 767s and has a much smaller international network than DL.
and when AA got rid of 767-200s on its transcons, DL jumped in and eventually went with an almost all 767 domestic widebody fleet - and DL is now flying millions of pounds of domestic cargo that neither AA or B6 can carry on their narrowbodies.
just like the L1011s, the 767 will leave the DL fleet in time. IN the meantime, DL is getting more new widebodies than AA or UA and is retiring older widebodies, something AA and UA cannot do given the slow rate of 787 deliveries.
Do you realize that your bloviating likely ends up making Delta look worse, not better?
Why should I care they can carry cargo? I care about my own comfort.
I asked ChatGPT to role-play as a Delta airline fanboy, and she sounds suspiciously like Tim Dunn.
This is one of the worst premium cabin seats I have ever been on in my life. Outside of a non lie flat seat, this is the worst seat of them all. Flew on the red eye from OGG-SLC, and never again. I am 6’ tall and it was just miserable in the terms of width and length. The Sky Club in SLC was amazing, however.
On a recent SCL-ATL flight, the delta one was 2-2-2 for close to $10k and it was full . As good as their upkeep of the planes is, their hard product is so underwhelming
and you got one of what was just 9 ex-Latam aircraft. The soft covers have been replaced but DL knew it would take 3 years to reconfigure those aircraft - and that is now happening.
By the end of the summer, there are just a couple 35Ls left in service.
and, again, this was the way they were configured for Latam, and TAM before.
finding the 5% of the fleet that is the exception might have been significant to you but the 35Ls were and still are the exception.
"but DL knew it would take 3 years to reconfigure those aircraft - and that is now happening."
So since they knew that in 2019 when they agreed to take over the birds. What happened? It's 2025. Are you suggesting Delta is 3 years behind on their supply chains ENTIRELY due to covid? Wow. Delta must be worse than Boeing...
Delta chose to put subpar product in their network. They're choosing to keep it for all of 2025.
Delta took delivery of the aircraft in 2021.
AA's 321Ts are falling apart. AA can't get close to reliable estimates to refurbish its 777Ws.
B6 service has deteriorated. Ben just found out.
UA has nothing that is world class other than its ego
and you harp endlessly because you can't stand to admit that no other US airline is anywhere close to DL in either customer service or financial performance.
get lost, woman.
AA's 77Ws and A321Ts have better products right now than anything DL offers, and they are replacing those. How sad is that for DL Tim?
“Get lost woman”.
Can you please elaborate on why you were banned from the aviation community and fired by Delta ?
".... nothing that is world class other than its ego"
Doth protest to much ?
Thank you for the omission admitting that yes. Delta has known these birds were coming for 6 years but they've done nothing to improve the product or done ANYTHING to work on their supply chains.
Per You, Tim. It takes them 3 years to plan to get them a decent product. It's 2025. Delta knew about this in 2019. You can whine about JetBlue all you want. It doesn't change your own trap you just...
Thank you for the omission admitting that yes. Delta has known these birds were coming for 6 years but they've done nothing to improve the product or done ANYTHING to work on their supply chains.
Per You, Tim. It takes them 3 years to plan to get them a decent product. It's 2025. Delta knew about this in 2019. You can whine about JetBlue all you want. It doesn't change your own trap you just laid for yourself.
But again... you attempt (fairly poorly, as well) to misdirect to an A321T product that is miles ahead of the DL A359 LATAM product. :)
And you've just admitted that delta is, at least, 3 years behind, on their LATAM A350 retrofits yet seem to be going after 77W at AA, a product that is ALREADY all aisle access, unlike these Delta A350s. The AA 77W also has wifi and has for a decade+. Something the Delta A359L birds haven't ever had and still don't despite the fact that it's about a 2 week maintenance trip. Delta just didn't think 2 weeks out of service was worth wifi for 16 hours trips. And everyone knows why AA is delaying the refurbished product: The 787s are delayed.
Yet that still doesnt' explain why delta has had 6 YEARS TO GET the A359s to a product standard from a decade ago.
Get lost, Loser. You need some perspective.
Funny and interesting review, with some points you definitely can't argue with. I remember being on one of the first 767-400 remodeled flights, from ZHR, and I was disappointed at how hard the seats were and how narrow they were on the shoulder (I have broad shoulders, so this is a pain point for me). But this was in 2019, and back then Delta had stronger alcohol/food offerings on that route (though I think they...
