While it remains to be seen if anything comes of this, the operators of London Heathrow Airport (LHR) are considering a terminal shuffle, which could impact which airlines operate from which terminals. This would be a once a decade shift…
Continue reading: Heathrow Airport Terminal Shake-Up: What Airlines Could Move?
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Moving Scandinavian Airlines to the same terminal as Delta and Virgin would make sense to increase the feed from Scandinavia for their long haul networks.
The primary issue is, that it is pain in the butt to change terminals. If there was a free flow possible, that would makes things easier, also for the question of Lounges etc. But ai understand that cannot be easily changed so, consolidation would be great.
Why does virgin want T2 so much? Other than being more modern.
Yes, it’s idiotic that skyteam airlines are spread across T3 and T4, and especially SAS at T2 this long after the star alliance break up (rip)
T3 is nicest for Y travellers, best shopping and restaurants. Worst Customs here on arrival, always delays and getting luggage takes an age.
T5 sux, nowhere to sit. Best Customs.
T2 you have to walk miles to the remote gates, even further than T5. Average Customs
T4 is nice, but under-utilised.
For UK citizens flying the flag, T5 remains the terminal of choice. Therefore, no change is good news.
What Heathrow REALLY needs is a separate transit line running between all terminals airside. The current bus situation is awful. Hopefully 3rd Runway planners have this in their plans.
The obvious solution is to move both VS and DL to Terminal 4. It feels like the only reason this hasn’t happened is the Clubhouse (and arrivals lounge), but it clearly needs to happen.
I've only flown from T3 once but it wasn't a good experience. As an Elite Plus passenger travelling in premium economy, I could only use a lounge for about 2.5 hours out of my 6-hour connection, and finding a seat in the public spaces was pretty challenging. Even the queue at Caffe Nero was over 10 minutes longer. The T2 experience is on a completely different level.
I’m with you on VS/DL move, but QR should probably stay in T4. That’s the right call for capacity reasons, and for customer reasons moving them to T3 wouldn’t improve connections given that most people are going on to T5.
Delta, Air France, KLM, Virgin Atlantic and other Sky Team airlines need to be in the same terminal — as they once were until Delta got in bed with Virgin Atlantic. Terminal 4 is nice because there are hotels directly attached to it. Plus, Air France and KLM already use it. But I can’t imagine the costs involved for Virgin to build a new Clubhouse and a new car pull-up for business-class check-ins. That has to be astronomical. And they would also have to build a new arrivals lounge too.
Yes, that was what I meant, I just forgot to say in the comment. Everyone should go to T4, not T2
Additionally, AF runs a NCE-LHR flight, which carries some connections onto the DL/VS TATL network.
Virgin Atlantic are a poorly run airline.
They make bad decisions like this one (ie preferring T2 over T4) all the time.
In another L for SAS following the fall from grace of being janked out of star alliance into the island of misfit toys (skyteam) I presume they will likely get the boot from T2 and be kicked to the curb to the awful T4... hard to get to and nothing to do once there
The Hague is for clowns and puppets.
The real deal can drop nukes a be hailed as a savior.
Virgin Atlantic don't want to move to T2 until it is expanded, which won't happen until the third runway is built, which won't happen for at least 10 years.
There is no way they are going to shove all the Star Alliance airlines from T2 to T4 simply because Virgin want to move. Similarly Virgin won't move to T4 for a decade and then to T2. That doesn't make any sense.
What they should be doing is incentivising any airlines to move from T3 to T4 to reduce the pressure on that terminal. Emirates would be the logical airline to move but I very much doubt they are interested in doing this.
Realistically, all that will happen is a few small airlines with a few flights a day might shuffle around and the result is virtually no change on the pressure on the other terminals.
Transferring from T4 to T5 to connect from Qatar to BA was a horrible experience. Airlines shouldn't be allowed to sell connecting itineraries out of Heathrow that require a terminal change (or airport change to Gatwick). Or Qatar should offer a van that meets every flight landing from Doha to take them to T5.
I think T5 has capacity for one more satellite, so they should just build that and move all OW to T5.
Yes, I know I should have just bought a direct flight to/from Doha to maximize my Q-Suite experience, but it was twice the price.
It would make sense for them to move permanently into T4 and stay there with their Skyteam partners plus LATAM. If and when the new runway gets going and T2 is expanded, there will be additional demand for *A services to Europe (e.g. Aegean already have up to 4 daily flights to Athens with 20+ pax in business whenever I have flown it- they could easily add one more plus one SKG plus some seasonal routes, similarly TAP would likely want to bring OPO over from Gatwick, LOT to launch KRK, AZ to repatriate some flights from LCY etc), and some new operators might turn up too (e.g. from China or SE Asia). It would then be trivial to rebalance by getting a few smaller airlines moved across from T3/T4 at that point.
