Duringmy Aria Suite Adventure to Hong Kong, I had an extended layover at Seoul Incheon Airport, prior to departing to New York in Korean Air’s A380 first class. Having recently reviewed the Korean Air Business Lounge, I was looking forward to checking out the Korean Air First Lounge, as I hadn’t visited in many years.
Continue reading: Review: Korean Air First Lounge Seoul Incheon Airport (ICN)
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Good morning! (assuming you're writing your reports from Sapporo)
Speaking of Korean, they apparently have unveiled their refreshed livery and brand with an official unveil on the 11th.
I figured I break the news to you and you'd probably want to break the news and give your thoughts yourself.
It seems like case of style over substance in some regards, especially considering the bathroom/shower situation..
I like the idea of the private pods, but it somehow looks goofy and cramped. I feel LH pulls it off better with the seating groups divided by the white 1/2 walls, and the grey tapers hanging from the ceilings. Just looks sleeker.
Typical skyteam airline to have its F lounge get 3 stars.
On some level, this appears to just be cultural.
Props to Ben for recognizing that a difference in service patterns in a part of the world that is unfamiliar to you may be merely a difference and not an inferiority. This level of self awareness puts Ben in the top quintile of EQ worldwide.
As to the substantive matter of whether the difference actually is cultural, sadly I have no idea because I'm not Korean, have never been to Korea, and have no special insight into the matter. That's what you want in a lawyer - someone who knows what they know and knows what they don't know.
(Skadden does have a Seoul office.)
except Ben is in the top 0.1% of the world in terms of travel exposure
Korea is not Taiwan or Japan or Singapore or Hong Kong.
what they do works for them
That's what you want in a lawyer
Have you been the guy by the name of "BigLaw V10 Partner" the whole time?
The drink selection isn’t very First Class. Maker’s Mark isn’t the most exciting bourbon to look forward to.
@Ben, were there call buttons around to summon staff? (The Korean reader's comment you quoted got me thinking)
I have had the occasion over the years to travel to Korea via Korean Air in both F & J from SFO. I agree that the service style is unique and quite different from Japan, Singapore etc. I stopped flying KE after 2 trips. Delta far superior IMO.
Well, I think the underlying cause (and this is hard for any airline to fix) is that just because some executive decided to spend a bunch of money on something, doesn't mean it was executed with good taste. Or that the hour-by-hour operation of the place is conducted with the right level of style and behavior. That is a hard thing to ingrain into a staff without someone clearly at the helm. This is just another airport lounge that is on autopilot, designed to look somewhat nice, but without any follow through with someone enforcing what it is supposed to "feel like" on the ground.
OMG! They have Kendall Jackson wine in their First Class lounge! I can hardly wait to visit. (Not.)
Yes, they're a cringe-poster that was talking about high school math competitions as some sort of indicator of success lmao.
Worth noting that only KE marketed first flights have access. Buying a DL F ticket doesn’t grant any ground services access - frustrating given fares are usually the same. I always buy DL ticket stock as my plans constantly change and dealing with KE is a nightmare. It’s frustrating the ground experience isn’t offered for DL F fares, even with the supposed ‘preferred partnership’
“(Skadden does have a Seoul office.)”
Why do you care? You’re not a lawyer and you don’t work at Skadden. You’re a sock-puppet screen-name lawyer wannabe.
Pre-COVID, I was on a KE redemption first class fare from SIN to SEA with my wife. At the time of booking, both segments for my wife were in F. In my case, the first segment was in F and the second segment in J with me on the waitlist for F. The same # of points was required for each of us. When we arrived in ICN the staff were adamant that I could NOT enter the F lounge because my connection was in J (this is different from what Ben posted about access). It didn't matter that I had just come off of an F flight. It didn't matter that my wife had access. It didn't matter that I showed that I paid the same # of miles and it didn't matter that I was on the waitlist and there were open seats in F (which I eventually did clear). I had my wife enter the lounge and then I just pressured the staff, asking for a supervisor. After 30 minutes, I had wore them down and they relented. Now that I was in, I had the opportunity to wait an hour for the one shower in the men's bathroom. At the time, Piper champagne was a bottle too far so they only served Prosecco. KE F is like the old BA F...a great business class.
Well put - I'd say this sums up KE in general. The whole operation just kinda works. No strategy, no vision, just a global, somewhat reliable, bare bones airline.
