We’ve just seen a major new airline partnership announced in India, as IndiGo is partnering with Delta, Air France-KLM, and Virgin Atlantic.
There’s nothing terribly surprising here — IndiGo already partnered with Air France-KLM and Virgin Atlantic, and in 2024, Delta CEO Ed Bastian even revealed the airline planned to partner with IndiGo. However, the overall cohesive strategy behind the partnership is noteworthy.
Anyway, in this post I want to cover one of the most significant aspects of this announcement, which is that Delta has announced its return to India… sort of.
In this post:
Delta will operate an Atlanta to Delhi route, eventually
Details are really limited so far, but Delta has announced that it plans to resume services to India with nonstop flights between Atlanta (ATL) and Delhi (DEL), subject to government approval. When will the route launch? Well, “the service start date will be announced later.”
At 7,945 miles, this would be one of Delta’s longest routes (and possibly the longest in terms of distance flown, given airspace closures).
For context, Delta is currently the only one of the “big three” US carriers not to fly to India. Delhi is currently served by American out of New York (JFK), and by United out of Newark (EWR). United had a much bigger India network going back some time, but Russian airspace closures have limited the viability of some of these routes, particularly for service to Mumbai (BOM).
Delta most recently launched service to India as of late 2019. Specifically, the airline flew from New York to Mumbai with Boeing 777-200LRs. However, that service lasted for all of several weeks, before it was pulled. Not only did the pandemic shut down global travel, but Delta also retired its Boeing 777 fleet, which was the plane capable of operating this route nonstop, without taking any sort of a payload restriction.
If we really want to go down memory lane, prior to the 2019 service relaunch, Delta last flew to India from 2006 until 2009. That service was from Atlanta to Mumbai, but executives at the airline claimed the service was no longer sustainable due to Middle Eastern carriers.
When will Delta actually launch flights to India?
It’s not often you see airlines announce that they’ll launch a route, without providing any sense of when it will happen. Delta is known for this — it’s like the route announcement equivalent of Lufthansa’s 2017 announcement of its new Allegris business class.
In fairness to Delta, the company’s CEO has made the strategy pretty clear. In 2024, Bastian clarified that Delta planned to return to India in 2026, though didn’t name the route at the time.
Delta’s strategy seems to be to wait for delivery of the Airbus A350-1000, as the airline has 20 of these on order. Now, the question is when those planes will start to join the fleet. Delta was supposed to get its first plane in 2025, but that has now been delayed to 2026.
The A350-1000 is an amazing jet, in terms of unit costs and range, so it’s the perfect plane for serving India without payload restrictions. Then again, there should be nothing preventing Delta from flying its A350-900s to India, at least the more premium ones, which are a bit lighter. However, perhaps the plane is too premium for the route, in terms of demand profile.
Bottom line
Delta has revealed plans to return to India, by launching a route from Atlanta to Delhi. This announcement comes as part of a larger agreement with IndiGo, whereby Delta will finally have a proper partner in India.
We don’t yet know when the route will launch, but based on past comments from Delta’s CEO, it seems like the service will only start once the airline takes delivery of the Airbus A350-1000.
What do you make of Delta’s return to India?
I need SEA-DEL on DL. DEL is seattle's largest unserved international market, and there's a big tech industry in the PNW to support it. Surely they can make this route work with the a35k?
and as always, i'll keep screaming LAX-SIN from the fucking rooftops
If DL doesn't start SIN in 2026, they clearly are not interested in it - or adding further additions to their APAC network.
But I expect they will.
As Ben notes, they could add LAX-SIN now if they wanted to but I believe they have waited to convert their existing mainland US TPAC network to all A350 which will be finished next year.
They also wanted to have a large number of the...
If DL doesn't start SIN in 2026, they clearly are not interested in it - or adding further additions to their APAC network.
But I expect they will.
As Ben notes, they could add LAX-SIN now if they wanted to but I believe they have waited to convert their existing mainland US TPAC network to all A350 which will be finished next year.
They also wanted to have a large number of the latest and most capable 359s and that number will exceed 15 copies by next summer.
and then DL is waiting for the 35K which will have unmatched efficiency and capability compared to AA and UA's fleets - and highly competitive even compared to other airlines.
How DL will use its 350 fleet in the coming years will be interesting to watch but, as I have said multiple times, if UA can make money flying international routes, DL can and will do it more profitably with a more efficient fleet.
it isn't out of the realm of possibility that DL could start to aggressively build NYC to Asia and could even fly JFK to SE Asia including SIN, esp. if Russian airspace restrictions are removed.
