For a couple of years now, the “big three” US carriers, led by Delta, have been running a massive smear campaign against the Gulf carriers, and it’s just laughable. In early May I shared a short video featuring a Delta flight attendant who explains the “situation” with the Gulf carriers in an incredibly dishonest way. It’s just unbelievable how low the US carriers will go to trash the Gulf carriers.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, Delta has now released a 15 minute “documentary” intended to “educate” their employees about the situation with the Gulf carriers. A documentary is defined as “a movie or a television or radio program that provides a factual record or report,” and that couldn’t be further from what this is.
This is a propaganda piece at its finest. Hell, this is so well produced that it would make Kim Jong-un proud. Some of the things in the video are accurate, some are downright lies, and most are simply a stretch.
Here’s the full 15 minute video, for anyone who is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55HSxI-HlcE
Now, I’m not going to address everything point-by-point, though there are a few things I wanted to mention:
This video is actually better produced than past ones
For a propaganda piece, this is well produced. They intelligently use all of Akbar Al Baker’s stupid quotes (and there are lots of them), they quote reputable people, and it certainly leaves a viewer who doesn’t know any better saying “this ain’t right, I’m gonna Tweet the president.”
As I’ve always said, the US carriers could have a valid point
In the battle between the US and Gulf carriers, it’s not that I 100% side with Gulf carriers. Instead, I detest the way the US carriers are approaching this. The US airlines certainly have a topic that’s worth pursing — what does a “level playing field” really look like in an international aviation treaty?
What I detest, however, is that they’ve argued that subsidies are illegal, yet they’ve only singled out three carriers rather conveniently, when there are dozens of airlines participating in Open Skies that are subsidized. This topic should be much broader than the US3 vs. the Gulf3, and until the US actually makes that point, I refuse to support their case.
My point is this — US carriers, if you want me to support your case, give me a case that can actually be supported in good conscience, rather than a faux-patriotic puff piece. And if you really think that the Gulf carriers are going to destroy the American aviation industry, stop partnering with them (I’m looking at you, American)!!
What’s wrong with this video? Where do we even start?
A former US trade representative says “foreign government subsidies are simply illegal.” If it’s that simple, why is this conversation only about two countries? What about the countless number of other airlines that are government subsidized that fly under the Open Skies agreement?
A Delta tech ops employee and Delta pilot say “it’s all about fairness. You give us a level playing field, and we can compete with any airline. We are the crown jewel, they want our market.” This is why I find the victim mentality on the part of Delta so funny. Hey Delta, guess what? You can compete! You’re one of the world’s most profitable airlines, and your profitability has only increased over the years, in spite of the Gulf carriers greatly increasing service to the US. So as much as they’d like to keep pretending “we can’t compete,” Delta is competing, and they’re competing very well. C’mon Delta, give yourself some credit. 😉
There’s a Delta ramper who says “I work at international concourse in Atlanta and I see Qatar come in, the plane is always empty, every day.” Hyperbole much?
While they’re correct on their point that the Gulf carriers have a bunch of planes on order, can’t they at least get the numbers right, if they’re going through the effort of making a “documentary?” There are a lot more planes on order in China than they claim. Besides, this only reinforces the point that Delta would much rather buy used planes rather than new ones. They also don’t seem to know that Qatar doesn’t belong to the UAE, which is just beyond embarrassing.
A Delta executive says “it’s a crime that we don’t fly to India.” Let’s keep in mind that Delta cut nonstop flights to India in 2009, when oil prices were high, and when they cut a whole bunch of other international capacity. Can they really in good conscience blame the Gulf carriers for that?
Then they quote a Delta reservations agent who says “when somebody calls in and says ‘I want to go to India,’ I have to tell them that we don’t fly there, and I have to refer them to another airline.” Oh c’mon, Delta has several codeshare agreements in place to India, as they always have. Delta can sell someone a ticket to India, and they’ll make a lot more money off the ticket now than they did when they flew nonstop. Are you also going to blame the Gulf carriers for the fact that you don’t fly to Brisbane, Transylvania, and Timbuktu, and have to “refer people to other airlines?”
Then they talk about how the Gulf carriers are impacting other airlines. “Qantas has seen their profitability decrease year after year, and essentially what Emirates did is back them into a corner and turn them into one of their feeders.” Yep, Qantas was backed into a corner with this partnership, and it has worked horribly for them. Oh wait, their past two years have their most profitable yet, and they’ve said that “our customers, our employees and our share holders are reacting unbelievably positively to the Emirates alliance.” It’s a win-win, but still, shame on Emirates, apparently.
But the most preposterous claim of all is about the military. If the Gulf carriers continue to grow, then the US airlines won’t be able to afford any widebody planes anymore, and then our military won’t be able to get where they need to go. I mean… really?
Okay, I don’t want to spend my whole Sunday morning writing about this, so I’ll stop there.
PS: Delta, unless the Gulf carriers recently started flying to Kentucky, it’s actually Frankfurt.
These carriers have spent TONs of oil money, literally billlions and billions, operating at a LOSS for many years. Why? In order to try to steal market share from non-subsidized US (and other country) carriers. Of course it's not illegal, but it's definately unfair buisiness practice, and I avoid these carriers like the plague. I hope your check from the me3 clears the bank Lucky.