How about this: airlines stop prioritizing flying to the UK in general for connections throughout Europe or the world. Sorry but most definitely not sorry, but the sun has set and they still cannot accept that fact.
Back in February LHR announced plans to expand capacity at T2 & T5, this project is quite separate from the expansion plans for a 3rd runway and involves more piers at both terminals.
The Independent’s travel advisor published an article recently on various scenarios weighted on passenger footprint and aircraft daily movements, with input from industry leaders he concluded;
T2 hosts SlyTeam & partners
T3 OW and others,
T4 Star Alliance and others
T5 BA OW and the development of the long awaited T5 D pier,
This is a forum for aviation, not your political views. I don't need to come here and be reminded of the world or triggered by your views. Kindly respect the reason we are all here and find an appropriate forum for your world view.
Everyone's missing something here re: why VS wants to fly to T2: only T2 and T5 are capable of handling domestic UK (and Ireland) flights. One reason Virgin's attempt at domestic flights (Little Red) failed so badly was that they had to run those flights from T2, separate from the rest of their operation; it made connecting a pain and turned into something customers avoided. If Virgin moves to T2, domestic operations to connect to long-haul services finally become feasible again.
Another commenter suggested they want to do another Little Red (domestic connections) and T3 and T4 can’t accommodate domestic arrivals.
Yes but there is no logical business case to expand T2 or T5 unless they can increase the number of flights each day, which they can only do with a third runway.
The only benefit of doing terminal expansions without a third runway is giving passengers more space and comfort. There is little financial incentive for HAL to do this. HAL operates to maximize shareholder returns, not to provide the best passenger experience.
More available gates doesn’t have to link up with more flight ops, extra capacity would improve overall punctuality with aircraft not having to hold on the ground or indeed in the air.
If you're starting from scratch yes this probably makes the most sense, but we aren't starting from scratch.
Moving all of *A to T4 would require a whole lot of investment - would the subsidize UA / AC / SQ / LH to build new lounges in T4? I realize airlines are tenants, not owners, but it seems like a real downgrade for *A just to cater to VS who currently drew the short end of the stick.
Star Alliance airlines will fight tooth and nail to remain in Terminal 2 rather than being demoted to Terminal 4.
Airlines aren't flying to London due to some misplaced longing for the days of Empire. They're flying there because it makes profitable sense to do so.
The thing to watch now is if UA go ahead and refurbish their T2 lounge for the 10 year refresh, same goes for the Plaza Premium lounges. The recent refurbs completed on Aer Lingus, Air Canada and Lufthansa could be categorised as cosmetic with new furnishings and some detailing but in the scheme of things the investment was not that substantial and could very easily be absorbed into the wider project budget.
frrp, some might think that, others who fly from T5 a couple of time a month might disagree.
Incorrect assumption frrp.
Discerning BA customers flying long haul and who live south of town, find it most convenient actually.
The logic behind the post T5/T2 terminal moves was undermined as soon as BA bought BMI, then destroyed by the Virgin/Delta alliance. I think, regardless of the ongoing runway discussion, Heathrow will go ahead with the completion of T2 soon, of which less than 50% of the original plans are built out - that is probably driving this discussion.
If you moved OW to T4, which would require AA, CX and QF being made whole in terms of lounge investments, then you could probably also shuffle around BA/AA and BA/JL flights so that you no longer have services to the same destinations leaving from different terminals. T3 could then serve SkyTeam and Emirates while the expanded headhouse and "T1" satellite of T2 are built, so Virgin gets to retain use of its lounge and seperate check-in area in the interim.
Once that phase of T2 is built, it houses SkyTeam and Star, then a rump of T3, say the main terminal and Pier 6, is left for Emirates and a few small airlines while you build extra satellites for T5 and T2 on top of legacy T3 piers. Once they're complete, you flatten T3 and can massively clean up T2 access in the central area.
Does Aer Lingus stay in T2, seperate from IAG and OW? If the T5/T4 shuttles are as frequent as the T1/T4 shuttles used to be when BA operations were split across those terminals, then transferring needn't be a disaster.
I find some of the narrative and comments very amusing.
How is Virgin desperate to move to T2?