Funny and interesting review, with some points you definitely can't argue with. I remember being on one of the first 767-400 remodeled flights, from ZHR, and I was disappointed at how hard the seats were and how narrow they were on the shoulder (I have broad shoulders, so this is a pain point for me). But this was in 2019, and back then Delta had stronger alcohol/food offerings on that route (though I think they have brought a lot of it back as the pandemic cuts have been phased out).
Here is the deal - Delta inconsistently offers things like menus and coursed service on transcontinental Delta One flights. And they do need to do stuff like improve the quality of the wines - which I think they have plans to do. But Delta's transcon success seems to indicate the market values a few things...
- Lounge access
- A big schedule
- Good service
- Operational reliability
They deliver on all of that in the transcon market. Now let's compare to the competition
- United doesn't do "premium transcons" in any meaningful way
- JetBlue Mint is a good onboard product, but with perceived reliability issues and no ground service. JetBlue can't consistently get pricing on a lot of its mint routes, which is a problem. Also, I would remark that JetBlue's food, while sometimes better than Delta, isn't knock your socks off.
- American, with the A321T, coursed menus, first class, etc, actually had the best transcon product for a number of years. And they still have good service in terms of the coursed meals. But they have basically de-emphasized, cut and abandoned the product. The aircraft switch will likely lead to cuts, they are now outclassed in lounges by Delta, and don't seem to have plans to try to compete.
In terms of Delta One branding in general, you need to take longer flights on the A350, A330-900, etc - some of Delta's newer and better planes. The service standard, meal cadence, etc is different for these flights than Delta One transcon flights. And that makes sense - the flights are longer, the flights cost more, so you get more service. I think it is unrealistic to expect the same service standard on a sub 5 hour LAX to JFK flight as you would get on a 8 or 9 hour ATL to MXP flight or something. Domestically, most passengers seem to be very happy with D1 on the 767 flights. In terms of alcohol, stick with the beer and mixed drink selection (Woodford) if you really care
That wine is double the price of the Cook's and Andre that Delta has previously been caught serving. But yeah, that Italian sparkling wine is SO CHEAP that it can't even be called prosecco .
I'm guessing it's not Andre Jacquart champagne you're talking about?
@ FNT Delta Diamond -- I think you're not keeping up with inflation! Both Andre and Cook's now retail for $8 per bottle, minimum!
Delta serving all the food at once is aimed at giving flight attendants less work to do. Delta doesn't want their FAs to unionize.
The entrees on D1 are not just "more of a domestic meal selection," they are often identical. For example, looking from SEA to CDG and SEA to LAX next Monday, two of the three options are the same (using the Delta menu website). Starters, desserts, and wine selection will be different.
How would you rank the four airlines for each use case:
1. Day time flight traveling for business
2. Red eye
3. Leisure trip
ChatGPTim would say:
How would you rank the four airlines for each use case:
1. Day time flight traveling for business
#1 Delta
#2 Delta
#3 Delta
#4 Delta
2. Red eye
#1 Delta
#2 Delta
#3 Delta
#4 Delta
3. Leisure trip
#1 Delta
#2 Delta
#3 Delta
#4 Delta
@ Alec -- It all depends on how much time I'd plan to spend at the lounges. If we're comparing business class, then I'd probably still choose Delta in all cases, because the lounges are that good. I'd just eat and drink on both ends, and use the Wi-Fi and maybe nap onboard.
Just got off an itinerary LAX-SEA-TPE in F & Delta One. Really loved the upscale DL1 lounge in LAX. The a339neo is better than either 767 seat, but the seat was still really hard. Thankfully, for that length of flight, they give you a mattress topper.
It’s sad that delta only offers a single tray service in DL One on transcon… but that’s par for the course for them considering it’s all they offer...
Just got off an itinerary LAX-SEA-TPE in F & Delta One. Really loved the upscale DL1 lounge in LAX. The a339neo is better than either 767 seat, but the seat was still really hard. Thankfully, for that length of flight, they give you a mattress topper.
It’s sad that delta only offers a single tray service in DL One on transcon… but that’s par for the course for them considering it’s all they offer for a 13+ hour flight that leaves at prime dinner time! Those flights also offer standard domestic first class meals. I’ve been offered the same meatballs on countless domestic F flights for years as well as SEA-TPE and LAX-SYD. sure, they’re tasty, but at least elevate them a little! All this to say, Your transon experience is pretty much the exact same as their longest international routes, with exception of the mattress topper . As a DL diamond medallion who usually travels internationally on partner airlines, all I have to say is… Step it up, Delta.
valid comments but you are aware that DL is in the process of reworking its Delta One service and it is certain that it will include domestic D1 service - although the focus might be on longhaul international flights.
it's interesting that you had single tray service to TPE. I have had the usual multi-course service on DL flights from eastern US hubs to Asia so the disconnect is interesting.