I could only watch the first 3 min as that was sickening. Talk about a sore loser. If Delta wants to keep customers, they should enhance service, check prices, and everything else that is basic to econ 101. Sheesh. How does that lady sleep at night?
have a look at the 2016 delta profits
http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-december-quarter-and-full-year-2016-profit
This video is a joke. If you can't compete, get out of the way. The Big 3 have all received money from the government and been bailed out! It isn't a "right" for Delta to be able to fly long haul all over the world. If they can't do it, they can't do it.
And I beg to differ, it has been proven that for every international flight to the US (from whatever carrier),...
This video is a joke. If you can't compete, get out of the way. The Big 3 have all received money from the government and been bailed out! It isn't a "right" for Delta to be able to fly long haul all over the world. If they can't do it, they can't do it.
And I beg to differ, it has been proven that for every international flight to the US (from whatever carrier), it brings a lot of direct and indirect jobs, investment, money, and people to spend money in the US. If Emirates/Etihad/Qatar were to pull out, how many people IN THE US would lose their jobs or have their hours cut? Probably a lot, because the companies they work for or if they work for the ME 3 directly would lose business or not have the need for them...
Isn't Delta extremely profitable right now? Maybe they found their niche and don't need to fly to India. What they are saying is, they want to cut low fares out of the market so they can charge people more in order to fly! Give me a break!
Hey these things cut both ways. Maybe it's the US "illegally" preventing government subsidy of its native carriers. It's all about your point of view. The fact is that Country A is collectively trouncing Country B in one sphere of enterprise. In this case it's the US complaining in effect that they as a country can't get their act together to compete, ignoring issues about private and public sector structuring which obviously differ between the...
Hey these things cut both ways. Maybe it's the US "illegally" preventing government subsidy of its native carriers. It's all about your point of view. The fact is that Country A is collectively trouncing Country B in one sphere of enterprise. In this case it's the US complaining in effect that they as a country can't get their act together to compete, ignoring issues about private and public sector structuring which obviously differ between the two countries. Another case of the US wanting to impose it's structure (one structure of infinitely many possibilities) on another country ? Just keep selling your armaments to these guys Uncal Sam, and quit bitching about your truly awful airlines, which seem to think their own regional business practices should be competitive in the global long haul market. Fail !!!
@ neoliberalelitist
Yeah I can speak to flights from the Gulf to the US (when US3 flew there), from the Gulf to Far East, Gulf to Europe, the ME3 are definitely the more expensive carriers. It's not like they are the only game; when I prices flights, I see around 5 to 10 different airlines, Emirates is always in the top 3 for price.
I "inherited" elite status from Delta when they took...
@ neoliberalelitist
Yeah I can speak to flights from the Gulf to the US (when US3 flew there), from the Gulf to Far East, Gulf to Europe, the ME3 are definitely the more expensive carriers. It's not like they are the only game; when I prices flights, I see around 5 to 10 different airlines, Emirates is always in the top 3 for price.
I "inherited" elite status from Delta when they took over Northwest Airlines (the last US carrier that I really enjoyed flying, well, except Jetblue). I stayed loyal to Delta because they were cheaper, and often code shared with KLM when I needed to fly to the US, Emirates and Etihad were simply more expensive, most especially for their premium cabins. Delta's business class flatbed felt like a stone slab. The tipping point came when I booked a flight as Platinum, Delta stuck me in the back in the a middle seat, between a very fat guy who encroached a third of my seat, stuck like that for 15 hours.
After that, I started paying more for Emirates and Etihad, decided I liked Emirates because at the time they flew where I wanted to go. And I love the lounge and showers, and see nothing wrong with liking them.
If some rich oil sheikh is generous enough to subsidize my travel, well -- how could I possibly refuse?
I really do doubt the idea that ME3 prices are lower than US3 prices -- quite often, I find that the US3 offers much cheaper fares compared to Cathay, JAL, Singapore, EVA, and ME3.
It's simple, really: why should I fork out $4k for surly FAs, outdated seats, and crappy lounges, when I can...
If some rich oil sheikh is generous enough to subsidize my travel, well -- how could I possibly refuse?
I really do doubt the idea that ME3 prices are lower than US3 prices -- quite often, I find that the US3 offers much cheaper fares compared to Cathay, JAL, Singapore, EVA, and ME3.
It's simple, really: why should I fork out $4k for surly FAs, outdated seats, and crappy lounges, when I can fork out $5k and receive vastly improved treatment? The US3 executives need to remember that their cost-cutting is alienating travelers, particularly deep-pocketed ones in premium cabins.
I'll bet that if it weren't for the ME3's aggressive expansion into Europe, United would not feel the need to introduce Polaris, Delta to design its J class suite. Competition incentivizes innovation.
Indeed, I don't know why one FA in the video says that she's hurt by Jennifer Aniston's jokes about U.S. carriers' lack of onboard showers and bars. I mean, UA and DL are phasing out F, and I don't even know why AA even bothers with a first class product -- it's really just business class at three times the price! The US3 haven't even tried to improve upon first class -- cheap alcohol, no caviar, inconsistent service, no turndown service, meh ground experience.