IT would be beyond cool to have a US airline flying the longest routes in the world and serving SIN from both sides of the US, something only the A350 can do.
i wonder if the problem is that DL knows their D1 product is severely uncompetitive against SQ which is why they're waiting for the a350-1000s. Rumor is, DL knows they need to significantly up their game especially with the premium prices they charge. I've heard multiple sources on various forums say that SIN was near-confirmed in the route after they take delivery of the a35k (not sure about the validity of these claims though)
also, Tim, do you see DL ever flying to Ho Chi Minh from LAX/SEA? UA announced SF-HKG-SGN, but the elephant in the room is that, as u mentioned, the a350 is more capable of a direct flight from the U.S., and VN is a Skyteam partner which gives DL the competitive advantage over UA in every aspect if they launched a direct from their west coast hubs. Any thoughts on this coming into fruition in the coming years?
as for your first comment, the real difference for DL between the 359 and 35K is the cost efficiency. SQ has chosen not to order the 35K but is waiting for the 777X which won't have the range to fly LAX-SIN.
It has been rumored that DL intends to put a new Delta One Suite on the 35Ks and then use it as the basis for a seat on the 330CEO fleet. It is possible...
as for your first comment, the real difference for DL between the 359 and 35K is the cost efficiency. SQ has chosen not to order the 35K but is waiting for the 777X which won't have the range to fly LAX-SIN.
It has been rumored that DL intends to put a new Delta One Suite on the 35Ks and then use it as the basis for a seat on the 330CEO fleet. It is possible that they simply could not have gotten a new product certified by the time the last 359s that are on order are delivered but it is hard to believe that some of their newest and most capable 359s could end up w/ their second tier Delta One product. Perhaps they will convert the original delivery 359s - about 18 of them - with the new product but expectations are that they will get the 40 seat D1 configuration using the existing product within months.
And I do expect DL will be in SIN; whether it is economics or product, I think DL is waiting for the right airplane.
VN is a SkyTeam airline and so is Garuda. If DL can make SIN work, I would be surprised to see add more dots in SE Asia.
It is also possible that DL could add JFK to SE Asia service.
The biggest takeaway is that UA's current fleet can only fly from the west coast to SIN and it will take the 225 seat version of the 789 to be able to fly LAX-SIN. It is hard to believe that UA can generate profits anywhere close to what DL can using an aircraft that has at least 50 less seats (if DL uses the 275 seat 359s) or 100 seats using a 35K and their likely configuration.
Fleet does matter for ULH flying and DL is on the cusp of being in the best position among US airlines to make money doing ULH flying.
Delta and India. We've heard it all before. Talk is cheap!
Delta has been in and out of India since the Pan Am acquisition in 1991 but remember that AA has been in and out as well and UA is operating just one of a half dozen flights to India it once operated.
There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787
“ There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787”
Huh? United are AA are, right now, flying to India with a 787. Delta is not with the a350 in the fleet already. The right plane is already in the fleets of AA and UA whether the 77w or 789.
It seems you haven’t thought through your usual dogmatic statements, as usual.
The 787 has only worked for UA's route from EWR to DEL, Max.
They are not operating about 6 routes they used to operate before Russian airspace restrictions.
AA and UA both are only able to fly NYC to DEL. Period. No BOM. No Chicago or SFO or IAD to India.
DL will re-enter the market right out of the gate as the largest airline simply by virtue of the A350's larger size and...
The 787 has only worked for UA's route from EWR to DEL, Max.
They are not operating about 6 routes they used to operate before Russian airspace restrictions.
AA and UA both are only able to fly NYC to DEL. Period. No BOM. No Chicago or SFO or IAD to India.
DL will re-enter the market right out of the gate as the largest airline simply by virtue of the A350's larger size and able to fly beyond NYC, by virtue of the A350's greater capabilities.
I thought what I said through quite well, Max. You didn't read or rather comprehend what I wrote.
Having an aircraft that can fly well beyond the shortest US-India routes right now with Russian airspace restrictions in place is a big deal.
DL will do very well to/from India, even if Russian airspace restrictions end.
Admit when you say something stupid, and move on. What you’re trying to say now is perhaps what you thought in your head, but not what you wrote. No one is interested in your lame attempts to re explain a rude comment to another poster that isn’t even true. The 787 is flying to India today on AA and UA and the 77w has before that, delta has neither plane and thus doesn’t fly to...
Admit when you say something stupid, and move on. What you’re trying to say now is perhaps what you thought in your head, but not what you wrote. No one is interested in your lame attempts to re explain a rude comment to another poster that isn’t even true. The 787 is flying to India today on AA and UA and the 77w has before that, delta has neither plane and thus doesn’t fly to India currently. The idea that the a350 is a superior plane due to delta’s ability to be unique flying to India? Just flat out false and fake news.
The 787 is perfectly capable of flying from other hubs in various LOPAs. The demand is in nyc.
Even if you had the slightest point, which you do not, the new AA high-j 789 would be perfectly capable of flying to del from ord or clt.
It’s easy to track the current AA 787 flight path to del and recreate it from ord and clt. The distance is equal to or less than dfw-bne which the AA high-J 789 can fly at full capacity easily and the current AA 789 does today
Your fake news being rude to other passengers gets old quickly.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=jfk-lhr-bbu-rzv-gyd-del;+dfw-bne;+ord-lhr-bbu-rzv-gyd-del;+clt-lhr-bbu-rzv-gyd-del;
And my comparison was only to DFW-bne. United flies farther with their current 789 and 77w fleet today with planes they already have.
