Qantas has just announced the details of its newest ultra long haul route, and it’s an exciting one…
Continue reading: Qantas Launching Perth To Paris Route In 2024
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
Apparently QF is focussing on leisure travel, as it does with Rome. In terms of business travel, with Perth being a large commodities and mining hub really only London (and to a much lesser degree Zurich) makes sense.
The only reason the operate via PER is that the 789 doesn't have the legs for SYD-CDG or MEL-LHR nonstop.
I would seriously question demand between Zürich and Perth. In addition to leisure travel, Paris has a lot of professional fairs and most swiss commodity traders are based in Geneva not Zürich (Trafigura, Mercuria, Gunvor, Vitol, Cargill CH), only Glencore is in Zug.
Their product might not be the most class leading but it’s definitely not mediocre.
@Ben - “and it cuts the current fastest travel time from Perth to Sydney by around three hours.” Shouldn’t that be Paris to Sydney?
Am wondering whether they will codeshare with Air France, seeing as they have reinstated their partnership via HKG and SIN.
You really don't like QF's onboard product do you, Ben? To be honest I think you're absolutely right. No aspect of QF's operations, except maybe the LAX and SYD F lounges, is industry leading anymore. If anything, it's industry-trailing. Not industry leading. Might be interesting to do a blog post on their decline, because it almost feels like a similar situation to the decline of Etihad that we saw a few years back, but stretched over more time. I remember reading about your dad's big birthday trip back in 2015, and how you were really disappointed in QF's onboard service. You even cancelled 4 segments (LHR-DXB-SYD-DXB-LHR) in QF F that you'd planned to take months after it, IIRC.
As an Aussie, I would agree that QF are not industry leading, but they're hardly mediocre. I've flown long haul on them 3 times this year (DFW-MEL, DFW-SYD). My only gripe is lack of wifi on long haul and the crappy Business lounge in SYD. I also think Joyce has a lot to answer for. I personally like the hard and soft product - but also agree lack of award space has always been an issue.
Great news! At the same time, you're right about the Qantas 787 experience. I feel like they didn't put nearly as much effort into their 787s as they did their A380s. The product on the 787s would be great for a transatlantic flight but when you're flying some of the longest routes in the world you'd expect considerably more. For instance, there aren't really any special spaces like lounges, bars, or designated stretching areas onboard when that would be very useful. (I'm not counting those small baskets or shelves in the galleys with snacks and junk food that pretty much all airlines have.) I still find it criminal that Qantas doesn't put 8-abreast seats in economy on their 787s when they operate flights of this length. And they still don't have Wi-Fi on any of their long-haul aircraft. People who don't live in the few cities that get the A380 get the short end of the stick when it comes to Qantas service.
Not sure what people want, geez. The QF 787 has least density so where is the praise for that, which airline has lounges in a 787, the same or similar seat is used on other airlines but not criticised , in my view good there's no wifi, there is not likely the traffic to put an A380 on the run but everyone outside the airline knows better. It's fashionable to knock qantas.
Maybe fly a bit more and get intobthe first class lounge. It's lovely. In case you missed it, the business lounge is to be refurbished.
Give me qantas any day over the likes of AA BA EK etc. Love the service and attention I get by qantas and its not necessarily in first.
Why are you so inconsistent when it comes to Qantas? From the review of their 787 business class:
"While there are a lot of airlines with staggered seats, Qantas’ seat has quite a few advantages, in my opinion:
Qantas makes these seats feel incredibly private thanks to the privacy shield they install
The seats generally feel more spacious than some other staggered products out there
Qantas chose incredibly sleek finishes; parts of the cabin almost feel like you’re in a luxury car, rather than an airplane"
"So yeah, overall this is an excellent hard product. Is it my favorite business class seat in the world? No, it’s not quite to the level of Qsuites or Apex Suites, but it’s up there. And it really is a gorgeous cabin".
That doesn't sound "totally mediocre" to me. Your only real complaint was that they don't serve enough food (which is at odds with the various references to being 'stuffed' in other reviews).
Your recent review of Qantas A380 First Class was also quite positive.
When you actually fly Qantas you're quite complementary. Why are you so determined to run them down otherwise?
“…seeing as they have reinstated their partnership via HKG and SIN.”
Really?
