Intra-Europe Business Class: Why Aren't The Seats Different?

It is not a real business class if the seat is the same seat as the economy seat. Period. No if or buts.

And yet 'First Class' in the USA domestically and outside the USA are also viewed completely differently.

The amount of Americans that tell me they 'flew First Class' on Virgin from the US to the UK don't get it when I say 'err Virgin Atlantic don't have First Class'.

I think there is so much information available for travellers these days - look at a review online, look at Youtube - that if you get a terrible shock when you arrive in Europe to find 'business class' is the same seat as economy, that's on the traveller.

It is worth also pointing out that in Europe airlines often compete with high speed rail. For example Eurostar trains carry ten times as many passengers per day as BA does between London and Paris and domestic flights within France or Germany are virtually non existent.

Maybe TK has real business class seats because their most traveled routes, IST to various cities in Germany, Paris, London, Brussels, are on average 3 hours long. I traveled with wide bodies on those routes several times.

Yes, Turkish has business class seats on single aisles planes (comparable to Premium Economy seats on two aisle planes).
But when flying from Western Europe (e.g. Lyon) to Asia, I prefer flying a short 45 minute flight in intra-Europe business class to then connect to the flat bed over a 3-hour feeder flight on a Premium Economy-Like seat to then connect to the flat bed.

Other than that, I am not the biggest fan of TK anymore since they use their single aisles for a lot of Asian and African destinations.

To be honest I don't really understand all the fuzz. Most euro flights are relativly short, 2-3 hours at most. With that in mind I'll must rather have decent service and a nice meal (honestly US carriers, a "premium snack basket" is the best you can manage during a 90 min flight?) rather than the bigger seats found in domestic first. If you are shocked by seats when boarding you should have done better research into what you were paying for in the first place.

It is interesting you bring the rail comparison because, correct me if I am wrong, both the Eurostar and the TGV in France offer different seats on their premium cabins: 2 x 1 versus 2 x 2. If the trains do it why not the planes? It is shocking Europeans pay up to 5x-10x the price of economy for the same legroom and seat width. Americans have higher standards and demand more for their money.

But that's exactly the thing. I don't know ANYONE that buys a business class intra Europe ticket. TBH, the product seems to primarily exist to offer a 'through' business class fare from say New York to London via AMS on KLM or New York to Amsterdam via London on BA. I see this as aircrew for a legacy European airline so we can obviously see with our personal devices who is connecting etc.

But back to your point re train vs plane absolutely, the trains do have a different hard product.

TBH as a former airline RM guy, I have always loved the European style of business class for the flexibility. Personally, the wide seat we get in the US is just slightly better than an economy plus seat with an empty middle to me.

But I always joked with my team about flexibility piece of the euro-biz. The fact that the LOPA can effectively be changed flight to flight theoretically. Obviously there are logistical scenarios that need to be played out, but was always an interesting idea.

Would it really be that bad if US converted to a blocked middle set model? Maybe a few more extra inches of legroom + the blocked middle seat + the same existing service standards (food, dedicated FA and bathroom?

Monday morning Frankfurt to London, 2/3 of the cabin length are marketed as business class. No way to offer this capacity with a dedicated hard product. The flexibility is brilliant for airlines and it is acceptable to customers given the mostly short flight times. And if business class was constantly sold out on the banking/consulting race tracks, that wouldn’t please customers either.

As someone who always checks at least 1 bag (often 2) when flying to Europe, I've found that upgrading to business class is sometimes close to the same price as flying economy and paying to check 2 bags. Add in lounge access and a pretty good in-flight meal, and it can be a great deal for the right price.

I flew on BA to Mykonos and it's perhaps not surprising for a very premium route but there were a full 12 rows of business class, going back to include both exit rows. Quite a revenue opportunity if they were collecting a substantial additional fare for those "premium" seats.

Flew last month on Tap in J Prg to Lis on A321LR.. completely different experience, slept for two hours. It was amazing flight

"European skies are controlled by the “big three” European airline groups — Air France-KLM, IAG, and Lufthansa Group" <-- On which metric are you basing this? If I take only the top 10 European airlines by passenger (from Wikipedia), then the "big three" transported about 39% of all passengers in 2024. Ryanair (#1) transported about 22%, Easyjet (#5) and Turkish Airlines (#6) about 10% each, WizzAir (#7) 7%, Aeroflot (#8) 6%. And the share for the "big three" gets even lower when you consider all European airlines.
I think that your perception is about 10 years old when Ryanair and Easyjet were much smaller. Back then the "big three" had more than 50% market share.

Could we just stop referring to Turkish as a European airline? It's a Middle East carrier, from a Middle Eastern country

1/ Turkey is not Europe
2/ Ben was referring to full-service carriers, so you can remove easyJet, WizzAir and Ryanair (which don't have business class, by the way)
3/ While you're right about Aeroflot, they aren't really competing outside of Russia and CIS, at the moment

You buy a C ticket in the US, you don't get priority security or lounge access. If your flight is less than two hours, you get no food, but whiskey.

