Virgin Australia will be launching one of the world’s longest Boeing 737 routes…
Continue reading: Virgin Australia Adds Tokyo Flights… With 737 MAX!
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Darwin would be a shorter route actually, surprised they're not considering that one. Darwin could also be better banked for onward connections potentially, given its more central location
@Willem Japanese tourists go to Cairns -- at least they once did before Covid -- but they have little interest in Darwin.
Furthermore, Jetstar already serves Cairns to NRT, whereas no airline is currently operating Darwin to Tokyo. Granted, the Virgin flight will be going to HND instead, which could be more convenient for some folks, though I imagine.it will be hard to compete against a well-established low cost airline in that corridor
Not impressed with Virgin Australia. They cancelled our flight from Gold Coast to Melbourne a few Sundays ago, emailing us in the middle of the night for an 8:30 am flight. They booked us on a flight the next day even though there were other options on other airlines (or via Brisbane, an hour away), and when we asked for help from the agent to book us on one of them, she said she couldn't help. We had to pay 2x to get there same day on Qantas in economy what we'd originally paid for our cancelled business class flight. Though Qantas has yet to send us a receipt for that flight.
I’m not sure even the Japanese would go for this unless the fares are super cheap- Jetstar has CNS/NRT & CNS/KIX sown up using their
787’s, so not sure the most loyal VA customers would support this service on a 737 no what the config, imagine sitting in a centre seat for 7 hours - NO
Yeah last time I was in Cairns it was surprising how many Japanese tourists there were. Just about every restaurant had a Japanese speaker on staff and menus in Japanese as well. So I don't think this is a throwaway route or just to hold a slot, there is (or was at least) considerable demand from JP->Cairns. Now how many people want to sit on a 737 overnight when there are flat bed options...
Jetstar doesnt have lie flat seating though? so the product wouldn't be any different
the same people who fly jetstar to HNL when QF and HA are options. For the budget tourist who flies coach, there's not much difference between a Y seat on a 737 or 787.
A bit more information has been posted by the Virgin Australia media team, including limited sake fares and amenities offered on board;
Historically, Japan - Cairns was extremely popular: several 747s (QF and JAL) would be lined up at the small CNS Int terminal each morning. Tourists would visit the Great Barrier Reef and World Heritage Daintree Rainforest, etc., and had the option of a round trip returning via BNE, SYD, MEL, etc.
The 2007 GFC put a dent in all of that, Japanese investment in local real estate crashed, and QF turned to economy only "Australian Airlines" (767s) before setting up the Jetstar 787 services to NRT and KIX from CNS.
There may be some benefit to travellers being able to fly in / out of HND rather than NRT (which is serviced by Jetstar).
Singapore Airlines already flies 737 MAX into both Cairns and Darwin direct to Singapore, although business class on those flights have the lie-flats (unless substituted with the recliner 737 800s): I flew DRW-SIN a few weeks ago and it was a most comfortable flight.
For context, it has just been announced that QF plans DRW-SIN fights on E190s.
Let's see what business class seats end up on the VA MAX !!! United miles should be redeemable for these flights...;)
That’s an awfully long flight on a 737. First/Business will probably be comfortable, but there’s going to be a lot of miserable travelers sitting behind that curtain.
Forget First JH, it's not on offer! Even the Business seat is 2nd rate being only a recliner. Fancy paying a Business fare HND-CNS for a full-on red-eye with a recliner? No, me neither! Might as well do Economy, or better still, fly someone else.
If Virgin keep the fares low, this could work with Cairns based travellers going to Japan, especially with the connections ANA would provide to Europe and the US,
However unless you’re a die hard Virgin fan, I don’t see people from Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane flying on a 737 to Cairns only to then transfer to another 737 for a 7.5 hour flight.
Melbourne and Brisbane have thrice weekly services to HND with Qantas which has a pretty decent business class product on the a330,
Sydney also has 2 daily flights to HND with ANA who have a superior product, as well as Qantas and JALs daily flights to HND as well.
VA are being financially supported by the QLD government on this route which is why it’s flying out or CNS, not Darwin
I beg to differ, given the same seat the extra space for getting up and moving about, and better cabin pressure in 787 make it significantly better than 737 for such a long flight. I think you are very much in the minority thinking they are the same
This route has always been about Japan originating passengers, so the ex-AU traffic is not as important nearly as much.