The 789 is perfectly capable of flying to India from interior hubs.
get the chip off your shoulder.
AA, like DL, has never operated more than a single route to India at a time.
UA, however, had close to a half dozen routes going before the Russian airspace restrictions.
They operate just a single flight now.
Any airplane can fly much further than usual if you reduce or remove the number of passengers.
...DL has flown an A330-200 nonstop from Singapore to ATL - empty.
get the chip off your shoulder.
AA, like DL, has never operated more than a single route to India at a time.
UA, however, had close to a half dozen routes going before the Russian airspace restrictions.
They operate just a single flight now.
Any airplane can fly much further than usual if you reduce or remove the number of passengers.
DL has flown an A330-200 nonstop from Singapore to ATL - empty.
AA and UA are having to take seats off of the 787 in order to get the range to regularly operate 17 hour flights, Max.
The A350 is fully capable of operating flights that are IN THE AIR for 17 hours with 275 passengers, something the 787 can't do, regardless of the airline.
India is an intensely competitive market. It is simply not possible to make money flying 240 passengers at US airline labor rates on a 17 hour flight
DL could have returned to India several years ago but its first priority was to get the 35Ls converted - which will be done in months - and make its mainland US-TPAC network all A350 for the most efficient and capable fleet. They are now refocusing on the ULH growth and the arrival of the 35K which will simply do what AA and UA will never be able to do in terms of capability and cost efficiency - unless AA and UA order the 35K.
My statement stands, Max. When you show up to try to prove something wrong - as you repeatedly do - you will have the facts served to you.
DL has the most capable and cost efficient long haul fleet. They have waited years after AA and UA stuck it out or started markets to start growing. DL's longhaul international advantage is going to up opportunities that AA and UA as well as many foreign airlines simply cannot match.
No chip.
Again. Admit when you’re wrong and move on. The 789 and 77w are perfectly capable of flying to India from interior hubs.
Admit when you make stuff up and move on.
No one has time for your fake info.
Under your logic, the a35k can’t fly ATL-del either if it’s taken to the max allowed passenger capacity
Think before you’re rude to others with fake news
No, Max,
DL doesn't operate any of its aircraft to the max allowed passenger and neither does AA or UA.
You can't accept that the 350 is simply a more capable aircraft than the 787 and DL waited to jump into the new generation widebody race after AA and UA embraced the 787 - and the results are clear.
The A350 is simply a more capable and also a more cost efficient aircraft INCLUDING...
No, Max,
DL doesn't operate any of its aircraft to the max allowed passenger and neither does AA or UA.
You can't accept that the 350 is simply a more capable aircraft than the 787 and DL waited to jump into the new generation widebody race after AA and UA embraced the 787 - and the results are clear.
The A350 is simply a more capable and also a more cost efficient aircraft INCLUDING in the configurations that AA, DL and UA use to operate flights of comparable length. It has nothing to do with maximum allowable number of passengers.
It is you that has an incessant need to argue and you fail to understand or conflate the facts in order to make your point
We all know that you label anything as fake that you don't like
Wow. You truly love to argue then attempt to change the subject to avoid three simple words: “I was wrong”
Of course delta isn’t putting 400 seats on their a35k, but it’s also why your lopa Argument about the 789 capability is flawed and wrong.
Your quote: “ There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft...
Wow. You truly love to argue then attempt to change the subject to avoid three simple words: “I was wrong”
Of course delta isn’t putting 400 seats on their a35k, but it’s also why your lopa Argument about the 789 capability is flawed and wrong.
Your quote: “ There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787”
To be frank and blunt.
You. Are. Wrong.
Move on you idiot
Again. Coming back to the topic which you so desperately want to avoid your own statement.
There is an opportunity for the US3 to fly to India. AA and UA already do so with the 789 and 77W. Delta has the a359 and does not fly to India.
Today, AA and UA have 789s in their fleet that already fly longer than the current NYC-DEL routing be flown last night. UA certainly does, no payload restriction. AA just onboarded a new 789 variant that WILL fly farther than the jfk-del bird last night with no capacity restrictions.
And both ord and clt to del on that same routing as last night are easily flyable
There is a plane flying to India from the US today, the 789. Delta does not have it. There’s another plane too, the 77W. Delta does not have it.
AA and United do.
The a350 is a great plane. That’s not the topic. The topic is you saying only the a35k can fly to India from interior hubs. That is just not true. United already flies longer routes with their 789s. AA plans to fly further with their new 789 to BNE at full
Capacity.
Just move on. You’re arguing about nothing and desperately trying to change the subject and look stupid and ignorant.
AA and United both had the a350 on order at great pricing since Aa (US really), especially, ordered it as little more than an a330neo and kept the pricing of that.
