Airlines sometimes publish mistake fares, which can happen due to a variety of factors. Qantas published one of these in first class a few days ago, and I think the airline is getting a bit too much praise for how it’s handling this.
Continue reading: Qantas’ $5,000 AUD First Class Mistake Fare…
Share your questions, experiences, and thoughts below.
I’m no fan of Qantas but I think their handling of this is impressive.
1) They responded quickly
2) They did not unilaterally cancel fares as was within their rights
3) They’ve proposed a very reasonable compromise which is Business Class at a respectable price (and most passengers will have the option to use their miles to further upgrade if they choose)
If you took the time to look through many of the affected passengers’ comments, you’d note that most people are entirely satisfied with the outcome and that makes it a win-win for both.
Qantas under the diabolical Alan Joyce was combative at all costs. This seems to be a common sense middle ground that benefits both parties. That’s to be applauded.
I don’t think $5000 is reasonably obvious; I’ve seen multiple flights on BA first class for £2500. The test should be “could this just be a really good deal?”, if the answer is yes then it’s not reasonably obvious as an error.
Fares ex-Australia are expensive.
$5000 return is a J fare to Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo). Fares to the USA or Europe generally hit 5 figures ($10k+), and FC another $5k on top of that (if not $20k as advertised).
I can find plenty of examples of F fares for $5k or less, but in this case it is well below what anyone would consider normal for the route.
Prior to 2020 Qantas regularly launched an international fare sale in Jan or Feb of each year and the cheapest F class fares were SYD-LAX return for $10,000 AUD (6,700~ USD) so $5,000 AUD return for J class is a great deal, especially given all the constraints on airlines the past few years, the LAX flights are often in excess of $24k which is more than you'd pay on Qantas to London which is a good 7 hours more flying time.
I love how you guys overthink this and don't think that getting 30 hours round trip in biz class for around $3300 USD "isn't all that great of a deal". 2024, the year of just not being impressed lmao. Nice job Qantas, I actually have respect for what they've proposed.
Lufthansa have recently been selling first class to HKG and back for less than €2500. Saudia currently have business class fares for marginally shorter distances (e.g. TUN-CGK) priced at ca. €800 return. I can't see how paying four times that can be 'a great deal'.
Allowing airlines to make commercial decisions on whether they sold something at the correct price makes a mockery of well-established principles of contract law. People who think that offering certain sectors this type of get-out clauses is a good idea are, whether consciously or not, essentially advocating for regulatory capture by powerful, unaccountable lobbies.
Is there any Australian statute or case law to support the assertion that Qantas were 'within their rights' to refuse to provide services for which they had already accepted money?
I certainly won't blame anyone who has agreed to the business class proposal, but I am not sure that their rationale would stand up in court- and I say that as someone who has been involved in successful civil claims against airlines, including around mistake fare cancellations, albeit in other jurisdictions.
This has nothing to do with comparing what Qantas had as a mistake fare to other airlines routes/fares. This is simply about, Qantas could have canceled all of those tickets which they are within their rights to do. Instead they gave those people the opportunity to have their fare booked in biz.
If the passengers who booked didn't think the fare was reasonable, then get a refund and move on. That's how mistake fares work. It's like when corporations make mistakes, you think society should hold their feet to the fire and force them to honor their mistake lmao. Get real dude.
I don't think a $5k first class ticket is a mistake that's "reasonably obvious in the fare price," and therefore Qantas does not have the right to cancel them. If it were $5 or even $500, then they might have a point, but unless I had prior experience booking first class tickets on this route, I wouldn't suspect $5k to be an error.
Yes, when corporations or anyone else makes mistake then they need to fess up and honor THEIR mistake. That's how adult life works. You don't get a bunch of "get out of mistake free cards" like baby Alonzo thinks should happen. If it were the customer who made the mistake and realized they mistakenly agreed to pay $50,000 when they thought it was $5,000, do you think the business would just say, "ok, no problem, and here's your money back"? Unlikely!!
Only airlines get to unilaterally walk away from legally binding contracts with such ease and impunity. No other industry or persons enjoy this priviledge. I bet if you mistakenly booked a non-refundable fare on Qantas and later sought to cancel the transaction Qantas would say too bad so sad.
Too good to be true, my ass. I bought a first class fare from Austin to BOM on BA, and it was *cheaper* than the biz fare for that particular set of flights (and I snatched it up with the 250% EQM credit blowing me past AS Gold 100K). Thus, I don't see how QF can argue it's too good to be true.
Tell me you've never been a CEO or ahigh ranking official without telling me you haven't been one. You're just apart of the donkey crew that thinks that corporations have to play by the same rules as you. They don't. Neither do wealthy people and neither does the government.
Life isn't fair, wear a helmet or hide under you bed for the rest of your life.
AA had a mistake fare a few weeks ago, RT F on QR from BAH to IAD/JFK/BOS for $2,000 RT, let me book it, and then just canceled and removed my ticket from my app a few days later. No communication at all.
The fare I saw was SYD-LAX *roundtrip* for ~$4,200AUD. So as for "..but as far as mistake fares go, it was hardly the most exciting one ever." This seems pretty darn exciting to me. An almost entirely captive route (while AA does currently have F it's hardly desirable and will go away, otherwise the route is only served by QF), with extremely limited award opportunities. Thus your only options for First class is to pay $19k-24k AUD, or get very, very lucky and snag a F award. This mistake fare seems pretty exciting to me in that context (especially since presumably you could credit this to AA or BA and earn some serious loyalty points).
@Alonzpo, could you please point us to the Australian legislation which stipulates that Qantas are 'within their rights' to unilaterally cancel contracts with consumers? Thanks.