95% of your standard leisure travelers know nothing about the differences between the 2 aircraft…so make no assumptions.
We that follow the aviation sites know this…everyone else, not so much.
This is about getting Japanese tourists to Australia. Period. Nothing to do about taking Australians over Japan to Europe or the US. There are better ways to accomplish that. Cairns is relatively small and doesn’t generate much US or Europe traffic. What a bizarre idea.
Just to note that Boeing is for the most part delivering 737 MAX8s and 9s on time. The MAX 7 and 10 are the models that do not meet certification requirements now.
Batik Air Malaysia also use 737 max to operate KUL-MEL route which is much longer than this
Simple reason - "Slot Squatting"! Haneda is heavily slot-restricted, and Virgin Australia received a pair of HND slot back in 2019 (originally planned for BNE-HND). If they don't use the slot, they will lose it and the slot will allocated back to other airlines in Australia (i.e. Qantas). Virgin Australia definitely aren't happy to see Qantas getting HND slot for free this time. Without long haul fleet now, they only have a few options like CNS or DRW to choose.
Yes, this is about Japanese tourists. When CO/CS flew GUM-CNS, it was all about connecting Japanese to Cairns.
Correction re longest 737 MAX route: MEL-KUL on Batik Air is now the longest, used to operate via DPS but is now nonstop and about 150 miles longer than BSB-MCO. Currently in the air as I type this, 8:08h flight duration, 8:35h scheduled.
Yeah, this article feels a little light on analysis and moderately cynical. Look, I love a good premium product but I see no particular need for a longish route to have a fancy premium cabin just because it's long, especially if there isn't demand for it. Cairns is largely a tourist destination that's currently lacking great direct connections to other parts of Asia. I see no reason that VA need to adopt a special product or aircraft for a single route if they can be sufficiently profitable from the rest of the plane, as plenty have been (FI's product is not much better and they pair together many oddball cities). There's plenty of midhaul narrowbody flights like this across North America, South America, and the Atlantic that offer similar products and are a success.
I think you are missing the biggest element in starting this route. The Queensland Government (Cairns is part of Queensland) is subsidising the route in order to attract Japanese tourists. I think without the subsidy, the route would not have happened at all. Right now, they are competing on a route also served by Jetstar but to the less convenient Narita airport. Also, Virgin will have slightly better service offerings compared to Jetstar.
TRUE!!! An CO 737 then was well booked when i flew them a couple times, so i guess the fare and the comfort of NOT needing to connect is valueable!
737MAX . . . mo matter what model of that plane . . . you could try to pay me, i would NOT get on that plane!
that's why it is getting tougher to find decent flights in the US from A-B . . . except DELTA as most airlines now use that old design plane from BOEING.
....wait 'till you find out that you've just described a N.American transcon and/or flight to Hawaii, westbound in winter. :-/
As someone who's flown Virgin since the age of 15 (I'm about to turn 30), it's good to see them getting back into Long Haul International, and I hope this is a sign of things to come.
However, while I'm looking forward to seeing 737 MAX fly with Virgin Oz, I'm finding myself skeptical of its proposed use for Cairns to Tokyo-Haneda. No details have been released on the cabin that will be installed on MAX, or what amenities will be available, including IFE or Onboard Wi-fi. While refinements in cabin air quality are one thing, A lack of higher level amenities and IFE/Wi-fi will be a bad call if you ask me. More so, if the seat design and arrangement remains the same as the Short Haul International and domestic fleets, I can't see it being a comfortable experience for those in Economy (and maybe even in Business if lie-flat seats are not being used).
Unless Virgin ups its game with IFE/Wi-fi offerings or brings Wide-bodies back, it's effectively offering a second-rate product on a brand new aircraft against QF and JQ and their older wide-bodies, which have proper IFEs on Tokyo flights that don't require a passenger-BYO phone/tablet to act as the host device as per the current offering from Virgin.
And don't ask me why, but I was kinda hoping Virgin was announcing the return of Wide-bodies with the commencement of these flights. Obviously, I was wrong. 🙁
This has nothing to do with "loyal Jetstar customers". This has everything to do with Japanese tourists coming to the beaches of this area of Australia, most of whom are just looking for the cheapest fare and who dont have loyalty to any Australian carrier. As others have mentioned, also, it's being subisidized by the local government, who want these tourists back. So nothing to do with any of the traditional things people think of here.
