This isn’t good… air traffic controllers cleared two Southwest jets to use the same runway at the same time. This caused a close call, including a high speed rejected takeoff.
Continue reading: ATC Error Leads To Southwest 737 Close Call On San Diego Runway
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Scary.
You mention it happened on Monday, October 11, 2024. October 11 was a Friday. So was it Friday, October 11 or Monday, October 14?
A collision anywhere would be awful but it would be especially horrible in SAN given the history
@ Jason -- Whoops, it was the 11th, so that would be Friday. Fixing it now, thanks!
San Diego needs a bigger airport. The frequency of close calls is out of control.
At least the woman running the tower in the first 1/2 of the video speaks slowly and clearly. The guy at the end spitting out words like a machine-gun confused even the experienced pilots!
a bigger and more complex airfield system will not make it easier to avoid issues
Hi Ben, love these posts. I'm working towards my PPL currently and the number one thing that stands out to me about the whole experience is how seemingly nonchalant everyone is over radio. Seriously mumbled instructions, lack of urgency or attempts to be clear, half mumbled responses etc. I'm really quite shocked by it all. I get that it's just par for the course when these guys are doing it day in day out but until the robots take over it wouldn't hurt the humans to make an effort to be a bit more clear in their comms. Keen to hear if others who are literally on the lines feel the same.
I should have added: the one that brings this home to me is AC759 at SFO in July 2017. Nearly the worst aviation disaster ever. The pilots of 4? 5? taxied planes saw the AC jet headed right towards them and the only thing anyone ever said over radio was one pilot mumbling to the tower "He's on the taxiway." Never: "AC, you're about to hit us!" or anything like that. AC missed hitting the first aircraft by 14 FEET.
You really just need to stop posting articles about ATC.
There is no "close call", since there was only ever one aircraft encroaching on the runway (hold short bars are offset from the runway edge lines).
There is no "sweeping this under the rug" just because controllers wanted to focus on their duties instead of going out of their way to apoligize.--- that's just pure rage baiting now.
The way to show they were sweeping it under the rug is if an MOR was not filed. Maybe get that information before making outrageous claims like that.
And the way other countries do things is irrelevant, because the United States is the busiest and most complex airspace of them all.
We do things for a reason, and we get them done well.
Notice for your 80 something posts critiquing controllers, not one actual collision involved.
Meanwhile, we're still understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. We're exhausted and demoralized, and posts like these exasperate it.
Maybe you should write more about how we need and deserve better pay, especially in light of many other unions in and out of the aviation industry securing massive raises for their members (you know, since they actually have the adult privilege of striking and have to be taken seriously because of it).
Your articles about ATC- and the people ignorantly commenting on them- are exhausting and demoralizing. You are generally fair with your postings, but when it comes to ATC, you're following the biased and uninformed masses. It irks the hell out of me.
Of course you're ATC related. I understand your sentiments a bit, but 1) if you're ATC, then related insights rather than vitriol would have been impressive, 2) without you and the ATC trying to educate the flying public better about these situations, then you leave the door wide open for these type of blog posts ... you just fed the "biased and uninformed masses" ... and then exacerbated it by instead focusing on pay and union rights (which I generally agree with) ... so how about you, "Unnamed", get it together.
Mr./Ms. ATC you are wrong. That was a close call. One aircraft was taking off while the other aircraft was already past the hold short bars as confirmed by the pilot communication. Just another ATC error in the USA...
If YOU are "exhausted and demoralized" then YOU might want to consider finding a new career.
You are part of an obsolete system. You will be redundant very soon.
With your attitude, you shouldn't be ATC, you'd be a better fit as an authoritarian flight crew making up your own bogus FAA rules.
Or TSA?
Thank you for your service, time to retire.
"Notice for your 80 something posts critiquing controllers, not one actual collision involved."
Very unpersuasive, it's only a matter of time before there is a collision.
My son was on that flight. So take your outrage elsewhere. Find a new job if this one is too tough for you. PEOPLE were screaming and in fear for their lives as the jet was screaming down the runway one second and then screeching tires the next. Passengers around him were BRACED for a collision that they didn't know from which side it would come.
It seems that some Air Traffic personnel do not always communicate well, doesn't it? Let's face it, some of them make mistakes now and then, for whatever reason. Thank goodness there is usually another set of ears and eyes fiarly close by. Sometimes pillots make mistakes, as well. With as much trafficc as there isw being handled, everyone needs to be 101% alert at all times.
