A couple of nights ago, I had a hilarious travel related conversation with our three-year-old son while putting him to bed, which made me realize something. Let me first share what happened, and then some background to prove that I’m not an out-of-touch monster (or at least don’t intend to be)…
In this post:
The hilarious conversation I had with our son
A couple of nights ago, I was putting our three-year-old son, Miles, to bed. We usually read a few books, and then I “fake” fall asleep next to him until he’s asleep, and then I quietly exit.
On this particular evening, he was incredibly chatty, in the most hilarious way, so we spent more time talking rather than reading. He’s off from preschool right now for the holidays, so his schedule doesn’t matter as much as usual, and frankly, I was really enjoying our conversation.
We’re going to take him skiing soon for the first time, and before trips, I always try to talk to him about what to expect, so he can anticipate it and be prepared. He’s at the age now where he comprehends things, so I find that consistently talking to him about travel in advance helps.
So I was explaining how we were going skiing, and how it would involve taking a pretty long flight. For what it’s worth, up until this point, we’ve never had an explicit conversation about airport lounges, first or business class, etc. So with that in mind, here’s how our conversation went from there (and this is a direct transcript, because after he started being hilarious, I just started recording)…
Miles: “On the plane, are we going to sit in the big seats or the smaller seats?”
Me: “Oh… I’m not sure, we’ll see.” (I haven’t 100% committed to our flights, and now that I realize he’s paying attention, maybe it should be the “smaller seats!”)
Miles: “Are they going to serve food and snacks on the plane?”
Me: “Probably. Do you want to eat on the plane?”
Miles: “No… only in the lounge! Just in the lounge I can eat something!”
Me: “Hah… what do you want to eat in the lounge?”
Miles: “I need to see what they have in the lounge. When I can see what they have in the lounge, then I can eat it!”
This conversation was just hilarious to me, because never before had there been any deliberate discussion about different airplane seats, airport facilities, etc.
He’s at the age where we need to be more deliberate
It’s funny how fast time flies when you’re a parent. We’ve massively increased our travel with Miles as time has gone on.
When he was really young, we just didn’t think he’d get anything out of travel, and was more comfortable, happier, and healthier, at home. After all, we have loving family that is happy to stay with him, and simply dragging him onto planes and to hotels doesn’t do much to widen a one-year-old’s horizons, in my opinion (though I have huge respect for those who travel extensively with infants).
But it’s clear, particularly in the last six months, that he’s starting to notice everything, and you can tell based on the questions he asks, and the observations he makes.
It’s funny, because when we flew with Miles when he was around one year old, I didn’t feel like I had to think much about what cabin we flew in, or how he would perceive that, since I didn’t think he really noticed in a meaningful way (or at least wasn’t able to express that to us).
But the above commentary really makes me realize he notices everything, which is the first time it has been so apparent to me on the travel front. To be clear, it’s not like I’m dropping a fortune when we fly first class with Miles. Generally, my approach is one of the following:
- If it’s just me or Ford flying with Miles, we’ll often book first class, since it’s convenient to have two seats next to one another, without a seat mate
- If all three of us are traveling together, we’ll often book extra legroom economy, and then just all sit next to one another, with Miles in the middle
- The reality is that a majority of our first class flights are simply booked with Alaska Atmos Rewards points on American, so I’m typically paying a small amount for the added comfort; it’s not like I’m carelessly dropping a fortune on these flights
While I don’t want to adopt an “all economy” policy when flying with him, I certainly don’t want our kids growing up thinking that only first class exists. So now that I’ve come to terms with this, I’ll also make an effort to fly more in economy with him, and also to give some premium economy flights a try when traveling long haul (which will make for interesting reviews as well).
In fairness, I do think that premium travel has been democratized to the point that both domestic first class and lounge access aren’t the unattainable-seeming luxuries they used to be. I’m certainly getting us into first class and into lounges at an affordable cost.