Don't know and don't care. I ain't Australian.
Show me where you can take Qantas to court for what they did and come out victorious.
I have done with other airlines it in the UK and the EU. They didn't even wait for the hearing, they paid the claims up and deprived me of a fun day out in court.
Take Qantas to court then if you booked a ticket. I'm sure you'll come away thousands of dollars richer.
"could you please point us to the Australian legislation which stipulates that Qantas are 'within their rights' to unilaterally cancel contracts with consumers?"
I suspect you'll be hearing crickets... but any response should be interesting.
I haven't booked the fare so I won't be taking Qantas to court, but I am also not the type of person who talks with certainty about things about which they have no knowledge, so I cannot rule out the possibility of an airline being able to find a way out of their contractual obligations under Australian law.
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission have apparently made a statement about their interpretation of Australian Consumer Law to the effect that they would not hold an airline (or another business) to an incorrectly advertised offer, but would require that the error be corrected promptly and that appropriate remedies be offered to the customer. So, adding this to the Qantas terms and conditions would almost certainly allow them to cancel and refund mistake fares.
Mate you never have a positive thing to say about qantas, if this was qatar you'd be popping champagne. Get with it.
I fly this route in J. It is reasonably obvious to me that $AU5,000 is a really good R/T J fare. I'd be jumping on a J fare twice that. So, for F, it stands out as very low. That's why those who bought it are generally quite happy. They expected to get it cancelled, but getting J at that price is a great win. The BA comparison isn't relevant. J US to Aust is 3X J US to Europe.
Yeah the likes of Alonzo and Paul Weiss like "flexing" and sounding smart..."Tell me you've never been a CEO"...but nothing to back it up
Can you tell us what is good about Qantas? What is Ben missing? I think the only good thing about Qantas for him was the Qantas first class lounge at LAX.
How did all this happen? Did they input a bad code? Was the MX server down at the time? So many questions left unanswered. Perhaps the author will clarify...
@Stanley - hey, love your national pride. I've spent the last 20 years living my life between LAX/AUS/NYC and SYD/MEL/BNE...mostly traveling on QF (though sometimes I like an escapade via Asia). I love QF. Even in challenging flight circumstances they've always taken care of me...
...but I don't think it fair to criticize Ben for his observation, especially on a matter that people may be divided about.
So let's divorce this issue from QF. Let's focus on misfiled airfares, in general...and this is not about the "contract of carriage", it's about common courtesy and good business that builds itself on good-faith ("good will" does apply to a balance sheet actually, usually for brand value...even if not in these individual minutiae circumstances)
QF (or any other given airline) made the mistake, not the passenger. It's theirs to own. Simple as that. QF...OWN IT and MOVE ON (and learn whatever lesson needed)
@Leigh Hi Leigh. It is all right. No problem. Thank you for your insightful input on this topic.
For Qantas this would be the deal of the century (rolling date), and accordingly would be seen by most as an error fare.
Qantas is not known, in some circles, as the Queen of Mean for no reason!
Airfares originating in Australia have traditionally always been high. Asian bucket shop fares are not so lucrative these days as those economies become richer, but Jakarta and Cairo offer good opportunities still.
Spot on Ben - I personally feel they could have honoured the fares, as $5000 Australian dollars is still a lot of money per se. You are correct in saying that, overall, their loss is nil. It’s their decision though.
That said, it’s truly sad to see some of the comments from QF fanboys who cream their jeans whenever they think of the red kangaroo. They’re mainly male, Australian Boomers. Their sad devotion borders on idolatry, and it’s truly, truly pathetic.
Lots of comments by non-residents of Australia who seem to think AUD$5000 is not a big deal, and then cite other routes by other airlines which are far cheaper in first class.
Well firstly, airfares ex Australia are horrendously expensive in premium cabins. Secondly, Australians have been clobbered for so long with sky-high first class fares from QF (i.e. AUD$20,000+) that a first class fare of 'only' 5K would indeed appear to be great deal from QF. Context matters.
Very interesting, thanks. In that context, the offer of the business class journey looks more like a sort of 'appropriate remedy' and not, as some people suggest, a gesture of goodwill from a business which could just walk away from a contract without any consequences whatsoever.
300 tickets at a discount of approx. AUS$15k is 4.5 million bucks. That's a LOT of goodwill if Qantas honour the original ticket price in F!
Ok, all you geniuses in contract law ... The Australian version of "contract of carriage" and the disclaimers on Qantas own website have sections.that address mistake fares....
"3.12 Errors and mistakes
Sometimes mistakes are made and incorrect fares can be displayed. If there is an error or mistake that is reasonably obvious in the fare price and you have a Ticket and/or a confirmed booking, we may:
(a) cancel the Ticket and/or booking;
(b) provide you with a refund in accordance with 14 (Refunds);
(c) offer you a new Ticket at the correct fare price as at the time of the booking; and
(d) in the event that you accept the offer and pay the correct fare issue you with a new Ticket."
So- they are honoring the contract by cancelling. And yes, they get to decide "reasonably obvious". To which a 75% discount on FC would apply.
Lots of people here angry they can't game the system or get something they didn't pay for.
I agree with @Austin. I returned last night from a BA trip in F JFK-DUB RT and it cost me less that $4K USD. And when they changed my outbound by a few minutes, I was able to change to a more desirable outbound flight that hadn't been in the original sale. I also flew the La Premiere sale nearly a decade ago for ~$2K RT. Both were fare sales, not mistakes. So, if you don't how the Australian market, you can understand why $5000 RT looks like a sale, not a mistake.