Getting to and from DRW from any of the major Australian cities is an absolute pain in the butt and generally incurs an overnight return leg of 4-5 hours on a 737 !!!
Unfortunately, DL just ordered a crap-ton of them as well. So have about 2more years before B6 and F9 more or less become your only stateside reprieve.
@ Frazzie
All good, but also:
Surely, we can assume for now that the biz seats will at least be similar to JQ biz (i.e. premium economy standard).
The biz fares reflect this at about AUD2000 return, which is cheaper than JQ at AUD2500.
True biz class originating CNS via BNE /SYD etc would be close to AUD8000.
According to a review just published in Executive Traveller there was no WiFi on Qantas biz class international A330 services into SE Asia.
On some QF flights on 737s (thus presumably some transcon's) there is no IFE unless you bring your own tablet / laptop.
Don't forget that the VA 737s offer economy X with extended legroom for those festering in economy.
Don't forget that if you travel economy to connect in SYD you'll already have about 3 hours of travel each way going in the wrong direction (almost half the journey time CNS-HND) and on QF you then a 10 hour flight SYD-HND, which runs overnight in both directions - thus 26 hours in economy rather than 14 hours, including 20 hours of red eye rather than 7 hours.
These flights are probably intended to influx Japanese tourists to FNQ.
That all said, in the good old days, when those full service 747s and 767s flew several times per day between CNS and Japan, some in the tourist industry in CNS noted the importance of a sophisticated product - QF messed with that when they changed over to a SYD centric model and left the local market with economy only options.
FWIW QF also nixed the full service 767s that used to fly the CNS-DRW-SIN route.
I don't think those in the airlines and local travel industry bodies have worked out you need the full service product to attract tourism across the marketplace - certainly the local tourism advocacy bodies appear to be woefully ineffective and it's disappointing to see taxpayers money being splashed around, if the local tourism industry isn't "in touch" with the market they are seeking to attract.
Sad to say that the established hotels are tired (Hilton, Pullman, Harbour Lights, Shangri-La) and many of the "better" restaurants struggle to offer a consistent product.
A final point is that JQ has a tarnished record for reliability between CNS and NRT / HND. If VA can manage its operation effectively that can create a competitive advantage.
FWIW being able to route through Tokyo is extremely effective way for FNQ folk to access Europe - as a FF-er I can now ride CNS-HND for 59,000 Velocity points or 45,000 United miles (one way) and pick up any number of options (usually I take BA first into LHR) with just about 18 hours of air travel, cutting 7 hours out of the flying time via BNE or SYD each way.
The recently added SQ flights between CNS and SIN are similarly handy (although there is little redemption availability in biz).
The utility of CNS to Japan is also enhanced by the current lack of CNS-HKG options.
Except, glenn t, that the fares reflect the product at AUD2000 return, rather than AUD8000 (USD1400 versus USD5000).
This is more for the Japanese getting to North QLD because its very popular for them, but no the other way around
A 737 MAX is a no on any sector for a start, then a narrowbody single aisle 7.5 hour flight is a definite no way! Free up the slots so someone else operating better aircraft eg 787 or A330 can use them
Wrong, Wrong !!!
It will work both ways to and from Cairns in Far North Queensland.
I am one of a group of people who have already booked on the Virgin Australia service out of Cairns to Tokyo (Haneda) for July 2023 and other people are talking about using it. The VA service is very well priced and gets you closer to Tokyo than the Jetstar service to Narita.
Qantas and JAL originally had 5 flights daily from Cairns to Japan including 2 flights daily to Tokyo (Narita). However, since Jetstar took over the service it has deteriorated with just 2 flights daily to Japan and even some of those have been moved to the Gold Coast route since it was created. Jetstar don't have enough long distance planes to handle all the longer distance routes on which they wish to operate. All I can say is good on Virgin Australia.
I’m booked on a Virgin Australia flight from Brisbane to Haneda the first week of March. Then onward to Niseko for skiing, The return fare from Brisbane of $A 1,100 was too good to pass up. We’ll see how my body holds up in the cheap seats.