OMG, this Frankfurt mistake..
@lucky May I ask which source you got this video from? I can't seem to find it on the internet anywhere...
@ Samuel -- See here: http://news.delta.com/delta-releases-full-length-video-educating-employees-gulf-carrier-subsidies
DL doesn't have cozy relationships with governments that stifle competition AT alL.
This is all done in the age-old American tradition of pretending to be at a disadvantage while quietly bending the competition over the barrel with their own handouts and special treatment from the government.
US Airlines receive State tax breaks to keep their headquarters in certain jurisdictions. They were all bailed out in bk multiple times, something that could have never happened in many other developed countries that do not have an equivalent to our...
This is all done in the age-old American tradition of pretending to be at a disadvantage while quietly bending the competition over the barrel with their own handouts and special treatment from the government.
US Airlines receive State tax breaks to keep their headquarters in certain jurisdictions. They were all bailed out in bk multiple times, something that could have never happened in many other developed countries that do not have an equivalent to our Chapter 13 bk process. And the biggest howler, of course, is that the government allowed the airlines to merge into 3 legacies which has lead to an oligopoly that is quasi-colluding on fares. You think it is a coincidence that large percentages of domestic fares are as high as many TATL or TPAC fares?
The big 3 US airlines are MINTING money in the domestic market with zero competition. And when some real competition DOES show up (like Virgin), then they do EXACTLY what they accuse the ME3 of. Dump capacity and fares. When Virgin entered AUS-SFO, UA increased frequency by multiples and dropped fares to $200.
And when all that eventually didn't work, Virgin was gobbled up. We are a pathetic nation of whining losers who are desperately clinging to the idea that we are exceptional and deserve the just fruit of our past success.
Let me ask a simple question. when I go to buy a ticket from DC to Boston, why does united ask me to pay for even one Bag? Are European carriers responsible for that. When I was flying from Toronto to DC, the carrier told me that I should plan and "buy" and extension seatbelt for a lap infant.
Next time I am flying Air Canada or Porter. Somehow American and European airlines have...
Let me ask a simple question. when I go to buy a ticket from DC to Boston, why does united ask me to pay for even one Bag? Are European carriers responsible for that. When I was flying from Toronto to DC, the carrier told me that I should plan and "buy" and extension seatbelt for a lap infant.
Next time I am flying Air Canada or Porter. Somehow American and European airlines have decided that other airlines are bad since people don't accept their "take it or leave it" attitude.
I remember that there was a study years ago, about how much an airlines saved by reducing the number of olives in the lunch. Well, looks like with the olives gone, lunch gone, legspace gone, baggage gone, airlines still expect passengers to go to them where they have real options, reasonable leg-space, a baggage allowance that is in-line with the travel needs of the population it serves, good routes and frequency, and courteous staff. If the US airlines decide to get back to SOME of the practices they so eagerly dumped at the altar of margins, their volume and their net profit will go northwards, and they can get some of those planes from the desert instead of complaining about companies that do.
BTW, The Indian Airlines run the same routes, and, if I am not mistaken, force all their federal staff to use the. But they are still found wanting by paying public. So Subsidies can be a starter, but service is the way to expand market share.
@Ben
I was wondering about the promounciation as well. I was pondering if they intentionally made it sound like 'gutter'
Ca-tar would be closer to how it is pronounced on board.
How do you pronounce 'Qatar'? The people in the videos pronounce is 'Cutter' while I thought it was pronounced 'Cah-tar'?
Google is a friend http://frequentmiler.boardingarea.com/2016/03/30/how-to-pronounce-qatar/
Lucky has the passport and he speaks German, no? My comment is meant tongue in cheek, ich bin kein SJW. Es war doch nur ein Witz, die Titet war nur auffällig
@Mark
He's as German as a Mexican VW Beetle.
I think that cheaper fares to the United States might not necessarily be a bad thing for the US economy and job market. I'm from Pakistan, and my family and I have spent four out the last five summers in the US. Each time, we ended up spending upwards of $10k on hotels, shopping and other attractions. The expanding middle class in developing countries like Pakistan has enabled more people to travel abroad for vacations....
I think that cheaper fares to the United States might not necessarily be a bad thing for the US economy and job market. I'm from Pakistan, and my family and I have spent four out the last five summers in the US. Each time, we ended up spending upwards of $10k on hotels, shopping and other attractions. The expanding middle class in developing countries like Pakistan has enabled more people to travel abroad for vacations. Hence, cheaper fares to the US means that people end up choosing to spend their time (and money) in the US, rather than traditionally favoured places such as Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Dubai, Singapore and even Europe in certain cases.
I fly out of IAD to the Far East a few times a year. The ME3 all service IAD, but I've never had a chance to fly them. In business class, it's always been significantly cheaper to fly United or Air Canada from IAD to the Far East. So if ME3 is "dumping" capacity, it's not to IAD in C, I can say that much!
I get Lucky's point. Instead of this PR/Marketing stunt, they should focus on their service and agreements with other airlines. The reason why others have been doing so well is that they know how to have superior products and stellar service. This video is just aimed at Delta and the other big two Americsn legacy carriers to make even billions more with government support. How are they in trouble? They are making record multi billion...
