For the return portion of our trip to Kyoto, we flew Japan Airlines’ Boeing 787-9 business class from Osaka to Los Angeles. This is one of the few flights between Osaka and the United States mainland, so it sure is convenient to not have to make a detour through one of Tokyo’s airports.
Continue reading: Review: Japan Airlines Business Class Boeing 787 (KIX-LAX)
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Nice review as usual, Ben. Will add this config to the black list...
Speaking of JL's 787s, does KIX-LAX normally see 789 with Sky Suite III? I was somehow under the impression that Sky Suite III (mainly if not exclusively onboard 789) is for regional flights such as TYO-SIN. It would make sense with such density and space for an intra-Asia flight. Sky Suite (Apex) is the predominant on US flights, i.e. 773/789 (TYO-BOS/LAX/ORD).
Cabins look bland but overall, that looks a lot better than anything you will get on a US carrier.
It is mainly for regional flights but KIX-LAX always gets subpar seats, I think it was one of the last routes with JAL’s old angle flat seats. KIX generally is a pretty low yield airport, so it’s not going to get a low density, spacious product
JAL business class is overated. I think you were overly generous prasing their soft product, which, based on my experience of many flights with them, is on par with their hard product. The service is mechanical and the food, while nicely presented, is bland.
"can we just acknowledge how bland Japan Airlines’ cabin finishes are? Could you pick duller finishes than this?"
I'd argue that IB's interiors (grey seats/consoles/entire cabin basically) take the cake... the new J on the A350s feature some (faux presumably) wood on the center console, but it isn't much better
In the center seats, the person on the left will effectively sleep on the floor. I like the idea but having been through this it does feel weird. Like a mandated peeping Tom position.
@ Terence -- Yeah, unfortunately this route does regularly get this product, I suspect due to the lack of competition in the market, plus it being more leisure oriented.
@ Regis -- Not necessarily disagreeing, but just curious, which airlines do you think have non-mechanical service and non-bland food?
The product on the 787 is reflective of the relatively small market from secondary (non-Tokyo) locations to the US and the load was even worse than normal considering how strong the Japanese Yen is compared to the USD. As much as United wants to argue otherwise, actual data shows that traffic between the US and Japan is down 20%, the largest drop between any major East Asian countries except for China and HKG. The US is simply not an economically viable travel option for nearly as many Japanese as it used to be. Given that there are typically far more Japanese tourists inbound to the US vs. Americans visiting Japan, the strong dollar is hurting inbound Asian tourism much more so than to/from Europe which is heavily outbound American-driven.
Very uninspiring looking Cabin and Service. I have always found that airlines of Asia are overrated. I have never been satisfied with them and actually find them quite poor. I would like to see a larger focus placed on customer service and innovation with respect to Cabin design. They fail to understand that while asians are abnormally small, the rest of the world is not, thus peoe are packed in like sardines in a tin can onboard the Asian airplanes.
The food is also horrendous and not at all enjoyable. Once again, catering only to asians as opposed to the rest of the world.
“The food is also horrendous and not at all enjoyable. Once again, catering only to asians as opposed to the rest of the world.”
There is a western menu. Ben just didn’t review it. FWIW, I’ve always enjoyed JAL’s Japanese menus. But I’m not narrow-minded.
In my opinion, this seat is great and has room for you to actually put stuff during the flight. I slept very well, and Ben did sleep 5h.
Given that there’s far more Asians than people of any other ethnicity, perhaps you should reconsider your point of view and you’ll find that others are abnormally big?
That JAL pillow is way too thin even for Japanese like me, so I think it is not because of cultural preferences.
KIX does not receive much love from JAL as lower-yield, more leisure-oriented market (still better than ANA, which only flies to China from KIX), so that is why lounge, seat are subpar compared to their flight originating from Tokyo.
I think most of the airlines just chose the models presented by seat makers (Safran, Zodiac, Collins etc) so there could not be huge differences between Asian and non-Asian airlines in terms of business class seat width/length.
And typically Asian airlines provides more generous legroom for economy seats - Japanese airlines provides 33-34 inch while Delta provides 31-32 inch and Lufthansa provides 31 inches.
KIX is a difficult market and a very limited one, for flights to and from the US. The product reflects it.
This has to be one of the most laughable/ignorant comments on here. Legacy Asian airlines generally have more pitch in economy than their western counterparts despite catering to smaller people. Asian carriers generally have at least 32,", with NH/KE/OZ/JL all having 34" in economy (as opposed to western airlines which are almost always 30"- 31"). There really isn't much variation in terms of seat size in business/first across the board because products are pretty standardized. You also ignore the fact that airlines like CX/SQ/NH are generally innovators in terms of their premium products. Your comment about Asian food is a matter of personal taste and based on your surname, reads like someone who grew up on a diet of fried pork and fast food. If you don't like the Asian food, then get the Western options. What's "horrendous" to you is actually considered normal to the majority of the world.
Probably not enough travelers on the routes in general, KIX is just a smaller market (in addition to being leisure oriented) too
The great AA redemption values make me disappointed I missed the SimplyMiles promotion last year. Aeroplan charges 70k for SFO-LIS while AA charges 60k for Japan-US business class and 85k for US-India business class on Qatar. There is so much value in AA miles.
Feels like everybody and their mother (including me and mine) have been going to Japan since it reopened! Some people even twice within a year! Surprised traffic is down by that much, but your point around Japanese tourists makes sense.
I don't think UA cares all that much if traffic overall is down 20% so long as they maintain their market share for business travelers (who care probably less sensitive to currency fluctuations than tourists)
I'm curious as to why the multiple seat types and configurations. Like with the 789, you have the reverse herringbone as well as the Apex suites.