AA decided the 787 was the better plane.
United has deferred the a350 over and over again, also finding more value in the 787 and fleet commonality, for now.
And little wonder, the 789 flies to India today and can easily fly from interior hubs if they want. Both carriers already fly farther than ord-del with current routes
Just admit when you’re wrong. This is pathetic by you.
You are wrong. It’s not tough to say and you’ll look less ignorant.
the simple reality is that the 359 in its most current versions is more capable and can carry more passengers than the 789
the only one that is incapable of admitting that reality and continues to try to argue I am wrong is you.
as usual, you devolve to personal attacks when your argument based on facts is proven wrong.
DL can and will do with either version of the A350 what AA and UA can do with any aircraft in their fleets.
"the simple reality is that the 359 in its most current versions is more capable"
"DL can and will do with either version of the A350 what AA and UA can do with any aircraft in their fleets."
And yet Delta does not fly to India while AA and UA do with both the 789 and 77W on the routing in the last few years.
“ There is an opportunity for US airlines to...
"the simple reality is that the 359 in its most current versions is more capable"
"DL can and will do with either version of the A350 what AA and UA can do with any aircraft in their fleets."
And yet Delta does not fly to India while AA and UA do with both the 789 and 77W on the routing in the last few years.
“ There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane."
Again. Your quote. The right plane exists at AA and UA today. It does not appear to at Delta despite the A359 on property for years now.
Seriously, move along. You inability to comprehend when you're wrong is impressive but dumb.
you can argue all day long -and I expect you will try - but the fact that DL will be able to fly more passengers further than what AA and UA do is the point.
The fact that you incessantly try to prove me wrong by manipulating clear statements and then invariably call me names is why you need to walk away
You can just admit when you're wrong and walk away. But it very Tim Dunn to now try to say something new to save face then pretend it's what you said all along.
But again. Your statement: "There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
is wrong.
Your statements are quoted and...
You can just admit when you're wrong and walk away. But it very Tim Dunn to now try to say something new to save face then pretend it's what you said all along.
But again. Your statement: "There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
is wrong.
Your statements are quoted and replied to directly. If you don't like what you say to be quoted and directly replied to, then don't write factually inaccurate statements. It's a rather simple solution.
There's no "try to prove me wrong". You're wrong. The names were because you CONSTANTLY argue when you're clearly wrong then inevitably attempt to lie about what you wrote or redirect the topic to something else -- all so you can avoid admitting when you're flat out wrong. Which you are.
Flat. Out. Wrong.
The 789 is a perfect plane to fly to India. It's the only plane flown to India at the moment by the US3 and it is ALREADY flying distances on longer routes on both AA and UA than what would be required for either carrier to fly to DEL from ORD, IAD, PHL, or CLT.
Your own ignorance is not my problem Your inability to admit when you're flat out wrong is your own issue.
you are arguing.
the A350 can fly further with more passengers than the 787 can.
that is what I said and your attempts to deny that reality are all that is at stake.
what is wrong w/ you, Max?
You can keep replying and showing your ignorance over and over. I'll keep quoting you.
You: Your statement: "There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
Wrong. The 787 flies to India today by the US3. The A350 does not.
You: "DL can and will do with either version of the A350...
You can keep replying and showing your ignorance over and over. I'll keep quoting you.
You: Your statement: "There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
Wrong. The 787 flies to India today by the US3. The A350 does not.
You: "DL can and will do with either version of the A350 what AA and UA can do with any aircraft in their fleets."
And yet they don't and the AA and UA 789 can also fly to DEL from interior hubs at full capacity. Seems the A359 cannot do what the 789 already does.
You: "the simple reality is that the 359 in its most current versions... can carry more passengers than the 789:
This is about the only thing you've said that is correct. The A359 generally carries more passengers than the 789 but it's also not what your statement was.
Just move along. Your ignorance is baffling and your insistence arguing when you're wrong is amusing that you enjoy humiliating yourself but also tiresome.
If you don't want to be corrected when you are flat out wrong, then don't be rude to other posters when you are just wrong.
you can stop your ridiculous arguing anytime.
The A350's superiority is not determined by whether it is currently used to India by a US carrier, Max.
The A350's superiority over the 787 is determined by what the two planes can do in situations as close as possible.
DL's A350s will fly 750 miles (the distance from NYC to ATL) further than AA and UA's 787s.
and DL's lowest seating configuration A350 is 275 seats.
...you can stop your ridiculous arguing anytime.
The A350's superiority is not determined by whether it is currently used to India by a US carrier, Max.
The A350's superiority over the 787 is determined by what the two planes can do in situations as close as possible.
DL's A350s will fly 750 miles (the distance from NYC to ATL) further than AA and UA's 787s.
and DL's lowest seating configuration A350 is 275 seats.
If you can show that AA or UA operate 275 or more seats on a flight that will be in the air as long as DL's ATL-DEL flight (and the return esp.), then you win.