The problem is, that the more air traffic increase, the less room there is for error.
Pilot here, and agree wholeheartedly with your post. This blog is usually pretty evenhanded, but when it comes to ATC there’s a lot of sensationalism and finger wagging.
To the person whose family member was on the plane, this may sound callous, but RTOs happen all the time and for many reasons: ATC, mechanicals, birds, another aircraft doing something stupid… I’m sure it wasn’t fun for folks in the back, but slamming on the brakes in your car will be ~5x more abrupt than a 737 RTO. Your family member was safe, and that’s what matters.
SAN wasn't named one of the world's most dangerous airports for no reason. This airport is a ticking time clock... And yes, I get some people are saying Lucky is overhyping the issue, but there is definitely a problem with ATC in the US. Just because nobody got hurt, doesn't mean there isn't an underlying issue. Im sad to say, it's just a matter of time before disaster strikes. Sometimes, all it takes is a few seconds between life and death. That is in a plane, in the car, walking down the street, etc.
Thanks joeblonik. A bunch of members of the clueless flying public (ok, LAXLonghorn wasn't so bad) vs two of us actually in the biz.
To the chap complaining about their kid, your frustration reminds me of this pathetic article about how terrifying their go-around was:
As joe adequately pointed out, these things happen frequently. Your child isn't special (in this regard).
I should also point out your strawman about the job being too tough for me. Didn't say that at all. But if you think we controllers should quit en-masse because we are understaffed and overworked (most of us are working 6 days a week up to 10 hours a day in a mentally demanding job, wheras previous generations of ATC worked 8 hours 5 days a week) you are going to be left without ATC... or worse, those conditions will continue to exasperate ATC errors until a collision does occur. A smarter person would be next to us advocating for improvements instead of telling us we need to quit if we don't like it.
Meanwhile Eskimo doesn't understand how the government works. Or, maybe he just doesn't understand the meaning of the word "soon". Furthering proof of his aviation cluelessness his is critique of me being "authoritarian".... didn't know I came off that way in my comment, but seems rather counterintuitive to be upset about authoritarian ATCSs... the job is literally to be authoritarian.
As soon as "Kamala Biden" agrees to pay out the portion of my pension already earned (~$750K), sure, I'll be happy to leave, and so will many other controllers, leaving poor SOBs like them with a new generation of inexperienced kids playing with their lives. If that's what you want, I guess? Another weird sentiment, if you ask me.
The conundrum of being an underpaid ATCS... the pension is a set of golden handcuffs. Leaving this job isn't the same as leaving most jobs. Not to mention that ATC doesn't easily translate to other careers.
@LAX: I'd hardly describe my comment as vitriolic. But time and again Ben posts these things and among all that, I haven't seen a dedicated post for the issues we ATCS are facing (to his credit, he does occasionally mention our overworked and understaffed issues... but only as a sidebar in other posts). My comment here was a bit of vent.... that I can admit.
What insight do you want? You have 6 or 7 or more sets of eyes on the situation. 2 pilots, 2 copilots, 2 controllers, probably an ATC operations supervisor. 7 people did not miss the issue, and either the plane on the runway could've continued their departure without collision OR the plane crossing could have finished crossing without collision. If either of those things had happened, calling this a close call would have more standing.
To your second point, I can only say so much, educate so much. No matter what I say on this matter, for instance, the public masses will group together and revel in their echoes of how this was a "close call". My educating them isn't strong enough to break that.
In addition, some things about ATC you just can't understand until you are ATC.
@NFSF: I mean, for as long as ATC has existed, you could say "it's only a matter of time"... hell, it's literally happened before. There is one... mayyyybee two changes in the last few years that are inspiring you to speak up. 1: prevalence of social media/youtubers wanting to monetize public outrage and fear mongering. 2.... maybeeee Covid. Fellow controllers at other facilities have said that covid destroyed training for the last several years, and that could lead to new controllers who are less experienced with busier/normal traffic.
OK... My insanely long drunken rant is over (it's my day off).
As Forrest would say... that's all I've got to say about that.
Have you considered there might always be an underlying issue (humans make mistakes), but with youtube and people monitoring 24/7 seeking this stuff out, the issue is aggrandized?