For that matter, given that there are literally long lines to get into many airport lounges nowadays, they’re almost definitionally not exclusive, and they’ve almost turned into discounted airport restaurants for those who prefer to pay yearly rather than per meal. Nowadays it’s more like “who are these ballers paying $25 for an omelet at an airport restaurant, rather than waiting in line to eat at the lounge?” 😉
Anyway, I’d be curious to hear from other parents on this. It’s amazing how quickly kids grow up, and I was always wondering at what age kids start sharing travel observations that make you realize that they’re really paying attention. For Miles, a little over three years old has definitely been a turning point on that front, which makes me realize we need to be very deliberate.
Bottom line
It’s incredible how quickly kids grow up. We’ve been greatly increasing the amount we’ve been traveling with our older son in recent times, and I feel like at three years old, he finally turned a corner in terms of both observing things, and communicating what he observes.
A couple of nights ago we had a conversation about a future flight, where Miles asked if he’d be flying in the bigger seats or smaller seats, and also indicated his preference to eat in the lounge. Okay, he’s definitely noticing things, so that’s something I need to keep in mind going forward!
Anyone else with kids remember the first time that they made an observation about flying that caught you off guard?
Consider that children do not have a concept of money until later
I’d love some premium economy reviews!
Definitely looking forward to the Lucky take on non-first/biz seats on international flights! I think such reviews will be especially pertinent to those readers with kids, or those who for whatever reason are unable to sit in first/biz on those flights.
The (class) struggle is real.
When I was 10 years old and traveling with my family in coach on a Northwest Orient Boeing 727-100, I "self upgraded" to First and the only pax sitting there. The F/A was delighted to have me and I have been hooked on Row 2 lo these decades later. I think Miles will be as well.
Happy New Year !
When my son was three years old, we checked in to the Mandarin Orient hotel in Singapore. While we are unpacking, he picked up the telephone next to the bed. I asked him what he was doing, and he confidently said, "I'm calling for room service." I'll never forget that and yes, kids are more observant than you think at that age!
puchski1, this is not a personal put down so please do not take offence. Locally there is a saying ….
“From the street one might look up to the Mandarin, but from Raffles one looks down on it”
Just some local banter added for interest, as it is applied to most high rise buildings in Singapore. One hopes that your son enjoyed his stay in Singapore.
A number of years ago my oldest decided that he wanted to come home from college for thanksgiving at the last minute. First class was only slightly more expensive. So I bought him first class. He arrived home and announced that he was unimpressed with the F experience. Needless to say, I never bought him another first class ticket. While his younger brother (they're six years apart) was still traveling with me and was always...
A number of years ago my oldest decided that he wanted to come home from college for thanksgiving at the last minute. First class was only slightly more expensive. So I bought him first class. He arrived home and announced that he was unimpressed with the F experience. Needless to say, I never bought him another first class ticket. While his younger brother (they're six years apart) was still traveling with me and was always appreciative when we were able to upgrade. I will still occasionally buy him a trip in first.
Baby boomer parent here (Lifetime Marriott Titanium) with millennial children:
We were at the Rolex 24 at the Daytona International Speedway a few years ago and had to stay at a Comfort Inn for 1 night.
I told my millennial son, who is used to Concierge(Executive) Lounges, that this is how the other 50 percent stays overnight.
He looked at me and said, "No Dad, this is how the other 99 percent stays overnight"...
When my son was 10ish, we were in one of the Cathay lounges in Hong Kong. He said, "my phone automatically connected to the Wi-Fi, is that bad?". Yes
Same thing happened in London. Bad. Ha
Is a 10 yo having a phone now a thing? No kids, no frame of reference.
I don’t have kids and I never will (cancer) but this post made me smile from ear to ear. Kids notice so much more than we give them credit for.
Firstly, more of this please, it's wonderful!!
Our son just turned five and though he hasn't made a flight related statement that has truly surprised us, my husband jokes that I brainwashed him because I would frequently drive out to the Udvar-Hazy center and wander around with him (we live in DC). I guess it "worked" as my kid loves airplanes!