Since the new seats will apparently have a surcharge it seems unlikely they'll be open for redemptions, at least for a while. Not to worry, Ben is wealthy enough to pay cash for one so we can check it out ASAP.
You can afford to fly business class, and you are complaining about little things like cabin design, etc, etc. Wow! I've never been fortunate enough to be able to afford anything more than economy class, but I have always thoroughly enjoyed all of my more than 10 trips to Japan. The expectation of landing in Tokyo was great. No airline food is perfect, but be thankful you can eat!.
@ Mike O.: not sure of the original reasoning behind JAL having different seats - perhaps cost, maybe the Apex seats weren’t available yet, or maybe the density.
But as to why JAL keeps the two different types of layouts - as Tim pointed out, it is a less premium product used on a less premium route. JAL also uses the reverse herringbone 789s on intra-Asia mid-haul flights like NRT-SIN. (Though it uses Apex 789s on HND-SIN.) I found the reverse herringbone seat to be fine for a 6 hour NRT-SIN flight. Though I think I am shorter than Ben and don’t have the same footwell complaint he does.
It's too bad KIX doesn't have the traffic/yields to support nonstop service to the U.S. Kansai is a very nice efficient airport.
Most US carriers have tried to make KIX work with little success. I think DL was the last (and NW prior) with service to HNL. Not sure if it was restored post-pandemic.
Hey Ben - in terms of booking, how far out did you find availability for the saver 60,000 level for JAL Business with AA?
I have been trying to find any cabin on JAL for SFO-TYO in March 2024 with an AA award ticket since the 11 month window opened up in April 2024 and it has been nothing! I know it is cherry blossom season but sheesh - they could release a few economy seats at least. Now I'm hoping something may open up last minute...
Having flown five Premium Economy segments between LAX and MEL on Qantas since Australia reopened, I was grateful to fly round trip on JAL 787 LAX to KIX.
It's nice for me to have comparative benchmarks like Qantas Premium Economy for appreciating the quality of the JAL seats between LAX and KIX on the 787.
I can think of high quality Business Class seats like Singapore Air A350 between Seattle and Singapore as a special flying experience by itself. Am glad it didn't diminish my subjective experience on the JAL LAX to KIX redemptions I was fortunate to find.
"You can afford to fly business class, and you are complaining about little things like cabin design, etc, etc. Wow!"
Clearly you're new here. Welcome to OMAAT!
“It's too bad KIX doesn't have the traffic/yields to support nonstop service to the U.S.”
You mean other than the flight Ben just took and reviewed? I assume you mean support *more* nonstop service.
Why are you even on this website in the first place? If someone spent their money/points on such a flight, they're allowed to prefer one carrier/seat to another. And this information helps people decide.
Secondly, you throw shade at Ben for being able to fly business class and make out how over privileged he is and imply he is a bad person, and then in same comment drop that you've flown to Japan ten times. Seriously? Pot, kettle, black....
Next, if you have been able to afford to fly to japan ten times, you could have flown less times and instead of flying economy you could have flown business class.
The plane cycles through Haneda-Honolulu-Osaka-Los Angeles-Osaka-Honolulu-Haneda. Yes it is always Skysuite III.
There are no planes based in KIX, so they need to find a logic to cycle the planes in and out of KIX.
business travelers make up only a portion of the total revenue on a flight and that is true of Japan. The volume of total passengers is boosted by the value of the Yen relative to the dollar and the weak yen makes travel to the US not viable for most Japanese right now.
UA keeps Japan working because Tokyo is also a hub through their JV partner which means that they are carrying passengers on their US to Japan flights that are connecting elsewhere - and the same is true for the Japanese carriers.
UA's decision to drop NRT-HNL as well as to ask to replace IAH-NRT w/ IAH-HND shows that the reduced local market is being felt at every Japanese airport but, because HND is the only one that is frequency limited w/ the US, it is the only one that is worth holding onto.
KIX has never acted as a hub comparable to the two Tokyo airports.
HA is by far the weakest US carrier right now. The weakness in the Japanese market because of the strength of the yen combined w/ WN's growth to/from/within Hawaii is providing financial challenges that HA likely will not be able to overcome.
The Japanese carriers have never been able to generate finances as strong as their US counterparts.
And UA generates far less profit per seat mile flying the Pacific than DL does.
Everyone of the carriers flying from the US to Japan are for-profit companies but some do a far better job of making money than others.
Having just flown this seat after flying AF’s new business class seat in bulkhead row 9 and the VS A350 seat in bulkhead row 1 (and having previously flown Polaris numerous times as well as AC Signature, AF BEST J, VS herringbone J, OS 777 throne seat, EVA 777 J, and both ANA and JAL F), I think this review dramatically overstated how cramped the seat is. I had no problem sleeping from right after dinner until breakfast, and I’m a pretty wide person. The seat is a perfectly fine J seat for 10+ hour flights. I also run pretty warm but still wore the cardigan
@Ben, I'd imagine this is product is still preferred over UA's Polaris seat on KIX-SFO.
Last time I flew on JAL from the US to Tokyo, they gave out cardigans to take home. Strange that you have to borrow them for the flight now.
I recently flew this exact product HNL-HND.
I agree w/ everything except our service was awful.
Besides being very regimented, my parents and I found the business class FAs rude (the premium economy ones were very nice), especially the senior one in the white coat which sort of set the tone for the rest of the crew. I initially thought it might be a language issue, but there were too many examples that gave us a very bad impression.
The seat was very uncomfortable and claustrophobic (I still can't figure out why because it looks the same as most reverse herringbone seats) and the IFE system is not intuitive and clunky.
I flew DL and my parents flew HA back and the service was so much better than JAL. It was my first unpleasant experience on an Asian airlines.