The 330NEO is a very...
valid comments but you are aware that DL is in the process of reworking its Delta One service and it is certain that it will include domestic D1 service - although the focus might be on longhaul international flights.
it's interesting that you had single tray service to TPE. I have had the usual multi-course service on DL flights from eastern US hubs to Asia so the disconnect is interesting.
The 330NEO is a very fine plane but it is most notable that nearly all TPAC flights will be 350s by the end of the year. and for all the commentary about the width of cabins, the 350 is wider than the 787 and Ben has noted the DL 1 product on the 350 is solid. only the 777 is wider than the 350 but the 777s burn much more fuel.
non sense
Looks pretty premium to me!
as objective and accurate as Ben was in his assessment of the Delta One lounges, this article is why Ben is completely incapable of understanding the concept that ALL US airlines are businesses. They have to meet all kinds of objectives but they understand how best to meet all objectives.
first, the 767 was the first high production small twin. It wasn't until Airbus got serious about the A330 that it displaced the 767. The...
as objective and accurate as Ben was in his assessment of the Delta One lounges, this article is why Ben is completely incapable of understanding the concept that ALL US airlines are businesses. They have to meet all kinds of objectives but they understand how best to meet all objectives.
first, the 767 was the first high production small twin. It wasn't until Airbus got serious about the A330 that it displaced the 767. The 767 is a small widebody and with it a narrow cabin compared to new generation aircraft.
Delta years ago decided the 767s would leave the fleet in the latter half of this decade.
All the talk about how much better other aircraft are has to be taken in the context of Boeing's massive delivery delays including with the 787. Airlines have no choice but to keep aircraft in service they would rather not use.
DL also has said that it will minimize its use of the 767s to routes where larger widebodies don't work including based on economics.
and the biggest factor is that, despite what Ben thinks about product, there is ample evidence that DL's 767s get market average or better average fares which precisely shows that DL is using its fleet where it is economically justifiable to do so and not just to produce a product that is not economically or marketing competitive.
and let's also REALLY look at the competitive situation.
UA does not serve JFK despite knocking itself silly trying to reverse the decision of previous execs to leave JFK.
Even from EWR, they do use 757s on many flights - as well as across the Atlantic. Those planes don't have direct aisle access from every seat in business class and also have narrower seats than the 767 throughout the cabin.
AA uses aged 321s that are falling apart and will be removed from service and never were economically viable
B6 has low flight attendant staffing, locks its Mint cabin doors open, and does not get the average fares that AA or DL gets.... the premium cabin market does not choose B6.
so, yes, DL has to improve its product but it is in line or better than the competition.
Yeah, agree. Delta doesn't seem to be having issues filling these planes at often very high fares. Would $75 champs be nice? Sure. But what's the business case for that?
They could $17 Chandon or Mumm sparkling wine.
@ NSS -- This post isn't about airline stock prices or the bottom line, it's about passenger experience. I guess to expand on your argument, Delta also had no issues filling these seats before Delta One Lounges were opened. So why bother offering access to them?
11 paragraphs and counting despite saying Ben was objective and calls a spade a spade yesterday.
Tim, this is why ALWAYS speaking in absolute terms rarely works for anyone, especially you since you generally misuse data you don't understand.
No doubt, a long day ahead for you. Delta does some things well, some things poorly. the 767 just shouldn't be worth defending a company that fired you in exchange for your dignity.
I think it's worth noting, however, that UA, recognizing the narrow fuselage of the 767, installed Polaris in 1-1-1, which DL certainly could have done but chose not to.
I know everyone says this, but I really don't understand why JFK is seen as more desirable than EWR - I find them to be comparably convenient (at least from Midtown or Downtown).
I was just having this discussion with a friend.
Convenience wise, yes I agree- they are comparable in terms of options, cost and time to get to/from there. JFK is seen- fairly or not- as more premium given that a far greater selection of international airlines fly there. Newark provides a bevvy of options if you're flying United but less so with other carriers. The B terminals with their satellites are also very constrained with space.
As a passenger, I don't care about the history of the 767, I don't care that Delta plans to retire them in an undisclosed amount of years, I don't care about Boeing delivery issues - and 99.99% of passengers do not care about any of this. I care about what I'm going to fly on my immediate travel plans, and those planes are not comfortable in D1/First class, so I will fly something else more...