You buy a euro C ticket, you get priority security and lounge access. Food is included on board as well, and your flight is usually less than two hours. The seat may be the same as economy, but the pitch in the front of the plane is a little better.

There is also more to innereuropean business class as opposed to domestic First in the USA. You do get lounge access and you normally have a dedicated security line.

And also on the normal 1-2 hour flights within Europe you get a proper meal.

What continent is Edirne located on? And if your middle east assignment is because Turkey is majority Muslim. what continent is Albania located on?

I really don't mind the blocked middle seat concept but the real problem is that the leg room isn't any better, some have really short pitch.

For example Lufthansa would have two totaly diffrent configurations on same route on diffrent days due to dynamic cabins. For example
Sunday 1800 FRA-MUC had 2 rows (8 seats) of Business Class while Monday 0900 FRA-MUC had 12 rows (48 seats) of Business on A321.

“Most flights in Europe are around an hour”. Simply not true, unless you define Europe to be London, France, Germany and Northern Italy (as you seem to do Ben)

But yes, most flights in Europe are around the 90-120 min mark, and few flights have durations longer than 3-3.5 hours (mostly the Canaries and perhaps Finland).

This is a lame debate, the European business class model meets European needs. Period. Europeans are slimmer and not obsessed over size. We would rather have lounge access and a proper meal rather than a bigger seat with granola bars and a lovely wait by the gate.

It's really ironic given many Europeans tend to be taller. I believe 19 of the world's 20 tallest countries are European.

Hence, I argue that physically the European market definitely needs proper business class seats.

Disclaimer: I am biased given I am 6.9 with wide shoulders. Those camping chairs are ridiculous. Really lousy politicians who did not command proper business seats like in African countries.

I buy business class tickets within Europe if they're well priced and/or I need the tier miles- that's maybe a third of the time.

Incorrect. We Europeans are taller and tallness correlates with width.

With 2.05m / 6.9 and with sportive statue those camping chairs are really uncomfortable. There are many Europeans who love to pay a premium for more comfortable seats.

Actually in my situation I avoid European business since a seat on the overwing exit is much more comfortable but still not wide enough. Ironically, you sometimes can buy a free middle seat but not on the overwing exit. Need to buy another ticket for an imaginary friend. At least I can claim a tax refund after the flight.

Why, unlike in Asia, you don’t see wide bodies and lie-flat seats on two-hour hops in the US?

I guess it’s a different market, and so is Europe...

I saw some comments that nobody uses EuroBiz or it is just for long haul connection. On HAM - ZRH (my regular route) planes are often full and have 5-8 rows of business class, on other routes especially out of FRA I have seen planes with 12 rows of J (speaking of great service..).

The demand is definitely there and the usage varies by route, one thing the EuroBiz concept is quite strong at.

I actually prefer the European business class to the US. The blocked middle seat gives me more personal space, the service/food/extras are better than the US first. The seats are typically comfortable enough (I’m 6’1”, 200lb; ymmv).

“Why is Europe the most disappointing region when it comes to business class hard product on shot haul flights?”

Ben, I think you mean to say short haul…

FYI, The Canaries are in Africa. So this has nothing to do with an article on European flights....

Busiest routes in Europe by seats with average flight time.

1
Rome – Madrid
~1.32M
~2h 35m
2
Lisbon – Madrid
~1.29M
~1h 20m
3
Copenhagen – Oslo
~1.27M
~1h 10m
4
Düsseldorf – Palma
~1.26M
~2h 15m
5
Dublin – London Heathrow
~1.22M
~1h 25m
6
Amsterdam – Barcelona
~1.21M
~2h 10m
7
Barcelona – Rome
~1.19M
~2h 15m
8
Stockholm – Copenhagen
~1.17M
~1h 10m
9
London Heathrow – Frankfurt
~1.12M
~1h 40m
10
London Heathrow – Paris CDG
~1.10M
~1h 15m

That is why in Europe it is better to travel by train, the time compared to an airplane is not much and they have real business class seats. Even companies like Trenitalia have sleeper seats in their executive services.

Meanwhile, back in Economy, seats are hard, seat pitch painful, the departure lounge by the gate crowded, security has long lines and staff apparently encouraged to yell at grannies.

This is the best free market competition offers?

I bought a LHR -> DUB business seat back in January. Between the bag fees, etc. was about the same as economy, and the extras were nice.

What I frankly do not understand is the American obsession with the seats. I fly LH all the time, averaging four flights every month. For two hours it is very comfortable. What Americans miss is that they offer real services in biz on flights below 2 1/2 hours. All I hear in U. S. are complaints about service. Not so on the flights I take.

OH how you swoon about burgers. I get served full course meals breakfast, lunch and dinner. And we always have lounge availability for intra-Europe flights.
Quite often I see seat configurations change based upon sales. That is smart business.