I get Lucky's point. Instead of this PR/Marketing stunt, they should focus on their service and agreements with other airlines. The reason why others have been doing so well is that they know how to have superior products and stellar service. This video is just aimed at Delta and the other big two Americsn legacy carriers to make even billions more with government support. How are they in trouble? They are making record multi billion profit annually by nickel and diming their customers while the Gulf and Asian carriers have to make profits based on actual exceptional products and services. Delta mainly buys used airplanes with the occasional new order every five or ten years. At least, Emirates, Ethiad, and Qatar do purchase Boeing aircraft which will help support the American economy and sustaining jobs right here in the US. Their routes will offer Americans more options and not have to make us suffer by only having subpar service at skyrocketing prices. Domestic flights in the US are actually really expensive and they want to keep it that way to make more money from us. By eliminating Gulf carriers, we are forced to give them a monopoly on some of the international routes. Instead of fighting against us, fight with us instead of fighting the record profits for your investors. Those are the true people you care about the most. If you care about Americans give us competition, so we can have more choices and ways for better deals in all cabin classes. If you want to fully support American jobs, then only buy Boeing. Why would you buy from Embraer and Airbus? Nothing against them, but it is shocking to see Delta using patriotic symbols so close to Independence Day to try to win our hearts. Then, attempt to win us over by announcing on July 4th that you will only buy Boeing airplanes and only American companies can provide maintenance and support. You along with United eliminated first class, while many Gulf and Asian carriers not only kept the upkeep of great first class products, but they now offer suites class and apartment and residence classes by Ethiad. They compete fairly by actually offering better products and service for the buck. Be fair and honest in your videos and not have a failing campaign. I believe much more in honesty and integrity while you believe in fattening your pockets and accounts. Come on!!!!!!!!!!
The irony of a German guy using a jewish term in the title was a bit odd.....
Cultural appropriation? ;p
I got to around 13 minutes and had to quit watching. I was laughing out loud to much at how preposterous the video was.
@Lucky fifteen minute video will not play....
My two cents:
1. The ME3 offer cheaper tickets - that's what *most* customers care about. remember, most people do a ticket search and sort by price. they don't read OMAAT or flyertalk :))
2. If the US airlines can offer the same level of ob-board service provided by the ME3, I would choose the US airlines.
When Delta stops outsourcing their IT and Call Center jobs to places that are not in the United States ... then I might actually listen to their argument. Until then, the hypocrisy is rich on so many levels, and I'm happy flying SWA and non-US carriers overseas. lol
Where are the ME-3 carriers cheaper?? I fly often to the Middle East, usually 2 -3 times a year, and I am happy to pay the extra cost to a ME-3 carrier in order to not be nickled and dimed to death and get a decent flight and full service on board. American and BA are usually the cheapest and next is United. I pay the additional $300-400 out of MY pocket to be on...
Where are the ME-3 carriers cheaper?? I fly often to the Middle East, usually 2 -3 times a year, and I am happy to pay the extra cost to a ME-3 carrier in order to not be nickled and dimed to death and get a decent flight and full service on board. American and BA are usually the cheapest and next is United. I pay the additional $300-400 out of MY pocket to be on the ME3 carriers. The Big US-3 have dug their own grave. Maybe on domestic flights they have to have crap service and low prices in order to complete with Spirit or Frontier, but I think in the long term, it hurts them to lower their standards.
I was recently booking to Florida, and looked at the budget carriers for my flight. It would have cost me as much or more to take a budget carrier with all the surcharges than to book a normal Delta or American flight. The mentality of the American traveler is really in question here.
I'm on board with the ME-3 carriers and will continue to fly them. Great airlines, welcoming and courteous flights attendants and incredible on board service. The managers of US carriers should fly them a couple of times and then compare notes. IMHO
This seems to be a common thread in the USA.
Since the creation of the North American Free Trade Agreement the softwood lumber producers in the Pacific Northwest have been crying the same old WOLF messages over and over. They claim, as does Delta, that Canadian softwood is government subsidized. 5 Times this has gone to the World Trade Court and 5 times the USA and softwood industries have been ruled AGAINST.
Well, good old...
This seems to be a common thread in the USA.
Since the creation of the North American Free Trade Agreement the softwood lumber producers in the Pacific Northwest have been crying the same old WOLF messages over and over. They claim, as does Delta, that Canadian softwood is government subsidized. 5 Times this has gone to the World Trade Court and 5 times the USA and softwood industries have been ruled AGAINST.
Well, good old Trump just UNILATERALLY added up to 40% import duties and tariffs on Canadian softwood because those nasty Canadians are competing unfairly.
These BULLY tactics continue and it is interesting to see that they are applied to anyone who either has a better product or the same product at a better price.
So when you contact your congressperson to complain about the unfair fight against the ME3 also think of bully US beating up on softwood. The end result in both cases is that consumers in the USA will end up either paying much more or paying the same for an inferior product.
Tuum est.
Are you actually Jewish? Why do you repeatedly use "oy vey"? Do you think it's cute and grabby?
@James -- maybe try proofreading your posts first before pondering American stupidity
Good post!