Until then, you continue to deflect, obfuscate and manipulate since you can't stand to admit that I have noted that DL is doing something better than AA or UA can do.
you have such an addiction to desperately needing the last word. lol
Keep trying to change the subject. It's amusing how you admit you're wrong in doing so. It's your dead giveaway that you know you're wrong.
Your statement (aka. the topic):
"There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
You are...
you have such an addiction to desperately needing the last word. lol
Keep trying to change the subject. It's amusing how you admit you're wrong in doing so. It's your dead giveaway that you know you're wrong.
Your statement (aka. the topic):
"There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India but it starts w/ having the right plane.
The A350 is simply a superior aircraft to the B787"
You are wrong. There is an opportunity for US airlines to fly to India. AA and UA do it today with the 789 and 77W in their current fleets. The A350 does not on a US airline. And Delta doesn't seem to view the A359 as able to fly to DEL or else one would assume they would hate that AA is flying a rather premium JFK route that delta is not.
You can simply admit it. Yes, ATL is longer to DEL than NYC. Congrats on your mastery of very basic geography. That also doesn't change the the AA and UA 789s already fly routes longer than ORD-DEL and that AA and UA could, today, fly 789s at capacity from interior hubs. You're wrong about that too.
And yes. The A359 (that delta does not deem able to fly to DEL today) has more seats generally than the 789. The 77W at UA and AA also has more seats than the A359. Congratulations on you mastery of basic bigger/smaller math.
Again. Not your statement nor the topic. Done yet?
Is your life actually this boring and lame that you'll argue a point where you're wrong all day long just to not be bored? This is pathetic.
what a hypocrite.
A350 > B787
you don't disappoint, loser ;)
Interesting that the map shown still depicts the Soviet Union, in terms of its border outlines. :)
Sudan is still shown as one country as well. Not to say that either of these are important, for the role of expressing flight routing. It's just funny.
When you start off a comment with “ the big news is”, you know you don’t have a life.
the part that is relevant to you is "DL will be doing what AA and UA can't do"
AA and UA are flying to India as we speak. Delta is not. What is wrong with you?
Looks like they are trying to avoid competition from UA and AA in New York City.
They are doing what American and United cannot do which is fly to interior US cities. The Atlanta hub can turn any flight into a profit.
Interior US cities? What do you even mean by that?
Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit and DFW are considered interior US hubs compared to BOS, NYC, WAS which are considered coastal hubs - even though Georgia is a coastal state.
I heard some rumors about US-Russia air space restrictions being rolled back. Maybe Delta heard some news and think they can use Russian air space again ?
Delta used to fly from JFK-MAA through CDG in and around 2007-2010 if I recall correctly.
Yep. Delta's scheduled routes to India have been:
ATL-BOM
JFK-BOM
BOM-MAN-JFK (briefly, and only westbound)
CDG-MAA
CDG-BOM
FRA-BOM
FRA-DEL (very briefly)
AMS-BOM
Sweet! Hoping that folks who need to connect to other cities can use IndiGo.
Also hoping to see ATL-BLR soon!
Their will be a payload restriction and a pretty aggressive one if I were to bet money. No Russia overflight adds an hour plus of flight time and you can't cross Afghanistan below FL300 if on P500/G500 (the eastern peninsula part). FL320 everywhere else. This can be a struggle for many planes so early in the flight without reducing the payload. I've never worked with the A350, but the larger the versions of a given...
Their will be a payload restriction and a pretty aggressive one if I were to bet money. No Russia overflight adds an hour plus of flight time and you can't cross Afghanistan below FL300 if on P500/G500 (the eastern peninsula part). FL320 everywhere else. This can be a struggle for many planes so early in the flight without reducing the payload. I've never worked with the A350, but the larger the versions of a given plane tend to be pigs when it comes to performance.
This may be why they aren't giving a date because it is dependent on Russia overflight...
I will bet against you. Delta took 30 seats off of its A350s in part to increase the performance capability. They also intend to increase their cargo hauling ability, so it may well be that non-revenue passengers face payload restrictions but I will bet that Delta will sell all 275 seats. The A350-1000 still has better takeoff performance so Delta will use it where it makes sense.
With current airspace restrictions, the route can be as long as 14,000km.
Fly direct from Atlanta to Istanbul, turn towards Teheran then over Pakistan (probably avoiding Afghanistan) to Delhi.
The 306 seat, 275t A350-900 can't do this route.
The 275 seat, 280/283t A350-900 can do this route with minimal cargo and no passenger restrictions.
The two variants of the A350 actually have similar performance (runway, climb to TOC, similar initial cruise altitude)
Zephyr,
US airlines cannot overfly Iran or most of Afghanistan which your route would take you over.
The Middle East and SW Asia are full of no fly zones for US airlines and, even where they are permitted to fly, they often must be above a certain altitude due to the Ukraine war, the ongoing mess in the Middle East, and former or current threats from the Taliban etc - plus the relationship...