As a passenger, I don't care about the history of the 767, I don't care that Delta plans to retire them in an undisclosed amount of years, I don't care about Boeing delivery issues - and 99.99% of passengers do not care about any of this. I care about what I'm going to fly on my immediate travel plans, and those planes are not comfortable in D1/First class, so I will fly something else more comfortable whenever possible. For TATL, the options are endless.
And your point about JFK/EWR is not really relevant for a lot of NYC based people like me, since both airports are just as annoying to get to from most of the city it's rarely a deal breaker.
Also funny how you conveniently completely ignore the food/beverage situation.
Hahahahahahahaha! Crybaby Dunn strikes again!
And in a stunning display of mental acrobatics, Tim Dunn stuck the landing as he dramatically dismounts the pommel (beating a dead) horse. A true master of twisting logic and tumbling through arguments, folks. Give that man a medal!!!
Posters like you are WORSE than the original.
NSS gets it and others can't stand to admit that I am right. Anthony above gets it.
The market doesn't support the level of support on transcons that exists on DL's widebody longhaul flights.
DL's competitive positioning on flights where the 767 operates is strong and that is provable.
JFK IS where the largest volume of NYC industry transon passengers fly. It doesn't matter where someone else is....and UA is trying to get back to...
NSS gets it and others can't stand to admit that I am right. Anthony above gets it.
The market doesn't support the level of support on transcons that exists on DL's widebody longhaul flights.
DL's competitive positioning on flights where the 767 operates is strong and that is provable.
JFK IS where the largest volume of NYC industry transon passengers fly. It doesn't matter where someone else is....and UA is trying to get back to JFK precisely because they are in the smaller part of the transcon market.
UA did put a better business class product on the 767 but, because of consistency, has a markedly inferior product on their 787s and 777s. The Delta 767s will be off of international routes in a few years. United has precisely ZERO widebody aircraft that have suites with doors and it is ironic that the airline that operates one of the largest widebody fleets in the world will likely debut suites with doors on a narrowbody aircraft.
What do 787 delivery delays have to do with DL and their 767 retirement when they don't have any on order and in fact cancelled the order they inherited from NW. Delta has been pivoting towards airbus for years with the A330neo, A321 ceo/neo. Hell they even ordered A330ceos early on post merger. I'll leave the A220 out of it since it was Bombardier at the time of order.
New Tim Dunn bingo card phrase
"ALL US airlines are businesses."
where have you been?
I have been saying that for years - because it is true.
none of them are here to dazzle you if they can't make money doing it. same for hotels and a whole lot of other businesses.
Youre so nauseating. Do you have delta tatooed on your ass or something?
Airline has crap, substandard plane means that plane should be avoided
Business class might be narrow, but economy on a 767 is probably the best (not counting JAL). 2-3-2 is hard to beat in the back of the bus.
Even better is the 2-2-2 in Premium, esp. aisle access in the middle seats. But overall the 767 sucks and I wish DL retires it early.
Time for US airlines to consider buying Chinese built planes. At least they would get delivered.
$9.99 champagne... No wonder Delta is the most profitable airline in the world.
I fly transcon multiple times each year. While Delta has the superior ground experience, for me, AA's Flagship First is the superior in-flight experience. As dated as the T-Birds are, for me, the seats are better. As much as some complain about AA, I've always had excellent service and the food (other than the beef) has been quite good. Given what I've seen about the XLRs, I don't think my opinion will change. Others might differ.
To be fair, if Delta were to move to a Super Diamond type seat and commit to better catering, I'd give them a go. But, given what Ben noted about the recent cabin refresh with the existing seats, I don't see it happening.
UNITED upped its game on transcon wine and food, as well as international. Delta falling behind on that front in Delta ONE - especially the poor wines.
Strange. I just flew this exact route 5 days ago and had printed menus and also a different brand of actual champagne.
Same on DCA-LAX Delta One - had a printed menu and higher end wine
Did several LAX-JFK D1 flights in 2024, and I too thought the wines were better than domestic First; seeing a Jordan vineyard red was very nice as were some Italian reds. I also like that they serve San Pellegrino sparkling water in D1.
One suggestion for Ben is to pre-order via the app or website until 24 hours before departure; there are often 1 or 2 special options that won't be offered aboard. From...
Did several LAX-JFK D1 flights in 2024, and I too thought the wines were better than domestic First; seeing a Jordan vineyard red was very nice as were some Italian reds. I also like that they serve San Pellegrino sparkling water in D1.