Regardless of where you’re sitting in the plane, it feels good to see your grade school age kid say hi to the flight attendant when boarding, locate their seat, stow their personal item and confidently settle in for a long flight. I think getting there means starting them early and suffering through some less than awesome flights when they’re Miles’ age. Worth it though.
Be considerate, leave the child home. Most travelers don't want to fly business or be in a lounge with someone else's child.
You are not entitled to a child free space just because you don't like children. If it bothers you so much fly private.
I don't want to be in a lounge or on a plane near an unruly child. I imagine that Miles rarely, if ever, fits that description. And, he seems to have parents that care about making the experience good for all.
Speak for yourself @Steve Jacoby. I loved traveling with my kids and look forward to traveling with my grandkids. They deserve to see the world too and most are well behaved - often better behaved than adults.
As much as we tried to keep the boys on an eating schedule at home by avoiding unscheduled snacks, which were really just meals for when they were too young to make it between it between regular adult means, that was more difficult the days we were flying, particularly when it was intercontinental with a substantial change of time zones. Most flights eastward from the west coast leave at night so for anyone, but especially...
As much as we tried to keep the boys on an eating schedule at home by avoiding unscheduled snacks, which were really just meals for when they were too young to make it between it between regular adult means, that was more difficult the days we were flying, particularly when it was intercontinental with a substantial change of time zones. Most flights eastward from the west coast leave at night so for anyone, but especially kids, the best thing is to eat at the normal time, which is often before boarding, then read or watch some videos just enough that you're ready to sleep.
It's great that Miles is beginning to express agency. Everything is easier once a child begins the process of making their own decisions. One of the best pieces of advice we got regarding that was to start with A/B decisions making such as "would you like to wear this shirt today or this one" which can be built upon to where you are making "would you like to eat in the lounge or on the airplane."
Good decision making is essential to a fulfilling life but decision making requires skill that comes from practice. The Montessori school our kids attended focused on this and I'd say its not only one of the most important things they learned but something that can start at a very young age.
What about loading the kids into a (rented) minivan and doing a 2-day drive somewhere? Packing sandwiches in a cooler and sitting down in a rest area picnic table to eat? Spending the night at a road-side motel?
I'm only half-joking, by the way. This was my experience growing up. And as a kid, it was exciting and I loved every minute of it.
2 and a half for us. And be careful with the skiing trip, because that was the turn for our friends' kid having a preference for much more luxury vacations.
Not caught off guard... but mine used to talk constantly about the plane and their fascination with it, how something so big was able to fly, with clouds and how we could fly through them, why clouds were different shapes/sizes and so on, from a similar age.
Not an aviation experience but train travel in the UK.
For long distance we used to travel mainly first class but one day we traveled standard class and my eldest asked 'Dad why are there so many seats in here?' I had to laugh! He wasn't too happy there was no lounge access either but a Starbucks chocolate coins solved that!
Now 15+ years later he still travels first when he can - I blame his dad!!!
Oh man, I'd be interested to hear about how your early conversations go trying to explain points to Miles. That ought to be fun :)
"Dad - why am I called Miles? "
"Well, son..."
I had those conversations as a natural extension of one about money which is part of the big picture of how people obtain things. "Mommy and daddy do things for people and people do things for us. To keep track of who's helping whom we have these little pieces of paper that we give each other."
Next thing you know they want to pay for stuff themselves when you go shopping and pretty soon they...
I had those conversations as a natural extension of one about money which is part of the big picture of how people obtain things. "Mommy and daddy do things for people and people do things for us. To keep track of who's helping whom we have these little pieces of paper that we give each other."
Next thing you know they want to pay for stuff themselves when you go shopping and pretty soon they realize its not just a piece of paper that gets stuff but the amount of paper and they starting asking "how much" about everything.
That leads to a conversation about value which leads to one about sales and discounts so its not a leap to talking about miles since those are just a kind of money and how they let you buy a big seat instead of a little one.
We as parents always think that we know best. Nowadays, apparently new parents gain their life experience from TikTok. However, my grandfather instilled into the children of my generation, “Do not try to reinvent the wheel”, if it is not broken then do not try to fix it!