Zephyr,
US airlines cannot overfly Iran or most of Afghanistan which your route would take you over.
The Middle East and SW Asia are full of no fly zones for US airlines and, even where they are permitted to fly, they often must be above a certain altitude due to the Ukraine war, the ongoing mess in the Middle East, and former or current threats from the Taliban etc - plus the relationship with Iran.
Look on a flight tracking site for the route that AA and UA takes between NYC and DEL. It does basically go near Istanbul but stays near the southern coast of the Black Sea along the Armenia/Georgia border, crosses the Caspian Sea at Baku and then across Turkmenistan, cuts the corner of Uzbekistan and near Dushanbe before cutting the NE corner of Afghanistan (at high altitude) and the far NE part of Pakistan.
The same route is used by a number of western airlines from Europe to SE Asia; if they are going to NE Asia, they overfly Kazakhstan and China but the only safe route between Europe and SE Asia via northern India is the one above. SQ uses essentially the same route for its NYC-SIN although they, like other global airlines, do sometimes overfly Iran.
DL will take the same route as AA and UA do with a 700 mile extension from NYC to ATL; the route from DEL to ATL will overfly NYC most of the time anyway which adds about 1 hr 15 min more flying time.
Remember that there was a brief war in Azerbaijan not less than 2 years ago that shut down that route which stopped flights from the US to India and Europe to SE Asia.
You can go to southern India over Cairo and Saudi Arabia but it is too long to go that way to northern India and vice versa.
if only from an aviation standpoint, it would be great for Trump to normalize relations between the US and some of those countries; it would make route planning a whole lot easier
and don't forget there is a little chain of hills called the Himalayas which most civil aircraft cannot cross; you either transit north or south of them.
The majority of DL's A350s will be 283 tonne 359s and the 322 tonne A350-1000s which have the range in DL's configuration and will need very limited payload restrictions on very few days per year.
Performance will be most challenged during the winter so it is likely that DL will use the 35Ks during the winter - if not full time. India traffic is strong during the winter when traffic to ICN - which is where alot of 35Ks will be used - is low.
"The A350-1000 still has better takeoff performance so Delta will use it where it makes sense."
Where are you getting that from?
"the 322 tonne A350-1000s"
Airbus has yet to clarify if the non-tanked A350-1000s will be offered at 322 tonnes. Thus far, they're still only doing so at 319 tonnes for those, unless you know something that hasn't been made public yet.
I am quite certain that DL is getting every bell and whistle on its 35Ks.
This is when having capability provides a provable competitive advantage.
Tim,
I believe US Airlines are allowed flights over Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan but must be over a particular altitude (35,000 ft, not really sure).
Zephyr, I can confirm US carriers are NOT allowed to overfly Iran. We can overfly Afghanistan at or above FL320 with the only exception being FL300 if on P500/G500. Iraq is FL320, but most if not all US carriers avoid it all together.
In other news, I will let Tim speculate on what DL's A350's are capable of. I am very familiar with ultra long-haul flight planning, including to India with multiple widebody types. I'm...
Zephyr, I can confirm US carriers are NOT allowed to overfly Iran. We can overfly Afghanistan at or above FL320 with the only exception being FL300 if on P500/G500. Iraq is FL320, but most if not all US carriers avoid it all together.
In other news, I will let Tim speculate on what DL's A350's are capable of. I am very familiar with ultra long-haul flight planning, including to India with multiple widebody types. I'm not convinced the A350 is leaps and bounds better than a 787 in its climb and takeoff performance, but I'll admit if I'm wrong when the time comes.
Smart money is with Mitch on this one. I have a pretty good idea how many seats UA and AA have to block out of Delhi just to get to New York. The climb out requirements out of DEL are no joke. Atlanta is even further. The A350 is a truly remarkable aircraft, but DL will almost surely be taking a hit most days on the flight. They'll probably be able to make it work, profitability-wise, but filling every seat every day? Very unlikely.
Quick correction Ben, prior to the 2019 JFK-BOM, DL last flew to India up until 2015 via AMS.
Delta has served India via Amsterdam, Frankfurt, and Paris, in addition to a nonstop from the US from both New York and Atlanta
Thank you for repeating my statement for me.
As an Indian-American myself, I find most Indians tend to be price sensitive above all things (with one exception marked below). If Delta competes on price they may win market share. However, there are still s some considerations:
1. Subcontinent views ME3 in really high regard. The number of people who would pay a mild premium to fly EK always surprises me.
2. With Russian aerospace restrictions, the western flight is slated to be...
As an Indian-American myself, I find most Indians tend to be price sensitive above all things (with one exception marked below). If Delta competes on price they may win market share. However, there are still s some considerations:
1. Subcontinent views ME3 in really high regard. The number of people who would pay a mild premium to fly EK always surprises me.
2. With Russian aerospace restrictions, the western flight is slated to be really long. I wonder how many people would just prefer to break up their journey half way in DXB/DOH/AUH/etc at that point.