I've been an AA Advantage member thirty-three years, Executive Platinum for many and YTD in the air internationally on various carriers just shy of 250K. If the US3 spent as much time providing a much, much better inflight experience as much as they are smearing three carriers that are beating them hands down badly in the air it would probably bring them more business and allow them to focus and work on something they have control over - themselves.
So here's the rub: The DL Video explains it so magnificently. The video is all about Delta and them, me, me, me.
What QR in particular has focussed on is the customer and the customer experience. Thats why they are the World's newly appointed #1 airline.
If Delta got off their collective fat, lazy arses and started thinking about their customers and stopped moaning, then they might be able to compete. They have...
So here's the rub: The DL Video explains it so magnificently. The video is all about Delta and them, me, me, me.
What QR in particular has focussed on is the customer and the customer experience. Thats why they are the World's newly appointed #1 airline.
If Delta got off their collective fat, lazy arses and started thinking about their customers and stopped moaning, then they might be able to compete. They have reduced their standards, they have completely torn their loyalty program to shreds to the point where it is not even a loyalty program, it's an un-loyalty program and now they are whinging about QR, EK and EY.
And look at the age of their aircraft. So old. 767s! MD80's? Seriously? Are they for real? And while they are at it, maybe they could take a look at their safety records. It's not great. What did they used to be called? Wasn't it Death Airlines?
They have even managed to lobby the US Government to bring in an electronics ban that does not apply to them ( unfair advantage to US carriers ). ( Good to see it just lifted on EY out of AUH )
So stop bloody whining, give those lazy DL, UA, AA flight attendants their pink slips, get some young, new enthusiastic talent on board and start competing.
The only thing this video does is make me want to fly Qatar more.
Meanwhile, let me just go and ahead and study more about what Chapter 11 bankruptcy means. Isn't that a US taxpayer funded subsidy? That forgave them their debts? What about the millions of suppliers they ripped off because of it? What about the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost then? And they have all been at it. DL, AA, UA, all had their snouts in the trough.
The audacity and the arrogance of DL with this video is beyond belief.
Paul, Delta froze their pension and is still funding it. You can read it in their annual report. They didn't offload it.
@ Jason.. ur answer is hilarious. Americans can nowadays be consist of other 2nd generations who are born or naturalized here.. people do look for better service through upgrades or whatever they want that are coming to them.. American Airlines want a lot and do the bare minimum.. the reason they will never or willing to improve their service is because there are people who are ignorant to the fact that this does occur.. I...
@ Jason.. ur answer is hilarious. Americans can nowadays be consist of other 2nd generations who are born or naturalized here.. people do look for better service through upgrades or whatever they want that are coming to them.. American Airlines want a lot and do the bare minimum.. the reason they will never or willing to improve their service is because there are people who are ignorant to the fact that this does occur.. I , do not mind flying American Airlines on shoes planned trip because there are no other choices.. the us big3 really can not compete with other country airlines.. service, planes or whatever and they always has an excuse..parent company uses subsidize as an excuse, flight attendant uses safety as an excuse.. if it was a level playing field by all the airlines. Us airlines will lose by a mile.. attitude gotta change... if you feel that the us airlines are a great airline, then what happened to other dr. Dao and to other customers were all in vain... it shows us the arrogant of how and what American Airlines are or once were. since competing is not in their system , they use will always use excuse to try to stake their claims.. internationally I do not fly American .. even if they are cheaper.. they gotta wake up..
Delta has their in-house propaganda machine, and the ME3 have Lucky.
The majors don't have the goodwill among the public for this to work. Forget complex arguments about economics. And didn't Delta offload its pension obligations a while ago? Nice deal if you can swing it with the Federal Government. I am flying Delta internationally this week by the way so no animus here. If they afford me a better product I'll buy it.
Delta has points but they are only looking out for themselves. The video neglects the ultimate protectionism - the inability for foreign carriers to operate flights in the US. How much does DL profit off of short haul routes to their fortress hubs in ATL, MSP and DTW to subsidize competitive routes? If long haul international is truly where the money's at then TWA and Pan Am would have won following deregulation.
And while...
Delta has points but they are only looking out for themselves. The video neglects the ultimate protectionism - the inability for foreign carriers to operate flights in the US. How much does DL profit off of short haul routes to their fortress hubs in ATL, MSP and DTW to subsidize competitive routes? If long haul international is truly where the money's at then TWA and Pan Am would have won following deregulation.
And while hearing from AA and UA is noble but convenient, Boeing, FedEx, and UPS have a differing opinion on open skies. If DL wants to get their way, will they commit to Boeing wide bodies if their primary focus is American jobs?
Wow. Ironically the only effect of this video on me is to make me want to avoid Delta altogether.
''U.A.E. aircraft orders ''
Includes QATAR Airways.
-Delta 2017
Ever think maybe the US airlines have trouble improving their product to compete with some other airlines because:
Americans are too cheap to pay more. They will choose to save $3 on a Spirit flight than a Delta flight, even if Delta's flight has more amenities, better legroom, and more likely to be on-time
Travelers complain about everything. They want a free upgrade every time. Most non-US airlines don't upgrade. How many people...