My parents and I took grandfather at his word on many counts and practiced much of what he preached. ‘Ankle biters’, at mealtimes, are more controllable in...
We as parents always think that we know best. Nowadays, apparently new parents gain their life experience from TikTok. However, my grandfather instilled into the children of my generation, “Do not try to reinvent the wheel”, if it is not broken then do not try to fix it!
My parents and I took grandfather at his word on many counts and practiced much of what he preached. ‘Ankle biters’, at mealtimes, are more controllable in a restaurant environment than in the confines of an aircraft cabin. As children, our meals were take before boarding. Appropriate finger food was available during the flight. We repeated this practice with our ‘monsters’. When grown up they too repeated the practice with their own issue. Now my grandchildren are carrying on the motion with my great grandchildren.
Ben, if you read this you might just take note too.
When our boys were very young they shared watching videos together on one portable DVD player. Since their screen time was fairly restricted at home this was a great treat so flying was a privilege they understood required their best behavior.
Once they could read they'd bring a backpack full of books and keep themselves happily occupied even on extremely long 14+ hour flights.
Quite Steve, as a nine year old I once spent six hours entertaining the Captain and cockpit crew on a flight deck coming back from SIN. The Captain remarked to my parents that I might make a good pilot one day. My father replied that I was already a very good student and would be capable of solo flight soon …. I had to wait until I was 14 to be legal.
Kids are very adept at understanding what is expected of them, especially when they want something. Once they are old enough to process that disruptive behavior is going to have the opposite effect ("if you bother other people we aren't going to be able to go on airplanes anymore") so long as they have something that interests them unless they are sick or become exhausted they'll almost always do well.
Glad you were able to...
Kids are very adept at understanding what is expected of them, especially when they want something. Once they are old enough to process that disruptive behavior is going to have the opposite effect ("if you bother other people we aren't going to be able to go on airplanes anymore") so long as they have something that interests them unless they are sick or become exhausted they'll almost always do well.
Glad you were able to make it go both ways...with both you and the captain finding a way to relieve the boredom of a long flight.
We started flying with our first child when he was under a year old. This was when finding award space was easy so until they were in middle school it was a charmed life of two trips a year, mostly in First. I was worried they'd come to expect this but they are ages 24 and 25 now, have jobs, their own apartments and fly economy except when they're able snag a seat in business using the miles they've earned.
We go across the Atlantic once a year from the US. As a party of 3, going in J is not always doable but we've done it a few times with points. The bed helps with night flights but not always! On the way back we always sit in the back bc it's a day flight and it's hours and hours of TV anyway.
They learn early that eco plane food sucks. Get some at the airport.
Such a good travel blog news and information post...
Super cute post. Thanks for sharing
We try and fly in the pointy end for our long haul flights. When we traveled to Jamaica a while back ago, which doesn't require sitting in the pointy end for only a couple hours flight. Our daughter was trying to take a nap on the airplane and she asked "where's the button for the bed?" :).
So we didn't start flying regularly with my son until he was about Miles' age, but yes, that's about the point where he truly became aware of what was going on. I will say, he commandeered the window seat pretty much from day one, so lucky for you he's content with the middle...
As far as coach vs. business, we do a mix of both, BUT we've had the conversation that we can't take the...
So we didn't start flying regularly with my son until he was about Miles' age, but yes, that's about the point where he truly became aware of what was going on. I will say, he commandeered the window seat pretty much from day one, so lucky for you he's content with the middle...
As far as coach vs. business, we do a mix of both, BUT we've had the conversation that we can't take the "beeeeed seats" as he calls them all the time. He does get excited when he gets to sit up front, but he's perfectly fine sitting in coach. Making sure he understands that we're fortunate to be able to splurge once in a while, but that there is a balance has been key to me.
I remember getting the question "Will this plane have beds" from my kids when they were small. I wondered if I had spoiled them forever.
I didn't need to worry. They're older now, and have flown super long-hauls like SEA-DXB-CPT in Y with no complaints. Although they're ecstatic when "someone" somehow procures a transatlantic J seat for them on occasion...