3. Expanding on #2, especially if the cities already have 1-stop service through EU/ME (I'm assuming this route is mostly a nonstarter for west coasters similar to AA/UA NYC-DEL) on another carrier, I think they'd prefer to go that route.
Combining all of the above, I'm thinking this route will mostly be worthwhile for diaspora living in second tier US cities (+ATL obviously) that now get new 1-stop flights to india (like DSM-ATL-DEL), assuming that DL competes on price.
i'm surprised they haven't launched SEA-DEL. And the only reason i bring this up is because of the huge tech market in the pacific NW. Delhi is Seattle's largest unserved air route right now, DL has a hub in SEA obviously, and the a35k is more than capable of making that route work. the tech market part is important because it means there's the demand for the D1 product up front through corporate travelers, and...
i'm surprised they haven't launched SEA-DEL. And the only reason i bring this up is because of the huge tech market in the pacific NW. Delhi is Seattle's largest unserved air route right now, DL has a hub in SEA obviously, and the a35k is more than capable of making that route work. the tech market part is important because it means there's the demand for the D1 product up front through corporate travelers, and I'm sure (kind of) that DL would want to jump on this if the opportunity is right before HA/AS get more aircraft and surely launch it down the road in the more distant future
A little surprised by DEL over BOM given DL is uniquely capable of flying nonstop to BOM and it’s a much less crowded space vs DEL given no AA and UA presence (and no line of sight with Russian airspace situation). Indigo’s connectivity from BOM isn’t bad either. I suspect it may be because Indigo will start flying to the new airport soon and DL isn’t ready for it yet.
BOM has obstacle clearance issues while DEL does not.
The 35K engines are about 15% more powerful than on the 359 so the 35K might be able to make BOM work for a 17.5 hour flight while the 359 might take significant payload restrictions.
Although DL has not announced its 35K configuration, it will likely be somewhere between 330-350 pax; even if there are payload restrictions on the 35K, it will carry more...
BOM has obstacle clearance issues while DEL does not.
The 35K engines are about 15% more powerful than on the 359 so the 35K might be able to make BOM work for a 17.5 hour flight while the 359 might take significant payload restrictions.
Although DL has not announced its 35K configuration, it will likely be somewhere between 330-350 pax; even if there are payload restrictions on the 35K, it will carry more pax than the 359 can carry.
as for the comment above, it is precisely because of the power of the ATL hub to connect cities across the US and the higher fares in cities that the ME3 do not serve that will likely lead DL to generate revenue premiums to India just as it does in other parts of its network.
and the notion of a flight from DTW to India makes sense on the same basis - it is marginally shorter than ATL and still is a large hub. BOS is the closest city to India and DL could get even more of what it wants from Massport by adding some ultralonghaul flights. BLR could well be possible from BOS and even JFK even though BLR is a couple thousand feet ASL.
I suspect we will see alot more India to US flights from DL. Their network is not as expansive as UA's but it is more dense with more service in the cities it serves.
Thanks for weighing in - which US airport were you visualizing for the 17.5 hour flight to BOM on A35K? ATL or JFK?
The ATL point is interesting. Just feel like because these markets are underserved, there’s a good chance O&D will be enough to make DEL/BOM work from most DL hubs (maybe not MSP). I do agree DL will use the A350s to capitalize on the India market.
the currently highest takeoff weight versions of the 350 are capable of 17.5 hours in the air - 18 hours including taxi time. the 35K has better takeoff performance which matters both for BOM and due to the heat in summer, even in the middle of the night.
given current Russian airspace restrictions, I don't think any aircraft can do BOM to ATL with a full payload - which is 275 pax for DL...
the currently highest takeoff weight versions of the 350 are capable of 17.5 hours in the air - 18 hours including taxi time. the 35K has better takeoff performance which matters both for BOM and due to the heat in summer, even in the middle of the night.
given current Russian airspace restrictions, I don't think any aircraft can do BOM to ATL with a full payload - which is 275 pax for DL on the 359 and probably 340ish on the 35K.
Both ATL-DEL and JFK-BOM would be about the same length. N. India to the US goes over the Caucasus region and then over western Europe while US to BOM is shorter fly almost directly to Cairo and then across the Arabian peninsula.
DL's former ATL-BOM was about 17.5 hours before Russian airspace restrictions so they would likely launch that route if the restrictions are removed but either BOS or JFK are realistically the only US hubs from which DL could serve BOM.
I still believe that DL will favor the 35K to India just because larger aircraft are more cost efficient per passenger as long as you can get the volume which you certainly can do to India.
Tim,
If you're going to weigh in BOM obstacle clearance, I think it's only fair to also consider Delhi is a hot and high airport.
ULH flights from Delhi that I have been on (B777, B787, A350) do take up a lot of the over 4,000m runway.
Mumbai has obstacle clearance issues, but it shouldn't be much of an issue for any variant of the A350.
The B777-300ER (with slight worse runway performance) often depart Mumbai for the United States.