Ever think maybe the US airlines have trouble improving their product to compete with some other airlines because:
Americans are too cheap to pay more. They will choose to save $3 on a Spirit flight than a Delta flight, even if Delta's flight has more amenities, better legroom, and more likely to be on-time
Travelers complain about everything. They want a free upgrade every time. Most non-US airlines don't upgrade. How many people on the message boards moan about not getting an upgrade or their first class meal was not quite right (yet they didn't pay for an upgrade). Maybe if everyone stopped asking for free, we could have better.
Yes, there are some International airlines that are better and you can easily name a half dozen. But if you look at the overall world list of airlines, the US airlines are still pretty good. There's room for improvement and they are working on it (albeit slowly) UA, AA, and DL are generally better many many others. Look how bad BA is getting these days. Azores airlines is no five star airline. I've read some reviews about how bad TAP has been with lack of service. Or how about Aer Lingus... they don't have showers in first class, wait what? I thought it was just the US airlines that didn't have showers.
Lmao the graphic is wrong they put Qatar Airways under the UAE column... Shameful do they even know anything
US airlines are contradicting themselves. They want to take the business from the gulf carriers but forget the gulf countries also have families to support. If US airlines up their game with in flight services more people will use them instead of gulf carriers, but they not. They are making the customer experience worse for the customer.
We need more 5th Freedom flights in America. Think how great it would be to be able to fly Emirates or JAL JFK to LAX. Crush crappy American carriers or make them raise their service game.
When was the last time any of the ME3 had a massive I.T. failure that grounded most if not their entire fleet? I believe Delta has had at least three within the last year or so with other major US carriers suffering similar outages. If your making record profits, some of that money needs to be invested back into your product. In other words compete! Stop complaining and sometimes outright lying to the public and...
When was the last time any of the ME3 had a massive I.T. failure that grounded most if not their entire fleet? I believe Delta has had at least three within the last year or so with other major US carriers suffering similar outages. If your making record profits, some of that money needs to be invested back into your product. In other words compete! Stop complaining and sometimes outright lying to the public and improve your on-board offerings, services and amenities. That will have people wanting to use your airline more if not exclusively. Most importantly stop treating your customers like brainless cattle (hiding award charts, selling C+ as an upgrade etc..) and treat them with the respect their loyalty requires. Come on Delta, put your money (profits) where your mouth is and put an end to the money wasted on these puff video pieces which in my opinion do nothing for your cause. As many have point out haven't all major US airlines received some form of subsidies in the past? What is the issue then, the actual dollar amount of the subsidy? Teapot calling kettle black I think. Americans supporting Delta in this instance will not be satisfied until all flying choices to and from the USA are on Delta, United and American. That's when the real fleecing of the American public will begin with astronomical pricing for coach fares and a bag of peanuts to Europe and Asia etc. Support Delta and their false claims at your peril. If you think they have your back you'd better think again. The ME3 presence in the US market is a win for consumers, Boeing and the US jobs created by their existence. I'm glad the electronics ban has been lifted on Etihad as was reported today and I hope the ban is lifted on the other carriers ASAP.
I wonder when this "documentary" will appear on Fox, scaring the racist snowflakes even more about the invasion of non-whites into the USA.
@Justin H
You really should add a smiley to ironic posts to avoid confusion :lackofsmiley:
I believe the ramp guy at ATL who sees empty Qatar flights coming in on a regular basis . They are just messing with us . The ME3 threat is credible .
We should add Qatar and UAE to the immigration ban. That would teach them a lesson. Just like the threats our nation is facing from North Korea, Syria, and Russia you can't just nice these problems and hope they go away.
@Frank
I have never flown any ME3 but for years I stopped flying United, then America from SFO (yes, SFO). For domestic I fly Virgin, Alaska and may be Delta, in a pinch. Overseas, I fly Air France, Japan airlines, and China Airlines. Most of these are more expensive then the US3. I fly premium economy and business, and I pay out of my own pocket.
If the US3 don't look at themselves and ask...
@Frank
I have never flown any ME3 but for years I stopped flying United, then America from SFO (yes, SFO). For domestic I fly Virgin, Alaska and may be Delta, in a pinch. Overseas, I fly Air France, Japan airlines, and China Airlines. Most of these are more expensive then the US3. I fly premium economy and business, and I pay out of my own pocket.
If the US3 don't look at themselves and ask why people choose not to fly them and just come up with excuses then they are just way more pathetic than I think they are. Btw Delta has absolutely no excuse with their fortress Atlanta hub!
@AussieBen
But they're making money. A lot of it. Why go when you can make more?
Maybe smear campaign is their way of interpretation of work hard and overcome adversity?
Who knows?
The campaign maybe bad. But as long as people buys it, its an effective campaign. They never meant to educate their market. They are not teachers. They sell products. As long as the consumer buys it, it the right advertising...
@AussieBen
But they're making money. A lot of it. Why go when you can make more?
Maybe smear campaign is their way of interpretation of work hard and overcome adversity?
Who knows?
The campaign maybe bad. But as long as people buys it, its an effective campaign. They never meant to educate their market. They are not teachers. They sell products. As long as the consumer buys it, it the right advertising campaign.
Which brings me back to the question, is american that stupid?
@James
If that's the case, then they should get out of the business. I am actually disappointed that US carriers seem to be lacking the old American spirit of picking yourself up by the bootstraps and work harder to overcome adversity. It would seem those days are over.