One suggestion for Ben is to pre-order via the app or website until 24 hours before departure; there are often 1 or 2 special options that won't be offered aboard. From LAX they are via Jon & Vinny's Caramelized Productions and from JFK they are via Union Square Hospitality.
Sure, having all the courses on one try is not as premium as Delta makes things, but with the wonderful D1 lounges on both ends, I think the food matters less and they should focus on premium cocktails. Delta can for sure up their game on booze, and heck not all flights even have limes.
I fly JFK-SFO RT frequently and same, it has printed menus and actual champagne. Although agree with Ben, it is standard domestic fare (have had some of the exact same meals on short A220 flights). Outbound there are usually a couple of "transcon" exclusive meals for preorder, but they are all a far cry from Delta One Do&Co long-haul menus.
ok time to guess his comment. my guess:
"Well Ben it's actually ridiculous that you would compare the 767 to the other domestic airlines 777 when DL has invested so heavily in replacing their fleet with A350's that will offer superior fuel economics and range and PROFITABILITY to DL so maybe include that in your article hmmm??? Also that lasagna looks PREMIUM as hell so be grateful"
“Ben once again goes out of his way just to fly a plane he knows it’s an embarrassment. Even though I have been banned from pretty much every aviation related website out there, somewhere in my sick head I still think that writing 10 paragraphs of my DL fetish counts as arguing.”
He lives in your head rent free
@Wootles. He's just a joke and a laughing stock. It's not a surprise someone would try to predict the world's biggest delta propaganda joker before he starts his normal rant against Ben for daring to question Delta.
Frankly, this website would be a better place with Tim's 100 paragraphs of nonsense replaced by 4 jokes about the nonsense.
@Julie: He is living in your head rent free too
Jan, not another Tim Dunn username pretending to be someone else?!
@Harold: Reading your comment, I strongly suggest that you should stop letting people live rent free in your head.
add Julie to that list.
There are people that participate in this forum that are ONLY here to trash other people.
I've battled mental midgets like this for my decades of online presence.
It all stems from the fact that they can't stand to admit that "their team" isn't winning and someone else's is.
In the words of the resident King Edward Bastian court jester:
“"Ben is pretty objective and calls spades as spades."”
Couldn’t agree more.
I'm 6'2" with a broad build and have never had an issue on the 767-400, the 767-300 on the other hand...
You're giving our Delta fanboy some real emotional whiplash between the lounge review and this one :D . I really wish I could fly Delta more often but the almost impossible to avoid 767 - at least on the routes I fly the most - is a hard pass, especially when I have a good amount of other options usually. Annoying when I'm trying to be loyal to Skyteam. They really really need to stop flying these.
While I would argue that DL has some of the best transcon & international service (from my experience of the big 3), I personally would rather take United Polaris or American Flagship as their hard products are much more comfortable. Especially for someone over 6 feet and with larger legs/feet.
Average skyteam experience
Not that it makes a tremendous difference, but the armrest closer to the window can be lowered, which makes the seat a couple inches wider.
I would be more interested in the taste of a drink the in the price. The champagne in QR first was not my cup of tea, but probably retails for over USD100 a bottle.
The best champagne is the one that tastes good...to YOU. I find it funny when Ben does cosplay as a sommelier. I agree, though, sub-$10 for sparkling wine is pretty pathetic of DL, but Ben's opinions of champagne seem to be limited to what's served in the air. I'd be more impressed if he were to tell us what he actually likes or if he even drinks champs on the ground. Veuve is like the...
The best champagne is the one that tastes good...to YOU. I find it funny when Ben does cosplay as a sommelier. I agree, though, sub-$10 for sparkling wine is pretty pathetic of DL, but Ben's opinions of champagne seem to be limited to what's served in the air. I'd be more impressed if he were to tell us what he actually likes or if he even drinks champs on the ground. Veuve is like the Budweiser of "nice" champagnes but it's typically priced higher than a lot of better champagnes. All relative/subjective, of course, but mentioning the price and not the taste is junior varsity.
Well this isn't even champagne so once you learn that distinction, you can move up to junior varsity
"...and two-thirds of them are the 767-300ER, which have a much worse hard product."
I flew the 767-300 D1 SFO-JFK in December, and one thing that just stood out to me is that everyone had their coats on their laps or on the table the entire flight. Does DL not have closets on the -300? Were there just too many coats on my flight?
And yeah, DL has great lounges, however the 767s are an embarrassment.
Delta does have closets on the 767-300. With coat collection, I have found
1) Flight attendants inconsistently gather them
2) When flight attendants offer to gather them, passengers inconsistently give them to the attendants