Ben, yes Turkish has real biz class. But who awants to fly to the Frozen North, via Turkeye, from western Europe?

When you choose your airline, you get what you choose. Not my experience, but I don't fly Ryanair.

When you choose your airline, you get what you choose. Not my experience, but I don't fly Ryanair.

I can second that. We we travel for month or two, I can take two bags, each 32 kilos. What can you do in economy. So, it's not all about dear.

It is not seats, it is personal space. Look the comment below being able to bring your own food into a plane but not your own space.

"The amount of Americans that tell me they 'flew First Class' on Virgin from the US to the UK don't get it when I say 'err Virgin Atlantic don't have First Class'."

To be fair, Virgin does market it as Upper Class, in an attempt to blur the lines between Business and First, and to suggest that their product is elevated above a typical business class (even though it isn't). So I can see how the confusion arises.

"Americans have higher standards and demand more for their money."

Not really - it's shocking to me that you can pay for so-called First Class and get no lounge access. On a short domestic flight, this matters, as you might spend as much time in the lounge as you would in the air.

For comparison, Australian domestic business class gets you both a somewhat bigger seat and lounge access.

The Istanbul airport is in Europe as is two thirds of it's population. I guess you failed geography

IST is in Europe so why shouldn't Turkish be referred to as a European airline?

Sh!t on that. There are are plenty of US domestic narrowbody flights in excess of 5hrs. If I want food, I'll eat it at home or in an airport lounge. I want space.

"You buy a C ticket in the US, you don't get priority security"

That's not always true. Some US airports do have non-preCheck express lanes for premium customers/

My beef with Intra Europe is BA who have the monopoly on LHR-LCA they use 320 or 321 for a flight that is in excess of 4 hours business on this route is a scandal. A route I use often
On LHR -ATH anything but BA always Aegean a wonderful product but still tthe standard seat configuration. On short haul less then 3 hourd dont pay the premium.

TBH if you are a regular flyer of LH you would know their business class 'meals' especially on the <2.5hr flights typically consist of (with no option apart from take it or leave it) a small cold plate with a bread roll and some kind of sweet.

This is half the reason I like connecting in Helsinki these days - Finnair offers proper business class on their A350s on LHR - HEL

Europeans are not taller than Americans, except for maybe the Dutch and the nordics. I am sorry that you feel cramped, but your situation would not necessarily be better in US business class, as the pitch is similar. At 2.05 you are not the norm, you are the exception, for good and for bad.

The Canary Islands while geographically in Africa are culturally and politically tied to Europe. They are part of Europe’s domestic aviation space and considered a short haul destination for all accounts. Why is there always a boomer willing to talk out of their ass*s? Good lord.

Crowded lounges and yelling security staff is not a problem unique to Europe.

There are two types of collusion: overt and tacit. Overt collusion is illegal but tacit collusion (TC) occurs in all sorts of industry every day. There's no need for firms to communicate with each other under TC; they just have to see what the other 'guys' are up to and decide not to rock the boat.

Also, bear in mind that Europe has plenty of 3-4 hour flights which don't have a proper business class, with HEL-TFS being one of the longest (approx 6 hours) using this faux business class.

As I commented for the other article, I think that there is real competition between many European cities that are serviced by a number of low cost carriers and I think many Europeans would be okay with taking the effecient train system. Consider that the difference in total time between a flight and a train may not be that much. I also agree with the comments that mentioned because of the short flight time the ground experience becomes more important. I think the US airlines make up for their system because their loyalty programs have become big business. Due to lounge over crowding they have not been able to offer lounge access for domestic business class but many people have access through a credit card anyway....

Twice I have had a plane swap at the last minute, and had an A350 from Munich to Frankfurt. Lie flat seat for a 40 minute flight!

I vastly prefer the empty middle over a huffy, chatty, obese American next to me in a slightly larger seat.

And even worse: it's always packed with people who got "status" from some points they got for buying female hygiene products at Walgreens or whatever. Status my ...s.

European biz is far superior to American fIrST kuh-lass. Even if for the seat'mates' alone.

@Duck Ling
The point about the "through" fares is why I am somewhat surprised it exists.
If flying saying BER-DFW I would always prefer to change in the US to get the American front cabin for the short section which I regard as enormously preferable.
I suppose the effect of the JVs prevents this competitive signal reaching management.

Can anybody remember when BA (and LH and AF?) switched from 2-2 up front to the empty seat approach?
ISTR it was in the 1970s.

It's the tiny legroom I find horrible after transferring from a proper business class seat.

Unsure why author thinks this is Big 3 de facto collusion. Around 30 percent of flights are the LCC.

Instead, I think it may be a demand issue.

Keep in mind that Europeans have other great options - rail and bus networks - so air's chief value add is speed rather than comfort. (Coach rail is a more comfortable seat than business class air, and rail also offers business class and first class products)

You’re describing a Stereotypical member of the Far Right currently in power, not all of us Americans are like that, just so you know.