@AussieBen
Maybe because they know exactly they cannot achieve any of that, then they resort to smear campaign? Maybe.... just a guess...
At least the video features Qatar's Qsuites.
Delta's propaganda piece is well devised, but not quite as well devised as Emirates' ad featuring Jennifer Aniston. The only difference? The nightmarish situation of no bars or showers on board US carriers is actually true!
I will never fly on a US airline unless I absolutely had to. Their hard and soft product simply is sub par compared to what I'm used to. I look at reviews of US domestic flights and am...
Delta's propaganda piece is well devised, but not quite as well devised as Emirates' ad featuring Jennifer Aniston. The only difference? The nightmarish situation of no bars or showers on board US carriers is actually true!
I will never fly on a US airline unless I absolutely had to. Their hard and soft product simply is sub par compared to what I'm used to. I look at reviews of US domestic flights and am appalled at what goes for supposedly 'first class' seats and meals compared to what I get on a domestic Australian leg with Qantas and Virgin. Plus everyone I know who has flown United, Delta or American across the Pacific has told me 'never again' (to which I always reply: 'never would have').
US carriers need to up their game if they want to win over passenger traffic. Why settle for a moist towelette and a bag of peanuts when you can have Dom Perignon and a shower at 40,000 feet? Why bother shelling out more money per ticket to sit next to a stranger in business class when you can pay less and get direct aisle access (though this is changing for the better I admit)? Even in cattle class, it's a no brainer to choose an airline that offers great entertainment options over airlines that, until recently, didn't always have individual in flight entertainment (I'm talking about United's transpacific flights to Australia). And don't get me started about US carriers' drab colour schemes for their cabins...so off putting!
Another area that isn't helping US carriers are the stories about overzealous cabin crew and the brutalising of passengers. That aside, American smiles are seen by much of the world as false. US hospitality is seen to be about as genuine as snow on the slopes in the Dubai ski mall. When compared to the graciousness of the Singaporian attendants, the comedy of the Australian flighties, or the international warmth of the Emirates crews, there's just no justification for putting yourself through 15 hours flying with the saccharine sounds of 'have a nice day'.
Ultimately, US carriers need to give the travelling public not only what is needed, but also what they don't even know what they needed. And they need to do it with panache and genuineness. While I can see some attempts to improve upper end product with United's Polaris class and American's new lounges, they have still got a long way to go. Sadly for Delta, it would seem that they are headed in the opposite direction with their latest video.
Wow, I just watched this, these idiots sound like crybaby liberals mixed in with alternate facts conservatives!
Their public and independently audited financials show they are making profits.
@Frank oh the horrors of horrors, them dirty furn'ers are buying vaccines to save children! Oh how horrible! Why don't da guv'ment do something?
Here's hoping that Emirates and other non-SkyTeam airlines start flying to ATL.
@senihana. What if it weren't our airplanes? What if it were buying up all of our vaccines? Or radars? Bullets? Missiles? When exactly would you start to question their intent?
the evil ''subsidized'' airlines who are buying hundreds of Boeing aircrafts .....
I will quote John McEnroe : " you can not be serious ?"
Um, the ME3 does not have lower prices, in fact, as indicated by my username, I fly them often, and they are typically the MORE expensive choice. Especially for their premium seats, we're talking like double compared to their competitors. I fly them because they have a better product, better than any US3 I've flown on for a long, long time. Indeed LCCs in middle income countries have a better product than most US airlines lol.
And to the commenters who think anyone supporting delta is just a dummy, xenophobic trump supporter, I would point out you are dismissing a topic taught in pHd level economics programs with just weak slander. So maybe you aren't much better than what you are accusing delta of.
wow, i get propaganda but this is on a new level.
I'm not trying to insult anybody. But the fact that the campaign consistently based on stupid reasons, does it means that the targeted audiences are stupid? Is american that stupid?
They aren't complaining about other subsidized carriers because those carriers aren't about to flood the market with 500 more airplanes that don't intend to make a profit. Imagine for a moment a gulf shiek decides to flood the premium cabin review market with 500 new reviews a day across 30 new well financed websites with editorial boards and staffs of people, and you watch your traffic, ad revenue and referrals dry up....and that would legal,...
They aren't complaining about other subsidized carriers because those carriers aren't about to flood the market with 500 more airplanes that don't intend to make a profit. Imagine for a moment a gulf shiek decides to flood the premium cabin review market with 500 new reviews a day across 30 new well financed websites with editorial boards and staffs of people, and you watch your traffic, ad revenue and referrals dry up....and that would legal, not in violation of any trade agreements. See, we know this kind of thing is going to be attempted at some point by a government who sees privately funded US industries as lambs to the slaughter, which is why we craft trade agreements over strategically important trade. I get that their lobbying efforts, higher pricing and weaker products offend you, but at least each of those tactics are legal and proper. They don't have much else to fight back with besides pleading their case. I don't think you are being fair on this issue, it is very obviously not kosher what the gulf governments are trying to pull off here.
I'm going to out on a limb and defend DL on this one. I'm not a huge fan of some of the arguments nor the production value of the video itself.