I flew AF SIN-CDG last month and neither saw nor heard a thing about it, not at the airport, not in the QF 1st lounge in SIN, nor on board AF257.
I don’t doubt that you’re correct, but usually airlines tout their codeshares, don’t they? Or maybe not…
One is still stuck with Qantas “service.”
Flew QF1 FC last month SYD-SIN and was wholly underwhelmed. I’ll continue to connect to AF via SIN for my MEL/SYD-CDG trips, thank you.
Only announced a few days ago
... after some considerable negotiations with Perth (PER) Airport, concerning a very long-standing stoush with airport management - who previously wanted QF to move from the QF Terminals 3-4 to the International Terminal. The new CEO (Vanessa Hudson) has done a fine job in getting this resolved, where the recently departed Alan Joyce couldn't.
100% agree, Chris ! I also see the term 'mediocre" being somewhat unfair.
QF is rated by SkyTrax as a '4 Star' carrier (yes, I know it is SkyTrax - but QF certainly doesn't subscribe to their .. ahem ... "subscription" service).
I'd suggest that if Ben regards QF as "mediocre" - particularly given his favourable reviews on QF across the Pacific, the its about time to check the US legacy carriers for their ratings which are generally 2-3 stars.
For ULH travel routes, it is pleasing to see that QF continues (along with SQ) to dominate the world of ultra long distance routes globally.
A plane consisting exclusively of Etihad Residence seats, unlimited $2k / bottle champagne and caviar, with every seat available at economy-level saver pricing. Anything else is for savages 😉
Qantas is quite a good airline but it has been through some very tough times recently (many self-inflicted) and if anything I would say the biggest issue isn't the business seat or lack of great pitch in premium economy etc, it is the poor staff morale. They have not be treated well, the PR damage to the airline by the CEO and the board is shocking and how Qantas management have treated the flying public has also been very disappointing. The staff are the face of the airline and they are hurt and it shows. The F lounges are fantastic, most business lounges are very good as well. Catering can definitely be improved onboard, and WiFi will be added once Viasat launches the APAC satellite or maybe sooner if they explore Starlink. It's a solid airline but has some repair work to do, which Boston Consulting Group is currently engaged in assessing and proposing solutions to. One Project Sunrise is up and running I truly hope these very turbulent times are a distant memory for the airline, or else SQ, Qatar and Emirates will be getting even more love from those flying overseas.
Btw, Qantas doesn’t sell you a ticket for a flight, it sell you the *notion* of a flight. It sells you a bundle of rights, according to Qantas.
“The ‘service’ Qantas relevantly offers is a bundle of contractual rights, which are consistent with Qantas’ promise to do its best to get consumers where they want to be on time.”
As a Perthite, I'm delighted to now have direct service to London, Rome and Paris.
A380 doesn't have the range for these flights anyway. And I find the 787 product as good or better than the A380 in QF business.
Is that bad? On the MEL-PER-LHR flight, the vast majority of those flying to London originate in Perth, so I suspect this will be similar.
If originating in Sydney the total travel time is 25 hours, but if you do the QF/AF codeshare and transit in SIN instead of PER the travel time is reduced to 23 hours. Personally I would rather transit in SIN and enjoy the F lounge there but this is a great flight if you are originating in PER obviously. 2 extra hours of travel time is not ideal, even using the EK codeshare is <24 hours. Some people wouldn't care but like quick connections when possible.
BCG's drones can't do much but cost cutting. Were McKinsey's sad sacks of shite unavailable?
I didn't say that the business seats themselves weren't good. I think they are. I meant more like the other cabins. Also, I notice that in the SFO-MEL review, Ben said he felt like the meal portions were too small for a flight of that length. I also saw travel blogger Jeb Brooks review PER-LHR and one complaint he had was that the amenity kits contained just the basics. Besides making the cabin relatively spacious, when designing the cabins, I feel like Qantas had the attitude that the routes their 787 is intended to fly are just like any long-haul route like JFK-LHR, LAX-NRT, or LHR-SIN when in reality they fly many of the longest flights in the world. While I think it's still a good long-haul product, at least in business, it lacks the extra things that would make it a good ultra-long-haul product. Look at what Singapore Airlines did with their A350ULR cabins for example. That's kind of like the extra thing I'm talking about.