Exactly my experience. My daughter (recently out of college) grew up flying all over the world in first and business class - all award tickets. I was also worried that we'd spoiled her. But she did also fly in economy, especially for shorter trips, and while she definitely appreciates the front cabin, she's fine with economy. In fact she loves airplanes and airports, to the point where she'll arrive hours early at the airport just...
Exactly my experience. My daughter (recently out of college) grew up flying all over the world in first and business class - all award tickets. I was also worried that we'd spoiled her. But she did also fly in economy, especially for shorter trips, and while she definitely appreciates the front cabin, she's fine with economy. In fact she loves airplanes and airports, to the point where she'll arrive hours early at the airport just so she can plane spot (even if she doesn't have lounge access, which, when she's on her own, she rarely does).
Don't sweat it. You're asking yourself the right questions and you'll impart the right values. And it often is better to eat in the lounge than on the plane! Your son is just speaking truth.
But this is why extra legroom economy is important. Extra legroom economy is amazing for families. AA is fumbling the ball with the new 787-P with only 18 MCE seats (they "downgraded" an upcoming flight from a 777 to the...
Don't sweat it. You're asking yourself the right questions and you'll impart the right values. And it often is better to eat in the lounge than on the plane! Your son is just speaking truth.
But this is why extra legroom economy is important. Extra legroom economy is amazing for families. AA is fumbling the ball with the new 787-P with only 18 MCE seats (they "downgraded" an upcoming flight from a 777 to the 787-P for me today and my 4 MCE seats turned into 3 with no notice, no apology, no nothing - I'll probably cancel and fly someone else). XLR is even worse with no MCE seats for families at all.
Delta and United are running in the opposite direction with their extra legroom offerings. Extra legroom economy encourages loyalty - it's often the best benefit of status, especially in an age where upgrades happen but are also often paid for.
I’m all about Peter’s Main Cabin Extra rants!
This is true. Extra legroom economy when you can take the whole row and put the armrests up is best bang for the buck for a family with a small kid.
Also good bang for the buck with a three year old - hitting the dollar store, buying a bag full of random toys they have never seen before, and then handing them out (in container, let the kid figure out how to open) every half hour or so while flying over the ocean. Good insurance policy when the iPad gets boring.
Amen. The lack of MCE on every recent retrofit is puzzling and frustrating.
This reminds me of a funny conversation with our daughter when she was about 2 1/2 years old. We were flying intra-europe business class, which was essentially an economy seat with the blocked middle. When I showed her to her seat, she said, "This isn't my seat. It's too small!"
When I insisted it was her seat, she looked up at me, puzzled, and said, "Where's the bed?" - because we had recently flown first class on the old Lufthansa 747s with the separate bed
Ben, as Miles will be learning to ski, this would be a good opportunity to learn it along with him. It will be more fun together! I learned skiing while I was an adult too and am glad I did.
I will be looking forward to your economy and premium economy reviews. BA PE is much better than LH PE, the differences can be significant.
Miles comment about to see the lounge food first is...
Ben, as Miles will be learning to ski, this would be a good opportunity to learn it along with him. It will be more fun together! I learned skiing while I was an adult too and am glad I did.
I will be looking forward to your economy and premium economy reviews. BA PE is much better than LH PE, the differences can be significant.
Miles comment about to see the lounge food first is quite relatable. Probably he already noticed the differences between the Admirals Club and the Flagship lounge.
My four year old nephew asked my why I was flying on Ethiopian Airlines even though I was going to India. That led to an age-appropriate explanation of the hub-and-spoke system complete with maps, etc.. Now he wonders why I don't fly to everywhere via Ethiopia since they have so many spokes. :)
@Sean M. - I grew up flying EK to Pakistan, which was where all of my international flights were too (aside from Canada) until I was about 15 or so. I always wanted to travel the world, but I dreaded the thought of flying long-haul economy on any airline other than Emirates. I ultimately had to get over my fear lol.