The last terminal shakeup was when T2 opened. At the time, with minor exceptions, T2 was Star Alliance, T4 was Skyteam plus non-allied airlines plus Qatar and Malaysia Airlines which were very fresh into OneWorld at the time, T5 was BA, and T3 was the rest of BA and the rest of OneWorld plus a few exceptions such as Emirates and Virgin. Lounges are clearly big drivers. QR and MH both have lounges in T4 as do EK and VS in T3. Delta clearly eyed VS’s lounges and moved to T3. QR would be hard pressed to move from T4 without re-establishing a lounge complex elsewhere. MH are easier to convince now. T2 and T5 are the only terminals that handle domestic/Irish flights.
Part of the review will also be taking into account the renewed expansion push which includes new terminals. Heathrow have already given the green light for expansion at T2 and T5 while T2 is finally getting its own baggage system rather than use the one under the old T1, paving the way to finally demolish T1. T3 will be next in line for demolition so I would say any moves would be the start of a longer plan that will align with the new runway construction.
“How is Virgin desperate to move to T2?”
Extract from an interview Shai Weiss had with H4P in 2024, his position on wanting a relocation is very well known;
The future of …. Virgin Atlantic at Heathrow Terminal 3?
Whilst Shai has said he has a very good working relationship with Heathrow airport, there remain points of contention.
“We are in a terminal that needs some attention, Terminal 3, and we’re going to be there for a few years, that’s for sure. So I’d like to see a rapid expansion of the new security lanes, continued operational excellence and overall customer satisfaction creeping up.”
And long term?
“Support for a new home for Virgin Atlantic to be delivered by the end of the decade in Terminal 2.”
Is that even possible?
“It is possible. It’s already in the plan anyway, right? Not all of Terminal 2, the core Terminal 2.”
There is literally nothing for them at T3 and no evidence whatsoever show that, QR would either stay at T4 because of their recent renovations to the lounges and check in area or move to their closest partner terminal which is Terminal 5
I think any plans by airlines to update lounges etc will be parked until this initial conversation with the key stakeholders has concluded and a clearer picture of what if any changes might be coming down the line.
While KL/AF may have some flow from VS and DL their LHR operation is designed around o/d so being in the same terminal as the rest of ST isn’t key for them. DL and VS? Yes.
With respect, being against Genocide and killing children is not “derangement”
It is being human.
Since the closure of the Malaysia Airlines Golden Lounge in T4, I never really understood why they haven't moved to T3 to join their OW partners. Malaysia has 2 flights a day with a 12 hour gap in between so surely there must be capacity for them over at T3.
If I'm not mistaken also, there were talks of JAL and AY moving permanently to T5 to join BA and Iberia post COVID.
AF-KL in T3 was great but it would be better for DL and VS to head over to T4. It's not a bad terminal. The SkyTeam lounge before it closed was pretty good. AF-KL had been mulling their own branded lounge too.
Terminal 3 is ghastly, notwithstanding its lounge opportunities.
It is old, poorly laid out making it hard to navigate, and has a nasty (contracted out presumably) security company with vicious, petty employees guaranteed to turn your day to shit after they are done with you.
The terminal to terminal busses at LHR are abysmal . They are not all that frequent and fill up rapidly, with unbelievable amounts of luggage, then meander all around the airport and beyond to the point you wonder it you've gotten on the Gatwick transfer bus by accident. Easier to head down to the Underground and train it (except if you have 43 pieces of luggage).
Sky Team also operates from Terminal 2 - SAS. My understanding is that a move to T4 should be coming because of their move into Sky Team. That would fit with the underusage of T4 as described in the article.
My question remains unanswered - how is that *desperate*? It’s a proposal and something that is being considered!
As I mentioned above, with T2 expanding into the space of T1, T3 will be the next terminal to be demolished. If the proposed plan (granted, subject to change) for a toast rack formation from the current T5 to T2 materialises, it would be a natural development for Virgin to move into what is currently T2. Let’s not forget Shai has also recently called for terminals to be given to third party operators to run because he also has good relationships with other interested parties who would like to become terminal operators!
yes great idea BZ, so the released Israeli hostages and family members can be witnesses and provide testimony when they trial Hamas terrorists/rapists/murders
Which came first the chicken or the egg? If they build a new runway first and have no additional gates / apron space then they can't expand the flights!
And as others mention building new gates isn't just about expanding, it is about operational efficiency and modernisation.
Not sure what terminal shuffle will happen but what I would like to see at that airport is 24hour service. There is no sensible reason to having a few hours of curfew.
In addition to the separately need third runway LHR really should have an inter-terminal people mover rather than having to take the train between 3 & 5. On a somewhat related note some government imbecile a few years ago stopped duty free purchases at brand stores ( Chanel, Hermes, LV, etc.) so the UK has lost a ton of sales.