However, when I read comments like ME3 has a superior product... How do you think they can afford to have significantly lower fares and these amazingly better products. Believe what you want, but it sounds like DL has done its homework and had...
I'm going to out on a limb and defend DL on this one. I'm not a huge fan of some of the arguments nor the production value of the video itself.
However, when I read comments like ME3 has a superior product... How do you think they can afford to have significantly lower fares and these amazingly better products. Believe what you want, but it sounds like DL has done its homework and had auditors dig into the books of these airlines and determined some very shady business practices. The size of the ME3 carriers makes no sense economically without massive subsidies. If they can do it like they are without subsidies, then why are many counties like Canada not allowing them in? Why aren't other middle eastern countries or nearby regions able to replicate the model? It can't be done without billions in subsidies.
I think the only reason the government hasn't kicked them out yet is because of our military bases in their countries.
Audience is everything. keitherson Is right. Lucky you make good, well-reasoned points, but you and every blogger always make these points. Delta knowing these counterpoints continues to put out these videos. The audience a video like this appeals to are people who don't care or comprehend logical arguments. Foreign, MUSLIM, countries stealing our jobs. That's what Delta is selling.
The ME3 would be best putting out their own video having Americans talk about their own...
Audience is everything. keitherson Is right. Lucky you make good, well-reasoned points, but you and every blogger always make these points. Delta knowing these counterpoints continues to put out these videos. The audience a video like this appeals to are people who don't care or comprehend logical arguments. Foreign, MUSLIM, countries stealing our jobs. That's what Delta is selling.
The ME3 would be best putting out their own video having Americans talk about their own jobs with the airline and bringing up the record profits of the US3 while service and quality decline. They may even want to showcase Dr. Dao. They need to do things that the Trump electorate will understand.
Nothing to see here, just a blogger paying off all that special princess treatment he gets from the me3.
Uh why is Delta dragging Canada and Air Canada into this? Canada has the same population as California so you can't compare their aviation market to the US one.
, if I become an AU on 2 of my mothers CC's and then remove myself in 2 or 3 months, will those 2 AU's count against me when I want to apply for Chase cards in January ?
I agree with Lucky that the Gulf3 are not saints, but Delta is producing a lot of smear propaganda and the US3 sound to me like they want protectionistm, pure and simple. The ME3 do provide a superior product to the US3 in almost every conceivable measure.
I live in Europe and the video said the European airlines have gotten stomped by the ME3. They fail to mention that IAG (parent of British Airways, Iberia...
I agree with Lucky that the Gulf3 are not saints, but Delta is producing a lot of smear propaganda and the US3 sound to me like they want protectionistm, pure and simple. The ME3 do provide a superior product to the US3 in almost every conceivable measure.
I live in Europe and the video said the European airlines have gotten stomped by the ME3. They fail to mention that IAG (parent of British Airways, Iberia and Aer Lingus) is very profitable. I haven't checked on Lufthansa and Air France-KLM; however as airline consumers I need to look at it from our perspective. And the fact is that European airline consumers have much more choice than US based consumers. European airfares are cheaper, European passengers have more rights in the event of delays/cancellations and European passengers don't get roughed up and dragged off the airplane! See this article for more: https://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/05/think-big
https://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2017/06/do-your-worst
The video also cites Canada as having "stood up" to the ME3. However, from the perspective from the Canadian consumer, less choice is not a good thing. Also, the aircraft industry in Canada is not as big as Europe and the US. A big reason why the EU did not enact protectionist measure against the ME3 is that the ME3 buy a lot of Airbus planes. In fact, Boeing has been lobbying on behalf of the ME3.
I fly ATL - India 6-8 times a year. If Delta offered a direct flight, I would take it. I flew the ATL-BOM flight several times and it was always packed.
Also, all of Emirates planes are leases.. so it's not as if their CapEx was off the charts, they spread it over 12 years. (Emirates gets rid of their planes after 12 years to keep their fleet young, that's why they never retrofit things like bars etc...)
I have flown the ATL-DOH flight on Qatar several times and my flights have gone pretty full. Maybe the Delta ramper observed other days.
Lucky I completely agree with you I think the us airlines may have a point but the way they are handling this is really bad also what they said about Qantas was absolute BS as someone who lives in Perth (Australia) I really think that Qantas has benefited enourmosley from the Emirates partnership as it allows Qantas to increase there options as Emirates now flies the A380 to Perth which is great for Perth and customers connecting onwards to Europe.
+1 keitherson
I'm curious...what is the definition of "subsidies?" If subsidies are "money from the govt," does bankruptcy count? Because I think the US3 all accepted subsidies recently, yeah?
@ J -- Nah, that's the wrong definition. If you look in the dictionary, a subsidy is defined as "when Emirates, Etihad, or Qatar receive money from the government."
;)
Nicely done, Lucky. And as much as I agree with keitherson above, I do think factual refutations like this by a key observer in the field are worthwhile. You have no vested interest in either side, and far more participation than the average consumer, so I think your observations are noteworthy.
It's actually Frankfurt? I'm not sure I understand your last sentence..
@ Raul -- Take a look at the picture below the sentence, which shows Rome, Paris, and "Frankfort."
I wouldn't fault Delta. After all, this is pandering to a country that just voted in Trump.