But as a kid, I would think about how I would rather fly to...
@Sean M. - I grew up flying EK to Pakistan, which was where all of my international flights were too (aside from Canada) until I was about 15 or so. I always wanted to travel the world, but I dreaded the thought of flying long-haul economy on any airline other than Emirates. I ultimately had to get over my fear lol.
But as a kid, I would think about how I would rather fly to Europe via DXB from the US on EK rather than a US airline. I guess this is why I found OMAAT lol
That’s a hilarious convo. Been scared to take our toddler to Europe but maybe it’s time now. My wife refuses to consider business for him even though we both fly it together.
If your kid is self-contained and can entertain him/herself for long periods (e.g., with an ipad or whatever), then business class is really much nicer for traveling with kids because you have so much more room. But if the kid is squirmy and/or needs constant attention to keep them calm and occupied, then economy is better because the seats are close enough to each other that you can interact with the kid whenever you need...
If your kid is self-contained and can entertain him/herself for long periods (e.g., with an ipad or whatever), then business class is really much nicer for traveling with kids because you have so much more room. But if the kid is squirmy and/or needs constant attention to keep them calm and occupied, then economy is better because the seats are close enough to each other that you can interact with the kid whenever you need to. In J, if the kid needs something and you can't get up to tend to it due to turbulence or landing or whatever, it can be a big problem.
We travelled with our kid in F and J since she was about 2 years old. We always made sure she had enough "distractions", as we called them, to keep her occupied - videos, books, video games, and other toys, always carefully selected and age appropriate. And when she was old enough, she'd get to choose what to bring.
Love this post - very relatable! We enjoy travel and, for long-haul, are typically fortunate to travel in Business. When our youngest was 3 we flew Emirates from London to Bangkok (both legs A380) and all enjoyed the on-board lounge / bar. On the return from Phuket (B777) we were a couple of hours into the flight and our 3 year old asked if we could get a juice from the bar. I told her...
Love this post - very relatable! We enjoy travel and, for long-haul, are typically fortunate to travel in Business. When our youngest was 3 we flew Emirates from London to Bangkok (both legs A380) and all enjoyed the on-board lounge / bar. On the return from Phuket (B777) we were a couple of hours into the flight and our 3 year old asked if we could get a juice from the bar. I told her that this plane didn’t have a bar, to which she very loudly replied “WHAAAT?!” and in that moment I knew we needed to be more balanced with our travel plans….!
@ Michael -- Hahahahahah!
Start 'em young!
I guess if you can't read a menu at 3 years old, being able to see the food before making a choice is perfect. Smart lad there, Ben :)
Why not let Miles take the window seat now. I think that is how my love of planes started around age 3/4. I loved looking out the window at the wing and just being able to fly
Ben - great post and great to see you and Ford being both very observant and deliberate. Our kids are grown now, but this is definitely a good age to start, and mixing up the travel experiences in various cabins is HIGHLY recommended. As we saw with Brendan's email to you, often times our past experiences shape expectations for future ones. You've done a great job being 'in-touch' with reality while providing reviews (with some...
Ben - great post and great to see you and Ford being both very observant and deliberate. Our kids are grown now, but this is definitely a good age to start, and mixing up the travel experiences in various cabins is HIGHLY recommended. As we saw with Brendan's email to you, often times our past experiences shape expectations for future ones. You've done a great job being 'in-touch' with reality while providing reviews (with some bias here and there, but that's not the point).
We tried our best to do the same, but when ours reached their late teens, they were feeling somewhat reluctant to tell their friends about flying in first class to far away places, mostly because their friends could not or did not have the same experiences. This, despite many economy flights mixed in between long hauls.
Point is: if yours and Ford's desire is to have Miles become a well-rounded person who is both in-touch with reality and can fully/deeply appreciate a premium experience from time to time, then continue to balance out the experiences - a Southwest or (gulp) Frontier flight here and there will insure their genuine appreciation for whether eating in the lounge or on the plane or simply in the airport before the flight is a good thing or not.
Then watch and observe how they process it all.