You clearly know what you are talking about which makes the conversation fun.
What airlines are operating A350s or 777s nonstop from India to the US that comply with Russia airspace restrictions?
I have been in both cities but I don't know which is hotter in the summer in the middle of the night.
and again, the longer flight time is in the winter when temperature issues are lessened.
along w/...
You clearly know what you are talking about which makes the conversation fun.
What airlines are operating A350s or 777s nonstop from India to the US that comply with Russia airspace restrictions?
I have been in both cities but I don't know which is hotter in the summer in the middle of the night.
and again, the longer flight time is in the winter when temperature issues are lessened.
along w/ the comment about routing, it shows how complex these ultralonghaul flights are and esp. when so many no fly zones exist which is the case for US to India.
Any airline that can pull this all off deserves my commendation.
We don't even know how DL is going to configure its 35Ks and I suspect that is for competitive reasons - along w/ the equipment they will have on the plane.
Both Delhi and Mumbai are due to have their new airports open this year. It will be interesting to see if these new airports can snag some of the new international routes.
doubt DL would be interested given their partnership with 6E unless the latter also moves a o large part of their operation to the new airports.
In the press release, Bastian says that DL will be starting flights in the "near future" awaiting government approval which probably includes getting slot times at DEL which are scarce and in overflying the transcaucasian region of eastern Europe and western Asia, the only way to get from Europe to northern India with Russian airspace restrictions in place.
the big news is that DL will be flying to DEL rather than BOM as its first destination.
ATL-DEL and JFK-BOM would both be about the same time in the air given airspace restrictions.
It is likely the larger size of the A350-1000 that will make the route viable. The A350-900 could easily operate the JFK-DEL flight- SQ overflies India on its NYC-SIN flights but w/ 100 less seats on the less capable A350-900ULRs...
the big news is that DL will be flying to DEL rather than BOM as its first destination.
ATL-DEL and JFK-BOM would both be about the same time in the air given airspace restrictions.
It is likely the larger size of the A350-1000 that will make the route viable. The A350-900 could easily operate the JFK-DEL flight- SQ overflies India on its NYC-SIN flights but w/ 100 less seats on the less capable A350-900ULRs - but DL wants an airplane that can do what other competitors' aircraft cannot do.
AI doesn't abide by Russian airspace restrictions and Indigo is not likely to fly to the US so the size of DL's network, hubs outside of NYC - the only places AA and UA serve India - and Indigo's connectivity on the India end of the flight will certainly make India a success for DL which learns from its markets and figures out how to do better.
Great to see DL working toward a return to India.
btw, DL very likely will have the A350-1000s in time for summer 2026 - and they could use A350-900s to launch India routes earlier and then switch to the 35K later.
DL has already taken delivery of half of its 12 Airbus new widebody deliveries this year with 3 339s and 1 359 in May alone; the remaining 3 339s in its order and one more 359 are built and ready for flight testing. DL will likely have all of its widebody orders for 2025 this summer.
As Airbus' own execs said, when DL calls, they get a level of attention that gets planes out the door for them that other airlines just don't have.
Indians should consider themselves lucky for the privilege of experiencing Delta's premium service. AI and ME3 will now have to give up on Delhi to US routes.
I would take Delta over AI any day
There are no Russian airspace restrictions on Air India.
The delivery depends on the coming trade agreements, as DL doesn't intend to pay for the tariffs. Their loophole might work for bringing "used" planes into the US, but I'm doubtfull if they will chance it and instead just fly them outside, making the -1000 unavailable for that route.
DL has taken delivery of 3 new 339s and 1 359 in May alone and they all are flown from Toulouse to Tokyo where DL has a maintenance base and they are inducted into the DL maintenance system with customer added products.
They have then flown the aircraft on a couple of occasions to ICN where they either ferry to the US or operate as live extra sections.
Using DL's current method, the aircraft are...
DL has taken delivery of 3 new 339s and 1 359 in May alone and they all are flown from Toulouse to Tokyo where DL has a maintenance base and they are inducted into the DL maintenance system with customer added products.
They have then flown the aircraft on a couple of occasions to ICN where they either ferry to the US or operate as live extra sections.
Using DL's current method, the aircraft are not imported to the US which means they can only fly international routes and cannot fly domestic revenue flights.
DL can easily use this same methodology for years to come - either until Trump leaves office or until the EU and US get a trade deal - and it will work fine for 35Ks.
interestingly, DL is no longer scheduling an ATL-LAX flight or two on the A350, something it has done for several years. Since their A350 fleet now consists of "imported" and "non-imported" aircraft, DL probably figured it was too much of a pain. If they have an A350 that is legal for flying a domestic flight, they will operate it but are not going to schedule the A350 only to end up w/ an aircraft that cannot be used on domestic flights.
Bet Bastion feels a bit stupid for stomping for Trump so hard.
Delta needs to consider Detroit to Delhi as well.
Please forgive my ignorance of such matters, but why do you suggest that route?