I have my own thoughts on what happens here in Korea when corners are cut, but I'll save them. However, I will say that this is what we longtime Asiana elites have to look forward to. Asiana already stopped upgrading/fixing their lounges, and there's no reason to expect Korean Air, with a newly acquired monopoly, to spend any money to improve. As long as they have a "first class lounge" then it's first class by definition, no matter that their competitors are laughably better.
hahaha... this line made me chuckle: "I guess the crews at US airlines that do the bare minimum really don’t provide bad service, but rather, they just provide service geared at Korean passengers." good perspective! haha
I believe you are correct.
No access for F > J unless departing flight has no F.
This is a well known issue for DL flyers who earn more miles.
Never tried this yet, but I think DL can sell a KE marketed ticket, you might have to do it over the phone.
Since I'm never going to pay that much for what KE First offers, I can't confirm that will marketed by KE is enough or it needs to be on KE stock.
Some recent experience would be nice.
Tim and his fluff again.
Did DOT statistics tell you Ben is "in the top 0.1% of the world in terms of travel exposure"?
But you can't argue with the weirdo who proclaim Delta as the best in the world (and SEA). And the A350-1000.
Just like how Timmy use words to fool people. He's not completely wrong.
0.1% of the world is like 8 million people. That probably includes some Gold medallion who never even been to more than 3 countries, Europeans who never left EU, Chinese who don't even know what is Panda Express.
Suddenly 0.1% becomes a culture expert?
Tim just use a tiny fact to fluff 10 paragraphs of fluff.
Typical Tim fluff.
Can you please share your thoughts on OZ F lounge, even during their best times?
Don't be a hypocrite. You can call on KE whatever you want, but coming from OZ lounge? You don't have a much different benchmark.
Can you show the other side of the tag?
This is actually a new tag design.
The A380 was still available over a year ago.
Time to burn all those miles.
Ben, I'm glad you mentioned my comment!
And I'd like to say there's a huge different between Korean service and US FAs doing the bare minimum. Korean Air staffs/FAs will come to you in a few seconds when you press a call button, and they'll be happy to do whatever you want ASAP "as long as you tell them exactly what you want."
I don't think the US FAs doing the bare minimum would come to you in seconds when you summon them and do the task ASAP. They would ignore the call button as long as they can.
Most Koreans basically hate interacting with strangers. Therefore, "DO NOT DISTURB" is the default in Korean service, however, it doesn't mean they ignore you. When you call them and tell exactly what you want, they'll bring it ASAP. They don't do it proactively because "I don't read your mind 100%" is the norm for them. Unless you tell them, they don't know what you want. I know it's a huge difference from the rest of the world, but this is how it is.
Want your drink to be refilled? Press the call button and ask for it. Want your trash to be collected? Press the call button and ask again. You should tell them each task you want, then they'll have it done quickly. Don't need to feel sorry for them, they'll be happy to do what you want even if you press the button every few minutes. This is how to make the most out of Korean service. They don't "dare to guess" what you want unless you tell them exactly.
It also applies to their work culture. Most employees do just what their boss tell them to do, no more than that. Being proactive is risky because it can be sometimes against your boss or client's will. "Don't think out of what you're told to do" is how most Koreans are educated since their childhood.
And I have a question to you, Ben. I've read your old(10+ years ago) reviews of Korean Air and they were mostly positive, which is very different from your recent reviews.
Have the service of Korean Air deteriorate? Or the competitors have changed? I know they've cut cost in a lot of their soft product(meal service, inflight bar in A380, etc.), but I guess the service of the FAs and staffs would be mostly the same. Have they really changed?
That entry hallway is not up to par. They probably thought marble equals luxurious and left it at that. The fix is easy and low cost: add some artwork on the walls and some plants. That is all that is needed to make the hallway look less drab and sterile. Did their interior designer not really consider this?
I don't want to equate an airline to its nation, but given that Korea has such a beautiful sense of aesthetics and cares about curating appearances and details (think k-dramas), Korean Air's decor and aesthetic choices are a little confounding.
@Eskimo — I flew OZ F in march 2018, just months before they discontinued F. Instead of the old Victorian library F lounge, I was directed to a new one/temporary one, next to the business east lounge. This is now the business suite lounge. It was pretty nice actually, way better than the dark and gloomy old one. Looked way cozier and nice than this KE thingy.
As long at the ticket is KE marketed you have access to the lounge. Sucks to go through the hassle of getting your ticket changed to get it marketed since AF F has none of this issues. Cant even access the lounge coming off a F flight from the US since it will considered a different day and your connecting flight may only have business for the next leg.
Did any of the lounge pods have call buttons? That would explain the lack of service if they did.
I had the same experience the first time dining in Korea and wondering how to get the waiter to come over and give us the check. Everything is based around the call button.